8541 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Keep in mind that Shiala, a known agent of the enemy, had just convinced Shepard to do the asari mind melt, giving her access to all of Shepard's knowledge, plans, secret codes...

Execpt that she was giving information not taking anything. I would think Shepard would be able to tell if Shiala tried to some sort of mind-trick.
She also had no problem co-operating. And it's easy to tell she is somewhat sincer about the whole thing.

[AlexMBrennan]

Feros might be the time Shepard experienced the mind melt; I don't think it would be too difficult to distract her with some fireworks (like, say, the Cipher) whilst taking a peak at Shepard's plans.



Shiala knew too much for Shepard to just leave her on Feros (because she said she'd be good) regardless of whether she had voluntarily supported Saren or been indoctrinated by Sovereign to some extend. The reasonable choice would have been to detain her until the Saren business was sorted out but BW is too fond of contrived "big choices" to allow that.



However, Shepard might decide that taking prisons is not feasible at that point without necessarily being a complete omnicidal maniac.

[TheMarshal]

I'm not convinced that the mind meld is an instantaneous sharing of ALL knowledge. I mean, I'm in my own mind and I can't recall everything that I know all at once. The idea that someone else can come in and pick and choose whatever they want in an instant seems pretty far-fetched.

[Sentox6]

Ericzio wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Keep in mind that Shiala, a known agent of the enemy, had just convinced Shepard to do the asari mind melt, giving her access to all of Shepard's knowledge, plans, secret codes...

She was never with the "enemy" she was with Benezia who was being mind controlled, Shiala would do anything for Benezia, she was her mentor so she greatly respected her. Benezia tried to save saren but could not, neither could Shiala. Then she was enslaved with the Thorian against her own free will. Once the thorian was killed she was not controlled by anyone, she is back to "normal" i see no reason to kill someone who didn't technically do something wrong.

Shepard lacks the meta-perspective that the gamer has.

In the narrative context all Shepard really has to go on is Shiala's word. AlexMBrennan's point is quite valid. Most people probably play Shepard without ever separating the character's perspective from their own, which is fine, but it changes the nature of some the decisions quite a bit.

Modifié par Sentox6, 01 février 2011 - 10:56 .

[Master Shiori]

Sentox6 wrote...

Ericzio wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Keep in mind that Shiala, a known agent of the enemy, had just convinced Shepard to do the asari mind melt, giving her access to all of Shepard's knowledge, plans, secret codes...

She was never with the "enemy" she was with Benezia who was being mind controlled, Shiala would do anything for Benezia, she was her mentor so she greatly respected her. Benezia tried to save saren but could not, neither could Shiala. Then she was enslaved with the Thorian against her own free will. Once the thorian was killed she was not controlled by anyone, she is back to "normal" i see no reason to kill someone who didn't technically do something wrong.

Shepard lacks the meta-perspective that the gamer has.

In the narrative context all Shepard really has to go on is Shiala's word. AlexMBrennan's point is quite valid. Most people probably play Shepard without ever separating the character's perspective from their own, which is fine, but it changes the nature of some the decisions quite a bit.

That is probably true. However, Shiala does help Shepard out by giving him the knowledge Thorian shared with Saren. She doesn't lie about not having it or tries to use it as a bargaining chip for her life. She gives it to the player freely and thus places her life into Shepards hand. 
Killing her after that, purely because she was one of Benezia's followers, is a rather spiteful, if not evil, thing to do.

[Sentox6]

Master Shiori wrote...
That is probably true. However, Shiala does help Shepard out by giving him the knowledge Thorian shared with Saren. She doesn't lie about not having it or tries to use it as a bargaining chip for her life. She gives it to the player freely and thus places her life into Shepards hand. 
Killing her after that, purely because she was one of Benezia's followers, is a rather spiteful, if not evil, thing to do.

I dunno. I think you can still make the argument that Shepard can't guarantee she won't be a future threat, and furthermore doesn't know how much information she may have gleaned during the mind-meld.

She might just be self-serving, and making a calculated gamble that throwing herself upon Shepard's mercy is the best course of action. Consider Elnora from ME2, for example.

For the record, I spare her unless I'm doing a token renegade playthrough. I just wouldn't call executing her spiteful. Ruthless, yes. But it is the 'safest' course of action.

[drwells123]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Shiala knew too much for Shepard to just leave her on Feros (because she said she'd be good) regardless of whether she had voluntarily supported Saren or been indoctrinated by Sovereign to some extend. The reasonable choice would have been to detain her until the Saren business was sorted out but BW is too fond of contrived "big choices" to allow that.

Yes, if she's willing to calmly kneel down and let you shoot her in the back of the head, she'd surely agree to being put in your brig and dropped off at some Alliance detainment facility.  I also wish you could have Mordin take a look at her in ME2 to make sure she isn't going to turn into another Thorian or have some other misfortune in ME3.

I'm glad to see LET is planning to do some writing with her.

[Tancho]

I saw that someone mentioned that Shiala was never the enemy. I definitely agree with this.



Furthermore, if Shepard confronts Benezia prior to Feros, Shepard would understand that about Shiala. I mean, you witness Benezia fighting the control of the indoctrination.



So when you meet Shiala, unless your doubting that she was actually Benezia's servant, it's not unreasonable to think that Shepard understood what happened. She's already watched one life destroyed by indoctrination, and as a result, a daughter lost a mother. If you play a more compassionate Shepard, it's reasonable to see her having mercy.

[ScorpSt]

Tancho wrote...

I saw that someone mentioned that Shiala was never the enemy. I definitely agree with this.

Furthermore, if Shepard confronts Benezia prior to Feros, Shepard would understand that about Shiala. I mean, you witness Benezia fighting the control of the indoctrination.

So when you meet Shiala, unless your doubting that she was actually Benezia's servant, it's not unreasonable to think that Shepard understood what happened. She's already watched one life destroyed by indoctrination, and as a result, a daughter lost a mother. If you play a more compassionate Shepard, it's reasonable to see her having mercy.

That assumes that you go to Noveria before Feros. If you go to Feros first (and you might, considering you're told it's under Geth attack) all you have to go on is Shiala's say-so. True, she was abandoned by Saren, but you don't know if she's just trying to save her own skin. On the other hand, a Shepard who's seen what Benezia's been through would realize Shiala was likely not in control of her own actions while fighting Saren.

Basically, I can see the reason a Shepard who went to Feros first would've killed Shiala. They might even feel bad about it once they find out the truth.

[Durontan]

ScorpSt wrote...

Tancho wrote...

I saw that someone mentioned that Shiala was never the enemy. I definitely agree with this.

Furthermore, if Shepard confronts Benezia prior to Feros, Shepard would understand that about Shiala. I mean, you witness Benezia fighting the control of the indoctrination.

So when you meet Shiala, unless your doubting that she was actually Benezia's servant, it's not unreasonable to think that Shepard understood what happened. She's already watched one life destroyed by indoctrination, and as a result, a daughter lost a mother. If you play a more compassionate Shepard, it's reasonable to see her having mercy.

That assumes that you go to Noveria before Feros. If you go to Feros first (and you might, considering you're told it's under Geth attack) all you have to go on is Shiala's say-so. True, she was abandoned by Saren, but you don't know if she's just trying to save her own skin. On the other hand, a Shepard who's seen what Benezia's been through would realize Shiala was likely not in control of her own actions while fighting Saren.

Basically, I can see the reason a Shepard who went to Feros first would've killed Shiala. They might even feel bad about it once they find out the truth.

I myself went to Feros first but I don't know... something about how Shiala spoke felt right so I believed her. I did make a note of returning to Feros and killing her if when I confront Benezia I found out she was lying to me. Glad that my Para Shep didn't have to kill her.

[Sinapus]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yeah, so I think Benezia would try to 'butt in' like all parents would, but ultimately would leave Liara alone after receiving a few nasty looks

...

Exactly!

I'm now imagining Benezia as a meddlesome old woman who thinks that she knows what's best for her daughter, and constantly "advises" her accordingly.

I'm imagining Marina Sirtis outtakes where she wonders where this sense of deja vu came from.

[Thaipan]

 Liara's portrait <3

Modifié par Thaipan, 02 février 2011 - 10:40 .

[bjdbwea]

That's a very nice picture. That would certainly also have looked great in the frame in Shepard's cabin.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 02 février 2011 - 11:04 .

[kumquats]

Sinapus wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yeah, so I think Benezia would try to 'butt in' like all parents would, but ultimately would leave Liara alone after receiving a few nasty looks

...

Exactly!

I'm now imagining Benezia as a meddlesome old woman who thinks that she knows what's best for her daughter, and constantly "advises" her accordingly.

I'm imagining Marina Sirtis outtakes where she wonders where this sense of deja vu came from.

I would pay to see this.

[TheMarshal]

Has anyone here done Noveria prior to Feros? If so, did it change the dialogue with Shiala at all?

[Xilizhra]

Yes, and so far as I can tell, no.

I always do Noveria before Feros. It feels more dramatic to not know about indoctrination before fighting Benezia, and it also makes trusting Shiala feel a bit more plausible.

[jlb524]

I usually do Feros first, but with my current Shepard, I'm doing Noveria first so I will see.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Something I wondered about recently.

So there's dialog in ME2 that suggest TIM had leaked false information regarding Shepard to the alliance (presumebly when the Lazarus project was bound to be a succses), suggesting that Shepard never died and used the destruction of the SR-1 as his way to get under the radar and fully join Cerberus.

Now. Would it be likely that alliance might have questioned Liara at some point to see if she knew anything about Shepard's current status or see if she possibly have kept contact with Shepard during the last two years?

[TheMarshal]

Lizardviking wrote...

Something I wondered about recently.

So there's dialog in ME2 that suggest TIM had leaked false information regarding Shepard to the alliance (presumebly when the Lazarus project was bound to be a succses), suggesting that Shepard never died and used the destruction of the SR-1 as his way to get under the radar and fully join Cerberus.

Now. Would it be likely that alliance might have questioned Liara at some point to see if she knew anything about Shepard's current status or see if she possibly have kept contact with Shepard during the last two years?

I hadn't heard that!  I remember it being leaked that Shepard was working with Cerberus, but not the whole faked-death part.  Pretty interesting...

As for the Alliance contacting Liara, would she have been easy to find if she was on Illium?  Granted she was well-known in Nos Astra, but Illium is way out in the Terminus systems, right?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TheMarshal wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Something I wondered about recently.

So there's dialog in ME2 that suggest TIM had leaked false information regarding Shepard to the alliance (presumebly when the Lazarus project was bound to be a succses), suggesting that Shepard never died and used the destruction of the SR-1 as his way to get under the radar and fully join Cerberus.

Now. Would it be likely that alliance might have questioned Liara at some point to see if she knew anything about Shepard's current status or see if she possibly have kept contact with Shepard during the last two years?

I hadn't heard that!  I remember it being leaked that Shepard was working with Cerberus, but not the whole faked-death part.  Pretty interesting...

As for the Alliance contacting Liara, would she have been easy to find if she was on Illium?  Granted she was well-known in Nos Astra, but Illium is way out in the Terminus systems, right?

Dialog with Vasir and the council suggest that most believed Shepard faked his own death.

I also have a feeling that she was easy enough to find. Even if she was out in the terminus system. Illium is an important planet, not that far-fetched to believe the alliance have some connection there.

[RolandX9]

TheMarshal wrote...

As for the Alliance contacting Liara, would she have been easy to find if she was on Illium?  Granted she was well-known in Nos Astra, but Illium is way out in the Terminus systems, right?

Her info broker business is public. She has a sweet office. Presumably, this means she's not hard to find (extranet site, advertising, etc). It's implausible in the extreme that the Council's agents would have any trouble finding her if they cared. If they didn't question her, it's probably more a "she's not human, so she can't have any ties to Cerberus; if we want her to look into Cerberus we can just hire her" thing.

This really bugs me about Shepard's freedom (and lack thereof) in ME2. How hard would it have been to run extranet searches for his friends? The rest of them make sense -- Garrus is doing his superhero thing on Omega so he's off the grid, s/he's already met Tali, TIM told the truth about Wrex so dude's kinda busy saving his species, and the VS is working undercover (even Anderson isn't talking). Liara? She's running one of the biggest information businesses on a world that lives on information trade. My only guess is that this is one of those things EDI had a block on, one subtle enough that Shepard wouldn't have thought "hey, I need to rent an extranet terminal on the Citadel to get around CerberusNanny".

Ah well, it all worked out. On to 3!

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

RolandX9 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

As for the Alliance contacting Liara, would she have been easy to find if she was on Illium?  Granted she was well-known in Nos Astra, but Illium is way out in the Terminus systems, right?

Her info broker business is public. She has a sweet office. Presumably, this means she's not hard to find (extranet site, advertising, etc). It's implausible in the extreme that the Council's agents would have any trouble finding her if they cared. If they didn't question her, it's probably more a "she's not human, so she can't have any ties to Cerberus; if we want her to look into Cerberus we can just hire her" thing.

It wouldn't make sense for the council/alliance NOT to question her. Atleast if she was romanced, because then she might have a reason to still be connected to Shepard.