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[Centauri2002]

JiGsAw2453 wrote...

Mummy*

EDIT: Any more track ideas for my next Liara Tribute?

If she were British then yes, but she's not.

I'm still thinking about it. >.>

[TheMarshal]

centauri2002 wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

mr_luga wrote...

*Sigh* This thread is making me depressed, it seems like Liara is a female only love interest or something since everyone keeps talking about "She" being with Liara and everyone agreeing.. <.<; My shepard is a GUY thanks. My shepard dont want to be a grand mother <.<

Arghargrhgr! I need some more man shepards in here, I feel alone

Agreed,  no disrespect to the FemShep players of course, I have a similar problem with fanfictions when people go out of their way and give the MaleShep's first names.

I based my Canon Shepard of myself, so when I read a Mass Effect fanfiction I like to picture myself as Shepard.

I go out of my way to use Shepard's surname throughout the narrative in my fan fiction and her first name only crops up when absolutely necessary in the dialogue. Of course, my story's still not going to work for you since she's female.

But she's just another character to me, so I don't mind. It's a little strange reading other first names for me too but that's only because I'm used to my Shepard.

When writing a story where the POV is centered around my Shepard, I always use her first name because, well, that's how she thinks of herself.  When it switches to other people's perspectives, though, I maintain the Shepard/Commander/Skipper naming conventions because that's how they refer to Shepard.  Otherwise, I don't bother trying to maintain a 'generic' aura around Shepard in my stories, 'cause I'm writing about my Shepard.

To keep this (barely) on-topic...

Liara wonders whether her and Shepard's daughters will have eyebrows...

We don't know much (if anything) about how asari physical traits are selected based on the father species.  We know that Morinth and Samara are physically virtually identical, and that Liara and Benezia share coloring (lips, eyes, skin) and both have very 'human' eyebrows.  Those are the only mother/daughter pairs that we've seen in-game, and they just so happen to both be purebloods, which doesn't give us much information.

I would imagine that, given that the 'father' species doesn't actually contribute any genetic material to the child, any offspring would retain their mother's coloring completely.  So, if my Alice (a red-head) and Liara had a daughter, there wouldn't be any chance of any red showing up in her coloring.

[TheMarshal]

Also, while confirming that Benezia/Liara had the same eye color, I came across some Benezia concept art:


I pretty strongly prefer this over the cleavage-heavy outfit she wound up wearing in-game.

[JiGsAw2453]

centauri2002 wrote...

If she were British then yes, but she's not.

I'm still thinking about it. >.>

You're British!

Just keep passing on ideas to me, it's a great help.

Modifié par JiGsAw2453, 19 avril 2011 - 06:45 .

[Robhuzz]

TheMarshal wrote...

Also, while confirming that Benezia/Liara had the same eye color, I came across some Benezia concept art:

*Snip picture of benezia concept art*

I pretty strongly prefer this over the cleavage-heavy outfit she wound up wearing in-game.

I agree, this benezia looks way better. With benezia's in game version they just focussed too much on her...well you know. Makes you wonder why they changed benezia that much before they put her in the game.

We don't know much (if anything) about how asari physical traits are selected based on the father species.  We know that Morinth and Samara are physically virtually identical, and that Liara and Benezia share coloring (lips, eyes, skin) and both have very 'human' eyebrows.  Those are the only mother/daughter pairs that we've seen in-game, and they just so happen to both be purebloods, which doesn't give us much information.

I would imagine that, given that the 'father' species doesn't actually contribute any genetic material to the child, any offspring would retain their mother's coloring completely.  So, if my Alice (a red-head) and Liara had a daughter, there wouldn't be any chance of any red showing up in her coloring.

While it's true we haven't seen any mother/daughter pairs in ME besides the two pureblood pairs, we have seen an asari with a batarian father (one of the two asari on illium talking about selling medication) and she didn't look any different from the typical asari. I think it's safe to assume all asari will look like their mothers, with personality traits likely to be caused by being raised by a different race father figure.

[TheMarshal]

Robhuzz wrote...

While it's true we haven't seen any mother/daughter pairs in ME besides the two pureblood pairs, we have seen an asari with a batarian father (one of the two asari on illium talking about selling medication) and she didn't look any different from the typical asari. I think it's safe to assume all asari will look like their mothers, with personality traits likely to be caused by being raised by a different race father figure.

Some people have postulated that certain 'styles' of facial markings (such as the cobblestone appearance of Councilor Tevos or Tela Vasir's more paint-stroke markings) and are based on the father species.  It could be true, but we also don't know whether all of those markings are natural or if asari makeup includes some sort of enhancement/alteration/coverup of existing facial markings.

[Robhuzz]

TheMarshal wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

While it's true we haven't seen any mother/daughter pairs in ME besides the two pureblood pairs, we have seen an asari with a batarian father (one of the two asari on illium talking about selling medication) and she didn't look any different from the typical asari. I think it's safe to assume all asari will look like their mothers, with personality traits likely to be caused by being raised by a different race father figure.

Some people have postulated that certain 'styles' of facial markings (such as the cobblestone appearance of Councilor Tevos or Tela Vasir's more paint-stroke markings) and are based on the father species.  It could be true, but we also don't know whether all of those markings are natural or if asari makeup includes some sort of enhancement/alteration/coverup of existing facial markings.

I've always believed those facial markings to be tattoos of some kind, just like the turians have facial markings painted on. I believe they point back to which clan the turian's family came from before the unification wars, but that's not really the point here is it? I certainly don't think those facial markings are natural. Would be nice to have an option in ME3 to learn a little more about the asari from Liara, including the meaning of those facial markings. But I doubt we'll get the chance.

[Centauri2002]

Robhuzz wrote...

I've always believed those facial markings to be tattoos of some kind, just like the turians have facial markings painted on. I believe they point back to which clan the turian's family came from before the unification wars, but that's not really the point here is it? I certainly don't think those facial markings are natural. Would be nice to have an option in ME3 to learn a little more about the asari from Liara, including the meaning of those facial markings. But I doubt we'll get the chance.

See, this is the problem. They don't give us enough information about the simplest of things! How do they expect us to write fan fiction properly! *shakes fist*

Seriously though, I could see them as either one. Markings would be fine but tattoos have a much more interesting story. Do they symbolise something? Do they tell a story? Or are they just aesthetically pleasing to asari? If that's so, are there tattoos to denote shame? Oh, the possibilities!

[Andoth]

@TheMarshall: Thanks for your Thinking Liara pic! You helped in part of my re-edits to my video with that scene!

Back on topic:

Liara is great!

[TheMarshal]

centauri2002 wrote...

See, this is the problem. They don't give us enough information about the simplest of things! How do they expect us to write fan fiction properly! *shakes fist*

Seriously though, I could see them as either one. Markings would be fine but tattoos have a much more interesting story. Do they symbolise something? Do they tell a story? Or are they just aesthetically pleasing to asari? If that's so, are there tattoos to denote shame? Oh, the possibilities!

Eh, sometimes it's better to not be restricted by established canon.  People come up with some very interesting ideas!

As for facial markings, that one asari on Illium (the one who was being wooed by the krogan) talked about letting her scalp 'go back to its natural color', so obviously there's some alteration going on.

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I've always believed those facial markings to be tattoos of some kind, just like the turians have facial markings painted on. I believe they point back to which clan the turian's family came from before the unification wars, but that's not really the point here is it? I certainly don't think those facial markings are natural. Would be nice to have an option in ME3 to learn a little more about the asari from Liara, including the meaning of those facial markings. But I doubt we'll get the chance.

See, this is the problem. They don't give us enough information about the simplest of things! How do they expect us to write fan fiction properly! *shakes fist*

Seriously though, I could see them as either one. Markings would be fine but tattoos have a much more interesting story. Do they symbolise something? Do they tell a story? Or are they just aesthetically pleasing to asari? If that's so, are there tattoos to denote shame? Oh, the possibilities!

And that is what headcanon and headfiction is for. For turians it's explained that their facial markings have a meaning. Not having those facial markings seems to be insulting and other turians treat them as such. The asari have never been like the turians so I doubt those facial markings have a real meaning. Though you may never know. What you said about aesthetically pleasing to other asari may ring true. It could also be to distinguish asari from eachother. As most asari maidens seem to have roughly the same skin tone as well as facial features, they could apply facial markings to make them look different.

[Centauri2002]

TheMarshal wrote...

Eh, sometimes it's better to not be restricted by established canon.  People come up with some very interesting ideas!

As for facial markings, that one asari on Illium (the one who was being wooed by the krogan) talked about letting her scalp 'go back to its natural color', so obviously there's some alteration going on.

The excessively dramatic first statement was just me being silly. Not to be taken seriously in the slightest. 

I like the freedom to create as I go along in my stories. The only problem with that is not everyone's going to agree with you. But, then, that can lead to some fun debates. In fact, the thought I had on asari marks of dishonour has gotten me thinking about asari treat those of their society who don't conform. We already know they look down on purebloods but they don't seem to be excluded from most parts of the community. They also have the justicars, who are quite harsh in the way they deal with things. They tend to remain within asari space, so it might be reasonable to conclude that the asari are very strict on crime within their own communities. They seem to be more lax on it within the cosmic community though.

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Eh, sometimes it's better to not be restricted by established canon.  People come up with some very interesting ideas!

As for facial markings, that one asari on Illium (the one who was being wooed by the krogan) talked about letting her scalp 'go back to its natural color', so obviously there's some alteration going on.

The excessively dramatic first statement was just me being silly. Not to be taken seriously in the slightest. 

I like the freedom to create as I go along in my stories. The only problem with that is not everyone's going to agree with you. But, then, that can lead to some fun debates. In fact, the thought I had on asari marks of dishonour has gotten me thinking about asari treat those of their society who don't conform. We already know they look down on purebloods but they don't seem to be excluded from most parts of the community. They also have the justicars, who are quite harsh in the way they deal with things. They tend to remain within asari space, so it might be reasonable to conclude that the asari are very strict on crime within their own communities. They seem to be more lax on it within the cosmic community though.

And yet the asari seem to not only condone but even approve of their daughters joining merc bands which are widely regarded as criminal organisations. Not only that but most asari seem to be pacifists as well, except for, of course, the justicars and Matriarch Aethyta (bless her, the asari really need to toughen up, just my opinion though). From the commercials on illium it can be concluded the asari actually do think their appearance is very important, what with the 'by the goddess your scalp looks amazing' commercial advertising some new product it seems asari are as much intend on looking good as humans are.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 19 avril 2011 - 06:24 .

[azarhal]

I always took the Asari marking to be something similar to Mehndi.

[Centauri2002]

Robhuzz wrote...

And yet the asari seem to not only condone but even approve of their daughters joining merc bands which are widely regarded as criminal organisations. Not only that but most asari seem to be pacifists as well, except for, of course, the justicars and Matriarch Aethyta (bless her, the asari really need to toughen up, just my opinion though). From the commercials on illium it can be concluded the asari actually do think their appearance is very important, what with the 'by the goddess your scalp looks amazing' commercial advertising some new product it seems asari are as much intend on looking good as humans are.

Well, now we're moving into the realm of what constitutes as a crime. They're frowned upon by most people but not necessarily by the asari. Then again, there are always going to be differering views within a society, particularly one as far reaching as the asari's. The justicars seem like an old order that hinges on traditional values. Perhaps these values aren't shared by some areas of modern asari society. I can draw a parallel to Ancient Greek society here, actually. Throughout a good portion of their history, they were focused on promoting traditional values, even though their culture was gradually changing and these views didn't necessarily fall in line with modern thinking. The focus on the ideals of friendship and honour, for example, were much more fitting for smaller communities, but once they expanded and colonised, this became harder to maintain. Yet it was continued for a long time for the sake of traditional values. 

Okay, so that wasn't entirely relevant. I think I went off at a tangent there so I hope you got what I was meaning. >.>

Aye, it's clear the asari are very interested in looking good. Some asari, anyway. Liara doesn't seem all that concerned with beautifying herself, she has nefarious brokers to track down and alien invasions to stop! But that might be circumstance. She doesn't strike me as vain though.

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

*snip*
Okay, so that wasn't entirely relevant. I think I went off at a tangent there so I hope you got what I was meaning. >.>

Aye, it's clear the asari are very interested in looking good. Some asari, anyway. Liara doesn't seem all that concerned with beautifying herself, she has nefarious brokers to track down and alien invasions to stop! But that might be circumstance. She doesn't strike me as vain though.

Wasn't too relevant but I did get the meaning. You're right about Liara not being concerned about making herself look good. Even though it did seem to change between ME1 and ME2. Where in ME1 she didn't really get in touch with people, she didn't really care about what she looked like. In ME2, having been around people for a while she suddenly starts to wear at least some make-up. Whether she actually wanted herself to look different or she felt because she had changed on the inside and her outside would need to reflect that, or there's another reason is still open for debate. But it's true Liara was never really concerned with how she looked. How fitting that she turned out to be (in my opinion) the prettiest asari in the ME universe so far<3.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 19 avril 2011 - 06:44 .

[Centauri2002]

Robhuzz wrote...

Wasn't too relevant but I did get the meaning. You're right about Liara not being concerned about making herself look good. Even though it did seem to change between ME1 and ME2. Where in ME1 she didn't really get in touch with people, she didn't really care about what she looked like. In ME2, having been around people for a while she suddenly starts to wear at least some make-up. Whether she actually wanted herself to look different or she felt because she had changed on the inside and her outside would need to reflect that, or there's another reason is still open for debate. But it's true Liara was never really concerned with how she looked. How fitting that she turned out to be (in my opinion) the prettiest asari in the ME universe so far<3.

The reason I picked Greek culture was because 1) They served as an influence for the design of asari culture and 2) I know it. >.>

Anyhoo, ya, Liara is a pretty one indeed! I've seen quite a few people say otherwise, but they are clearly blind.  Then again, I think her shining personality makes her even more attractive. 

[TheMarshal]

Do we think Liara's change in appearance in LotSB is due to a makeup change, a biological change, or a retcon?

Personally, I'm inclined to think it's a retcon for two reasons. The first is that, as I think most of us agree, Liara doesn't seem the type to wear makeup. When we meet her, for example, she's on a remote dig site, so what possible reason could there be for her to be wearing pink lipstick? The second reason is that in LotSB she winds up with the same coloring (blue lips) as her mother, which leads me to believe that it was meant to be that way all along.

[Centauri2002]

TheMarshal wrote...

Do we think Liara's change in appearance in LotSB is due to a makeup change, a biological change, or a retcon?

Personally, I'm inclined to think it's a retcon for two reasons. The first is that, as I think most of us agree, Liara doesn't seem the type to wear makeup. When we meet her, for example, she's on a remote dig site, so what possible reason could there be for her to be wearing pink lipstick? The second reason is that in LotSB she winds up with the same coloring (blue lips) as her mother, which leads me to believe that it was meant to be that way all along.

I'm with you on this one. I never really thought that Liara was wearing make up when I saw her in both Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I think the LotSB change was just BioWare redesigning her to look better for Mass Effect 3. She had better skin texture, better colouring, clearer eyes and more unique markings/freckles.

Okay, so it's not normal for a person's (even an alien's) lip colour to change so, if we must, we can put that down to lipstick. Or maybe it can be explained away as a sign of her aging a little. It doesn't bother me though, I don't require an explanation. All I need to know is that she looks better for it. 

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Wasn't too relevant but I did get the meaning. You're right about Liara not being concerned about making herself look good. Even though it did seem to change between ME1 and ME2. Where in ME1 she didn't really get in touch with people, she didn't really care about what she looked like. In ME2, having been around people for a while she suddenly starts to wear at least some make-up. Whether she actually wanted herself to look different or she felt because she had changed on the inside and her outside would need to reflect that, or there's another reason is still open for debate. But it's true Liara was never really concerned with how she looked. How fitting that she turned out to be (in my opinion) the prettiest asari in the ME universe so far<3.

The reason I picked Greek culture was because 1) They served as an influence for the design of asari culture and 2) I know it. >.>

Anyhoo, ya, Liara is a pretty one indeed! I've seen quite a few people say otherwise, but they are clearly blind.  Then again, I think her shining personality makes her even more attractive. 

People disagreeing on Liara being pretty? They probably have a different Liara in mind, that or they're all talimancers. Seems those people still believe tali is based on a human supermodel. But let's not get into that right, nothing good can come of these accusations.

Liara is just a unique asari, both on the in and outside. But that was obvious since so far she's the only asari NOT dancing in night clubs or fighting in merc bands. I'd like to think that's Aethyta's influence although unless she got some genes from her (which we basicly concluded she doesn't) the only way she could've picked these traits up is by being raised by Aethtyta, which Liara claims was not the case. So... How come Liara is so different from other asari? The appearance is from Benezia, that's fine but... where did her unique personality come from?

All I need to know is that she looks better for it. 

We all agree with that. Let's not give Bioware any ideas for changing her appearance yet again, she's fine as she is now.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 19 avril 2011 - 07:00 .

[Centauri2002]

I'm tempted to say everyone has a unique personality but that's just being pedantic. >.>

It's true that Liara does seem wiser than her years. Perhaps that's Benezia's doing. They may not have had the same view on things, but it's clear Benezia was intelligent and wise. It's hard to say what moulded Liara into the person she was by Mass Effect. I'm sure studying Prothean culture and artifacts had some form of influence on her though.

Yes, no giving BioWare any ideas. Unless... it's to give us more Liara/Shepard screen time. That idea can slip through all it wants!

[TheMarshal]

I imagine that most asari are born to mothers who are in their matron stage of life, not someone who's already an established matriarch like Benezia. Given that, Benezia would have a different personality than someone who was 400-600 years her junior, and that would of course affect the sort of personality traits that Liara picked up as she grew older.

[PMC65]

Why the need for a child with Liara?
Liara is in the Maiden ("Teenage") stage of her life and should be exploring and learning at this time. That is why I think she gives a little laugh when Shep mentions blue babies.
She is about 200+ years from the age of Matron ("nesting") stage so why would Shepard who is a blip in her life leave her 14 & pregnant if you will?

[Robhuzz]

TheMarshal wrote...

I imagine that most asari are born to mothers who are in their matron stage of life, not someone who's already an established matriarch like Benezia. Given that, Benezia would have a different personality than someone who was 400-600 years her junior, and that would of course affect the sort of personality traits that Liara picked up as she grew older.

That's a good argument. Not many asari children are born from a matriarch after all. Benezia was maybe 300 - 400 years older than a typical asari mother so in those 400 years her view on the galaxy changed, raising Liara to be different. 

That reminds me, is Liara Benezia's only child or does she have more? And if Liara has sisters would she want to meet them? It seems very common for asari to have many children with multiple partners and so many asari would already have left home before their mothers received their 2nd or 3rd child, would that also mean those asari wouldn't feel too much kinship and wouldn't even want to meet their sisters?

Yes, no giving BioWare any ideas. Unless... it's to give us more Liara/Shepard screen time. That idea can slip through all it wants!

Yes please!

[TheMarshal]

It's a playful laugh, not a sarcastic Mrs. Krabappel 'Ha!' She thinks Shepard is teasing her with the idea of 'settling down' when there's still the Reaper threat looming.

I also wouldn't necessarily liken the 'maiden' stage of asari life to humanity's 'teenager' phase, since asari are considered adults around 60 years of age, and Liara has another 30+ years on top of that, so she'd be closer to '24 and pregnant', which isn't that big of a deal. Besides, all asari have to deal with the lifespan issue of their partners, so it's not as though that's going to be a deciding factor in whether or not she chooses to have a child/children with Shepard.