117 réponses à ce sujet

[GothamKnight129]

Well, I do. Because when you make the choice of having Shepard disobey, and essentially defy, The Illusive Man, Shep basically says, "I won't dishonor the memories of the people who died here today by handing this space station over to you on a silver plater!" or something along those lines. And the Commander basically sounds like a Superman or a Captain America whenever he says that. 

If I could edit this game's dialogue I would make my Commander Shepard say, "It's too risky. There's too many variables involved. First of all, this whole station could be wired with an advanced security system, in the event of a theft. And I don't want a repeat of the IFF incident. Second of all, I have my reputation to consider. For better or worse, I burned a bridge by joining up with Cerberus, because at the time it made sense. We had a common enemy, and nobody believed us, so teaming up was a necessary evil. But now I want to salvage, my already shot to hell rep, and mend fences with the Alliance. And I can't do that if I hand the Collector Base over to you. And lastly, what good will come of it, if I actually give you what you want? Are you going to share this advanced technology with the rest of the galaxy? I don't think so. I know you too well, Illusive Man. I know you just going to horde it. Because I have a gut feeling and my gut feelings are never wrong!"

If you dislike my improvised dialogue and have some constructive criticism, I'll gladly listen to it but if you're going to flame me, just to spite me, all I can say is, "That's childish."

[Xilizhra]

The problem is that since there are so many reasons why someone might destroy the base, they just chose a generic one that sounded cinematic. The game's creators can't afford to be too specific.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Yeah there were several occasions I wish I could say something different. However because I choose to save the base I felt the dialogue on that occasion was good enough.

[Undertone]

Actually I think it's because there hardly is a logical reason to destroy the base (other then cool explosion cinematic ) so they tried to salvage the situation.



Of course I am open to criticism - name me at least one and I'll agree that destroying the station isn't completely retarded.

[GothamKnight129]

Xilizhra wrote...

The problem is that since there are so many reasons why someone might destroy the base, they just chose a generic one that sounded cinematic. The game's creators can't afford to be too specific.

It's understandable. I'm just telling you what kind of dialogue I would make my Shepard say, if I could edit the game that's all.

Modifié par GothamKnight129, 07 décembre 2010 - 10:42 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Undertone wrote...

Actually I think it's because there hardly is a logical reason to destroy the base (other then cool explosion cinematic ) so they tried to salvage the situation.

Of course I am open to criticism - name me at least one and I'll agree that destroying the station isn't completely retarded.

Pretty much this I think... (while I wouldn't say destroying the base is retarded, it would be exactly what Shepard was claiming to be against... fear-compromised.  

Example:  Doing it because you don't want to work with Cerberus to stop the Reapers?  TOO LATE.)

[Manic Sheep]

I think they were trying to be non specific. There are allot of reasons for destroying the base and allot of reasons for keeping it. Chances are no matter what reasoning they gave it would step on somebody’s toes. I do however wish there was some variance (more than one dialogue option when picking a decision) and that they had picked something that sounds a little less...well stupid.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:12 .

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Manic Sheep wrote...

I think their trying to be non specific. There are allot of reasons for destroying the base and allot of reasons for keeping it. Chances are no matter what reasoning they gave it would step on somebody’s toes. I do however wish there was some variance (more than one dialogue option when picking a decision) and that they had picked something that sounds a little less...well stupid.

well said crazy goat (I don't trust crazy animals)... but hopefully someone won't have a indecisive conflicting of thought issue when deciding... where as people already have a clear decision ahead of time... "TEAM, what are your thoughts on a decision...all in favor of voting on one.", type of ideal logic, vs "i haven't made up my mind... i'm making a irrational wild and crazy decision" type of stupidity. 

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:14 .

[Moondoggie]

The main ending dialogue that grates me is when Harbinger says "Human...You've changed nothing" it's like "Well why did i bother going through all this then?" i think it's Bioware admitting the plot was pointless and the game exists just to introduce new characters. I did like the last bit with TIM though and the multiple choice at the end. TIM gets the best speaches

[GothamKnight129]

[quote]Brandon lee Shepard wrote...

[/quote]while that would be ok but i would prefer that if you blew up the base you told the illusive man this "YOU KNOW I CANT DO THAT WHO KNOWS WHAT YOU COULD DO IF YOU HAD THE COLLECTOR TECKNOLEDGEY IM DESTROYING THIS BASE OTHERWISE OUR EFFORTS WOULD BE IN VAIN  SO GO F,CK YOUSELF"..or "HELL NO WHO KNOWS WHAT YOU WOULD DO WITH THIS TECHKNOLEDGY I REFUSE TO HAVE ANTHING ELSE TO DO WITH CERBURES I WOULD HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU BUT I OWE YOU FOR SAVING MY LIFE IF I EVER HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT YOU DOING ANY OF THE EXPERIMENTS YOU HAVE DONE IN THE PAST I WILL PERSONALLY HUNT YOU DOWN AND PUT A BULLET IN YOUR HEAD"
[/quote]


No offense but I think my improvised dialogue is much more eloquent and intelligible than yours. Unless this whole post was just a joke, because in that case all I can say is a very sarcastic, and deadpan, "Ha-Ha!" 

Modifié par GothamKnight129, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[FoxShadowblade]

Hmmm..Interesting concept, quite sound reason. I do like.



BUT, the game is to fast-paced to slow down for a monologue after his 'stirring' speech at the hold the line part(I got better chills from Kirrahe)

However, I do love the lines he gives the Illusive Man, I like the hero archetype of Paragon Shep.

"I won't let fear compromise who I am."

It feels like the writers put alot of time into it and I love the stuff of the S mission. Though in some other parts of the game, I wish there were more options. But seeing as how my xbox is broken at this moment, I cannot tell you which parts or options I would like, because my memory is crap.

[CaptainZaysh]

GothamKnight129 wrote...

If I could edit this game's dialogue I would make my Commander Shepard say, "It's too risky. There's too many variables involved. First of all, this whole station could be wired with an advanced security system, in the event of a theft. And I don't want a repeat of the IFF incident. Second of all, I have my reputation to consider. For better or worse, I burned a bridge by joining up with Cerberus, because at the time it made sense. We had a common enemy, and nobody believed us, so teaming up was a necessary evil. But now I want to salvage, my already shot to hell rep, and mend fences with the Alliance. And I can't do that if I hand the Collector Base over to you. And lastly, what good will come of it, if I actually give you what you want? Are you going to share this advanced technology with the rest of the galaxy? I don't think so. I know you too well, Illusive Man. I know you just going to horde it. Because I have a gut feeling and my gut feelings are never wrong!"

The first reason is I suppose a defensible one, although I'd say it's overcautious to the point of being dangerously negligent.  (Imagine if you'd applied that thinking to the derelict Reaper before Cerberus found the IFF: you'd never have completed the mission.)  Remember the one unforgivable failure in war is the failure to take risks.

I don't know about you but I would be f**king furious with a soldier who, on the eve of a hopeless war, destroyed a potentially game changing asset because he wanted to make absolutely sure no scientists died studying it.  Remember there are billions of lives at stake here.  What happened to the science team on the derelict Reaper sucked, but what would have happened if they hadn't made that sacrifice would have sucked a whole lot more.

The other two reasons are classic paragonism, that is elevating your own personal emotional needs over the very survival of the rest of the galaxy.  Look at how you're more concerned about your reputation (i.e. your emotional need to be admired) or how Cerberus shares out the advanced technology (i.e. your emotional need to control the behaviour of others) than the rather more crucial question of whether the advanced technology can actually advance the war effort.  Your whole rant might as well just say: "TIM, you won't use this asset in the way I think you should, so nyah nyah nyah I'm blowing it up."

To paraphrase Heinlein: paragonism is a shifty doctrine.  Whether it's releasing the rachni, shutting down the Overlord project, blowing up the advanced tech Collector base, curing the genophage, or splitting your forces at a vital moment in order to save three politicians, you guys always seem to be gambling with everybody else's life in order to satisfy your own egos...and claiming a halo for doing so.

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 08 décembre 2010 - 12:19 .

[GothamKnight129]

Brandon lee Shepard wrote...
It wasent a joke:( and its better than what you said :devil: im serious

Well, there's some R rated profanity in that paragraph, I know they swear in the Mass Effect series but I don't think Shepard ever said the word "F**ck" so, I don't know how you could ever imagine him saying it. And I don't think somebody has to necessarily say, "****" in order to get his or her point across. Unless, of course, you're the Angry Video Game Nerd and you're ranting about a crappy game. Or you're Jack and **** is just part of your volcabulary.

Also why were all of your letters capitalized? Do you expect Shepard to constantly shout his speech like Reb Brown would? 

Modifié par GothamKnight129, 08 décembre 2010 - 01:35 .

[ReluctantMind]

Destroying the base boils down to a simple cost-benefit analysis. If you believe the potential risks outweigh the potential benefits you destroy the base. The decision you make is right for your Shepard and you get to live with whatever the consequences may be in either case. I don't think you can justifiably call either decision correct or especially something like "retarded".

I had to add this edit to congratulate GothamKnight on a beautiful Reb Brown reference.  I suddenly pictured Shepard starring in Space Mutiny.

Modifié par ReluctantMind, 08 décembre 2010 - 12:59 .

[GothamKnight129]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

You guys always seem to be gambling with everybody else's life in order to satisfy your own egos...and claiming a halo for doing so.

Do you believe in the concept of flawed heroes? I try to be a flawed hero when I play the game since Marvel Comics has made an entire fortune on flawed heroes.

[Xilizhra]

The other two reasons are classic paragonism, that is elevating your own personal emotional needs over the very survival of the rest of the galaxy. Look at how you're more concerned about your reputation (i.e. your emotional need to be admired) or how Cerberus shares out the advanced technology (i.e. your emotional need to control the behaviour of others) than the rather more crucial question of whether the advanced technology can actually advance the war effort. Your whole rant might as well just say: "TIM, you won't use this asset in the way I think you should, so nyah nyah nyah I'm blowing it up."

Reputation is more than just an emotional need to be admired; it itself can be a vital component of the war effort, especially when it comes to bringing allies to your side. And sharing the technology can mean the difference between making allies of other races and having them be enemies, thinking Cerberus is going to pull a fast one while they don't believe in the Reaper threat themselves.



Also, if the science team had simply reported the existence of the derelict Reaper and then left, we wouldn't have lost anything.

[Dean_the_Young]

ReluctantMind wrote...

Destroying the base boils down to a simple cost-benefit analysis. If you believe the potential risks outweigh the potential benefits you destroy the base. The decision you make is right for your Shepard and you get to live with whatever the consequences may be in either case. I don't think you can justifiably call either decision correct or especially something like "retarded".

I had to add this edit to congratulate GothamKnight on a beautiful Reb Brown reference.  I suddenly pictured Shepard starring in Space Mutiny.

As every decision in the world is a cost-benefit analysis, no matter how flawed or erronious the decision making process behind it is, this is effectively a meaningless statement.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

The other two reasons are classic paragonism, that is elevating your own personal emotional needs over the very survival of the rest of the galaxy. Look at how you're more concerned about your reputation (i.e. your emotional need to be admired) or how Cerberus shares out the advanced technology (i.e. your emotional need to control the behaviour of others) than the rather more crucial question of whether the advanced technology can actually advance the war effort. Your whole rant might as well just say: "TIM, you won't use this asset in the way I think you should, so nyah nyah nyah I'm blowing it up."

Reputation is more than just an emotional need to be admired; it itself can be a vital component of the war effort, especially when it comes to bringing allies to your side. And sharing the technology can mean the difference between making allies of other races and having them be enemies, thinking Cerberus is going to pull a fast one while they don't believe in the Reaper threat themselves.

If you fear your reputation will suffer for working with Cerberus, you've already worked with Cerberus and given them aid on a number of occassions. The base decision does not shield you from charges of treason.

Denying that Cerberus doesn't believe in the Reapers when Cerberus is the only faction in the galaxy actively preparing and building ties to oppose the Reapers is such a massive double-think as to beg disbelief.

Also, if the science team had simply reported the existence of the derelict Reaper and then left, we wouldn't have lost anything.

The lives of colonists lost while diddlying around to get the IFF, when/if the Council (I presume you would want the Council to have it) ever extracted it and let you use it.

[Undertone]

See it always boils down to reputation or TIM is evil. How people prefer extinction to their reputation is completely illogical. Your reputation is more important then survival?



Provide me one logical argument why the base should be destroyed. Because there is none, hence why the stupid speech Shepard gives to TIM.

[Xilizhra]

If you fear your reputation will suffer for working with Cerberus, you've already worked with Cerberus and given them aid on a number of occassions. The base decision does not shield you from charges of treason.

I think I'm more likely to get charges of treason by blowing the thing up, considering that Cerberus is likely still part of the Alliance. I'm more worried here about the Council.

The lives of colonists lost while diddlying around to get the IFF, when/if the Council (I presume you would want the Council to have it) ever extracted it and let you use it.

Wait, what? How does the scientists dying in the Reaper actually help your progress?

See it always boils down to reputation or TIM is evil. How people prefer extinction to their reputation is completely illogical. Your reputation is more important then survival?

No, we believe that keeping the base is detrimental to our chances of survival, for various reasons. It's fine if you don't agree with the logic, but to say that none of it is based on any kind of logic is willful blindness.

[GothamKnight129]

Moondoggie wrote...

The main ending dialogue that grates me is when Harbinger says "Human...You've changed nothing" it's like "Well why did i bother going through all this then?"

I equlate that, "You've changed nothing," line to a conversation in Knights of the Old Republic 2. Where you're the Exile and you're talking to one of the former Jedi Coucil members on Nar Shada. I remember it, like it was yesterday the Exile/PC said, "Revan was redeemed. Surely that brought about some comfort." and what's his name said, "It brought no comfort at all."

[CaptainZaysh]

Xilizhra wrote...
Reputation is more than just an emotional need to be admired; it itself can be a vital component of the war effort, especially when it comes to bringing allies to your side.

Xili, don't you think it's a bit narcissistic to believe that strategic alliances between nation states will depend upon your personal reputation and referral network?

Is any nation state really going to make a calculation along the lines of, "well, going to war isn't in the interests of our people, but Shepard has such a good reputation we will do it anyway"?

(Or, conversely, "going to war is definitely in the interests of our people, but Shepard has a somewhat shady past so we will not do it"?)

Xilizhra wrote...
And sharing the technology can mean the difference between making allies of other races and having them be enemies, thinking Cerberus is going to pull a fast one while they don't believe in the Reaper threat themselves.

I don't buy it.  If we knew the turians had developed a superweapon in secret (and indeed they did, the thanix cannon, right?) we'd surely be more likely to ally with them than not to.

Xilizhra wrote...
Also, if the science team had simply reported the existence of the derelict Reaper and then left, we wouldn't have lost anything.

Except possibly the derelict Reaper when the batarians/STG/turian thanix recovery team/etc showed up to tow it away.  Only Cerberus could be relied upon to rip out the IFF and use it to send a strike team through the Omega 4 Relay.

[Luigitornado]

Too much.