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[jbauck]

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jbauck wrote...
As for baby names, I'm going to cheer myself up by going with: they name their children after the place they were conceived, and their honeymoon results in little baby Normandy T'Soni-Shepard.  'Cuz, well, it was a long flight.

Haha!

Regarding the Illium Lost Locket assignment, I actually think that specific quest and conversation is a subtle piece of fanservice directed at us Liara romancers. I'm sure BioWare is aware of the fact that many of us are curious regarding the future of Shepard and Liara's romance, and how the asari perceive their human bondmates. To see that one asari so openly grieving for and mourning her deceased human bondmate was quite touching, and gives us an indication as to how some asari regard their relationships with humans.

I do think that a possible bondmate ceremony in ME3 has been foreshadowed enough times, but we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I'd be overjoyed if BW incorporated something like this!

Not to bring in too much outside fiction, but, you reminded me of the marriage between Aragorn and Arwen at the end of Lord of the Rings.  The analogies between that, and Shepard and Liara, just sorta kinda blew my mind.  ME3, in my mind, is already shaping up to be 'Return of the King IN SPACE' so this will require further consideration.

*strokes beard*

Also, I'd like to point out, since I haven't seen it yet (long thread is long), but if Aethyta is Liara's mother, then Liara's grandfather is a Krogan.

Arguably, every sci-fi or fantasy trilogy is a tweaked Lord of the Rings, in some way   This is why I've never really gotten all hyped up about a game setting, and have always prioritized characterization and npc interactions.  I mean, I've saved the City/Country/World/Galaxy/Universe so many times from some dark terrible evil in video games that this whole Reaper thing just isn't something I can get excited about ... same with DA:O, which is much more LotR than ME.

So, for me - and I realize this is my personal opinion, and plenty of gamers feel differently - the NPC party-members >are< the franchise in a trilogy like ME.  Reapers?  Been done.  Biotics?  Nothing new.  Shepard?  Customizable, so pretty damn cool ... but, uhh ... my Shepard had friends and was totally in love with the blue alien scientist.  Where'd they go?  Anyway, that's why I felt like I didn't really have ME2 until LotSB came out, and why I'm scared of a bunch of new characters showing up in ME3

But, yes - Shep/Liara is totally Aragorn/Arwen ... and as I recall, Aethyta is discussed at length in this thread, and the general consensus is that Liara's grandaddy was totally a Krogan.  Which, personally, I love.

[jlb524]

I agree, jbauck. Fighting against ancient evils is quite boring, as this has been done to death (I guess it fits in with the video game genre /shrugs)



The characters make the story, especially Liara. Especially my Shepard and Liara and their love for each other that will totally transcend time!!!!!!!!!!



Yes, and if asari genetics worked like humans, Liara's grandfather is krogan. I have no clue what this would be called using asari terminology.



Also, I updated my fan fic for those interested go here and stuff.

[drwells123]

jlb524 wrote...

Also, I updated my fan fic for those interested go here and stuff.

Thank you for writing, I always look forward to new chapters of this story. Re: your author's note, Liara fluff just never gets old. Someone could publish a 1500-page omnibus of it and I'd put it by the bedside and read some before crashing every night. It's like tonic for the brain

[jlb524]

drwells123 wrote...

Thank you for writing, I always look forward to new chapters of this story. Re: your author's note, Liara fluff just never gets old. Someone could publish a 1500-page omnibus of it and I'd put it by the bedside and read some before crashing every night. It's like tonic for the brain

Yeah, fluff is good!  There will be more of it, of course, mixed in with all the angst.

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Both Shepard and Liara are fully aware of the fact that the latter will outlive the former by several centuries, and yet fall in love regardless. Liara is willing to endure the eventual heartbreak of Shepard's death because she loves her to that extent. To me, that is romance and love in it's purest form...an individual allows herself to grow attached to and fall in love with another person, fully aware of the fact that she will outlive her partner. It's extremely touching, and testament to just how much Shepard means to Liara.

I agree. Though, this seems to be the norm for asari pairings unless:

* They take on an asari (or krogain) partner.  I think these pairings are rare, according to some things said in game, though.  The 'pureblood stigma' and I believe Shepard mentions that asari/krogan pairings are rare during the 'Illium Blue Rose' quest.

* They don't allow themselves to get that attached to the partner, basically using them for reproduction.  I'm not sure how common this is.  This isn't the case with Liara/Shepard, of course.

[jbauck]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Well, Liara tells us in ME1 that every asari relationship is different. As you said, some are just a single encounter, with both participants parting ways afterwards, whereas others are more long-term. Problem is, we don't really have a large enough sample size to draw any form of conclusion regarding the asari's general attitude toward relationships. Liara and the "Locket" asari obviously hold them in high regard, whereas the "Blue Rose" asari seems to be wary of any form of long-term commitment.

Additionally, Benezia's seperation from Aethyta is something that hurt her quite deeply, especially when considering what Liara says in ME1. Whilst it does seem that most asari value relationships, we know far too little to draw any form of definitive conclusion.

Asari relationships could also be different for the same Asari over their lifespan.  I think it's implied that Maiden pairings are temporary, and Matron pairings more "permanent" - that is, as "permanent" as the shorter life-span of the partner allows.  I definitely regarded the "Blue Rose" Asari as being younger than the "Locket" Asari.

I'm sitting here having this weird chicken/egg circular discussion with myself: does a Maiden become a Matron when they find and settle down with a permanent partner, or does an Asari find and settle down with a permanent partner when they become a Matron?  We know the Matron stage can be triggered early, but there's a lot of contradictory/vague/confusing info on that.

Good thing that they're very clear about what Shep means to Liara.  The fact that they bother to say that the Matron stage can be triggered early is - totally pointless if they weren't planning on going there with a romanced Liara, but I like that it's kind of a moot point.  Regardless of life stage, Liara's going to be with Shepard for as long as she can.

[TMA LIVE]

Well, I don't think the term "trigger early", means "I'm now Matron". It more of means them becoming more grown up despite a young age. Like a child who doesn't want to play with toys, and wants to study being a lawyer, and prefers talking to grown ups. It just something that happens to some people, who want to grow up right away, or matured faster.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 15 décembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[jlb524]

jbauck wrote...

I'm sitting here having this weird chicken/egg circular discussion with myself: does a Maiden become a Matron when they find and settle down with a permanent partner, or does an Asari find and settle down with a permanent partner when they become a Matron?  We know the Matron stage can be triggered early, but there's a lot of contradictory/vague/confusing info on that.

Both seem possible.  One Maiden may decide to become a Matron prematurely is she finds a partner she wants to have children with.  On the other hand, another asari Maiden may not even think about having children until she naturally moves into the Matron stage around age 300 or so.

Modifié par jlb524, 15 décembre 2010 - 06:18 .

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Speaking of which, I find it quite interesting that Liara is virtually identical to what Matriarch Aethyta considers to be an ideal Maiden. I'm not saying that Liara's intelligence, and desire to do something constructive with her life is a result of her parentage. I think that she would retain her personality regardless, as she's a naturally intelligent, wise, capable, curious and hard-working woman. However, it's an interesting thought as to whether Aethyta had some form of biological influence over her.

Technically it seems Aethyta wouldn't have had biological influence over her.  It could be for mere social reasons.  Perhaps Benezia also agreed with Aethyta that Maidens should be out working and accomplishing some goal beyond wasting time stripping or in a merc band?  Their shared views on the asari could have been one of the main reasons they were attracted to each other in the first place.   Then, of course, Benezia would have passed thses ideas on to Liara when she raised her.

I don't know if this is fact, I'm just giving a possible non-biological explanation for it.

Modifié par jlb524, 15 décembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[jlb524]

I just don't like biological reasons, due to the murkiness of asari genetics.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Indeed, and that's just as plausible. However, what I'm suggesting is that Aethyta's ideals and beliefs may have exterted a biological influence over Liara's natural desire to explore, to do something constructive with her life, and her intelligence. It's like a cumulative effect.

While the codex states (I think) that the father in an asari paring don't have any real "influence" beside making the mother pregnant. I still wonder if the father might actuelly have some influence on a genetic level regarding the child like you suggested, that the child might remind a bit like the father.

[pacer90]

I wonder if Aethya's controversial views are what drove her away from Benezia, who was a high ranking Asari Matriarch.



It would mean the world to Liara if it wasn't in fact her being a pureblood that drove Aethya away and made Benezia never speak of her.

[jlb524]

It seems as if Benezia shared some of Aethyta's views, though. According to Liara, Benezia always pushed for the asari to become more involved in galactic politics. This is similar to what Aethyta wants (get up and do things instead of sitting on your bums reading philosophy and doing art).

It may just be the pureblood thing drove them apart somehow and created the wedge. We find out in ME1 that the pureblood thing is 'bad' but we don't really get to see the consequences of this until ME2, or how bad it actually is. From listening to those random asari on Illium, it seems as if asari are really discriminated against and judged for being a pureblood.

But, on the other hand, I doubt someone like Aethyta would give a crap about this discrimination.  Unless, it was Benezia that broke off the relationship.

Modifié par jlb524, 15 décembre 2010 - 07:53 .

[pacer90]

Hmm my post wasn't very clear. What I mean is that Benezia was highly respected, while Aethya was not. If their views were similar it was likely the methods each went about to get things done.



Aethya is pretty brash and probably would have jepordized benezia's career regardless of if their ideals were the same.

[jlb524]

I see. Yes, that could be what did drive them apart. I hope that is brought up in ME3 if Aethyta and Liara reunite.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jlb524 wrote...

It may just be the pureblood thing drove them apart somehow and created the wedge. We find out in ME1 that the pureblood thing is 'bad' but we don't really get to see the consequences of this until ME2, or how bad it actually is. From listening to those random asari on Illium, it seems as if asari are really discriminated against and judged for being a pureblood.

While i'm glad that Bioware bothered to pick up and explain the whole "purebloods are bad" thing in ME2. It still boggles my mind that apperently alot of asari hold prejucide against purebloods. I could buy it if was only something that was common among higher classes of asari society or the outer worlds where it would be more common for non-asari to live. But unless there is a very large minority of non-asari on all the older worlds, the thing seems silly to me as it is.

[pacer90]

It would be an incredibly annoying unfired Chekov gun if it wasn't resolved. Much more so than any other character backstory in my opinion.