8541 réponses à ce sujet

[emmanuelsieyes]

centauri2002 wrote...

nerdage wrote...

I doubt the Illusive Man's going to be an immediate threat while the reapers are still coming, he's not that stupid, wouldn't be surprised if he used to confusion to sneak some agents around though. An ME3 plot where you get to choose who to back, Cerberus or Liara, could be pretty cool but it would be a little awkward mid-'reaper invasion', when really everyone ought to be working together.

Regarding the markings, if there were a pattern behind it I don't know why they wouldn't have told us in-game by now, in a codex probably, or perhaps when Liara talks about purebloods in ME1. I don't know why they'd go to the effort of working it all out then hiding it from the player.

Let's face it, they didn't put a huge amount of thought into the asari. "Blue alien babes? Check! Okay, we'll work from there." So now we have all these little traits in the ME universe and no real answers as to why they're there. Still, there must be some reason why some asari have markings and others don't. Questions like this pester me. >.>

Basically, my solution to this is to just ignore everything in the Codex
about the Asari (since it's basically blatant fanservice for my fellow
young male gamers (not that it didn't work)).

-Asari are asexual. They look female because as it turns out, breastmilk is really good for feeding babies. Each asari is capable of producing a child without outside intervention. However, the melding process acts as an enabler for the pregnancy (melding releases certain hormones necessary to start the mitosis process).
-Thessia was hit by a highly-eezo rich asteroid before the Asari started to develop. High atmosphereric concentrations of element zero caused the asari to develop a tolerance to it. Furthermore, this allowed eezo nodules to develop in the asari body, thus explaining the 'natural biotics'. Asari born off world are injected with eezo to develop the biotic potential. Obviously eezo cannot form inside the mothers womb, since eezo formation is a nuclear reaction. Nuclear reactions are generally incompatible with biological life.
-Tolerance to eezo explains why the asari are capable of advanced cellular regeneration. Thus the long lifespan.
-I have made a strong conscious effort to ignore the fact that melding with species such as the krogan is impossible - their thick skin would prevent the asari from tapping into the krogan nervous system. Unless she was to pierce the krogan's vein, as the krogan circulatory system is also the nervous system.
-Asari 'mindsex' is electrochemical in nature - the asari are capable of generating electric pulses. Their skin can secrete a conductive mixture of dimethyl sulfoxide and neurotransmitters that facilitates neural interaction.

I also have theories on how male human / asari sex would work however I think that this is highly irrelevant to the discussion at hand (I believe the forum rules prohibit me from going into detail).

Disclaimer: My expertise is in physics and electrical engineering, not Biology.

[TheMarshal]

I imagine that the asari evolved from some form of aquatic parasite, given the nature of their reproductive methods. The eezo-rich asteroid causing a mass mutations (long-life, biotic-enabled, etc.) makes sense, though why would it have affected only the asari is beyond me. Perhaps there are other biotic-enabled animals native to Thessia that we aren't aware of?

As for many asari not having markings - many asari (that we've seen) don't even have NAMES, so I doubt the developers/artists could be bothered to come up with anything beyond a generic facial texture which they could color-swap for the unnamed asari.

[OmegaBlue0231]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...


Basically, my solution to this is to just ignore everything in the Codex
about the Asari (since it's basically blatant fanservice for my fellow
young male gamers (not that it didn't work)).

-Asari are asexual. They look female because as it turns out, breastmilk is really good for feeding babies. Each asari is capable of producing a child without outside intervention. However, the melding process acts as an enabler for the pregnancy (melding releases certain hormones necessary to start the mitosis process).
-Thessia was hit by a highly-eezo rich asteroid before the Asari started to develop. High atmosphereric concentrations of element zero caused the asari to develop a tolerance to it. Furthermore, this allowed eezo nodules to develop in the asari body, thus explaining the 'natural biotics'. Asari born off world are injected with eezo to develop the biotic potential. Obviously eezo cannot form inside the mothers womb, since eezo formation is a nuclear reaction. Nuclear reactions are generally incompatible with biological life.
-Tolerance to eezo explains why the asari are capable of advanced cellular regeneration. Thus the long lifespan.
-I have made a strong conscious effort to ignore the fact that melding with species such as the krogan is impossible - their thick skin would prevent the asari from tapping into the krogan nervous system. Unless she was to pierce the krogan's vein, as the krogan circulatory system is also the nervous system.
-Asari 'mindsex' is electrochemical in nature - the asari are capable of generating electric pulses. Their skin can secrete a conductive mixture of dimethyl sulfoxide and neurotransmitters that facilitates neural interaction.

I also have theories on how male human / asari sex would work however I think that this is highly irrelevant to the discussion at hand (I believe the forum rules prohibit me from going into detail).

Disclaimer: My expertise is in physics and electrical engineering, not Biology.

Good explinations, and they're likely true.

The first one about them looking female because any Asari can give birth and would need milk is pretty much a given. Also I think the game mentions the 'father' acts as a randomizer of the DNA and not really a donor of genetic material.

[kumquats]

Good thinking. But what has asexuality to do with gender?
I thought the Asari like it?

[TheMarshal]

I think they tend to use 'gender' and 'sex' interchangeably. 'Sex' is a biological distinction, whereas 'gender' is a social construct, usually having to do with stereotypes on the basis of sex.

[ScorpSt]

I have a problem believing that Asari have always reproduced in their current fashion. Even if we ignore the melding and assume that Asari could conceive a child without it, that still causes the problem that it is, as far as I know, impossible for a race to reach a population the size that the Asari have reached without any means of sexual reproduction. Even if their race did come about in this manner, they would have had to evolve from a single being in order to be truly called a race. This would mean that all Asari would have to be rather homogenous looking in order for this theory to be plausible.

Based on this evidence, I must assume that Asari were, at one point, capable of sexual reproduction. This means that either the Asari were hermaphroditic (unlikely as they would still be today), or there were once Male Asari.

Of course the obvious question is, if there were Male Asari, why aren't there any now and why is there no evidence of them? The answer to part one is simple, they were bred out of existence. The answer to part two is more complex. The disapearance of the Male Asari might simply be atributed to cultural shift. In the absence of males, future Asari simply considered any historicaly Male Asari to be the same as them. There may have been very little sexual dimorphism between the two making it difficult to identify gender based on skeletons. Males may have also disapeared before the invention of gender-specific pronouns, which means that no one would have been able to determine if they were Male in the first place.

As far as evidence of Male Asari, I would have to point to the Ardat-Yakshi. While some of them claim that they are the "future of the Asari", I find it more likely that they are a genetic throwback to when Male Asari existed and the Asari race was starting to develope Biotic and psycic abilities. The Ardat-Yakshi were the most affected by exposure to Element Zero, causing them to be able to weaponize their Biotic abilities. This came at a cost though. Ardat-Yakshi were incapable of bearing children asexually. While it is claimed today that these Asari are sterile, they would have died out not long after their emergence had that been the case. I find it highly likely that Ardat-Yakshi were capable of reproducing with Male Asari. Offspring of Ardat-Yakshi were carriers for Ardat-Yakshi, but not typically Ardat-Yakshi themselves. Male offspring mixed with other Asari who likely did so because they believed their children would become more powerful biotics. Eventually though, most if not all Asari became biotics and carriers for the Ardat-Yakshi gene, making the Male Asari obsolete.

To sum up, Asari once participated in sexual reproduction which increased the size of their population levels where they could sustain themselves through asexual reproduction. Male Asari once existed but were bred at a time out before their existance could be believed by future generations, and the evidence of their existence is the Ardat-Yakshi.

Disclaimer: I am a computer programmer and writer (not for BioWare, though I'd like to be), not a biologist, though I do sometimes study genetics in my free time.

[Centauri2002]

I can't really say much on the reproductive nature of the asari since I'm no geneticist or biologist. However, the asari aren't asexual. Even though they create two copies of their DNA when reproducing, they still require another participant to randomise one of the strands. I don't think there's been an example of an asari reproducing without a mate.

Fiddles, your question is rather interesting. It's hard to answer too, as we have very human mindsets when looking at time. The asari have the 'long-view', particularly the elder members of society, so it's quite possible things like preparing a meal or tasks that don't take very long aren't very meaningful. That said, I think the asari have a larger view on things, so if that task is a step towards something bigger down the road, it might be thought of as meaningful. Matriarchs in particular are known to make cryptic decisions that may not bear fruit for decades. That's not that relevant to your question though. >.> That said, they still have religious ritual so they have to take some form of meaning from small acts.

Modifié par centauri2002, 05 avril 2011 - 09:59 .

[Centauri2002]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Thanks

The Asari are certainly very philosophical about life in general, not that it distances them from it just that it's seems to be a genuinely different perspective. Would this lead to most Asari never rushing anywhere? Specific dates and times might retain significance for the emphasis others impose on them but would it be different between Asari? 

What's the cryptic matriarch decision you're thinking of?

I think it's dependent on their stage in life, actually. Maidens feel restless and curious so I think they're more likely to feel the need to rush than matrons or matriarchs. Matriarchs would, obviously, take things slower. It's hard to say how they'd interact without the influence of other species upon them since we haven't seen an example of it. They're very communal so they tend to take on aspects of the other cultures they're with, it seems.

I wasn't thinking of a specific example. I think I read that in a codex entry for the asari. It just said that, because of their long-view, matriarchs can often make decisions that seem unfathomable to younger asari or other species, but come to fruition years down the line. Something like that. >.>

[Centauri2002]

Fiddles_stix wrote...
I tentatively agree with the 3 stages argument but does this change the meaning behind short and long term goals? Or say travelling? Does several hours travelling become irrelevant or annoying because it's just more time spent not doing something productive?

*Edit just noticed these questions aren't really answerable in any conclusive manner but speculation would be helpful

Since we're merely speculating... shouldn't it be dependent on the individual, rather than a species-wide outlook? Take, for example, a six hour train ride. One person might find this an enjoyable way of spending six hours as it gives them some relative alone-time, they can watch the scenery, perhaps get some work done. On the other hand, another person might think that it's a complete waste of time and they could be using those six hours to do something vastly more productive. This is a human perspective, of course, but it does show the difference in opinions. I think the need to rush around would be somewhat tempered by the asari lifespan, though. Other than that, it's hard to say.

Easier question please! 

Modifié par centauri2002, 05 avril 2011 - 11:54 .

[Centauri2002]

 Since Fiddles refuses to come up with easier questions, I will! 

We don't see a lot of interaction between Liara and the rest of the crew. How do you see her relating to the other members, both in ME1 and ME2? I'm particularly interested on how people saw that short trip between Illium and the Shadow Broker's base going in LotSB. Did she avoid contact with them? It's a small ship, she'd had to have run into a few of them. Would she have chatted with Garrus and Tali? How about Joker? Would the newer members be wary of her?

I'd like to see what people think. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

centauri2002 wrote...
 I'm particularly interested on how people saw that short trip between Illium and the Shadow Broker's base going in LotSB. Did she avoid contact with them? It's a small ship, she'd had to have run into a few of them. Would she have chatted with Garrus and Tali? How about Joker? Would the newer members be wary of her?

I'd like to see what people think. 

I don't know how much time the trip for Illum to Halgalaz took, I guess a few hours.

I would think she was all buisness during that moment, not bothering to talk to people, or even respond with a "Hi!". I would imagine her just being restless, doing nothing but preparing herself to rescue Feron.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 05 avril 2011 - 01:00 .

[IndigoWolfe]

I think she would at least acknowledge other people who came up to her, for politeness's sake. But I'd agree with Lizard; she was probably restless, pacing about the hangar before they arrived.

She didn't go through the entire ship until afterwards, as indicated by her response to "Did you enjoy the tour?".

[IndigoWolfe]

centauri2002 wrote...

I can't really say much on the reproductive nature of the asari since I'm no geneticist or biologist. However, the asari aren't asexual. Even though they create two copies of their DNA when reproducing, they still require another participant to randomise one of the strands. I don't think there's been an example of an asari reproducing without a mate.

According to Erinya on Illium, an asari could use a radiation treatment to provide the randomization of the second DNA strand, as I recall.

[Centauri2002]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

According to Erinya on Illium, an asari could use a radiation treatment to provide the randomization of the second DNA strand, as I recall.

I guess that could be considered their form of IVF. 

Thanks for the input on the LotSB trip, you two. Any thoughts on how her other interactions with crew members would go? Would there be particular characters that she'd get on with above others? What would happen to squad dynamics if she joined the crew after the end of ME2?

[IndigoWolfe]

centauri2002 wrote...

 Any thoughts on how her other interactions with crew members would go? Would there be particular characters that she'd get on with above others?

Well, I think she and Samara would have mutual respect, but the latter would probably avoid getting to know Liara too well, in case she learned of any crimes that Liara committed during her time as an information broker.

Liara and Garrus would also have a good amount of respect for each other, with each of them knowing how and when to take matters into your own hands and pursuing them to their apex and completion. They would probably get along well too.

I'm not sure how Tali would get on with Liara. I can see Tali being rather off-put by her due to her current profession. If Shepard were male and single, perhaps there would be some veiled hostility, especially if Shepard invited Liara up for drinks? Or perhaps jealousy if Shepard were romantically involved? I'm don't consider myself an expert on her character.

She would be facinated by Legion.

She would enjoy Kasumi's lighthearted company, they would have a good time. And she's already worked with her in the past.

Liara and Mordin would have many an involved discussion which Shepard would feel entirely out-of-the-loop listening too.

She would envy Thane's perfect drell memory. She would appreciate his desire to attone for past misdeeds and his desire to help his son. She'd also pity him.

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 05 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

centauri2002 wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

According to Erinya on Illium, an asari could use a radiation treatment to provide the randomization of the second DNA strand, as I recall.

I guess that could be considered their form of IVF. 

Thanks for the input on the LotSB trip, you two. Any thoughts on how her other interactions with crew members would go? Would there be particular characters that she'd get on with above others? What would happen to squad dynamics if she joined the crew after the end of ME2?

How she would interact with the other crewmembers on a daily basis?

I think she become great best-friends-for-life with Kasumi, Tali, Mordin, Ashley/Kaidan.

She would get along well with Miranda, Garrus, Samara, Jacob. In the "respected co-worker" sense.

I don't think she would be a huge fan of Zaeed due to his violent behavior. She might be slightly puzzled by Grunt until she realises he's just a kid.

Legion would begin to stalk Liara, due to her proximity to Shepard-Commander, curious as to why they are together!

[IndigoWolfe]

centauri2002 wrote...

I guess that could be considered their form of IVF. 

Hmm, I don't think this would be an accurate paralell. Even IVF necessitates two distinct biological donors, the method of delivery is just different.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Liara and Mordin would have many an involved discussion which Shepard would feel entirely out-of-the-loop listening too.

We really need a dialog like that in ME3. Althrough Liara is a not a scientist in the sense like Mordin, Liara is an archelogist and does not focus on things like physics, biology, chemistry etc.

[IndigoWolfe]

Lizardviking wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Liara and Mordin would have many an involved discussion which Shepard would feel entirely out-of-the-loop listening too.

We really need a dialog like that in ME3. Althrough Liara is a not a scientist in the sense like Mordin, Liara is an archelogist and does not focus on things like physics, biology, chemistry etc.

But Mordin does have a mental apptitude in an acedemic sense for cuture and the development of a species, something that an archeologist can also offer opinions, theories and views on.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

But Mordin does have a mental apptitude in an acedemic sense for cuture and the development of a species, something that an archeologist can also offer opinions, theories and views on.

True. Completely forgot Mordin's interest in culture.

[Centauri2002]

I don't think Liara would get on too well with Miranda actually. From what I saw in the comics, they worked together reluctantly and out of necessity but there was a kind of hostility brewing beneath the surface. I'm sure she'd be grateful to Miranda for helping bring Shepard back but I can see some tension forming there.

I get the impression Kasumi and Liara would have a fun dynamic. I'm pretty sure Kasumi would try to tease Liara whenever she got the chance, concerning her relationship with Shepard anyway. Although, I'm sure the connection between Shepard and Liara would be a painful reminder of what she, herself, has lost. But, I see her using humour to cover that up.

Now I want to see this. >.>

@Indigo: I wasn't meaning it in a perfect parallel sense, I was just trying to apply my limited human understanding to it.

Modifié par centauri2002, 05 avril 2011 - 03:15 .

[kumquats]

TheMarshal wrote...

I think they tend to use 'gender' and 'sex' interchangeably. 'Sex' is a biological distinction, whereas 'gender' is a social construct, usually having to do with stereotypes on the basis of sex.

I get it now. I know of asexual people, but I think everyone was talking about asexual reproduction.
I was a little confused