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[Centauri2002]

Lizardviking wrote...


For Shepard's sake? Because Vasir and all Asari are female, meaning that in the eyes of a human, they would be a species consisting only of women.

That's certainly a possibility. Although, would she really be taking Shepard's perspective into consideration at that moment in time? She was completely focused on the Shadow Broker data and hadn't been around Shepard in two years. Perhaps I'm ovethinking it. It's probably just a slip up on BioWare's part. >.>

Let's ask Liara what she thinks on this matter:



Nope, guess she doesn't know either. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 04 avril 2011 - 11:15 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

centauri2002 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...


For Shepard's sake? Because Vasir and all Asari are female, meaning that in the eyes of a human, they would be a species consisting only of women.

That's certainly a possibility. Although, would she really be taking Shepard's perspective into consideration at that moment in time? She was completely focused on the Shadow Broker data and hadn't been around Shepard in two years. Perhaps I'm ovethinking it. It's probably just a slip up on BioWare's part. >.>

Also remember that Liara is presumably speaking in her own native tongue. And since Shepard is using an translator (made by humans for humans), it possible that the translator just took what Liara said and turned it into "woman" because Shepard is a human.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 04 avril 2011 - 11:18 .

[Centauri2002]

Lizardviking wrote...

Also remember that Liara is presumably speaking in her own native tongue. And since Shepard is using an translator (made by humans for humans), it possible that the translator just took what Liara said and turned it into "woman" because Shepard is a human.

Wasn't there mention of a universal language at one point in the games? Galactic, yes?

I don't recall translators being spoken of but I may have missed that. >.>

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

centauri2002 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Also remember that Liara is presumably speaking in her own native tongue. And since Shepard is using an translator (made by humans for humans), it possible that the translator just took what Liara said and turned it into "woman" because Shepard is a human.

Wasn't there mention of a universal language at one point in the games? Galactic, yes?

I don't recall translators being spoken of but I may have missed that. >.>

There is a codex for the translators if you have "Bring down the sky" DLC for ME1.

And yeah, there is a universal language. Althrough I remember it being stated that it was simply a "basic" language that was not really developed.

[Centauri2002]

Lizardviking wrote...

There is a codex for the translators if you have "Bring down the sky" DLC for ME1.

And yeah, there is a universal language. Althrough I remember it being stated that it was simply a "basic" language that was not really developed.

Yep, you're absolutely right. I rarely read the codex these days so I missed it. I just looked it up and it mentions machine translators for a few hundred credits. I wonder what would happen if those transmitters were jammed on a mission or onboard the Normandy. The different species wouldn't be able to communicate. >.>

Well, your explanation certainly clears up my silly questioning of the dialogue now. But that still means I can't use 'woman' in my narrative. Bah! 

[IndigoWolfe]

centauri2002 wrote...

Which raises the question... why did Liara use it when referring to Vasir? BioWare, you confuse me! D:

Now, this is probably me overthinking things, but I have an in-universe theory.

In the asari language, there's most certainly a describer that is used in conversation that is not 'person' or 'asari' that is translated into human languages as 'woman' for simplicity's sake. However, in the asari language's mindset, it does not mean the same thing --with the word 'woman' being the counterpart to 'man'-- due to the fact that asari aren't dual-gendered.

[IndigoWolfe]

Ooooo, now I want to hear Liara speaking in asari...

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

centauri2002 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

There is a codex for the translators if you have "Bring down the sky" DLC for ME1.

And yeah, there is a universal language. Althrough I remember it being stated that it was simply a "basic" language that was not really developed.

Yep, you're absolutely right. I rarely read the codex these days so I missed it. I just looked it up and it mentions machine translators for a few hundred credits. I wonder what would happen if those transmitters were jammed on a mission or onboard the Normandy. The different species wouldn't be able to communicate. >.>

Well, your explanation certainly clears up my silly questioning of the dialogue now. But that still means I can't use 'woman' in my narrative. Bah! 

I would not be bothered if you used "woman" to refer to Liara once or twice really, perhaps it is even necesary in order to not repeat the same words over and over.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Ooooo, now I want to hear Liara speaking in asari...

But what if it makes her sound like an exotic, sexy blue alien with tentacles instead hair?! 

Wait...

[Centauri2002]

Lizardviking wrote...

I would not be bothered if you used "woman" to refer to Liara once or twice really, perhaps it is even necesary in order to not repeat the same words over and over.

I may do that, if it doesn't grate against the purist in me too much. 

@Indigo: Great, now I want to hear that as well now!

[emmanuelsieyes]

TheMarshal wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

I always wondered how far Liara would go to keep her shadow broker identity hidden. As an info broker on Illium, she was a potential target. However, now Liara is going to have to keep her real identity hidden. In LoTSB, the yahg bombed an entire building, killing dozens, to try and stop Liara from discovering his base. I'm wondering how far Liara is willing to go to keep herself hidden, especially since having Shepard as her partner will make her a target for public scrutiny.

It was curious that Liara didn't seem to be worried about her identity being well-known as an information broker.  In fact, she was known BECAUSE of her role.  As the Shadow Broker, obviously she's playing with heavier ammo, and the people she pisses off aren't just businessmen and women, but governments and mercernary groups, so she'd definitely have to work hard to keep her identity a secret.  I'm sure that she'd be able to quickly figure out exactly how far she can push things without running the risk of being identified.  After all, the previous Shadow Broker(s) had been able to remain anonymous the entire time.

In my headcanon, it's Shepard who becomes (insanely) protective of Liara's identity while she's the Shadow Broker.

@centauri - All I've been able to think about all lunch has been how the kidnapping story unfolds.  Thanks a lot!  : P  (Actually, I now have an antagonist and a couple plot ideas, so yay!)

Also, we don't know that pre-LoTSB Liara was working with anything beyond local Illium intellgence.

Losing the Shadow Broker would disrupt the galactic balance of power. The SB is a necessary counterweight to the Salarian STG/Intelligence services.

I expect that Shepard is going to handle security/wetwork for Liara. Liara's expertise is in analysis, which is generally the most valuable skill out there. Shepard has military expertise, which will help Liara deal with military/special forces information. However, Shepard's characterization isn't particularly academic - Shepard can understand troop formations and the like, but I doubt she's up to understanding large-scale political and economic movements.

Keep in mind that Liara is planning for the next several centuries. As much as she cares about Shepard, Shepard has about 120 years left (plus minus 2 standard deviations). Feron is even worse - according to the ME wiki, Drell only live for around 85 years. Feron and Shepard can handle intelligence gathering and wetwork, however, analysis is really what the Shadow Broker does and that's something Liara has to do for herself.

I hope Liara knows some statistics. If she's going to have to assassinate someone who's onto her trail, I'm hoping that she understands how to manage 'information leaks'. Shooting someone in the head is obvious. Slipping some radioisotope-tagged neurotransmitters into their food, to give them a terminal case of brain cancer is not obvious. The other problem Liara has is to cover up any evidence of a change in power.

Addendum - Earlier there was a question of what appearance we prefer for Liara. I like her LoTSB appearnce the best. An asari with pink lips makes absolutely zero sense - their blood is purple, there's no reason why their lips would be pink. I've been replaying ME1 and it's like they wanted to make her look as human as possible. I prefer the LoTSB appearance since she looks more alien. Although I wish they got rid of her eyebrows. Looking at her ME1 face, it bugs me that an asari has pink lips + eyebrows. Seems like BioWare was worried that nobody would go for her if they made her too alien. Reminds me with the interview with the art department as they were designing Thane. They wanted him to be an alien, however, they were concerned about making him 'too' alien.

Modifié par emmanuelsieyes, 04 avril 2011 - 11:51 .

[Centauri2002]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Also, we don't know that pre-LoTSB Liara was working with anything beyond local Illium intellgence.

Losing the Shadow Broker would disrupt the galactic balance of power. The SB is a necessary counterweight to the Salarian STG/Intelligence services.

I expect that Shepard is going to handle security/wetwork for Liara. Liara's expertise is in analysis, which is generally the most valuable skill out there. Shepard has military expertise, which will help Liara deal with military/special forces information. However, Shepard's characterization isn't particularly academic - Shepard can understand troop formations and the like, but I doubt she's up to understanding large-scale political and economic movements.

Keep in mind that Liara is planning for the next several centuries. As much as she cares about Shepard, Shepard has about 120 years left (plus minus 2 standard deviations). Feron is even worse - according to the ME wiki, Drell only live for around 85 years. Feron and Shepard can handle intelligence gathering and wetwork, however, analysis is really what the Shadow Broker does and that's something Liara has to do for herself.

I hope Liara knows some statistics. If she's going to have to assassinate someone who's onto her trail, I'm hoping that she understands how to manage 'information leaks'. Shooting someone in the head is obvious. Slipping some radioisotope-tagged neurotransmitters into their food, to give them a terminal case of brain cancer is not obvious. The other problem Liara has is to cover up any evidence of a change in power.

Addendum - Earlier there was a question of what appearance we prefer for Liara. I like her LoTSB appearnce the best. An asari with pink lips makes absolutely zero sense - their blood is purple, there's no reason why their lips would be pink. I've been replaying ME1 and it's like they wanted to make her look as human as possible. I prefer the LoTSB appearance since she looks more alien. Although I wish they got rid of her eyebrows. Looking at her ME1 face, it bugs me that an asari has pink lips + eyebrows. Seems like BioWare was worried that nobody would go for her if they made her too alien. Reminds me with the interview with the art department as they were designing Thane. They wanted him to be an alien, however, they were concerned about making him 'too' alien.

Okay, that thought just depressed me. >.> Liara planning for life without Shepard before their life together has truly begun? That's kind of sad. But also... necessary. D: 

I just wanted to say I totally agree with your thoughts on her appearance. The eyebrows always bothered me too. Does she pencil those on every day or something? Other asari don't appear to have them. It's fairly obvious, as you say, as to why she has them but I think she'd look better without them. So I don't see the issue. The asari already look very close to human anyway. I'm surprised they didn't add ears as well. >.>

I definitely prefer her look in LotSB, on a few different levels. As I mentioned above, I just played through the DLC again on a different playthrough and, is it just me, or does Liara have nice legs?  The armour she wears is very flattering. Ahem. The blue lips definitely makes more sense as well. The pink didn't look right at all.

[TheMarshal]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Also, we don't know that pre-LoTSB Liara was working with anything beyond local Illium intellgence.

Losing the Shadow Broker would disrupt the galactic balance of power. The SB is a necessary counterweight to the Salarian STG/Intelligence services.

I expect that Shepard is going to handle security/wetwork for Liara. Liara's expertise is in analysis, which is generally the most valuable skill out there. Shepard has military expertise, which will help Liara deal with military/special forces information. However, Shepard's characterization isn't particularly academic - Shepard can understand troop formations and the like, but I doubt she's up to understanding large-scale political and economic movements.

Keep in mind that Liara is planning for the next several centuries. As much as she cares about Shepard, Shepard has about 120 years left (plus minus 2 standard deviations). Feron is even worse - according to the ME wiki, Drell only live for around 85 years. Feron and Shepard can handle intelligence gathering and wetwork, however, analysis is really what the Shadow Broker does and that's something Liara has to do for herself.

I hope Liara knows some statistics. If she's going to have to assassinate someone who's onto her trail, I'm hoping that she understands how to manage 'information leaks'. Shooting someone in the head is obvious. Slipping some radioisotope-tagged neurotransmitters into their food, to give them a terminal case of brain cancer is not obvious. The other problem Liara has is to cover up any evidence of a change in power.

Pre-LotSB Liara at least had SOME idea of the galaxy outside of Illium.  If Shepard was getting 'friendly' with someone of her crew, she knows about it.  And of course, she's chasing down the Shadow Broker, not just trying to make a living as an IB, so I doubt she'd limit herself to just the goings-on of Nos Astra.

I imagine she may make a few stumbles and have a couple of 'near misses' in her early time as the Shadow Broker.  I doubt she'll attempt anything as obvious as an assassination, simply because it wouldn't be pertinent to do so, given the imminent Reaper invasion.

I also don't necessarily see Shepard running the security for the SB, but maybe that's 'cause I subconsciously don't want one of them working for the other.  ::shrug::

[Centauri2002]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Benezia has eyebrows, could explain why Liara does.

I don't know why but that made me laugh. >.>

Eyebrows are a rare trait inherited through certain asari bloodlines... 

[TheMarshal]

I don't mind her eyebrows. Most other asari have some sort of 'eyebrow', even though it's more in-line with the rest of their markings than Liara's.

[Centauri2002]

The eyebrows certainly don't make her look bad. The facial markings, I suppose, is a good way for the designers to get around having to put in eyebrows for that less-than-alien look.

I have another question: I've been inspecting different asari I've come across in the game. A lot of them don't have markings. I know markings usually denote a particular father species but does anyone have any idea if these are consistent traits? And are all asari without markings of some kind pureblood? I don't think that's the case but I'd like to hear the general consensus.

[emmanuelsieyes]

Most of the asari use a really generic facial texture. Totally blue, same colour, no markings. The 'named' asari tend to have some sort of facial markings. However, it is likely that Tela Vasir facial stripes indicate the asari is of mixed origin. Samara, Liara, and the pureblood asari on Illium do not have facial markings. That's probably how everyone knew Liara was pureblood.

I don't mean Liara would be keeping Shepard on retainer -- however, Shepard is likely to work with Liara. Shepard has a better understanding of the military than Liara.

Regarding assassinations. I don't expect Liara to start running around killing government officials. However, the ending of LoTSB states outright that Cerberus knows Liara is the new shadow broker. I'm hoping we'll have the option to kill the Illusive Man in ME3 so that I can eliminate the last information leak regarding Liara. Furthermore, the ability to take over Cerberus would be a nice Renegade option (obviously, my Shepard would just disband it after taking their information gathered). The Illusive Man is pissed at my Shepard for blowing the collector base, and he knows about Shepard/Liara. I expect that EDI/the quantum entanglement communicator have enough data in them so that I can hunt down and kill the illusive man. However, if not, apparently Cerberus gets heavily damaged in one of the books, so I'm hoping TIM won't be an imminent threat.

[Nerdage]

I doubt the Illusive Man's going to be an immediate threat while the reapers are still coming, he's not that stupid, wouldn't be surprised if he used to confusion to sneak some agents around though. An ME3 plot where you get to choose who to back, Cerberus or Liara, could be pretty cool but it would be a little awkward mid-'reaper invasion', when really everyone ought to be working together.

Regarding the markings, if there were a pattern behind it I don't know why they wouldn't have told us in-game by now, in a codex probably, or perhaps when Liara talks about purebloods in ME1. I don't know why they'd go to the effort of working it all out then hiding it from the player.

Modifié par nerdage, 05 avril 2011 - 12:53 .

[JiGsAw2453]

centauri2002 wrote...

The eyebrows certainly don't make her look bad. The facial markings, I suppose, is a good way for the designers to get around having to put in eyebrows for that less-than-alien look.

I have another question: I've been inspecting different asari I've come across in the game. A lot of them don't have markings. I know markings usually denote a particular father species but does anyone have any idea if these are consistent traits? And are all asari without markings of some kind pureblood? I don't think that's the case but I'd like to hear the general consensus.

I think it's just BioWare being lazy and not being bothered to put markings on more asari :3

[JiGsAw2453]

nerdage wrote...

I doubt the Illusive Man's going to be an immediate threat while the reapers are still coming, he's not that stupid, wouldn't be surprised if he used to confusion to sneak some agents around though. An ME3 plot where you get to choose who to back, Cerberus or Liara, could be pretty cool but it would be a little awkward mid-'reaper invasion', when really everyone ought to be working together.

Regarding the markings, if there were a pattern behind it I don't know why they wouldn't have told us in-game by now, in a codex probably, or perhaps when Liara talks about purebloods in ME1. I don't know why they'd go to the effort of working it all out then hiding it from the player.

"I will never work with Cerberus!" haha

[Centauri2002]

nerdage wrote...

I doubt the Illusive Man's going to be an immediate threat while the reapers are still coming, he's not that stupid, wouldn't be surprised if he used to confusion to sneak some agents around though. An ME3 plot where you get to choose who to back, Cerberus or Liara, could be pretty cool but it would be a little awkward mid-'reaper invasion', when really everyone ought to be working together.

Regarding the markings, if there were a pattern behind it I don't know why they wouldn't have told us in-game by now, in a codex probably, or perhaps when Liara talks about purebloods in ME1. I don't know why they'd go to the effort of working it all out then hiding it from the player.

Let's face it, they didn't put a huge amount of thought into the asari. "Blue alien babes? Check! Okay, we'll work from there." So now we have all these little traits in the ME universe and no real answers as to why they're there. Still, there must be some reason why some asari have markings and others don't. Questions like this pester me. >.>

[JiGsAw2453]

centauri2002 wrote...

nerdage wrote...

I doubt the Illusive Man's going to be an immediate threat while the reapers are still coming, he's not that stupid, wouldn't be surprised if he used to confusion to sneak some agents around though. An ME3 plot where you get to choose who to back, Cerberus or Liara, could be pretty cool but it would be a little awkward mid-'reaper invasion', when really everyone ought to be working together.

Regarding the markings, if there were a pattern behind it I don't know why they wouldn't have told us in-game by now, in a codex probably, or perhaps when Liara talks about purebloods in ME1. I don't know why they'd go to the effort of working it all out then hiding it from the player.

Let's face it, they didn't put a huge amount of thought into the asari. "Blue alien babes? Check! Okay, we'll work from there." So now we have all these little traits in the ME universe and no real answers as to why they're there. Still, there must be some reason why
some asari have markings and others don't. Questions like this pester me. >.>

Haha too true :3

I think it was just to create some variation between different asari.