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[JamieCOTC]

Lizardviking wrote...

It's a wonder how many people misunderstands or dance around the whole "Is Femshep bi/lesbian for romancing Liara?".

Yes, it is, but I suppose it's their prerogative. While it’s nice to get some sort of official "comment” on the subject, I stopped caring what BW (or anyone else for that matter) thought about the femShep/Liara thing.  My femShep, who romanced Liara, is a lesbian.  End of story. 

[Robhuzz]

Also keep in mind even if you romanced a ME2 character and then did Lotsb, while Liara was angry at first she has no trouble reaffirming the romance after the fight, either she really isn't bothered by it that much or she's saving all those sparks (or singularities) for ME3.

Edit: I just hope that, in terms of old relationships, the characters you rejected earlier (Ashley, Tali) aren't going to ask and flirt with you again. I'd really like to see that, if Shepard wants someone back, he(in my case) or she will really have to work for it.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 14 mai 2011 - 05:06 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

It's a wonder how many people misunderstands or dance around the whole "Is Femshep bi/lesbian for romancing Liara?".

Yes, it is, but I suppose it's their prerogative. While it’s nice to get some sort of official "comment” on the subject, I stopped caring what BW (or anyone else for that matter) thought about the femShep/Liara thing.  My femShep, who romanced Liara, is a lesbian.  End of story. 

While Casey Hudson's PR talks certainly don't help the situation. Atleast we (or people with common sense) knows that whatever he says is just PR talk. However I can't help but cringe a little at people who goes all "FEMSHEP/LIARA IS NOT GAAAY!" or don't understand the meaning of monogendered.

[Centauri2002]

Lizardviking wrote...

While Casey Hudson's PR talks certainly don't help the situation. Atleast we (or people with common sense) knows that whatever he says is just PR talk. However I can't help but cringe a little at people who goes all "FEMSHEP/LIARA IS NOT GAAAY!" or don't understand the meaning of monogendered.

Ignorance is bliss. For them, anyway. For me, it's sometimes amusing and often frustrating. >.>

However, it doesn't matter much to me how BioWare spins the FemShep/Liara romance, my Shepard is a lesbian and that is the end of that. If they try to tell me otherwise, I will raise a quizzical eyebrow at them and defer to that little thing called logic. 

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Nope, FemShep can't be a lesbian because she flirts shamelessly with Jacob, no woman can resist him.

Seriously though, Liara may have no concept of gay or straight but Shepard does so it still counts. Also Shep can flirt with Kelly, a human female so there is no "she isn't exactly a woman" excuse there.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

centauri2002 wrote... I will raise a quizzical eyebrow at them and defer to that little thing called logic. 

If she sounds like a female, looks like a female and IS FEMALE. There's a good chance she is female.

"EDIT"

I finally got my new laptop is able to experience the delight of seeing mass effect in high quality graphics and sound. Sadly I can't find a proper screenshot of Liara where I can show the diffrence! 

If somebody wants some footage (to use in fanart/wallpapers/or something else) just PM me and I might provide some stuff to use.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 14 mai 2011 - 05:39 .

[Pups_of_war_76]

Robhuzz wrote...

Also keep in mind even if you romanced a ME2 character and then did Lotsb, while Liara was angry at first she has no trouble reaffirming the romance after the fight, either she really isn't bothered by it that much or she's saving all those sparks (or singularities) for ME3.

I think it's more a reflection of the same kind of restraint that makes her reluctant to rekindle the romance initially. Not wanting to pressure Shep when she figures s/he is under a lot of stress. 

It seems likely that her reaction in

->romanced Liara
->romanced ME2 squadmate
->didn't do LotSB/did LotSB but let the matter lie

cases is going to be different from her reaction in

->romanced Liara
->started romancing ME2 squadmate
->did LotSB, rekindled romanced with Liara and consumated that.
->went ahead and consumated relationship with ME2 squadmate anyways.

cases.

(Though I don't know if Bioware would account for that level of variability or will just make it a binary thing). 




 

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Does Liara still mention Shepard's "cheating" if Shep breaks up with the ME2 LI (after the suicide mission) before going to do LotSB?
I'm also wondering what Liara's reaction to Shep and Kelly will be, I'm hoping for a catfight followed by Shepard saying "do I have to choose?"

[kumquats]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Nope, FemShep can't be a lesbian because she flirts shamelessly with Jacob, no woman can resist him.

Seriously though, Liara may have no concept of gay or straight but Shepard does so it still counts. Also Shep can flirt with Kelly, a human female so there is no "she isn't exactly a woman" excuse there.

But.... but.... I needed someone to feed my fish! 
And no, Liara won't mention him/her, if you break up with your ME2 LI.
You have to break up with them, because killing them in the SM doesn't count. LoL

[PMC65]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Nope, FemShep can't be a lesbian because she flirts shamelessly with Jacob, no woman can resist him.

Seriously though, Liara may have no concept of gay or straight but Shepard does so it still counts. Also Shep can flirt with Kelly, a human female so there is no "she isn't exactly a woman" excuse there.

Apparently FemShep only went to talk to Jacob after drinking herself into a "****" stage ... Jacob: "Shepard are you ok? Why do you keep calling me Liara?" Never mix Ryncol with Mindoir wine ... a purely Hallucinogenic effect

Jacob is also a great argument for those that don't want bi-options. If only there was a way that your relationships with others are defaulted on a purely "Platonic" level and non-creepy interaction, moving into the flirty only when you click "Romance" on that character. Or maybe during your Shep build you have the option to pick straight/bi/gay ... Don't know what that would require though or if it is possible.

In my first FemShep playthrough Liara being an option was a surprise. Was absolutely intrigued but still picked Kaiden because I thought that a Liara romance would be like some cheap girl-on-girl type of thing. You know, video game pandering to teenage boys getting their thrills and not a real relationship. On the next playthrough, decided to give it a try knowing that I could delete if it was "cheap" and "cliche'" - What a pleasant surprise. Bioware gets credit for handling this relationship well.

Maybe that is why Bioware is not wanting to say "Gay" because it takes the relationship down a sexual road that the Liara relationship is really not about. Gay people and their loved ones understand that their relationships are more than sex but to others it just translates "teenage boy fantasies" ... If Bioware said that yes they have a lesbian option in the game then consumers would buy the game to see a "girls gone wild" - That is truly not what the FemShep/Liara relationship is. The fact that they don't use the relationship as a "selling point" is a plus to me.

Oh, and Kelly was a pure "feed my fish" move.  Yes, she was used.

[Andoth]

PMC65 wrote...

Oh, and Kelly was a pure "feed my fish" move.  Yes, she was used.

My fish died, just like Kaiden because he wouldn't stop hitting on my femShep.  

 As I stated before, I'm all Liara, all the time!

[Centauri2002]

Andoth wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Oh, and Kelly was a pure "feed my fish" move.  Yes, she was used.

My fish died, just like Kaiden because he wouldn't stop hitting on my femShep.  

 As I stated before, I'm all Liara, all the time!

Your fish were hitting on you? >.>

My poor fishies died too. I didn't realise I had to feed them and then, sometime just before the suicide mission, Shepard was wandering around her cabin when she looked at the tank and wondered "where'd all the fish go?"

Ahem.

I needs me a Liara for mah cabin.

[Andoth]

centauri2002 wrote...


Your fish were hitting on you? >.>

My poor fishies died too. I didn't realise I had to feed them and then, sometime just before the suicide mission, Shepard was wandering around her cabin when she looked at the tank and wondered "where'd all the fish go?"

Ahem.

I needs me a Liara for mah cabin.

Sometimes, my skin-tone was apparently attractive by fish standards, and they weren't smart enough to take the hint!

I do wish I had Liara in my cabin as well, or a way to communicate with her, or something!

Modifié par Andoth, 14 mai 2011 - 07:17 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

kumquats wrote...
But.... but.... I needed someone to feed my fish! 
And no, Liara won't mention him/her, if you break up with your ME2 LI.
You have to break up with them, because killing them in the SM doesn't count. LoL

Lol, so you get told off for cheating even if your ME2 LI is already dead? Would be interested to see how that would play out in ME3. There are just too many combinations I want to try out.

@PMC65 I think I will imagine Shep as being drunk while talking to Jacob from now on (or maybe high if she's been to Illium since most drugs are legal there) because her leering was very off putting. In my first playthrough I mostly avoided him so he was never loyal and died in the SM, oops.

I can never manage to keep the fish alive right through the game, even if Shep flirts with Kelly some of the fish manage to die before Kelly offers to feed them. <_< But yeah, I'm sure that was Shep's only reason for flirting with Kelly 

Shepard (over the intercom): Yeoman Chambers please report to the Captain's Cabin. *slight pause* Bring your stripper outfit.

[PMC65]

Andoth wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Oh, and Kelly was a pure "feed my fish" move.  Yes, she was used.

My fish died, just like Kaiden because he wouldn't stop hitting on my femShep.  

 As I stated before, I'm all Liara, all the time!

Kaiden survived Virmire in the Liara romanced game, because Shep felt sooooo guilty dumping him after the 1st playthrough ... Kaiden was unaware of the "dumping" but still ... Shepard knew 

I've only romanced Liara with my main Shep because it would seem weird seeing her with the other Shep's. The other 3 Shep's were drawn to other characters, and forcing the game play doesn't work for me. To be honest, I don't even care to watch the youtube videos with Liara interacting with other Shepards. It just seems like an all-kind of wrong ... "Liara, what are you doing with that squirrelly dude/chick?"

Shep loves her fish but hates having to feed them ... Kelly is a WIN! Unless that little tryst comes back to haunt in ME3.

  

[AlexMBrennan]

I always miss the best bits

Lizardviking wrote...
However I can't help but cringe a little at people who goes all "FEMSHEP/LIARA IS NOT GAAAY!" or don't understand the meaning of monogendered.

I can understand why people don't understand the "mono-gendered" bit since that's at best misleading. "Mono-sexed" would be the correct term.

As for the gay/lesbian romance, I can also understand why people may want to be careful since we currently use these terms exclusively for human/human relationships. If we ever encountered sentient aliens then we might, of course, adjust the definitions. [To pre-empt "META PERSPECTIVE! I WIN!" responses - I don't care]

As for whether femShep is lesbian/bisexual, I'd say, never having encountered any sentient aliens myself, that it's not necessary as long as Shepard is sufficiently open minded.
I think that Shepard is attracted to Liara despite Liara being an alien and looking alien rather than because Liara looks like a (human) woman.
If your femShep prefers women then I don't have a problem with that; I do, however, have a problem with those who require that femShep be a lesbian since I think that it just cheapens the romance. The same applies to manShep being heterosexual.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 14 mai 2011 - 07:33 .

[PMC65]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I think that Shepard is attracted to Liara despite Liara being an alien and looking alien rather than because Liara looks like a (human) woman.

My FemShep was played as a heterosexual woman ... Despite that fact, there was something about Liara that just drew her in. Sometimes life gives us a great gift in an unexpected package. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I always miss the best bits

Lizardviking wrote...
However I can't help but cringe a little at people who goes all "FEMSHEP/LIARA IS NOT GAAAY!" or don't understand the meaning of monogendered.

I can understand why people don't understand the "mono-gendered" bit since that's at best misleading. "Mono-sexed" would be the correct term.

If people don't get that the word sex means the same as gender (in this context of course). Then they simply need to get better at understanding the english language.

I think that Shepard is attracted to Liara despite Liara being an alien and looking alien rather than because Liara looks like a (human) woman.

Liara despite looking alien. Is very human-looking. Her body reminds very much of a human female. If Shepard is attracted to Liara from a physical standpoint, then it's because he or she is attracted to the (human) female form.

If your femShep prefers women then I don't have a problem with that; I do, however, have a problem with those who require that femShep be a lesbian since I think that it just cheapens the romance. The same applies to manShep being heterosexual.

I would say a femshep who is with Liara is either bi or lesbian. No matter how you try to spin it.

[kumquats]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

@PMC65 I think I will imagine Shep as being drunk while talking to Jacob from now on (or maybe high if she's been to Illium since most drugs are legal there) because her leering was very off putting. In my first playthrough I mostly avoided him so he was never loyal and died in the SM, oops.

I can never manage to keep the fish alive right through the game, even if Shep flirts with Kelly some of the fish manage to die before Kelly offers to feed them. <_< But yeah, I'm sure that was Shep's only reason for flirting with Kelly 

Shepard (over the intercom): Yeoman Chambers please report to the Captain's Cabin. *slight pause* Bring your stripper outfit.

If you wish to learn more about the character you have to romance them, that's one of the things I don't like about ME2. All the femSheps who didn't romance Jacob and all the manSheps, missed out a very good character.
Well that was one of the reasons why he survived the SM.

Well anyway, my Shep is a flirt so I approve if she get's friendly with some people, but her one and only is Liara.
She is the angel for my devil

[AlexMBrennan]

they simply need to get better at understanding the english [sic] language

My understanding is based on the Oxford English Dictionary on my desk which says "gender tends to refer to cultural or social [differences]". In what context could "sex" and "gender" possibly mean the same thing?

Edit, quite a bit later: Asari are a perfect example of a mono-sexed species. Pterry's Discworld dwarfs in the earlier Watch books are a perfect example of a mono-gendered species.

Liara despite looking alien. Is very human-looking. Her body reminds [sic, no omission] very much of a human female.

Whom does her body remind of a humane female? You? That's interesting but immaterial; since we have next to no information about how human the asari look to in-universe humans we can't answer that question.
Besides, this isn't all about looks (body language, smells, etc) - and Mordin rather comprehensively shoots down the interspecies romance if you talk to him (particularly pheromones). So, unless you're assuming the "asari are genetically engineered demi-humans" hypothesis you don't have much to go on here.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 14 mai 2011 - 10:04 .

[TheMarshal]

Man... why do these threads always pick up steam when I've got stuff to do?

[Centauri2002]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

they simply need to get better at understanding the english [sic] language

My understanding is based on the Oxford English Dictionary on my desk which says "gender tends to refer to cultural or social [differences]". In what context could "sex" and "gender" possibly mean the same thing?

Liara despite looking alien. Is very human-looking. Her body reminds [sic, no omission] very much of a human female.

Whom does her body remind of a humane female? You? That's interesting but immaterial; since we have next to no information about how human the asari look to in-universe humans we can't answer that question.
Besides, this isn't all about looks (body language, smells, etc) - and Mordin rather comprehensively shoots down the interspecies romance if you talk to him (particularly pheromones). So, unless you're assuming the "asari are genetically engineered demi-humans" hypothesis you don't have much to go on here.

I get fed up trying to point out the difference between sex and gender to people on these forums. And yet I still do it. Ah well. >.>

Well, to my Shepard, Liara appears similar to a human female, although she's certainly not going to be so stupid as to think of her as anything but asari. That said, my Shepard's view is also coloured by her upbringing around other humans. Although she had contact with aliens when she was younger, she was in constant contact in a fairly heteronormative environment. So she has a clear view on gender and sex. Of course, she's a lesbian too, which helps. 

Of course, I can see an open-minded Shepard not viewing Liara in the same way at all. I'm sure there are pansexual Shepards out there, and even heterosexual Shepards that might make an exception for Liara despite the preconceived notions humans tend to have. 

@Marshal: It's a conspiracy against you!

Modifié par centauri2002, 14 mai 2011 - 09:00 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

they simply need to get better at understanding the english [sic] language

My understanding is based on the Oxford English Dictionary on my desk which says "gender tends to refer to cultural or social [differences]". In what context could "sex" and "gender" possibly mean the same thing?

Ahh. Guess I was wrong then.

English is not my primary language and I have always used sex/gender intertwined somewhat. So while monogendered might be the wrong word to use. The intent Bioware had with it was crystal clear.

Liara despite looking alien. Is very human-looking. Her body reminds [sic, no omission] very much of a human female.

Whom does her body remind of a humane female? You? That's interesting but immaterial; since we have next to no information about how human the asari look to in-universe humans we can't answer that question.
Besides, this isn't all about looks (body language, smells, etc) - and Mordin rather comprehensively shoots down the interspecies romance if you talk to him (particularly pheromones). So, unless you're assuming the "asari are genetically engineered demi-humans" hypothesis you don't have much to go on here.

Femshep can pick a dialog option when Liara ask if she is interested in her where she states "how can you and I have a relationship? We're both women." what's interesting is that the Maleshep version is where he states that she is an alien. Meaning that Femshep was less concered over that Liara was an alien, but that they were both women/female.

And as far as I remember. The human male in the bachelor party says that Asari looks like human women. As for the pheremones thing. Didn't Mordin state that Asari have some sort of subtle thing that makes people attracted to them.

[jlb524]

Lizardviking wrote...

Femshep can pick a dialog option when Liara ask if she is interested in her where she states "how can you and I have a relationship? We're both women." what's interesting is that the Maleshep version is where he states that she is an alien. Meaning that Femshep was less concered over that Liara was an alien, but that they were both women/female.

That certainly falls in line with the ME team's view that interspecies romances are more believable/acceptable than homosexual ones.

[PMC65]

Liara in my game play is built like a female human and unless Bioware has Tone Loc jump out in ME3 and sing "But when she got undressed, it was a big old mess, Sheena was a man" .... I'm good.