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[Fiery Phoenix]

As I said, Tancho, there's literally dozens of ways this could play out. We'll just have to wait and see. One thing is for certain, though: what happened in LOTSB won't be neglected as nothing worthy of attention.

[jlb524]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

As I said, Tancho, there's literally dozens of ways this could play out. We'll just have to wait and see. One thing is for certain, though: what happened in LOTSB won't be neglected as nothing worthy of attention.

True...that would be very very lame

[Tancho]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

As I said, Tancho, there's literally dozens of ways this could play out. We'll just have to wait and see. One thing is for certain, though: what happened in LOTSB won't be neglected as nothing worthy of attention.

Right, I guess what I'm saying is - who would know?

Liara only became the Shadow Broker because anyone who had ever seen him was dead. Therefore, by tricking everyone, no one knows. That's how she maintains power. 

So, I guess what I was saying is - why would the Council ask about it? How would they know the events of LotSB? 

It's not a challenge to what you said, I just find the idea of of some people knowing Liara is the new SB, other than Shep&crew, to be a giant plot hole. That's the whole point of the SB - he's unknowable. 

[Fiery Phoenix]

Two words: Vasir's murder.

[Tancho]

Obviously, the death of a Specter is going to need to be answered, but I have trouble seeing Shepard saying, "The jigs up! Liara's the Shadow Broker!"



All she would need to do is prove that Vasir bombed the building. It's less about the Shadow Broker and more about Vasir being crooked. Of course, I'm sure there may be multiple options, allowing you to completely spill the beans, but that seems a bit drastic.



And, I wasn't challenging anything you said, @Fiery Phoenix, I was just pointing out the fact that the LotSB, save the events on Illium, are probably unknown to the rest of the galaxy.



We don't hafta get feisty. :-3

[Fiery Phoenix]

LOL, I know. Just saying. I can already see the Council losing sleep over what happened to Vasir. Dang, why can't the next DLC or ME3 come out already?

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:40 .

[MillaShepard]

in the SB videos, the one where Anderson is talking to the guy from Cerberus, I have a thought. There's a million and a half different ways to interpret the video without further information, but what if the unknown Cerberus guy is actually an undercover Alliance soldier working for Anderson. I mean, Anderson wouldn't communicate with just anybody, especially someone with Cerberus (with the exception of Shepard) without a really good reason. And the SB thought it was worthy of keeping it archived. My point is... If he is an undercover for the Alliance, then the Council, or at least Anderson may already know lots of juicy Cerberus secrets.

[jlb524]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

LOL, I know. Just saying. I can already see the Council losing sleep over what happened to Vasir. Dang, why can't the next DLC or ME3 come out already?

Yeah, given the CDN updates, she did see to be one of their prized Spectres.

I agree...moar DLC pl0x!

[ADLegend21]

*Delurks*



RE: Vasir's murder.



Shepard: I killed Vasir because she called be a ****.

Liara: i tried ot stop her but...she's shepard, you don't stop Shepard.



Anderson: I believe her, I remember the last poor S.O.B to call her that. *shakes head*



*relurks*

[drwells123]

jlb524 wrote...

Yes, as long as her death is optional or I will cry and stuff!

Dear BioWare, I am returning this copy of ME3 as it is defective. The plot requires Liara to die. Please send me a new copy when the error has been fixed.

[jlb524]

drwells123 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yes, as long as her death is optional or I will cry and stuff!

Dear BioWare, I am returning this copy of ME3 as it is defective. The plot requires Liara to die. Please send me a new copy when the error has been fixed.

[GreatWhiteHorse]

If liara dies...I would seriously be enraged. And if they pull one of those cheap 'surprise!' endings where Shepard dies...I will curse the gods and bioware both for their blatant cop out. Look. To be fair I'm a guy who hates the happy ending. I think just about every movie ever made would be netter if the main character died at the end. That said: I've invested so much into this silly game that I need my happy ending with liara damn it!



Ps: the fan art thread gets no love. Please check it out and take a gander at the

piccy of everyones favorite asari I just finished. Look at the amazing art everyone over there works so hard one. There is some terrific stuff there

[drwells123]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

LOL, I know. Just saying. I can already see the Council losing sleep over what happened to Vasir. Dang, why can't the next DLC or ME3 come out already?

Just tell them Vasir faked her own death to become the new SB. And no, you have no idea where she is.

That said, it's too bad you can't paragon-interrupt her death rant and slap some medi-gel on her. The next day Liara can just call her up on the voice-changer and tell her to forget it, T'Soni's dead. Someone who can take over a dozen headshots from a Widow after losing a game of "skycar chicken" and bleeding all over half of Ilium would have been useful in ME3.

Modifié par drwells123, 21 janvier 2011 - 06:31 .

[drwells123]

GreatWhiteHorse wrote...

If liara dies...I would seriously be enraged. And if they pull one of those cheap 'surprise!' endings where Shepard dies...I will curse the gods and bioware both for their blatant cop out. Look. To be fair I'm a guy who hates the happy ending. I think just about every movie ever made would be netter if the main character died at the end. That said: I've invested so much into this silly game that I need my happy ending with liara damn it!

Ps: the fan art thread gets no love. Please check it out and take a gander at the
piccy of everyones favorite asari I just finished. Look at the amazing art everyone over there works so hard one. There is some terrific stuff there

I'd be astounded if they forced Shepard's death. OTOH, saving her might come with an unknowable price a la DA.

They could also do it like Max Payne or Painkiller, where you have to play the Hardcore difficulty setting to unlock Insanity, then play Insanity to save everyone. But DA's way of working it into the story is much better.

[Fiery Phoenix]

drwells123 wrote...

Just tell them Vasir faked her own death to become the new SB. And no, you have no idea where she is.

Indeed, but hey, Illium IS a public place. There are witnesses.

That said, it's too bad you can't paragon-interrupt her death rant and slap some medi-gel on her. The next day Liara can just call her up on the voice-changer and tell her to forget it, T'Soni's dead. Someone who can take over a dozen headshots from a Widow after crashing her car and bleeding all over half of Ilium would have been useful in ME3.

I have to agree that Vasir's death was unfortunate. Her character had so much potential. Part of me wishes she had never died. But it's understandable how she had to be taken out, I guess.

[drwells123]

http://www.fanfictio...6431630/17/Duet

[GuardianAngel470]

Man, I just read the whole OP and found one word particularly funny.



"Scrog"



Man am I glad we haven't seen that guy in a while...



On topic, what do you all think should be done about TIM knowing exactly where the SB's base is AND who the SB is?



Do you think anything should be done? I see it as a security leak that must be plugged. Liara is too important to allow TIM any knowledge whatsoever of what her new role is.

[drwells123]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

On topic, what do you all think should be done about TIM knowing exactly where the SB's base is AND who the SB is?

Do you think anything should be done? I see it as a security leak that must be plugged. Liara is too important to allow TIM any knowledge whatsoever of what her new role is.

I'd move that ship right away. Plenty of other planets with crappy atmospheres for it to hide in.

I don't see how to prevent TIM from finding out what happened, given that (a) the SB network is still running and ( Liara seems to be playing hooky. If I tell him Liara was killed on the mission, he'll assume the SB is still hostile and might make more efforts to take "him" out. OTOH, if he knows Liara is the SB, he also knows that (a) she can be expected to cooperate with him somewhat, ( she's more dangerous than the old SB, and © if he messes with her, Shepard will find and kill him, period.

I'd also try to recruit anyone who can be expected to defend her to the death for guard duty (Aethyta, the VS if they can be tempted away from the Alliance with a big enough pile of cash, Samara if she can be convinced that she's protecting an important source of order and justice in the galaxy, etc). Hell, put Kasumi there - she'd make Liara a great assistant. And Zaeed's looking for a safe place to retire anyway.

Modifié par drwells123, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:34 .

[AlexMBrennan]

A better way might be to install another quantum relay, linking the Normandy and the SB ship (if they're too expensive then break into TIM's base and steal his relay). If anyone was to board the SB ship again they'd just find it empty (but heavily defended, of course). The Normandy even has a spare office for Liara.

Actually, it is kinda silly that the original SB didn't do this. Current technology does not allow untraceable communication - radio transmissions give away the position of the sender, internet traffic can be traced (using traffic analysis if nothing else works), but an entangled quantum relay would solve that problem. The SB could just have rented a small flat somewhere and managed his spy network from home - and since there'd be nothing linking him to the SB he'd be perfectly safe.

As for TIM, I'd imagine that five rounds rapid should do the trick.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[GuardianAngel470]

drwells123 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

On topic, what do you all think should be done about TIM knowing exactly where the SB's base is AND who the SB is?

Do you think anything should be done? I see it as a security leak that must be plugged. Liara is too important to allow TIM any knowledge whatsoever of what her new role is.

I'd move that ship right away. Plenty of other planets with crappy atmospheres for it to hide in.

I don't see how to prevent TIM from finding out what happened, given that (a) the SB network is still running and ( Liara seems to be playing hooky. If I tell him Liara was killed on the mission, he'll assume the SB is still hostile and might make more efforts to take "him" out. OTOH, if he knows Liara is the SB, he also knows that (a) she can be expected to cooperate with him somewhat, ( she's more dangerous than the old SB, and © if he messes with her, Shepard will find and kill him, period.

I'd also try to recruit anyone who can be expected to defend her to the death for guard duty (Aethyta, the VS if they can be tempted away from the Alliance with a big enough pile of cash, Samara if she can be convinced that she's protecting an important source of order and justice in the galaxy, etc). Hell, put Kasumi there - she'd make Liara a great assistant. And Zaeed's looking for a safe place to retire anyway.

In the Mission Accomplished screen after LotSB it is pretty much stated that TIM knows who she is and TIM isn't exactly averse to going against Shepard (as evidenced if you destroy the CB with Miranda in the squad).

If for some reason he decided that he wanted to be SB, which he might very well do, then Liara is at risk.

Also, based on what we saw of the ship itself it seems to me as if it were designed for that planet. It seems like it runs on the lightning strikes almost when you go inside for a brief bit and see all those plates moving up and down. If that's true, then I don't think moving the ship is a great option.

But then making a ship that could only orbit one planet would be bad security planning and if the SB was good at anything it was security.

As an aside, don't you think it's possible that other people knew what the SB looked like? I mean, if he ever had a person visit his Lair, something like a top lieutenant, then isn't it possible that there is a person out there in the Galaxy that will know that Liara isn't the real SB?

[AlexMBrennan]

isn't it possible that there is a person out there in the Galaxy that will know that Liara isn't the real SB?

That's actually quite likely. Someone is bound to notice that "routine system maintenance" coincided with a large number of mooks "accidentally brutally cutting their heads off while combing their hair" and, possibly, a change in the Broker's personality (if Liara doesn't start shooting kittens left and right).
In any case this probably wasn't the first time, and is probably considered an occupational hazard for evil overlords et al.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 21 janvier 2011 - 10:58 .

[Robhuzz]

Tancho wrote...

Obviously, the death of a Specter is going to need to be answered, but I have trouble seeing Shepard saying, "The jigs up! Liara's the Shadow Broker!"

All she would need to do is prove that Vasir bombed the building. It's less about the Shadow Broker and more about Vasir being crooked. Of course, I'm sure there may be multiple options, allowing you to completely spill the beans, but that seems a bit drastic.

And, I wasn't challenging anything you said, @Fiery Phoenix, I was just pointing out the fact that the LotSB, save the events on Illium, are probably unknown to the rest of the galaxy.

We don't hafta get feisty. :-3

The council doesn't really care about the methods Spectres employ, that's why they're above the law. I don't see the council condoning Shepard's actions because Vasir was 'simply doing her job' in the council's eyes. No, if it comes to a confrontation between the council and Shepard about Vasir's death, we need a renegade option adressing the Turian Councillor:

"Ahh yes Tela Vasir, the Council Spectre alledgedly killed by...me. I have dismissed that claim"

Again, the Council will most likely take Vasir's side so it's best to just deny everything. Shepard is definately not going to involve Liara in this, no matter what the council says.
I agree to an earlier (or was it later) post about Vasir still being alive. She would've been a usefull ally, but so would Nihlus or for that matter, any other spectre...

[drwells123]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

In the Mission Accomplished screen after LotSB it is pretty much stated that TIM knows who she is and TIM isn't exactly averse to going against Shepard (as evidenced if you destroy the CB with Miranda in the squad).

If for some reason he decided that he wanted to be SB, which he might very well do, then Liara is at risk.

Also, based on what we saw of the ship itself it seems to me as if it were designed for that planet. It seems like it runs on the lightning strikes almost when you go inside for a brief bit and see all those plates moving up and down. If that's true, then I don't think moving the ship is a great option.

But then making a ship that could only orbit one planet would be bad security planning and if the SB was good at anything it was security.

As an aside, don't you think it's possible that other people knew what the SB looked like? I mean, if he ever had a person visit his Lair, something like a top lieutenant, then isn't it possible that there is a person out there in the Galaxy that will know that Liara isn't the real SB?

I know they had to make this fit in with the format of the other missions, but the last thing I would have done was file a goddamn mission report saying "Liara is the new SB, and by the way, we're an item again, just in case you need a handle to yank me by." Especially if I blew up the Collector base. Assuming the crew (including EDI) is now loyal to me personally, I'd tell them to keep it under their hat, and tell EDI to erase her records of the whole thing.

This is perhaps why Vasir had to die - she sees more than enough to add 2 and 2 afterward. OTOH, assuming she isn't simply pure evil, it should be possible to convince her to keep her mouth shut since she still gets intel from the SB, which is supposedly the only reason she was loyal to him to begin with. Besides, what's she going to do if she doesn't know where Liara is? She didn't seem to have time to look at Sekat's data, which presumably required further analsys anyway.

For that matter, who cares if the SB is replaced as long as he keeps providing the services he gets paid for? No one cared when the original SB was replaced, it seems.

Conversely, what's anyone going to do merely by knowing Liara's identity? She has no known family left, and most of her friends are people who get shot at all the time anyway.

Also, the Retribution novel (set after ME2) suggests that Cerberus is crippled in a multi-pronged Alliance attack. If that's canon, Liara might now be considerably more powerful than TIM, and he might be too busy rebuilding Cerberus for several years to want to take her on.

Just random thoughts on the subject.

Modifié par drwells123, 21 janvier 2011 - 11:23 .

[drwells123]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
That's actually quite likely. Someone is bound to notice that "routine system maintenance" coincided with a large number of mooks "accidentally brutally cutting their heads off while combing their hair" and, possibly, a change in the Broker's personality (if Liara doesn't start shooting kittens left and right).
In any case this probably wasn't the first time, and is probably considered an occupational hazard for evil overlords et al.

Yeah, if some of the SB's agents really love their jobs (as opposed to just working for credits), Liara might have to allow some nasty projects to go forward if she doesn't want a revolt.

As for the dead mooks, they might operate in a cell structure like Cerberus, reporting directly to the SB, in which case the surviving mooks might be unaware of the massacre. Maybe Liara can pin their deaths on each other, or Vasir, or claim she was doing a shakeout and the dead ones flunked

Hopefully the records contain some indication of how SB #2 handled this when he murdered SB #1.