8541 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

centauri2002 wrote...

It's fairly obvious why the designers went that way with the eyebrows though. But, still, quite a number of asari have facial markings that retain the shape of the brow. Aria, for example. I don't think BioWare believes we can find eyebrow-less women attractive. >.>

Well eyebrows do help with expresions, and since Liara has a very expresive face I can see why they decied to make her "eyebrows" look similar to human. Besides, they look good on her

[TMA LIVE]

[lolwut666]

Well, Kalara Tomi, Seryna, Matriarch Bartender and a few others don't have eyebrows and they're still expressive.

[Centauri2002]

Mr.House wrote...
Well eyebrows do help with expresions, and since Liara has a very expresive face I can see why they decied to make her "eyebrows" look similar to human. Besides, they look good on her

I think the coincidence of their placement and shape is kind of funny. I always have done. But I can't deny that they add to her expressions and overall attractiveness as an individual. Liara has grown on me over the course of time anyway, the eyebrows are a small part of that. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 01 mai 2011 - 11:21 .

[MGIII]

centauri2002 wrote...

I think the coincidence of their placement are shape is kind of funny. I always have done. But I can't deny that they add to her expressions and overall attractiveness as an individual. Liara has grown on me over the course of time anyway, the eyebrows are a small part of that. 

No coincidence at all. It would make sense they would develop through evolution such a pigmentation seeing as it allows for easier communication.

[lolwut666]

MGIII wrote...

No coincidence at all. It would make sense they would develop through evolution such a pigmentation seeing as it allows for easier communication.

Why not the entire race, then?

[TheMarshal]

lolwut666 wrote...

Why not the entire race, then?

If you look, most of the asari (who have speaking parts) have some sort of eyebrow markings, though they're often more stylized, and tend to blend in with the rest of their markings.  Liara has very little in the way of markings (same with Samara/Morinth, so it could be a pureblood thing) so her eyebrow markings stand out more than the rest.

[Centauri2002]

MGIII wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

I think the coincidence of their placement are shape is kind of funny. I always have done. But I can't deny that they add to her expressions and overall attractiveness as an individual. Liara has grown on me over the course of time anyway, the eyebrows are a small part of that. 

No coincidence at all. It would make sense they would develop through evolution such a pigmentation seeing as it allows for easier communication.

It's only humans that use eyebrows as a means to express our emotions. It's a big enough coincidence that asari look so human as it is, but the fact that only one family line has this pigmentation in the shape of eyebrows, which is a very human characteristic, well that definitely stands out as a coincidence to me. 

I don't mind accepting it as part of the lore that the T'Soni family line (or Liara and Benezia at any rate) have carried this characteristic. I'm fine with that.
But I also recognise that the character design made use of the eyebrows to humanise Liara a bit more and make her more appealing to players. 

[AlexMBrennan]

I just think it's silly that a "skin pigmentation" would shape in the exact form of a pair of eyebrows.

I'm going to to invoke Most Players Are Human here; in-universe humans and you, the player, perceive her facial markings as eyebrows since you know that darker lines above the eyes are eyebrows - we look for patterns (two dots and a curved line : ) is a face, etc), and out mind turns them into a complete "picture" of reality.
Edit: I'd like to quote a source here but I can't think of the right terms to google for. However, a very simple example is the blind spot

Wikipedia wrote...
Observe that you do not see a hole. [...]The "hole" is filled in by your brain

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 02 mai 2011 - 12:26 .

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

MGIII wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

I think the coincidence of their placement are shape is kind of funny. I always have done. But I can't deny that they add to her expressions and overall attractiveness as an individual. Liara has grown on me over the course of time anyway, the eyebrows are a small part of that. 

No coincidence at all. It would make sense they would develop through evolution such a pigmentation seeing as it allows for easier communication.

It's only humans that use eyebrows as a means to express our emotions. It's a big enough coincidence that asari look so human as it is, but the fact that only one family line has this pigmentation in the shape of eyebrows, which is a very human characteristic, well that definitely stands out as a coincidence to me. 

I don't mind accepting it as part of the lore that the T'Soni family line (or Liara and Benezia at any rate) have carried this characteristic. I'm fine with that.
But I also recognise that the character design made use of the eyebrows to humanise Liara a bit more and make her more appealing to players. 

There's a picture of Lotsb Liara without eyebrows a few pages back (don't remember which) and frankly she looks entirely different. You wouldn't even recognize her as Liara if not for the unique skin tone.

[Centauri2002]

Robhuzz wrote...

There's a picture of Lotsb Liara without eyebrows a few pages back (don't remember which) and frankly she looks entirely different. You wouldn't even recognize her as Liara if not for the unique skin tone.

Yeah, she is a lot less recognisable. It's strange how one small feature can make all the difference. 

[Paula Deen]

jlb524 wrote...

I prefer the post-suicide mission cabin scene for the same reason muskettman does.  I (the player) know that the Collectors can be defeated quite easily, while the Reapers are still an unknown to me.  Thus, having Liara discuss the Reapers adds more weight for me the player.  Technically, for Shepard, both the Collectors and Reapers are both as unknown and dangerous as the other.

I actually like doing it Pre-SM. The main reason being all the potential drama and angst for the fact that Shepard is heading on a suicide mission and their relationship has to cope with THAT, too. It also gives Shepard a strong will to make it back against all the odds. And then the (sadly off-screen) joy when she finds out he's still alive and made it back.

[Paula Deen]

MGIII wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Everyone keeps screaming plot armor, but I cannot think of any situation Liara has been in where it was implausible for her to survive.

The only applicable plot armor I can think of in all of Mass Effect has been the Lazarus Project.

It's not so much about the situation she finds herself in in-game, but the fact that BioWare have arranged it so she hasn't been able to be killed off, whereas all other squad members have.

So, because she's not able to go on the suicide mission, that's plot armor? I guess I can see the logic in that, but I still think it's hyperbole to call it plot armor.

Plot armor as I understand it is when characters survive or overcome situations that are impossible to deal with given the ability of the character in relation to the situation they find themselves in.

Usually retcons and deus ex machina. Such as the Lazarus Project.

Plot Armor is a character's meta-protection due to necessity or fan demand. It may be that they can't be seriously injured (like Naruto, in the first chapter), it may be that they survive serious injuries that would spell the death of other characters (like Garrus surviving a gunship rocket to the face and a hail of bullets), or it may be that he/she is placed in such a position that they are out of serious danger and thus survive until needed later, plot-wise.

The devs deliberately stated that Liara (and the VS) were kept out of harm's way (the suicide mission) so that they could be guaranteed to be in ME3 for every player. Plot-armor indeed.

[Centauri2002]

Paula Deen wrote...

I actually like doing it Pre-SM. The main reason being all the potential drama and angst for the fact that Shepard is heading on a suicide mission and their relationship has to cope with THAT, too. It also gives Shepard a strong will to make it back against all the odds. And then the (sadly off-screen) joy when she finds out he's still alive and made it back.

I can certainly see the appeal of roleplaying it that way. As for me, I prefer to play the first part of LotSB before the SM and then play through the cabin scene after Shepard returns. It gives her something nice to look forward to after she's done risking her life. That said, in my main Shepard's play through, she had to go through the entirety of LotSB after the SM, since I'd finished the game long before it was released. It didn't diminish the impact of it in any way though. I haven't tried playing through the cabin scene before going on the SM though. Perhaps, if I play through again, I'll try that out. 

[lolwut666]

I think I wouldn't notice Liara's eyebrows as much if she had a little bit more markings on her face.

It could be something small, like a small line on each cheek.

At least it would look more like it's a pure coincidence that her facial markings are shaped exactly like eyebrows.

Anyway...

Carry on.

[InfoGuy101]

I wonder how Liara will react if she and Shepard have to go to Thessia to get help from the Asari because if I remember correctly from what she said in ME1 people where expecting a lot from her because she was the daughter of Benezia and she can't really come out and say "oh by the way I'm the Shadow Broker now". Some might still think she's under performed considering her mothers standing is there society.

[Centauri2002]

InfoGuy101 wrote...

I wonder how Liara will react if she and Shepard have to go to Thessia to get help from the Asari because if I remember correctly from what she said in ME1 people where expecting a lot from her because she was the daughter of Benezia and she can't really come out and say "oh by the way I'm the Shadow Broker now". Some might still think she's under performed considering her mothers standing is there society.

If that happens, my Shepard's going to give them a firm slap across the face and remind them of Liara's role during the battle at Citadel. And everything that came before. They don't need to know about Liara's role bringing Shepard back though. I don't think that's something she'd want people knowing. Of course, there's going to be the expectation that Liara should have followed in Benezia's footsteps but I'm hoping that, because of their nature, the asari will realise there is plenty of time yet for Liara to fill that void. She's still young and in her years where it's common to go wandering.

[InfoGuy101]

centauri2002 wrote...

InfoGuy101 wrote...

I wonder how Liara will react if she and Shepard have to go to Thessia to get help from the Asari because if I remember correctly from what she said in ME1 people where expecting a lot from her because she was the daughter of Benezia and she can't really come out and say "oh by the way I'm the Shadow Broker now". Some might still think she's under performed considering her mothers standing is there society.

If that happens, my Shepard's going to give them a firm slap across the face and remind them of Liara's role during the battle at Citadel. And everything that came before. They don't need to know about Liara's role bringing Shepard back though. I don't think that's something she'd want people knowing. Of course, there's going to be the expectation that Liara should have followed in Benezia's footsteps but I'm hoping that, because of their nature, the asari will realise there is plenty of time yet for Liara to fill that void. She's still young and in her years where it's common to go wandering.

Yeah your probably right I just wonder what they might do with the story in ME3 since there is a lot that can be added just with Liara being with Shepard on Thessia if you go there. They could bring up the pureblood issue or discredit anything Liara say's because of the identity of her father might comes out (Matriarch Aethyta) etc. It would make the story very interesting.

Modifié par InfoGuy101, 03 mai 2011 - 11:12 .

[Centauri2002]

InfoGuy101 wrote...

Yeah your probably right I just wonder what they might do with the story in ME3 since there is a lot that can be added just with Liara being with Shepard on Thessia if you go there. They could bring up the pureblood issue or discredit anything Liara say's because of the identity of her father might comes out (Matriarch Aethyta) etc. It would make the story very interesting.

The potential for us to learn more about the other characters in Mass Effect is quite large but I have a feeling most of that potential won't be touched on. We may get something similar to loyalty missions where we can tie up a loose end for the squad members but, in Liara's case, I don't think we'll get to explore much beyond one issue. Her father may be it, or her position within asari society. Or they may choose to focus on the Shadow Broker angle. We shall see.

I hope they continue with her character development though, they've done well up until now.

[InfoGuy101]

centauri2002 wrote...

InfoGuy101 wrote...

Yeah your probably right I just wonder what they might do with the story in ME3 since there is a lot that can be added just with Liara being with Shepard on Thessia if you go there. They could bring up the pureblood issue or discredit anything Liara say's because of the identity of her father might comes out (Matriarch Aethyta) etc. It would make the story very interesting.

The potential for us to learn more about the other characters in Mass Effect is quite large but I have a feeling most of that potential won't be touched on. We may get something similar to loyalty missions where we can tie up a loose end for the squad members but, in Liara's case, I don't think we'll get to explore much beyond one issue. Her father may be it, or her position within asari society. Or they may choose to focus on the Shadow Broker angle. We shall see.

I hope they continue with her character development though, they've done well up until now.

Yeah the progression of her character has been good though not clear at first. When I first played ME2 and found Liara on Ilum and and saw the conversation she was having I was like......damn what the heck happened to Liara but then the Shadow broker mission helped to explain what happened because coming from ME1 she seem quiet different not so "innocent" (best way I could describe the character change) but I'm interested to see what's in store for her and some of the other characters in ME3. 

[Centauri2002]

InfoGuy101 wrote...

Yeah the progression of her character has been good though not clear at first. When I first played ME2 and found Liara on Ilum and and saw the conversation she was having I was like......damn what the heck happened to Liara but then the Shadow broker mission helped to explain what happened because coming from ME1 she seem quiet different not so "innocent" (best way I could describe the character change) but I'm interested to see what's in store for her and some of the other characters in ME3. 

I was surprised by how cold she was, admittedly. That first encounter with Liara left me feeling hollow and a little confused. But, after thinking about it, it made sense. Even without the knowledge of what had happened during those two years. After reading the comic, everything fell into place. Plus, they showed us in Lair of the Shadow Broker that she hadn't changed, per se, but she'd just built up defences over the years. The same Liara was still underneath those extra layers. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 03 mai 2011 - 11:40 .

[TMA LIVE]

Paula Deen wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I prefer the post-suicide mission cabin scene for the same reason muskettman does.  I (the player) know that the Collectors can be defeated quite easily, while the Reapers are still an unknown to me.  Thus, having Liara discuss the Reapers adds more weight for me the player.  Technically, for Shepard, both the Collectors and Reapers are both as unknown and dangerous as the other.

I actually like doing it Pre-SM. The main reason being all the potential drama and angst for the fact that Shepard is heading on a suicide mission and their relationship has to cope with THAT, too. It also gives Shepard a strong will to make it back against all the odds. And then the (sadly off-screen) joy when she finds out he's still alive and made it back.

Well, everyone has there own prefer for things. It's like the conversation about Redemption with Liara. Some prefer the original conversation while some prefer the new one.

I just prefer doing it outside the ME2. If you do it within ME2's story, it feels like a short love story within ME2's plot. While if you do it after ME2, it feels like the next step within the series.

[kumquats]

I do it mostly during ME2. For one, I like to respecc my team and it's totally worth it when Liara says: "Those bastards."

But of course I have my savegame after the SM.

[Robhuzz]

Like many people out here, I prefer doing the Lotsb mission during the game somewhere (but after the mission: collector ship) while saving the cabin scene for after the SM.

[kumquats]

I think that's a good choice, but Liara calling Cerberus and TIM bastards is so satisfying!