Liara T'Soni Character Discussion Thread *possible ME3 spoilers*
Débuté par
jlb524
, déc. 08 2010 12:51
#2676
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:06
jlb524
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Her, Come back soon, Liara. has to be my fave from the DLC. So sad
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#2677
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:10
Aedan_Cousland
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Aedan_Cousland wrote...
Shepard died and was gone for two years, and death tends to end relationships. When he returns, neither of his LIs express an interest in rekindling an old spark. Ashley is a little more standoffish than Liara, but both express no interest in picking up where things left off and Shepard gets the cold shoulder. The relationship with either character is over in ME2. So long as the player does LotSB *after* romancing a ME2 squadmate, it shouldn't be considered cheating.
Maybe, but I still maintain that Shepard shows a distinct lack of respect and understanding toward both the relationship and love interest if another LI is romanced in ME2, moreso with Liara as the romance is never addressed or discussed at all. People also seem to miss the fact that, from Shepard's perspective, it has been a few weeks at most. As far as she is concerned, she was still in a loving relationship with said character a few days earlier. The two years that have elapsed in the interim period between ME1 and 2 can therefore not be used as viable justification of Shepard's actions.
Relationships endure difficult periods on a regular basis. There are complex, and deeply emotional reasons as to why Liara or Kaidan are unsure or anxious about continuing the relationship, and it would undermine their characters if they were to leap back into Shepard's arms as soon as she reappears. I maintain that, especially regarding Liara, Shepard should wait until the romance is discussed and addressed before taking a ME2 LI. Without doing so, a distinct lack of respect is shown toward the relationship. As I said, Liara is willing to tolerate Shepard's actions in ME2 as the relationship was enduring a difficult period, but that doesn't make it justifiable. Definitions of "cheating" are loose, but I think it applies to the Liara romance here in some form.
Even marriage vows state, "till death do us part," and Shepard and Liara were not married.
When Shepard reunites with Liara, she refuses to kiss and him and shakes her head no, indicating that their embrace was a mistake. While neither character discusses their previous relationship in depth, (a flaw in the way the scene was written) the scene does makes it fairly clear that Liara has other priorities, and given the grief she went through when Shepard died, she isn't too keen at that time on picking up where they left off, only to possibly lose Shepard and go through that grief again. By any definition, they are no longer a couple. As such it can hardly be considered cheating for either character to see someone else.
It may not seem to Shepard that it has been two years since he last saw Liara, but what should he do? He was rejected by Liara. Her reasons may have been complex and understandable, but it was a rejection none-the-less. I wouldn't consider the character a 'cheater' just because he or she doesn't wallow in self-pity or grief, and seeks comfort in someone else's arms. It also doesn't necessarily mean the character no longer has any feelings for Liara. It could be a rebound thing.
Additionally, I think it would be wrong to observe and examine the Ashley or Kaidan, or the Liara romances from identical perspectives. Both relationships are addressed differently in ME2, and not at all with Liara. One could argue that Shepard is "moving on" from Ashley or Kaidan, but I do not think the same criteria applies to the Liara romance.
Also it is far more likely and realistic that Ashley or Liara would have been in a relationship or two (or have taken lovers) during the period that Shepard was dead. 2 years is a long time.
Incorrect. We know nothing of Ashley or Kaidan's actions, but Liara has clearly not moved on in any way. I'm not sure how this is relevant, either.
Liara had been mourning Shepard for two years, and was quite obviously heartbroken, but that also doesn't necessarily prevent her from having seen other people during that two year period. It is quite possible she may have had failed attempts at moving on or might have sought temporary distractions from her grief. Or she may not have. People deal with the deaths of loved ones differently.
But if your ME1 LI did see other people during that 2 year period, it would just be further confirmation that the ME1 relationship was over, at least for the time being.
IMO it would be a bit unrealistic to have all the possible ME1 romances (Liara, Ashley, Kaiden) be chaste as nuns for two years, while they weep at the altar of Shepard. Since they are 3 different characters they should all deal with the grief in different ways.
#2678
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:12
TRISTAN WERBE
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wtf i mean honestly u knew he was gonna back i choose paragon the first time i did dlc and shes like **** u that was like 100 years ago hes like wtf no time for me
#2679
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:22
Tancho
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@Aeden: I don't know about the whole 'chaste as nuns' thing. I mean, sure, they could have moved on and seen someone else. But we don't have to over-sex everything. I think it's as equally likely to think that they saw other people as they didn't. With Kaiden and Ashley, for instance, I can totally see them moving on.
Liara, on the other hand, is who I have trouble seeing move on.
Listen, I've seen a lot of loved ones handle grief. If you focus on the anger or on vengeance, you're going to end up ignoring a lot of your own needs. Given the fact that Liara spent time saving Shepard's body, knew that Cerberus was reviving her and then spent time seeking revenge against the Shadow Broker...I lean more towards her not just abstaining - but being completely uninterested altogether. I mean, even when Shepard re-entered the room, thus providing some relief from her mourning, she barely reacted. I just think that shows that her focus is on vengeance and she is interested in little else.
Also, as we know from ME1, Liara had never given a Union much thought. She said that Shepard was the only one who made her think about it.
So, given Liara's circumstances and her already shy disposition, I feel that it's more likely that she hasn't been with anyone.
Liara, on the other hand, is who I have trouble seeing move on.
Listen, I've seen a lot of loved ones handle grief. If you focus on the anger or on vengeance, you're going to end up ignoring a lot of your own needs. Given the fact that Liara spent time saving Shepard's body, knew that Cerberus was reviving her and then spent time seeking revenge against the Shadow Broker...I lean more towards her not just abstaining - but being completely uninterested altogether. I mean, even when Shepard re-entered the room, thus providing some relief from her mourning, she barely reacted. I just think that shows that her focus is on vengeance and she is interested in little else.
Also, as we know from ME1, Liara had never given a Union much thought. She said that Shepard was the only one who made her think about it.
So, given Liara's circumstances and her already shy disposition, I feel that it's more likely that she hasn't been with anyone.
#2680
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:28
Sunnie
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TRISTAN WERBE wrote...
wtf i mean honestly u knew he was gonna back i choose paragon the first time i did dlc and shes like **** u that was like 100 years ago hes like wtf no time for me
Once more, please? This time in English?
#2681
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:30
TMA LIVE
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I'm specifically talking about the Genesis comic. Hale was awesome in ME1.
#2682
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:30
drwells123
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MillaShepard wrote...
Hale's voice? Sexy?? I can't imagine why you think it's odd for you to think this. I completely agree.
I feel like her tone of voice is extremely appropriate for each scene she's describing. I hereby dub her....
Voice Masta Hale!
I've been known to listen to "Jacob Gets the Priiiize" so I can hear her lines from the Jacob romance in a way that makes me laugh (rather than look around for a sharp object to stab into my temple).
I talked to a coworker today who mentioned he played FemShep at the recommendation of a friend. He was very impressed. The friend also told him to pick the Jacob romance, to which he unwittingly agreed. The whole hallway was wondering why I was laughing so hard.
#2683
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:32
Co1in
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TheMarshal wrote...
Suddenly I'm longing for a mod that puts everyone in old-timey western gear. Can you imagine Wrex in a cowboy hat and leather trenchcoat? Garrus with a gunslinger's belt and an eye patch? Tali in a train engineer's overalls? Liara in a big poofy dress?
...I don't know how long it will take, but I want to draw this now...In steampunk.
@drwells123 That's hilarious :happy:
Also femshep's voice is pretty sexy
Modifié par Co1in, 18 janvier 2011 - 02:49 .
#2684
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 02:37
jlb524
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Tancho wrote...
Listen, I've seen a lot of loved ones handle grief. If you focus on the anger or on vengeance, you're going to end up ignoring a lot of your own needs. Given the fact that Liara spent time saving Shepard's body, knew that Cerberus was reviving her and then spent time seeking revenge against the Shadow Broker...I lean more towards her not just abstaining - but being completely uninterested altogether. I mean, even when Shepard re-entered the room, thus providing some relief from her mourning, she barely reacted. I just think that shows that her focus is on vengeance and she is interested in little else.
Also, as we know from ME1, Liara had never given a Union much thought. She said that Shepard was the only one who made her think about it.
So, given Liara's circumstances and her already shy disposition, I feel that it's more likely that she hasn't been with anyone.
I agree with this 1000%
#2685
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:04
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Aedan_Cousland wrote...
Even marriage vows state, "till death do us part," and Shepard and Liara were not married.
When Shepard reunites with Liara, she refuses to kiss and him and shakes her head no, indicating that their embrace was a mistake. While neither character discusses their previous relationship in depth, (a flaw in the way the scene was written) the scene does makes it fairly clear that Liara has other priorities, and given the grief she went through when Shepard died, she isn't too keen at that time on picking up where they left off, only to possibly lose Shepard and go through that grief again. By any definition, they are no longer a couple. As such it can hardly be considered cheating for either character to see someone else.
This is all entirely subjective, however. I wouldn't say that Liara's obvious, justified and understandable discomfort and unease provides irrefutable proof that the relationship is currently nonexistent, especially when considering the fact that it is not addressed or discussed at all. It may be an error with the writing, but it is still an aspect of the narrative. As a result, I contest the claim this functions as proof of them no longer being a couple, especially when considering the fact that the relationship is not discussed at all. Romances endure difficult periods all the time, in which partners often spend a great deal of time away from each other and focus on other priorities. However, this does not excuse cheating at all. It merely indicates that trouble has befallen the relationship, which is something that both parties have to endure and overcome.
It may not seem to Shepard that it has been two years since he last saw Liara, but what should he do? He was rejected by Liara. Her reasons may have been complex and understandable, but it was a rejection none-the-less. I wouldn't consider the character a 'cheater' just because he or she doesn't wallow in self-pity or grief, and seeks comfort in someone else's arms. It also doesn't necessarily mean the character no longer has any feelings for Liara. It could be a rebound thing.
What should Shepard do? Treat the relationship with a modicum of respect, for a start. To utilise a relevant analogy, when a husband and wife are temporarily sundered after a fierce argument, and living in different abodes, one does not expect either party to begin seeing other people, and they would be considered wrong for doing so. No person has a divine right to be showered with affection and love at all times from their partner, and a relationship is built on a foundation of mutual trust and respect. A relationship encompasses a wide range of emotions and feelings, and not all of them are pleasant. When one endures a difficult period, during which a certain degree of emotional turmoil may ensue, it does not give any individual the right to seek happiness elsewhere. People have to work hard with relationships, and compromises have to be made. Just because Liara clearly feels uncomfortable and uneasy about the romance, whilst still obviously feeling something for Shepard when considering the fact that she was the one whom initiated the kiss, does not mean it's okay to cheat without first discussing the romance.
Liara had been mourning Shepard for two years, and was quite obviously heartbroken, but that also doesn't necessarily prevent her from having seen other people during that two year period. It is quite possible she may have had failed attempts at moving on or might have sought temporary distractions from her grief. Or she may not have. People deal with the deaths of loved ones differently.
This is false, and I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Liara's character. Had she seen other people, which is something that is OOC for her, she would have informed Shepard when reconciling the romance. Additionally, Liara will angrily admonish cheating Shepards when challenged about the relationship in LotSB. Had she seen other people whilst Shepard was dead, this would be incredibly hypocritical of her.
Additionally, Liara is not one to seek "temporary distractions." Romance is something that is deeply important to her, and not something that she takes lightly. She is in no way, shape or form libidinous, and does not seek sexual pleasure for no real reason. Considering the high regard in which she places her relationships, the fact that she does not mention that she attempted to move on, and the manner in which she has continued to love Shepard during the interim period between ME1 and 2, it can be concluded that there is almost no chance of her having taken another lover whilst Shepard was dead, as it was OOC for her. Had she done so, this would have been discussed, as she is an honest and forthright person. She's also not someone to seek a relationship elsewhere whilst still in love with Shepard, regardless of the fact that she is dead.
IMO it would be a bit unrealistic to have all the possible ME1 romances (Liara, Ashley, Kaiden) be chaste as nuns for two years, while they weep at the altar of Shepard. Since they are 3 different characters they should all deal with the grief in different ways.
Indeed. However, Liara did not move on, and continued to love Shepard for two years whilst she was gone. Ashley and Kaidan are irrelevant to this discussion, as they are indeed different characters that are distinct from Liara. Most importantly, though, is the fact that Liara did not move on.
#2686
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:11
jlb524
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I think it should be said that not all Shepard/Liara relationships were equal (from Shepard's POV) in ME1.
Some Shepards viewed it as a very deep and possibly even spiritual bond forming between the two.
Other Shepards viewed it as a fling or a relationship that they didn't see lasting long, but Liara was hot and 'willing' so what the hell? Why not?
Then there are possibly some in between this. My point is...this affects how the varying Shepards react to Liara in ME2. If you are willing to jump on another LI so quickly well...you probably aren't in the first camp I mentioned.
Some Shepards viewed it as a very deep and possibly even spiritual bond forming between the two.
Other Shepards viewed it as a fling or a relationship that they didn't see lasting long, but Liara was hot and 'willing' so what the hell? Why not?
Then there are possibly some in between this. My point is...this affects how the varying Shepards react to Liara in ME2. If you are willing to jump on another LI so quickly well...you probably aren't in the first camp I mentioned.
#2687
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:13
MillaShepard
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drwells123 wrote...
MillaShepard wrote...
Hale's voice? Sexy?? I can't imagine why you think it's odd for you to think this. I completely agree.
I feel like her tone of voice is extremely appropriate for each scene she's describing. I hereby dub her....
Voice Masta Hale!
I've been known to listen to "Jacob Gets the Priiiize" so I can hear her lines from the Jacob romance in a way that makes me laugh (rather than look around for a sharp object to stab into my temple).
I talked to a coworker today who mentioned he played FemShep at the recommendation of a friend. He was very impressed. The friend also told him to pick the Jacob romance, to which he unwittingly agreed. The whole hallway was wondering why I was laughing so hard.
hahaha! another unsuspecting victim of the priiiiize! lol
#2688
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:27
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Well, when I romanced Liara in Me1 for the first time back in 2007, I kind of saw it as not knowing where it was going to go, but wanted to give it a shot because it seemed like there was a lot of potential (I think. It's been 3 years). And I did like Liara, though the way I played it, it was kind of fake (I pressed the top right option for everything). I didn't pick dialogue choices I would have picked. Now I play it the way I want to respond, but before, my Shepard was whatever Pure Paragon Shepard was. I didn't allow myself to truly get personal with the character.
Then 2 years later, Liara was extremely different from what I remembered, and whatever love I had for her was long gone by then. I felt like we had a history, but the romance was long dead. However, after doing resent playthroughs, and being more personal with my Shepard, my feelings were completely different. I remember playing my Femshep through ME2, and feeling like I could move on, and they would be good romances, but they wouldn't beat Liara.
Then 2 years later, Liara was extremely different from what I remembered, and whatever love I had for her was long gone by then. I felt like we had a history, but the romance was long dead. However, after doing resent playthroughs, and being more personal with my Shepard, my feelings were completely different. I remember playing my Femshep through ME2, and feeling like I could move on, and they would be good romances, but they wouldn't beat Liara.
Modifié par TMA LIVE, 18 janvier 2011 - 03:31 .
#2689
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:35
xlavaina
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I personally like Liara's new hard personality. I feel like it better defines something in her that just needed to burst out and attack everything. I don't know how to describe it, but it seems like this need to happen. Besides, she's the new Shadow Broker now, she needs to be cold and calculating.
#2690
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:36
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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Ahem. I'll just leave this here...
Kelly wanted to ensure that Liara felt "welcome."
Kelly wanted to ensure that Liara felt "welcome."
#2691
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:37
jlb524
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So...Liara was seeing someone else then. XD
#2692
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:38
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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jlb524 wrote...
So...Liara was seeing someone else then. XD
I know...that's completely destroyed and undermined my argument.
#2693
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:39
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You know, I just realized something. With the ME2 LI's they were good romances. But you couldn't be personal with them. You had very little options, and they more of amounted to either ending the relationship, or motivating it forward. But you couldn't personalize how you wanted Shepard to be to them. With Liara, and the other ME1 LI's, you could play your Shepard to react to them for different reasons. You're Shepard could still be who you want him to be. With the Me2 Li's, there was just the one path, or no path.
#2694
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:46
Sunnie
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TMA LIVE wrote...
You know, I just realized something. With the ME2 LI's they were good romances. But you couldn't be personal with them. You had very little options, and they more of amounted to either ending the relationship, or motivating it forward. But you couldn't personalize how you wanted Shepard to be to them. With Liara, and the other ME1 LI's, you could play your Shepard to react to them for different reasons. You're Shepard could still be who you want him to be. With the Me2 Li's, there was just the one path, or no path.
That's called "needs another 10-12 months in Dev".
#2695
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:49
jlb524
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
jlb524 wrote...
So...Liara was seeing someone else then. XD
I know...that's completely destroyed and undermined my argument.
Not a bad choice, though.
#2696
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:49
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Ahem. I'll just leave this here...
Kelly wanted to ensure that Liara felt "welcome."
That dress is cute. Reminds me of something from Jetsons, or from the 50's or 60's.
#2697
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:51
MillaShepard
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Ahem. I'll just leave this here...
Kelly wanted to ensure that Liara felt "welcome."
Ya know.. I thought that Kelly was a little too friendly. I should've seen the shiny red flag go up when she started talking about her love for aliens..... and dogs.... and ya.
#2698
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:51
TheMarshal
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Ahem. I'll just leave this here...
Kelly wanted to ensure that Liara felt "welcome."
Shepard: Sorry, Kelly. Time to get blown out the airlock! *fwooosh!* Liara? You can stay... if you keep the dress...
#2699
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:53
Sunnie
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If I had to choose another romance for Liara other than my Shep, it will be Kelly 100%jlb524 wrote...
LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
jlb524 wrote...
So...Liara was seeing someone else then. XD
I know...that's completely destroyed and undermined my argument.
Not a bad choice, though.
#2700
Posté 18 janvier 2011 - 03:54
jbauck
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Hmm ... even with this photographic "evidence", I don't think Liara moved on. I'm sure they just fell asleep watching a movie during a Cerberus Slumber Party, and Kelly just cuddled up like that. Totally innocent. 
What you can't see is Feron and Miranda asleep amidst a pillow fort next to the bed, with Miranda's hair half-braided because Feron fell into a memory halfway through. Miranda finished painting his nails purple, though.
What you can't see is Feron and Miranda asleep amidst a pillow fort next to the bed, with Miranda's hair half-braided because Feron fell into a memory halfway through. Miranda finished painting his nails purple, though.
