8541 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Lizardviking wrote...

While i'm glad that Bioware bothered to pick up and explain the whole "purebloods are bad" thing in ME2. It still boggles my mind that apperently alot of asari hold prejucide against purebloods. I could buy it if was only something that was common among higher classes of asari society or the outer worlds where it would be more common for non-asari to live. But unless there is a very large minority of non-asari on all the older worlds, the thing seems silly to me as it is.

It's no more or less silly than the prejudices humans have against each other.

pacer90 wrote...

It would be an incredibly annoying unfired Chekov gun if it wasn't resolved. Much more so than any other
character backstory in my opinion.

Yeah, especially because they didn't just drop Liara's unresolved family issue in ME1 (like they could just have)...they dug it back up again in LotSB.   They had to do this for a reason, I hope.

Modifié par jlb524, 15 décembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jlb524 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

While i'm glad that Bioware bothered to pick up and explain the whole "purebloods are bad" thing in ME2. It still boggles my mind that apperently alot of asari hold prejucide against purebloods. I could buy it if was only something that was common among higher classes of asari society or the outer worlds where it would be more common for non-asari to live. But unless there is a very large minority of non-asari on all the older worlds, the thing seems silly to me as it is.

It's no more or less silly than the prejudices humans have against each other.

I get what you mean. But the whole thing is basicly prejuicde on something they have done all the time before discovering the other races, and they were a quite civlised people even back then.

[pacer90]

I guessed that the asari philosophy of trying to connect with other races had a huge role in the pureblood stigma. They try so hard to be the voice of reason and diplomacy (as stated in the first line of the codex, like it's their archtype) that I wonder if the stigma came about in their first centuries of alien contact.



You see new species, higher ups and policy makers encourage cross species mating to facilitate cohesion. Over time it is seen as the norm, and even longer it becomes an expected thing. Eventually you have a society that discourages asari + asari pairings but doesn't even really know why anymore.

[jlb524]

Lizardviking wrote...

I get what you mean. But the whole thing is basicly prejuicde on something they have done all the time before discovering the other races, and they were a quite civlised people even back then.

I do agree it's bogus...they just needed a reason to explain why the asari would go looking for other mates when they can find perfectly acceptable ones amongst their own kind.  It isn't very good, IMO, and feels quite contrived.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

pacer90 wrote...

I guessed that the asari philosophy of trying to connect with other races had a huge role in the pureblood stigma. They try so hard to be the voice of reason and diplomacy (as stated in the first line of the codex, like it's their archtype) that I wonder if the stigma came about in their first centuries of alien contact.

You see new species, higher ups and policy makers encourage cross species mating to facilitate cohesion. Over time it is seen as the norm, and even longer it becomes an expected thing. Eventually you have a society that discourages asari + asari pairings but doesn't even really know why anymore.

But like I said. I don't really see such a thing happening unless there's a good chunk of non-asari on all the older worlds and colonies.

[pacer90]

Lizardviking wrote...

pacer90 wrote...

I guessed that the asari philosophy of trying to connect with other races had a huge role in the pureblood stigma. They try so hard to be the voice of reason and diplomacy (as stated in the first line of the codex, like it's their archtype) that I wonder if the stigma came about in their first centuries of alien contact.

You see new species, higher ups and policy makers encourage cross species mating to facilitate cohesion. Over time it is seen as the norm, and even longer it becomes an expected thing. Eventually you have a society that discourages asari + asari pairings but doesn't even really know why anymore.

But like I said. I don't really see such a thing happening unless there's a good chunk of non-asari on all the older worlds and colonies.

Yeah I'm just spouting a possible reason, when in reality the whole thing doesn't make sense. Though it would explain why every asari seems so damn friendly to Shepard on ilium.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jlb524 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I get what you mean. But the whole thing is basicly prejuicde on something they have done all the time before discovering the other races, and they were a quite civlised people even back then.

I do agree it's bogus...they just needed a reason to explain why the asari would go looking for other mates when they can find perfectly acceptable ones amongst their own kind.  It isn't very good, IMO, and feels quite contrived.

Bioware could still retcon it to something like I suggested and have it fit with Liara facing mockery when she younger. She's must have been a upper-class citizen.

[scampermax]

jlb524 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I get what you mean. But the whole thing is basicly prejuicde on something they have done all the time before discovering the other races, and they were a quite civlised people even back then.

I do agree it's bogus...they just needed a reason to explain why the asari would go looking for other mates when they can find perfectly acceptable ones amongst their own kind.  It isn't very good, IMO, and feels quite contrived.

It's contrived because there's no need to explain it at all really. It's happened throughout human history -- going outside one's tribe/race, etc. So it stands to reason that asari - who can mate with any species - would do the same. The difference here is that the "purebloods" are being discriminated against rather than the mixed race offspring.

[pacer90]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

On Illium, the conversation between the two asari in close proximity to the Baria Frontiers kiosk, specifically about Erinya and purebloods, leads to believe that the pureblood stigma is a consequence of jealous children of asari/non-asari parents being forced to watch their father grow old and die, whereas purebloods are able to spend a greater amount of time with both parents. It must be incredibly difficult for these asari to watch their fathers grow old and die whilst they're still young, and I can imagine the resentment toward purebloods developing from there.

I think one of those aforementioned asari states that her father was a salarian. Go figure.

That.... makes a lot of sense. Perhaps they get around the whole lack of non-asari options on their homeworlds by finding someone during their maiden *wandering* years.

[Sable Phoenix]

jlb524 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Speaking of which, I find it quite interesting that Liara is virtually identical to what Matriarch Aethyta considers to be an ideal Maiden. I'm not saying that Liara's intelligence, and desire to do something constructive with her life is a result of her parentage. I think that she would retain her personality regardless, as she's a naturally intelligent, wise, capable, curious and hard-working woman. However, it's an interesting thought as to whether Aethyta had some form of biological influence over her.

Technically it seems Aethyta wouldn't have had biological influence over her.  It could be for mere social reasons.  Perhaps Benezia also agreed with Aethyta that Maidens should be out working and accomplishing some goal beyond wasting time stripping or in a merc band?  Their shared views on the asari could have been one of the main reasons they were attracted to each other in the first place.   Then, of course, Benezia would have passed thses ideas on to Liara when she raised her.

I don't know if this is fact, I'm just giving a possible non-biological explanation for it.

I think they fathers in asari pairings do have an influence over their offspring.  Aethyta is the most dramatic example of this; she definitely got some influence from her krogan father, since she's easily the most abrasive asari you meet (though somehow charming because of it).  The asari probably wouldn't just believe that pairing with aliens made their gene pool more diverse without some basis in fact.  The idea that something intangible is transferred to enhance the species beyond what would be gained from pairing with another asari, and the concurrent prejudice against purebloods, are of course as artificial as any racism, but like any kind of racism they have to have a basis in some kind of real biological difference.  I know asari have this mystical air about them, but remember they've had thousands of years of being far more technologically advanced than human society, and would have been able to examine and document their own biology in exacting detail, so their beliefs on their own reproduction are probably based on some pretty rock solid science.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

On Illium, the conversation between the two asari in close proximity to the Baria Frontiers kiosk, specifically about Erinya and purebloods, leads to believe that the pureblood stigma is a consequence of jealous children of asari/non-asari parents being forced to watch their father grow old and die, whereas purebloods are able to spend a greater amount of time with both parents. It must be incredibly difficult for these asari to watch their fathers grow old and die whilst they're still young, and I can imagine the resentment toward purebloods developing from there.

I think one of those aforementioned asari states that her father was a salarian. Go figure.

Like Pacer said, that idea make some sense. But I still think it would only be something confined to worlds like Illium, that also contains lot of non-asari.

[Captain Iglo]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

On Illium, the conversation between the two asari in close proximity to the Baria Frontiers kiosk, specifically about Erinya and purebloods, leads to believe that the pureblood stigma is a consequence of jealous children of asari/non-asari parents being forced to watch their father grow old and die, whereas purebloods are able to spend a greater amount of time with both parents. It must be incredibly difficult for these asari to watch their fathers grow old and die whilst they're still young, and I can imagine the resentment toward purebloods developing from there.

I think one of those aforementioned asari states that her father was a salarian. Go figure.

Thats quite a good explanation.

It might also have something to do with the Ardat Yakshi. They can only be a product of pureblood mating. And even if Samaras daughters are the only ones known of at the moment, we dont know how much more of em existed in an earlier time period which could have led to a resentment of pureblooded pairings.

[Sable Phoenix]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Thats quite a good explanation.

It might also have something to do with the Ardat Yakshi. They can only be a product of pureblood mating. And even if Samaras daughters are the only ones known of at the moment, we dont know how much more of em existed in an earlier time period which could have led to a resentment of pureblooded pairings.

That's another bit of evidence that there is actual genetic influence gained from the father during asari mating.  If there wasn't, Ardat-Yakshi would be equally as likely to occur in non-purebloods as they are in purebloods.

[jbauck]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I think they fathers in asari pairings do have an influence over their offspring.  Aethyta is the most dramatic example of this; she definitely got some influence from her krogan father, since she's easily the most abrasive asari you meet (though somehow charming because of it). 
<snipped really good argument>

Nature ... nurture ...

I can't remember specifics (again), but I got the impression this "how much does the father actually contribute in an Asari pairing?" debate is ... a matter of contention in the ME universe.  Which, probably, is something of a cop-out on BW's part so they never have to answer the question definitively -

"Uhhh, boss?  This codex entry about Asari pairings is contradictory with this other thing over here ..."
"Just say the ME universe scientists haven't arrived at an answer, so we don't have to say one way or the other.  Next problem!"

So, I prefer Sable's interpretation.

[jlb524]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I think they fathers in asari pairings do have an influence over their offspring.  Aethyta is the most dramatic example of this; she definitely got some influence from her krogan father, since she's easily the most abrasive asari you meet (though somehow charming because of it).  The asari probably wouldn't just believe that pairing with aliens made their gene pool more diverse without some basis in fact.  The idea that something intangible is transferred to enhance the species beyond what would be gained from pairing with another asari, and the concurrent prejudice against purebloods, are of course as artificial as any racism, but like any kind of racism they have to have a basis in some kind of real biological difference.  I know asari have this mystical air about them, but remember they've had thousands of years of being far more technologically advanced than human society, and would have been able to examine and document their own biology in exacting detail, so their beliefs on their own reproduction are probably based on some pretty rock solid science.

There are also possible non-biological explanations for Aethyta's 'krogan-like' behavior...she was raised by one for hundreds of years.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Captain Iglo wrote...
Thats quite a good explanation.

It might also have something to do with the Ardat Yakshi. They can only be a product of pureblood mating. And even if Samaras daughters are the only ones known of at the moment, we dont know how much more of em existed in an earlier time period which could have led to a resentment of pureblooded pairings.

Slightly off-topic. I don't think Samara's three daughters are the only AY. Because would the asari goverment really have special prisons dedicated to only three prisoners?

[TMA LIVE]

Lizardviking wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...
Thats quite a good explanation.

It might also have something to do with the Ardat Yakshi. They can only be a product of pureblood mating. And even if Samaras daughters are the only ones known of at the moment, we dont know how much more of em existed in an earlier time period which could have led to a resentment of pureblooded pairings.

Slightly off-topic. I don't think Samara's three daughters are the only AY. Because would the asari goverment really have special prisons dedicated to only three prisoners?

But she said to her knowledge, 3 only exist, including Morinth.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 15 décembre 2010 - 10:39 .

[Captain Iglo]

Lizardviking wrote...

Slightly off-topic. I don't think Samara's three daughters are the only AY. Because would the asari goverment really have special prisons dedicated to only three prisoners?

dunno...maybe they also have some Asari Super Villains in that prison
Im sure there are more out there...hiding themself or hidden by asari government.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 15 décembre 2010 - 09:40 .

[jlb524]

I just think asari genetics = convoluted mess



So, until BW clears it up, I prefer other explanations for behavior, like upbringing.

[Captain Iglo]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Wait, isn't it stated that purebloods are more likely to give birth to Ardat-Yakshi, and not that it is more probable that purebloods themselves would be afflicted with the condition?

hmmm...am not sure...thought it was only when pure blood. Been some time since I had that dialogue with Samara.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...

But she said to her knowledge, 3 only existed, including Morinth.

Does she? I think she said that only 3 are in existance today. But if they got prisons designs for AY, there's a good chance it's because there are more than 3 around.