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[Sunnie]

Been a while since I posted this, enjoy!

Modifié par Sunnie22, 07 février 2011 - 07:32 .

[TheMarshal]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Been a while since I posted this, enjoy!

::contented sigh:: 

Now I gotta play LotSB again...

[Cranyx]

That Shepard looks just like Kelly!

[emmanuelsieyes]

My thoughts on Liara:



Mass Effect 1:



Liara is in an interesting coming-of-age scenario. She's spent the last fifty years mostly working alone. Now, she's forced into hell, fighting along with a group of people she probably doesn't understand very well (humans, krogans, etc). I've always felt that she spent most of the game (at least up until Ilos) in a state of shock, like the reality hadn't really hit her yet. She's feeling vulnerable, and is looking to Shepard (who rescued her, after all). I think that the major theme of Liara's character in ME1 is gathering the strength to fight, overcoming any fear or apprehension that she may have. Ali HIll's VA seems to show this -- at first, she sounds tired, almost fragile. However, as she progresses, she becomes much more confident, potentially making her move on Shep before Ilos.



ME2 (Vanilla):



Ack!

Just a few sidequests, little dialogue!



However, I don't think that her character was derailed here. I think there was some good character development to be enjoyed. Liara is here to stay. If Mass Effect 1 was her coming of age story, then Mass Effect 2 is Liara rising to power -- using her skills as a scientist -- good old data analysis and collection - to further her own ends.



I like the relationship dynamics (especially if Liara was romanced in ME1). Her concerns of opening up again--very genuine, sincere writing and acting.



ME2: LoTSB



This did a lot to further her backstory, especially at the end, when Shep has a chance to discuss those two intermediary years and put the relationship back together--assuring Liara that she won't leave again. I think that Liara's statement that fighting the Reapers, that working with Shepard will prevent her from abusing her power is a very powerful idea--that's how committed she is to Shep (and this is before the ending scenes, with Liara and Shep talking, so they haven't had much of a chance to try to patch things up).

[jlb524]

Very nice vid, Sunnie! 

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

My thoughts on Liara:

Mass Effect 1:

Liara is in an interesting coming-of-age scenario. She's spent the last fifty years mostly working alone. Now, she's forced into hell, fighting along with a group of people she probably doesn't understand very well (humans, krogans, etc). I've always felt that she spent most of the game (at least up until Ilos) in a state of shock, like the reality hadn't really hit her yet. She's feeling vulnerable, and is looking to Shepard (who rescued her, after all). I think that the major theme of Liara's character in ME1 is gathering the strength to fight, overcoming any fear or apprehension that she may have. Ali HIll's VA seems to show this -- at first, she sounds tired, almost fragile. However, as she progresses, she becomes much more confident, potentially making her move on Shep before Ilos.

Also, Shepard was probably the only person on the ship to ever go speak with Liara.  Liara isn't the type that would go out of her way to mingle with the others on the ship.  When you are feeling lonely on a ship like that, it is nice when someone comes to talk to you.

I didn't ever hear Liara as tired and fragile in ME1....just unsure of herself socially, maybe?  She does gain more confidence, especially around Shepard.

emmanuelsieyes wrote...
ME2 (Vanilla):

Ack!
Just a few sidequests, little dialogue!

However, I don't think that her character was derailed here. I think there was some good character development to be enjoyed. Liara is here to stay. If Mass Effect 1 was her coming of age story, then Mass Effect 2 is Liara rising to power -- using her skills as a scientist -- good old data analysis and collection - to further her own ends.

I like the relationship dynamics (especially if Liara was romanced in ME1). Her concerns of opening up again--very genuine, sincere writing and acting.

ME2: LoTSB

This did a lot to further her backstory, especially at the end, when Shep has a chance to discuss those two intermediary years and put the relationship back together--assuring Liara that she won't leave again. I think that Liara's statement that fighting the Reapers, that working with Shepard will prevent her from abusing her power is a very powerful idea--that's how committed she is to Shep (and this is before the ending scenes, with Liara and Shep talking, so they haven't had much of a chance to try to patch things up).

Good points.

[Barquiel]

jlb524 wrote...

Also, Shepard was probably the only person on the ship to ever go speak with Liara.  Liara isn't the type that would go out of her way to mingle with the others on the ship.  When you are feeling lonely on a ship like that, it is nice when someone comes to talk to you.

Maybe Chakwas?

We know Liara spoke with her in LOTSB.

[jlb524]

True. Perhaps Dr. Chakwas did speak with Liara some, given their proximity. I doubt quite as much as Shepard, though.

[Blansten]

I agree that during the events of ME1 Liara kept to herself with mainly Shepard and occasionally Chakwas keeping her company, I'd like to think that in between ME1 and the opening spacing of ME2 however that she branched out more and started getting to know more of the crew. The fact that Shepard tells her to get people into the shuttle vs. just having her get into the shuttle herself indicates to me that Liara was at least familiar enough with the crew for them to listen to her.

[jlb524]

I agree that she probably opened up some more after spending more time on the Normandy. She's at least friendly with Dr. Chakwas and Joker. For awhile, it seemed to be only Shepard was the one talking to her and was probably her first friend on the ship.

[TheMarshal]

I have no doubt that Shepard was Liara's first friend on the ship. I imagine that over the course of however many weeks/months ME1 spanned, she had to have gotten to talking to the crew, at the very least during mealtimes. I doubt she'd be one to actively seek out other people to talk to, but after so much time in such a small space, you're bound to even accidentally talk to other people. She was going on missions, after all (or every mission, in my case! : P)

[Sable Phoenix]

I agree with that assessment, Les.  It's not so much that she can't, just that she's uncomfortable with it.  Speaking from experience, I know how difficult it can be when you're "different" from everyone around you; as a stereotypical bookworm I was the target of merciless and constant hazing when I was young, which resulted in me being socially uncomfortable for a long time, actually much more at home in the presence of my parents and other adults than those my own age (most adults don't insult you for using big words).  As a brainiac herself, doubtless Liara was subjected to much of the same pressure, and she was a pureblood on top of it, meaning she gets a helping of racism to top it all off.

It's no wonder she gets embarrassed so easily when you first meet her.  By ME2, though, she's obviously comfortable operating in high society and quite capable of being as cutthroat as needed to navigate the vicous world of information brokering (or at least she's able to fake it in a very convincing manner).  Someone who was an actual social misfit wouldn't be able to pull that off.

[TheMarshal]

Pretty astute observations. That actually sounds a lot like my wife, who always felt more comfortable around grown ups than kids when she was growing up.



It would have been nice to see some interaction between the crew beyond the (already woefully infrequent) banter on the elevators.

[emmanuelsieyes]

In ME1, Liara has to speak with Dr. Chakwas--right after Shep/Liara do the mind-melding thing to transfer the Prothean message, Liara nearly goes unconscious. Shepard sends her down to sickbay (which raises the question, if humans only made first contact ~20 years ago, how is Chakwas so damn good at treating Asari, Turians already?).



Another thing to keep in mind: Meeting Shep/crew in ME1 is probably the first time Liara has ever met a human. If she's spent the majority of the last fifty years exploring Prothean ruins (again, keep in mind first contact was 20 years ago), then it's very likely she's never met a human before. Her dialogue (right before the romance path) with Shep, when she is describing her interest in Shepard, also suggests that's she's got very little experience with humans.



Liara is pure-blood Asari--and background information (as well as an overheard conversation on Illium, near where you talk to the asari cop to recruit Samara) tells us that pure-blood asari are resented. It's not surprising that Liara is so quick to spend 50 years out in the middle of nowhere. Naturally, her first reaction to meeting all of these new species (I doubt she would have been familar with the krogan, quarians, or humans) is to shy away (after all, her fellow Asari are going to shun her, what are these warlike krogan and humans, and those criminal quarians going to do?).



I think that a lot of Liara's newfound strength in ME2:LoTSB is from learning to understand that not everyone is going to shun her, in fact, that Shepard and crew respect Liara enough to put their lives on the line to protect her. Liara has gone from an outcast from her society, to a hero who may well (Liara did, in my case) have personally stopped one of the greatest dangers to the galaxy (Saren) in 50,000 years.

[MeandrousJoker]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Liara is pure-blood Asari--and background information (as well as an overheard conversation on Illium, near where you talk to the asari cop to recruit Samara) tells us that pure-blood asari are resented. It's not surprising that Liara is so quick to spend 50 years out in the middle of nowhere. Naturally, her first reaction to meeting all of these new species (I doubt she would have been familar with the krogan, quarians, or humans) is to shy away (after all, her fellow Asari are going to shun her, what are these warlike krogan and humans, and those criminal quarians going to do?).

I think that a lot of Liara's newfound strength in ME2:LoTSB is from learning to understand that not everyone is going to shun her, in fact, that Shepard and crew respect Liara enough to put their lives on the line to protect her. Liara has gone from an outcast from her society, to a hero who may well (Liara did, in my case) have personally stopped one of the greatest dangers to the galaxy (Saren) in 50,000 years.

Just adding my two cents in:

Not to mention that if she did know about the other aliens, her experience would be limited to what she has read or heard about them. 

Indeed. Liara has grown so much. And mostly due to her knowing people that she can depend on and trust after going on excavations for most of her life on her own. I like that she's also very passionate and persistent. In that, it shows when she's willing to do anything to get Shepard back and Feron--despite the latter betraying her, not only once but twice. Some people would break at that point. But she didn't, she pursued and she does owe her life (and Shepard's) to him. Without her, we wouldn't have Mass Effect 2. Heck, in her own right, she's a stand-alone heroine. 

[jlb524]

I still think Liara is an introvert as opposed to an extrovert. I don't see her becoming friendly with most people on the ship right away but mainly b/c she doesn't desire to and doesn't feel comfortable with approaching others on the ship (as mentioned). Shepard definitely has to approach her first, and was the first to do so.



As she became more comfortable, she was then able to go out and befriend others without any problems.

[emmanuelsieyes]

jlb524 - I think that the general consensus is that Liara is an introvert.



Of course, we aren't going to get any proof of Liara not approaching the rest of the crew, due to squadmates not interacting aboard the Normandies, as a function of Mass Effect game mechanics. However, I think that were this, perhaps, a TV show (where the squadmates were capable of observable interaction), then we would see Liara remaining quiet until Shepard starts to build a relationship with Liara.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Also, Shepard was probably the only person on the ship to ever go speak with Liara.  Liara isn't the type that would go out of her way to mingle with the others on the ship.  When you are feeling lonely on a ship like that, it is nice when someone comes to talk to you.

Whether or not Shepard romances Liara, he or she is probably her closest friend on the Normandy, but I doubt she was a loner that never had an oppurtunity to interact with the crew. If the Normandy is anything like modern military vessels (and it appears to be), quarters are cramped and there isn't a lot of room for privacy. That, and meals are a communal activity. She'd be eating at a table along with other squad mates and crew members, and during those times I'd imagine there would be at least some conversation. Also if she had any official duties on the ship, such as assisting Dr Chakwas in Sick Bay, she'd interact with other crew members through work as well.

[MeandrousJoker]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

That, and meals are a communal activity. She'd be eating at a table along with other squad mates and crew members, and during those times I'd imagine there would be at least some conversation. Also if she had any official duties on the ship, such as assisting Dr Chakwas in Sick Bay, she'd interact with other crew members through work as well.

I imagine she'd be a bit awkward and, well, adorkable. 

[pacer90]

Finishing off the 4th chapter of Who We Are, and I realized something which I tried to touch on a bit.



Liara drops EVERYTHING to join the Normandy. While she had good reason to... it wasn't like Garrus or Wrex where they made a conscious decision to quit. Liara was put on the Normandy and just sort of... stayed. Did she resign from her academic career? Did she have a house she lived in? Obligations to whoever sponsored her archeological dig on Therum?



I'm not arguing against it, but I found it odd how it was never discussed by Shepard or the others. At least in my opinion.

[dearlyblvd]

I'm at the ending of my first playthrough of Mass Effect 2 and I just finished the Lair of the Shadow Broker. I have to decide between...

EDIT: This post was edited. The original content can be seen here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/4786509/337#5989160

I decided to keep the discussion on Tali thread, as it had more replies.

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 10 février 2011 - 10:20 .

[Tancho]

@dearlyblvd



Obviously, I'm going to sound biased, but I would choose Liara. I think, however, I have good reasons:



1. While video games are obviously an 'instant gratification' geared industry, games like Mass Effect are a bit different. Things take their time. Not only that, games like Mass Effect are meant to have a more 'real time, real choices' feel to them. With Tali, I feel that everything happens entirely too fast. With Liara, however, we see someone experience life. We see her grow and change - whether it's good or gross.



Not only that, but we see the relationship and dynamics change between Shepard and Liara. Like they would in real life.



Back on the 'instant gratification': I think Tali, like other LI's, are not only a little fast paced, they are also rewarding. You have the option to invite them to your room any time and your dialogue with them is a bit more extensive.



With Liara, it's hard work. It's not the great 'instant gratification', but it's probably going to be the best long term choice (IMO). I think that, in the end, I will be much more satisfied with Liara because of the incredible history and hard work that has been put into their relationship. Not only that, but because it's not always as rewarding as the other LI relationships, we have to more patient and wait longer...and hopefully, in the end, it will pay off.



So, I'm not trying to bash Tali, but. Liara is, in my opinion, the best overall choice for those who chose her in ME1. Obviously, I would say that she's the best overall choice altogether, but in your situation, I'd have to say she's the best choice. It's harder and perhaps not as instantly awesome, but I think that it's going to be much more worth it in the end.

[TheMarshal]

pacer90 wrote...

Finishing off the 4th chapter of Who We Are, and I realized something which I tried to touch on a bit.

Liara drops EVERYTHING to join the Normandy. While she had good reason to... it wasn't like Garrus or Wrex where they made a conscious decision to quit. Liara was put on the Normandy and just sort of... stayed. Did she resign from her academic career? Did she have a house she lived in? Obligations to whoever sponsored her archeological dig on Therum?

I'm not arguing against it, but I found it odd how it was never discussed by Shepard or the others. At least in my opinion.

Kinda curious that nobody ever thought to ask her about it (at least in game), but I imagine that the prospect of galaxy-ending super-machines, the same ones that destroyed the Protheans 50,000 years ago, coming back and...  well...  destroying all civilization again kinda makes digging through ancient ruins seem quaint.

Plus, she's asari.  What's 6+ months on a ship compared to the rest of her life?

(I personally think that she stayed on 'cause of Shepard, but that's just me!  )

[dearlyblvd]

Tancho wrote...

....

I just edited my previous post and decided to keep the discussion on the thread about Tali, as you were the only one to answer me here. I have to thank you for your reply. It was really useful and I agree with a lot of things, specially the idea about long term relationship. You can read more about that on my third post in the link that I provided.