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[PMC65]

azarhal wrote...

And the only thing she didn't do with Sekat is tell him the data was about the ShadowBroker. Not knowing isn't what killed him in the end.

Liara admits that she put Sekat at high-risk and even after she knows the outcome would do it again to get the shadow broker ... Shepard has done far worse but for some reason that conversation really stopped the show for me. It pulled back the curtain and showed the darker side of Liara.

Liara is still young and tries to make her motivations honorable but they aren't. Not that they are evil but they aren't about the greater good. They are about her, like any good teenager.

She gave Shepard to Cerberus because the galaxy needed the hero to survive? That was what she told herself but admittted that it was really because she wanted Shep back. That was her shame, it wasn't about saving the galaxy, it was about her own needs and desire.

Killing the Shadow Broker to stop his evilness and for trying to sell her friend? Not buying it. It wasn't even really about Shepard or Feron. My theory is that his sin was that he had made her feel stupid, weak and small. She simply wanted revenge and I could almost see the gleam in her eye when she delivered the coup-fourré that enraged the SB. My Shep also saw a side of Liara that said if they ever got into a heated argument she would have the ability to go for the jugular. Shepard has a sticky note that reads "No verbal sparring with Li - will get mental ass kicked". 

These things don't make her bad but they also don't make her sweet and innocent. Liara rages against the machine in her own passive/aggressive way and without her mother to help guide her this could turn ugly. My Shepard sees this and is worried. Worried because while Shep can mentor Garrus knows that she can't mentor Liara. Liara needs someone like a Benezia with her wisdom, experience and just plain Asari ways.

[Hekate]

I gotta say, I never noticed it before but today I played LoTSB and I noticed that her lips before the mission are pinkish/blue and her lips during are dark blue. Gotta say, like them alot better dark blue, glad they changed them to that. Also glad that it seems they stay dark blue in ME3 as they are so in the GI scans.

[Robhuzz]

Amieera wrote...

I gotta say, I never noticed it before but today I played LoTSB and I noticed that her lips before the mission are pinkish/blue and her lips during are dark blue. Gotta say, like them alot better dark blue, glad they changed them to that. Also glad that it seems they stay dark blue in ME3 as they are so in the GI scans.

True, they gave her a totally different look for her dlc and it looks like they'll be using Liara's Lotsb model for ME3 as well. Hope that includes the dark lipstick, it really suits her. 

[Centauri2002]

I also like what they did for her skin. It has a rougher looking texture. I'm not sure rougher is the right word, actually. But it just looks so much more detailed. I approve. :3

[Hekate]

Hey, does anyone here have a larger version of this Liara image.

It's from the Dark Horse Digital Comics app thing, It looks like such an awesome are but I can't find it anywhere.

[Centauri2002]

Amieera, I couldn't find a larger version of that image either. I have everything from Redemption but not that. D:

[Robhuzz]

That image looks rather weird, it's as if Liara is using winter's grasp.

@Amieera
Love your signature, I fully support that one

[TheMarshal]

Re: Liara's flaws, I've been wondering about this for a while, too, as in some of my story planning she's coming across almost Mary Sue-ish, which I know isn't the kind of person she is at all. I like centauri's idea of her being very single-minded when it comes to things. It helps her when she needs to be focused on something, like tracking down the Shadow Broker, but it also gets her into trouble, like not noticing her assistant is trying to kill her. In that unwritten story that I have (the one with the flirty asari OC), Nyxeris uses that single-mindedness to sort of 'steer' Liara into isolating herself from Shepard, feeding off of her anxiety over the events of Redemption, etc.

[MGIII]

She's about the only character that showed growth (or at least change) in the entire series.

[Centauri2002]

Aye, she does change quite a bit, certainly in comparison with other characters. Some people will argue it's not for the best but I disagree. It's definitely more realistic. After everything she's been through and the time that's passed, it's unlikely she would stay the same. I'm curious as to how both Kaiden and Ashley will have changed.

We agree on Liara's focus then but what other flaws do you see her as having?

[Centauri2002]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Could you class naivety or social awkwardness as flaws? Personally they're part of what make her endearing so I don't consider them flaws. Same applies to her hardening in ME2 she's become ruthless and detached but reuniting with Shep brings her back. Why are you looking for flaws in Liara's character?

I'm not looking for flaws, per se, but rather looking to see how people view her flaws. I have my own idea of them. It's easy to look at a character's strengths but their flaws are what make them relatable. I have to look at every aspect of a character in order to write them properly. As it stands, Liara doesn't have that many but a different perspective might make me see things differently. 

[Andoth]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Same applies to her hardening in ME2 she's become ruthless and detached but reuniting with Shep brings her back. Why are you looking for flaws in Liara's character?

It's almost as if she put up an emotional block, trying to use reason to rule her actions as opposed to her feelings.  During LotSB, she tries to rationalize using people to get what she wants, the same as the Shadow Broker, saying that she'd do it again if she had to. This may make her seem cold and distant, but I think it's what she believes Shepard or her mother would do in the same situation. 

There are a couple places where Shepard tries to break through this block, the Azure is a great series of scenes where she almost gets through a few times, but each time Liara catches herself and puts the mask back on.  It almost feels, to me, that LotSB isn't about making Liara the Shadow Broker, but about saving her from becoming what she's fighting against.

Modifié par Andoth, 18 avril 2011 - 01:34 .

[Centauri2002]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Liara is aware of how she's changed in the years Shepard was dead. There are several small comments she makes in her office that hint at this. "For better or for worse" being one of them. I think she believes it's the only way to achieve her goals. She needs to be as ruthless as those she is hunting.

I think she's still the same character, underneath it all at her core, she just has added layers. In order to deal with everything that's going on around her, she's had to build up defences (even to Shepard it seems) and that shows in ME2. She's merely adapted to the situation. And the asari are a fairly adaptable race, after all. But we can still see her old self shine through at the end of LotSB and it's probably something she's more likely to reveal only around Shepard.

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

Actually, I'm pretty sure Liara is aware of how she's changed in the years Shepard was dead. There are several small comments she makes in her office that hint at this. "For better or for worse" being one of them. I think she believes it's the only way to achieve her goals. She needs to be as ruthless as those she is hunting.

I think she's still the same character, underneath it all at her core, she just has added layers. In order to deal with everything that's going on around her, she's had to build up defences (even to Shepard it seems) and that shows in ME2. She's merely adapted to the situation. And the asari are a fairly adaptable race, after all. But we can still see her old self shine through at the end of LotSB and it's probably something she's more likely to reveal only around Shepard.

I felt the same way about Liara being away of how she's changed in the last two years. Indeed she feels she needs to be ruthless at that point. If you don't show them you're strong and up for it, they're going to walk all over you. This seems to be what Liara has in mind.

In my opinion Liara already shows a little of the real Liara just before she walks out of her office to head to her appartment. After thanking Liara for saving his/her life (can only be done if you have not asked Liara about her anger at the shadow broker earlier) she responds with "I did not know who you would be when you came back...if you'd feel..."

To me this seems to be the first hint at Liara's real personality. Or the first time in ME2 where she dropped the emotional barrier she put up, if only for a moment.

[Centauri2002]

Robhuzz wrote...

I felt the same way about Liara being away of how she's changed in the last two years. Indeed she feels she needs to be ruthless at that point. If you don't show them you're strong and up for it, they're going to walk all over you. This seems to be what Liara has in mind.

In my opinion Liara already shows a little of the real Liara just before she walks out of her office to head to her appartment. After thanking Liara for saving his/her life (can only be done if you have not asked Liara about her anger at the shadow broker earlier) she responds with "I did not know who you would be when you came back...if you'd feel..."

To me this seems to be the first hint at Liara's real personality. Or the first time in ME2 where she dropped the emotional barrier she put up, if only for a moment.

Aye, I noticed that line too. I loved all the little half-finished sentences she started off with in ME2 and LotSB. There was obviously so much she hoped for but never dared to allow herself to think or say aloud. It just amped up the tension wonderfully.

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I felt the same way about Liara being away of how she's changed in the last two years. Indeed she feels she needs to be ruthless at that point. If you don't show them you're strong and up for it, they're going to walk all over you. This seems to be what Liara has in mind.

In my opinion Liara already shows a little of the real Liara just before she walks out of her office to head to her appartment. After thanking Liara for saving his/her life (can only be done if you have not asked Liara about her anger at the shadow broker earlier) she responds with "I did not know who you would be when you came back...if you'd feel..."

To me this seems to be the first hint at Liara's real personality. Or the first time in ME2 where she dropped the emotional barrier she put up, if only for a moment.

Aye, I noticed that line too. I loved all the little half-finished sentences she started off with in ME2 and LotSB. There was obviously so much she hoped for but never dared to allow herself to think or say aloud. It just amped up the tension wonderfully.

True, it was as if she was trying to act all tough and renegade, like flaying a person with her mind. But when it comes to Shepard she can't help drop it for a moment. Resulting in half spoken sentences that just sound very caring and hopefull, before Liara basicly stopping herself from thinking such things. She then reverts to her more serious, businesslike personality. In this case quickly changing the subject from her own feelings to Feron's rescue.

[IndigoWolfe]

Have a Liara.

[IndigoWolfe]

And now in high resolution!

[Centauri2002]

Maybe it's the shadowing there, but her face looks kind of dirty in the second picture. >.>

Other than that...

ETA: I can tell that's a different body though, Liara has nicer legs. :3

Modifié par centauri2002, 18 avril 2011 - 09:06 .

[TheMarshal]

I was going to say that the second picture makes her look a little more... 'rugged'. Not sure exactly what it is, though. Maybe it's the darkness of the skin tone, or perhaps it looks like her jawbone is a little broader?

At least, compared to...

[MGIII]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Andoth wrote...

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Same applies to her hardening in ME2 she's become ruthless and detached but reuniting with Shep brings her back. Why are you looking for flaws in Liara's character?

It's almost as if she put up an emotional block, trying to use reason to rule her actions as opposed to her feelings.  During LotSB, she tries to rationalize using people to get what she wants, the same as the Shadow Broker, saying that she'd do it again if she had to. This may make her seem cold and distant, but I think it's what she believes Shepard or her mother would do in the same situation. 

There are a couple places where Shepard tries to break through this block, the Azure is a great series of scenes where she almost gets through a few times, but each time Liara catches herself and puts the mask back on.  It almost feels, to me, that LotSB isn't about making Liara the Shadow Broker, but about saving her from becoming what she's fighting against.

Couldn't agree more
LotSB was a great arc for Liara. She goes from being very calculating and all business but by the end you see glimpses of her old self but in a way that shows she has changed. It's this personal growth that makes her one of my favourite characters.

I've been wondering for a while, should Liara be killable in ME3?

I think they're making a lot of characters killable in ME3. In that GI article, a developer (Hudson, I think) spoke in length about how that dynamic of the suicide mission was a success and how they were going to incorporate it throughout ME3 instead of just one time at the end.

So, **** yes, I'm ready for branching story/mission paths!