8541 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Wait, how did Saren and Sovereign become aware of the fact that the Conduit was a miniature mass relay, specifically one that served as a "back door" onto the Citadel? Liara, a renowned Prothean expert, was obviously completely unaware of the specifics surrounding the Conduit, but did possess some form of knowledge regarding its existence. I haven't played through ME1 in quite some time, but does Vigil ever mention that the Prothean vision contained information relating to the Conduit? If that were the case, then why is it that neither Shepard or Liara were able to determine what the Conduit was?

I don't know...would Sovereign have known about it since it was around for the Prothean extinction?

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Anyway, in an attempt to drag this conversation in a direction that is more on-topic, I like the idea that Benezia would have provided Saren with some of Liara's research papers. The fact that Liara was able to correctly theorise that galactic extinction occurs in cycles is something that would have caught the eye of both Saren and Sovereign, and is another possible reason as to why she was targeted for abduction and eventual indoctrination.

Yes, I've also wondered if Saren was specifically going after Liara in order to use her as emotional leverage over Benezia...but I'm not sure that was needed given the Indoctrination.

[Sable Phoenix]

Indoctrinated Liara.  There's an unpleasant thought.

As far as the Conduit, I'm sure that Sovereign told Saren about it, and we don't know how long Sovereign was kicking around the galaxy being delayed because it couldn't open the Citadel in the first place.  I don't have a problem believing it managed to discover this through other agents, perhaps even the geth themselves.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jlb524 wrote...

Yes, I've also wondered if Saren was specifically going after Liara in order to use her as emotional leverage over Benezia...but I'm not sure that was needed given the Indoctrination.

I have a feeling that it was Benezia (when she became indoctrinated of-course) who perhaps had the idea to try track Liara down and capture her.

[azarhal]

Liara actually believed the Conduit was a weapon, well at least that's what I got from: "It not a weapon, it's a backdoor to the Citadel!" and she says that when Vigil mention the Conduit on Ilos. Although, it's possible that it was in the Beacon message, it's just that Liara was searching for "Where is the Conduit?" and not "What is the Conduit?".

As for Sovereign knowing about it, the Conduit need to have been build before the Reapers attacked, because the mini mass relay in the Citadel can't have been build after. Now the problem with this is that Liara especially mention that the Conduit is linked to the Prothean extinction and building the Conduit before the extinction start wouldn't link it to the extinction in official papers...

What ever Liara found, it need to have been written by a survivor of the Ilos team, but too damage to make sense to her beside Conduit = Extinction.

[jamesp81]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm surprise not many use the maleshep/liara romance to be honest.

Do you want a real reason? I'd be happy to give it to you, but you might not like what you hear.

Do tell.

[pacer90]

liara is at a huge disdvantage to what information she was able to obtain, and the length of time she had to analyze it. the conduit became a priority for her recently, but who knows how long ago sovereign sent out the signal anddiscovered it didnt work. We also have to keep in mind that the reapers would have extensive records and information on the protheans. Liara was an expert on what was left... the reapers plundered their entire civilization

Modifié par pacer90, 02 mars 2011 - 06:15 .

[azarhal]

We are just us trying to make sense of a plot that have the consistence of a swiss cheese.

Hopefully, Liara get to give us some exposition about the Reapers/Protheans and pre-Protheans species in ME3. I would prefer something like what she said to the ShadowBroker. She could try to shut up Harbringer by explaining what we "lesser creatures" aren't supposed to understand/know.

[AlexMBrennan]

jamesp81 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm surprise not many use the maleshep/liara romance to be honest.

Do you want a real reason? I'd be happy to give it to you, but you might not like what you hear.

Do tell.

I honestly can't think of a reply that is not just a thinly veiled ad hominem attack.

[Xilizhra]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm surprise not many use the maleshep/liara romance to be honest.

Do you want a real reason? I'd be happy to give it to you, but you might not like what you hear.

Do tell.

I honestly can't think of a reply that is not just a thinly veiled ad hominem attack.

I take that as a challenge.

There are two reasons. One is that we think that Maleshep is less of a character and more of an avatar of the player, given Meer's monotone voice. Hence, looking from the outside, since Femshep has more personality, the romance comes off better.
Second, the presentation of Femshep/Liara... it's hard to say. They feel more equal, while Maleshep/Liara feels sort of like he's taking advantage of her. It may be an artifact of our own perceptions, but that's what it feels like. Add to the fact that asari have no logical reason to enjoy penetrative sex...

[kumquats]

jamesp81 wrote...

I'm surprise not many use the maleshep/liara romance to be honest.

For my MaleShep I choose the
Jack romance, just because I think Jack's backround is so heartbreaking
and I think she deserves to be loved.<3
But I save alot and of course tried different Dialogue options. I cheatet on Liara just to get the "I only want you" speech.
Without the Jack option my MaleShep would have stayed with Liara, I think.

[jlb524]

Lizardviking wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yes, I've also wondered if Saren was specifically going after Liara in order to use her as emotional leverage over Benezia...but I'm not sure that was needed given the Indoctrination.

I have a feeling that it was Benezia (when she became indoctrinated of-course) who perhaps had the idea to try track Liara down and capture her.

You might be right...which is a depressing thought

[Xilizhra]

Hannah, did you just copy and paste that whole thing, or do you know it by heart?

I wish I did, but yes, that's copypasta.

[jlb524]

pacer90 wrote...


liara is at a huge disdvantage to what information she was able to obtain, and the length of time she had to analyze it. the conduit became a priority for her recently, but who knows how long ago sovereign sent out the signal anddiscovered it didnt work. We also have to keep in mind that the reapers would have extensive records and information on the protheans. Liara was an expert on what was left... the reapers plundered their entire civilization

Right, I imagine Sovereign at least would have kept that info, given that it was the Vanguard of the Reaper invasions into our galaxy.  I imagine if the Reapers are universal, each galaxy has their own vanguard.

[Rusty Pabst]

Two more Liara images:




http://masseffectscr...vorites-part-9/

[AlexMBrennan]

Add to the fact that asari have no logical reason to enjoy penetrative sex...

This is why I dread these discussions; why did you mention that Shepard and Liara have compatible parts when we are talking about a romance? [Particularly egregious in fanfiction; stating Shepard's sexual orientation in the introduction implies the relationship is based only on physical attraction (why mention it otherwise?)]

Yet suggesting that Liara might not care about trivial things such Shepard's sex (e.g. because the mind meld is, at least potentially, far more intimate than anything else) is guaranteed to result in responses along the lines of "Men are abomination whose presence in the ME universe is an offence against the maker"

[Xilizhra]

That one might be more of a problem with the players of the romance than the romance itself. As for why the romance seems worse off... well, Maleshep was made to be less of a character, and I think that's behind nearly all of the things that annoy us about him.

[Kingthlayer]

I know Redemption is a few months(a year?) old but I just finished reading it for the first time yesterday and I have to say I really enjoyed the dedication that Liara showed to Shepard in it. Plus as a character she really changed as well. I liked the move from kind of naive just wanted to study the Protheans to just someone a lot harder and not going to take **** from anyone. I hope she stays the same in ME3, she get anymore harder and could possibly become worse than the Shadow Broker we took down.

Though semi-off topic, I have to credit the writing in the comic as well for not forcing either male or female Shepard down our throat. I was able to read the comic with Shepard being my created female one and it felt like something Liara would do to save her, where as I can't really see Liara caring about my male Shepard at all and the whole comic wouldn't make any sense reading it from his perspective.

[jlb524]

Nice pics, Rusty!

AlexMBrennan wrote...

This is why I dread these discussions; why did you mention that Shepard and Liara have compatible parts when we are talking about a romance? [Particularly egregious in fanfiction; stating Shepard's sexual orientation in the introduction implies the relationship is based only on physical attraction (why mention it otherwise?)]

Relationships do have some basis in physical attraction, though.   If not...why aren't all humans bisexual?  Why aren't all LI's bisexual (though, they should be, IMO).

AlexMBrennan wrote...
Yet suggesting that Liara might not care about trivial things such Shepard's sex (e.g. because the mind meld is, at least potentially, far more intimate than anything else) is guaranteed to result in responses along the lines of "Men are abomination whose presence in the ME universe is an offence against the maker"

Nice strawman.

[jlb524]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...
I know Redemption is a few months(a year?) old but I just finished reading it for the first time yesterday and I have to say I really enjoyed the dedication that Liara showed to Shepard in it. Plus as a character she really changed as well. I liked the move from kind of naive just wanted to study the Protheans to just someone a lot harder and not going to take **** from anyone. I hope she stays the same in ME3, she get anymore harder and could possibly become worse than the Shadow Broker we took down.

I'm glad you enjoyed Redemption..I still need to re-read it to see if I can appreciate it after all these months of hating it.

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...
Though semi-off topic, I have to credit the writing in the comic as well for not forcing either male or female Shepard down our throat. I was able to read the comic with Shepard being my created female one and it felt like something Liara would do to save her, where as I can't really see Liara caring about my male Shepard at all and the whole comic wouldn't make any sense reading it from his perspective.

Yes, I agree...they did a good job at keeping canon out of the comic.  Though, this did limit them a bit....for one, they couldn't add in any romancy stuff given that Shepard didn't have to romance Liara in ME1.