8541 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMarshal]

jlb524 wrote...

Tamahome560 wrote...

For anyone who's interested:

I've just been looking through amazon.co.uk and came across someone selling a picture of Liara in a custom made frame. It is the same picture that Shepard has on the desk if he/she romanced her. The price is £29.99. I don't know how many there are left but originally they had 100 of them.

https://www.amazon.c...95458180&sr=8-3

I might buy one myself but I'm short on money these days..

Sweet!  Though, that's not the exact same pic on the desk, as that has added awful looking blush for some reason. 

Huh...  I was wondering where they got that picture, as it didn't look ANYTHING like any pic that could have been taken of her.

What was the pic that you used in that youtube video you posted?

[Robhuzz]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Regarding the kiss on Illium, my interpretation has always been that Liara, in the midst of her initial excitement and surprise at seeing Shepard alive and well infront of her, allows herself to lose her composure, and greets Shepard with a kiss.

However, during the kiss, her fears and anxieties boil to the surface, and the temporary reprieve from her suffering and grief ends as quickly as it began. During the kiss with Shepard, Liara realises that she may hate her, and that she is completely unaware of the fact that she handed her body over to Cerberus. This, obviously, is one of a multitude of reasons as to why Liara was somewhat distant and evasive on Illium, and explains her behaviour toward Shepard.

Her fears tormenting her one again, Liara ends the kiss, and turns away from Shepard with a sad and distant expression etched on her face. It's an extremely difficult moment for Liara, and she must feel horribly conflicted.

Sounds reasonable only Liara was aware of Shepard being alive before (s)he actually showed up on Illium. Seeing as Liara managed to pay for all fees before the Normandy SR-2 docked she might have been aware of Shepard's return as early as his/her first appearance on Omega. -- After that, the news talks about witnesses seeing Shepard alive there -- And she would've been fully aware of the fact Shepard would be seeking her out sooner or later. So.. she had ample time to.. mentally prepare herself for seeing Shepard again. And even after all that.. she still couldn't fully restrain herself and just had to kiss Shepard - Lovely.

Obviously she must feel conflicted there but I'm sure her hunt for the Shadow Broker and her loyalty to Feron has something to do with it as well. Liara still has a score to settle. As much as she'd like to return to her old life, by hooking up with Shepard again, she just can't because that would pretty much mean abandoning Feron and putting that part of her life behind her.

All in all Liara's feelings are obviously clouding her judgement there... but it's not just about her feelings for Shepard that's bothering her. (imo)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Regarding Liara during the Illium cameo.

Why does Liara act like she does if Shepard is angry. She snaps at him then immediatly afterwards apalogies or stops her self, claiming "Let's not argue". One of the times.

Does she know that she's acting cold and distant infront of Shepard? And Shepard might not know the whole thing.

Also this doesn't include Shepard getting all worked up and getting angry at Liara for giving the body.

My own interpretation is that Liara is actually frustrated at herself, and her fleeting anger is a manifestation of that frustration. I think Liara realises that she seems distant and evasive, and that it's upsetting and confusing her lover. Liara desperately wants to inform Shepard of everything that has occurred since her death, and her own role in Shepard's resurrection. However, her aforementioned fear prevents this from happening, and Liara is afraid that Shepard will hate her.

Knowing that she may be unintentionally hurting her lover, and yet feeling powerless to stop it, is something that could cause Liara to lose her composure during a particularly emotional exchange. She's frustrated at herself for acting in this manner, and reacts accordingly. She's not really angry with Shepard at all.

That's an interesting theory. Althrough I do think she might also be slightly frustated at Shepard.

[Robhuzz]

My own interpretation is that Liara is actually frustrated at herself, and her fleeting anger is a manifestation of that frustration. I think Liara realises that she seems distant and evasive, and that it's upsetting and confusing her lover. Liara desperately wants to inform Shepard of everything that has occurred since her death, and her own role in Shepard's resurrection. However, her aforementioned fear prevents this from happening, and Liara is afraid that Shepard will hate her.



Knowing that she may be unintentionally hurting her lover, and yet feeling powerless to stop it, is something that could cause Liara to lose her composure during a particularly emotional exchange. She's frustrated at herself for acting in this manner, and reacts accordingly. She's not really angry with Shepard at all.

Couldn't have said it better myself



@Lizardviking



Why do you feel Liara is frustrated at Shepard? That's one of the few feelings I'd say Liara is definately not experiencing at that point.

[TheMarshal]

Lizardviking wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Regarding Liara during the Illium cameo.

Why does Liara act like she does if Shepard is angry. She snaps at him then immediatly afterwards apalogies or stops her self, claiming "Let's not argue". One of the times.

Does she know that she's acting cold and distant infront of Shepard? And Shepard might not know the whole thing.

Also this doesn't include Shepard getting all worked up and getting angry at Liara for giving the body.

My own interpretation is that Liara is actually frustrated at herself, and her fleeting anger is a manifestation of that frustration. I think Liara realises that she seems distant and evasive, and that it's upsetting and confusing her lover. Liara desperately wants to inform Shepard of everything that has occurred since her death, and her own role in Shepard's resurrection. However, her aforementioned fear prevents this from happening, and Liara is afraid that Shepard will hate her.

Knowing that she may be unintentionally hurting her lover, and yet feeling powerless to stop it, is something that could cause Liara to lose her composure during a particularly emotional exchange. She's frustrated at herself for acting in this manner, and reacts accordingly. She's not really angry with Shepard at all.

That's an interesting theory. Althrough I do think she might also be slightly frustated at Shepard.

It's so interesting to hear everybody's take on these scenes!

[Robhuzz]

^True, who ever knew there were 1000 different ways to interpret that single scene. Even though I've only seen that scene ingame about 2 times XD



I'll be looking much more closely next time though, keeping in mind all that was said here.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

My own interpretation is that Liara is actually frustrated at herself, and her fleeting anger is a manifestation of that frustration. I think Liara realises that she seems distant and evasive, and that it's upsetting and confusing her lover. Liara desperately wants to inform Shepard of everything that has occurred since her death, and her own role in Shepard's resurrection. However, her aforementioned fear prevents this from happening, and Liara is afraid that Shepard will hate her.

Knowing that she may be unintentionally hurting her lover, and yet feeling powerless to stop it, is something that could cause Liara to lose her composure during a particularly emotional exchange. She's frustrated at herself for acting in this manner, and reacts accordingly. She's not really angry with Shepard at all.

Couldn't have said it better myself

@Lizardviking

Why do you feel Liara is frustrated at Shepard? That's one of the few feelings I'd say Liara is definately not experiencing at that point.

I guess it's because I could imagine that some Shepard might act angry at Illium due to expecting the Liara they knew only to be in shock at Liara's apperant 180 degree shift. Maybe frustated was the wrong word to pick but I could imagine something like this running through Liara's head.

Shepard. I lost Benezia, Feron, you. I gave you to Cerberus, and proceeded to hunt the shadow broker for two years. I couldn't remain exactly the same after, nobody could.

[Tancho]

I mean, irrational anger is definitely part of grief. So, for me, I can see Liara being angry at Shepard for waltzing into her office after being dead for two years. Kind of the same way Kaiden is angry with you when you see him. "I would have followed you!"



She's just spent two years mourning Shepard's death, and here she is, alive, walking into her office. It may have made her grief feel almost invalid or silly. If anything, I think she's just irrationally angry with Shepard (initially) due to grief.



But, I mean, later, I can see her being angry since Shep is like, 'Come with me!' Liara has had a rough two years and someone who was dead for that time wouldn't understand. Not that Liara did well to explain it, but I can understand her becoming frustrated with Shep's ignorance.

[TMA LIVE]

Tamahome560 wrote...

For anyone who's interested:

I've just been looking through amazon.co.uk and came across someone selling a picture of Liara in a custom made frame. It is the same picture that Shepard has on the desk if he/she romanced her. The price is £29.99. I don't know how many there are left but originally they had 100 of them.

https://www.amazon.c...95458180&sr=8-3

I might buy one myself but I'm short on money these days..

I wouldn't bother buying that. You could probably make one yourself for a cheaper price, and with a better picture.

[TheMarshal]

But Liara did know that Shepard was alive. She paid Shepard's docking fees and was excited enough to give that asari greeter the impression that she was looking forward to seeing Shepard.



I think you may be on to something, though, with the idea that Shepard asking Liara to drop everything and go back to the Normandy may upset her.

[Robhuzz]

Hmm I never thought about it that way. Shepard's behaviour could well have something to do with it. Kaidan/Ashley's reaction is proof of that. There's no really 'understanding' dialogue options there. Shepard doesn't seem to realize what Liara/Ashley/Kaidan etc went through in the two years (s)he was gone. To me, that would cause some tension, Shepard's lack of understanding.

Liara mourning about Shepard for over two years, then Shepard comes in and act like nothing's wrong. "I got better". That's all fine and all but (s)he completely ignores the fact that while it was an afternoon's nap for Shepard, for Liara it was two gruelling long years. Same for Ashley/Kaidan.

It would have made the entire situation a lot better if Shepard had just said something like: "I'm sorry I made you go through all that" Even though it wasn't Shepard's fault, an apology there would've made it better 

Modifié par Robhuzz, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:21 .

[TMA LIVE]

Robhuzz wrote...
@TMA LIVE

Are you serious? Staying loyal to Liara is rewarded by a wishfull look at Kaidan during your trip to the omega 4 relay? That's rather awfull (mind you, I've got nothing against Kaidan). Almost makes you want to cheat on Liara just to avoid that....

Well you're still romanced to Liara or Ash from what I'm told. It's just the picture is always Kaidan. However, instead of cheating, you could probably just dump them when they come to your cabin, so nothing physical ever happens. Maybe roleplay it as a moment of weakness I guess, and breaking it off before anything happens.

However, I'm just glad I own the "real" definitive version of ME2 (360 or PC), and not some mess. So I don't have to do anything, except enjoy Liara's picture.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:24 .

[TheMarshal]

The one thing that got me in my most recent playthrough was Ashley asking why Shepard never tried to contact any of them. All I could think was "God... Why didn't I try to contact any of them? Because The Illusive Man told me to move on??"



Hurt seems perfectly reasonable after that.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There's a difference between knowing someone is alive, and actually seeing them standing infront of you, alive and well.

Liara may have known that the Normandy had just docked on Illium, and that Shepard had disembarked. However, to see that individual standing before you, after two years of nonstop and painful mourning, is something else entirely. It's difficult.

That's why Liara reacts in that manner.

Not only that. That last time she saw Shepard was when he was nothing but a piece of meat being put together.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

Hmm I never thought about it that way. Shepard's behaviour could well have something to do with it. Kaidan/Ashley's reaction is proof of that. There's no really 'understanding' dialogue options there. Shepard doesn't seem to realize what Liara/Ashley/Kaidan etc went through in the two years (s)he was gone. To me, that would cause some tension, Shepard's lack of understanding.

Liara mourning about Shepard for over two years, then Shepard comes in and act like nothing's wrong. "I got better". That's all fine and all but (s)he completely ignores the fact that while it was an afternoon's nap for Shepard, for Liara it was two gruelling long years. Same for Ashley/Kaidan.

It would have made the entire situation a lot better if Shepard had just said something like: "I'm sorry I made you go through all that" Even though it wasn't Shepard's fault, an apology there would've made it better 

The part about Shepard not realising that other people beside himself have suffered as well is a big part on how I roleplay my canon Shepard during some of the scenes in ME2, Illium cameo being one of them.

I think the line paragon Shepard gives to Mordin during his LM explains it perfectly.

"It's easy to miss others when you're in the middle of your own soul-searching".

The quote might be used in a diffrent situation. But I think it can be used here as well. Sometimes when we having a bad time, we might miss or forget that other people might go through the same. And as a result we hurt them, even if we didn't mean it.

[TMA LIVE]

TheMarshal wrote...

The one thing that got me in my most recent playthrough was Ashley asking why Shepard never tried to contact any of them. All I could think was "God... Why didn't I try to contact any of them? Because The Illusive Man told me to move on??"

Hurt seems perfectly reasonable after that.

Yeah, same with Liara. TIM literally says she's on Illium, and I bet her business could be looked up on the internet. Yet, Shepard doesn't go after her because, I guess, he doesn't want to open old wounds all of a sudden.

[TheMarshal]

TMA LIVE wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

The one thing that got me in my most recent playthrough was Ashley asking why Shepard never tried to contact any of them. All I could think was "God... Why didn't I try to contact any of them? Because The Illusive Man told me to move on??"

Hurt seems perfectly reasonable after that.

Yeah, same with Liara. TIM literally says she's on Illium, and I bet her business could be looked up on the internet. Yet, Shepard doesn't go after her because, I guess, he doesn't want to open old wounds all of a sudden.

I RP it so that TIM doesn't say where she is, only that she's tangled up with the Shadow Broker.  It would make sense if Shepard was romancing Liara (which I'm sure Cerberus would have known about), that TIM would try to keep them apart.

...although he then sends Shepard to Illium for Thane and Samara...  hmm...  Must think this through a little more...

[TMA LIVE]

Lizardviking wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Hmm I never thought about it that way. Shepard's behaviour could well have something to do with it. Kaidan/Ashley's reaction is proof of that. There's no really 'understanding' dialogue options there. Shepard doesn't seem to realize what Liara/Ashley/Kaidan etc went through in the two years (s)he was gone. To me, that would cause some tension, Shepard's lack of understanding.

Liara mourning about Shepard for over two years, then Shepard comes in and act like nothing's wrong. "I got better". That's all fine and all but (s)he completely ignores the fact that while it was an afternoon's nap for Shepard, for Liara it was two gruelling long years. Same for Ashley/Kaidan.

It would have made the entire situation a lot better if Shepard had just said something like: "I'm sorry I made you go through all that" Even though it wasn't Shepard's fault, an apology there would've made it better 

The part about Shepard not realising that other people beside himself have suffered as well is a big part on how I roleplay my canon Shepard during some of the scenes in ME2, Illium cameo being one of them.

I think the line paragon Shepard gives to Mordin during his LM explains it perfectly.

"It's easy to miss others when you're in the middle of your own soul-searching".

The quote might be used in a diffrent situation. But I think it can be used here as well. Sometimes when we having a bad time, we might miss or forget that other people might go through the same. And as a result we hurt them, even if we didn't mean it.

Mines is more like what Shepard tells Jacob right here.



I hate that Jacob is the only person Shepard can tell that too. Apart of me want to just start his romance just for that line, and then tell him to just be friends after talking to him. Maybe play it as a moment of weakness, until Shepard realizes what she needs to do, tells Jacob to just be a friend, and waits for Liara. Maybe after the illium scene, Shepard is so down that she wants anything to fill the gap, but stops herself before it's too late. I don't know.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:46 .

[Robhuzz]

I never read the actual novels but I did read the plots so I know what's in them and I'm reasonably sure Cerberus approached Liara while looking for Shepard's body. So yeah, TIM was aware of Liara and Shepard being either very good friends or more than that.



I'm not quite sure how to RP all the way from Freedom's Progress - Horizon but! I think we shouldn't forget Shepard is a professional soldier, no matter how much he'd like to just forget about Cerberus and join Liara again, his soldier attitude will help him put duty in front of personal feelings.



So I just RP it like Shepard is really busy gathering his team for the mission - wanting to stop the collectors as soon as possible - but when he learns Liara is actually on Illium (Cerberus sources COULD be outdated so he wasn't sure she was there) then my Shepard's feelings get the better of him and he just has to seek her out.

[Tancho]

We should also consider the fact that Shepard is probably struggling with the timeline. I mean, she just woke up on an operating table and her more recent memories are of her suffocating in space.



Even though she's informed that two years have passed, she probably can't comprehend it. So, with that being said, there aren't really 'old wounds' for her. The others, however, have been silently mourning and suffering for two years, so they do have wounds. So, I can see the frustration between Liara and Shep, since Shep doesn't understand the situation that Liara has been in.

[Tancho]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Mines is more like what Shepard tells Jacob right here.



I hate that Jacob is the only person Shepard can tell that too. Apart of me want to just start his romance just for that line, and then tell him to just be friends after talking to him. Maybe play it as a moment of weakness, until Shepard realizes what she needs to do, tells Jacob to just be a friend, and waits for Liara. Maybe after the illium scene, Shepard is so down that she wants anything to fill the gap, but stops herself before it's too late. I don't know.

Are you kidding me? Jacob gets to hear that and Liara doesn't. AHHHH. 

[Robhuzz]

^Yes that's pretty much what I meant in my earlier post. Shepard not realising what Liara went through and therefore showing a lack in understanding. It's easy to understand Liara's possible frustrations there. As shown in LotSB on the balcony after you beat vasir (I'm sure everyone here can dream that part) but Liara says it's been two years. Shepard either doesn't care or still doesn't realize what Liara went though and so keeps pushing her to talk 'about us'. Although at that moment I'll admit I didn't care either. I just wanted Liara back XD

[TMA LIVE]

Robhuzz wrote...

^Yes that's pretty much what I meant in my earlier post. Shepard not realising what Liara went through and therefore showing a lack in understanding. It's easy to understand Liara's possible frustrations there. As shown in LotSB on the balcony after you beat vasir (I'm sure everyone here can dream that part) but Liara says it's been two years. Shepard either doesn't care or still doesn't realize what Liara went though and so keeps pushing her to talk 'about us'. Although at that moment I'll admit I didn't care either. I just wanted Liara back XD

I think it's because, honestly, you can't realize what Liara's been through. You could guess, but you just don't know what it was like. To you, it was 3 weeks from the last time you guys cuddled in bed. To her, it was 2 years ago without you in her life.