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[TSC_1]

Hm. True enough. That's the way I was leaning, anyway. At the very least, it really emphasizes that something isn't right with Liara after ME1.

[TMA LIVE]

TSC_1 wrote...

Hello, all. New to the thread, though I have read it all. (No, really...)

I have what you might call an in-character moral dilemma. My canon Shep is pretty much as Paragon as possible. To the point that the plot mission which gives you renegade points no matter what really irritated me. He's also utterly devoted to Liara as a LI.

So, here's the thing. The terminal hacking mission is a renegade action. But Liara asks him to do it, and he trusts her implicitly. How should I roleplay that? It leads to a conflict between the two core aspects of my Shep's identity. As I said, it's an in-character moral dilemma. Does he hack the terminals or not?

To be honest, don't worry about the renegade points. You get them anyways in ME2, even if you pick paragon for every option. If you want a story reason for why you're doing it, simply do it for Liara, but Shepard doesn't like it. He doesn't like breaking the law unless he has to, and doesn't like doing this. But Liara seems to be in some kind of trouble, and you want to get to the truth.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TSC_1 wrote...

Hello, all. New to the thread, though I have read it all. (No, really...)

I have what you might call an in-character moral dilemma. My canon Shep is pretty much as Paragon as possible. To the point that the plot mission which gives you renegade points no matter what really irritated me. He's also utterly devoted to Liara as a LI.

So, here's the thing. The terminal hacking mission is a renegade action. But Liara asks him to do it, and he trusts her implicitly. How should I roleplay that? It leads to a conflict between the two core aspects of my Shep's identity. As I said, it's an in-character moral dilemma. Does he hack the terminals or not?

Do you also avoid hacking all those money terminals because that also bad?

Seriously. Even paragon Shepard has taken countless lives and is willing enough to compromise and work with Cerberus in the name of the greater good. I don't see how hacking a few terminals is something bad, especially since Shepard does not yet know why Liara wants him to do it (for all he knows, Liara is saving a puppy farm!).

[TSC_1]

Also true. That's the same reason my Shep doesn't have an issue killing the thresher maw. How is that evil?

Modifié par TSC_1, 22 mai 2011 - 09:03 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TSC_1 wrote...

Also true. That's the same reason I don't have an issue killing the thresher maw. How is that evil?

Bioware does not even know how the paragon/renegade system works themselves. A good example being Tali's trial.

[SilentNukee]

Bioware does not even know how the paragon/renegade system works themselves. A good example being Tali's trial.

What's wrong with her trial? If you choose non-renegade or paragon options, she doesn't become loyal to you afaik. They're similar, but she's still more "****y" when she says her renegade one. Regardless, I agree. It seems BioWare plans everything in a logical way if you choose the paragon route. I don't mind that, being paragon myself...and a lot of other people. I think I read only 15-20% of people play renagade. But, still. ...I did Liara's hacking requests, because...well, I love her. And those were ones of the only gade points I got throughout ME2. Oh well, more exp and totally worth doing before LotSB.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

SilentNukee wrote...

Bioware does not even know how the paragon/renegade system works themselves. A good example being Tali's trial.

What's wrong with her trial? If you choose non-renegade or paragon options, she doesn't become loyal to you afaik. They're similar, but she's still more "****y" when she says her renegade one. Regardless, I agree. It seems BioWare plans everything in a logical way if you choose the paragon route. I don't mind that, being paragon myself...and a lot of other people. I think I read only 15-20% of people play renagade. But, still. ...I did Liara's hacking requests, because...well, I love her. And those were ones of the only gade points I got throughout ME2. Oh well, more exp and totally worth doing before LotSB.

Because handing the evidence over goes completely against what the renegade doctrine is about. In fact, Shepard does it because he feels like the Quarians deserve to know what happend down there and needs to know the full picture before making any jugdement regarding what to do with the Geth. That´s is actually a pretty paragon thing to do.

The renegade would not care at all about the Quarians and would just be there to make sure Tali is focused. If he was not silver-tongued enough he would just withhold the evidence. Problem solved.

[TSC_1]

But, still. ...I did Liara's hacking requests, because...well, I love her. And those were ones of the only gade points I got throughout ME2. Oh well, more exp and totally worth doing before LotSB.

Wait, really? I thought there was a plot mission that gives you both paragon and renegade points regardless of what you do. I think it's the "derelict" Collector ship mission. Is there a way to avoid the renegade points?

Modifié par TSC_1, 22 mai 2011 - 10:04 .

[SilentNukee]

Wait, really? I thought there was a plot mission that gives you both paragon and renegade points regardless of what you do. I think it's the "derelict" Collector ship mission. Is there a way to avoid the renegade points?

"Ones of the only" ...I got a couple more from something else but I don't recall what it is. Probably, that, though.

[TSC_1]

Ah. Gotcha.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Do you think Liara is paragon or renegade? I think she goes both ways, maybe more paragon in ME1 but getting more renegade by ME2. Wonder if she'll be even more renegade in ME3.

[TMA LIVE]

She's paragade.

[SilentNukee]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Do you think Liara is paragon or renegade? I think she goes both ways, maybe more paragon in ME1 but getting more renegade by ME2. Wonder if she'll be even more renegade in ME3.

Yeah, pretty much...ME1 Paragon, ME2 Renegade...ME3 Paragade? I disliked how she completely changed, but I guess having to go through what she did changes people..:[ At least we know she's far more independant, now.

Modifié par SilentNukee, 22 mai 2011 - 11:27 .

[Master Wolf]

I belive that Liara was a paragon in ME1 and turned paragade in ME2, I also belive that in ME3 Liara morality will be influenced by Shepard so far we haven't saw this because they need to control Liara story for her role in ME3 and as consquence we players haven't had the opotunity to "custumize" Liara character like we can do for example with Ash and Kaiden, in ME3 however they no longer need to keep this control over her character and IMO they will give this "control" over her character to the player.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

When I first played ME1 and 2 I thought Liara had changed loads but playing ME1 with ME2 Liara in mind made me see the potential. She was always independent and confident, she was just out of her element and needed time to adapt.

[TSC_1]

Paragon in ME1, paragade in ME2/LotSB. It's always seemed to me like what happened between the two games pushed her down a bad path. We see just how bad it's gotten for her in LotSB, where she manages to pull back from the brink in the end. I suspect she'll swing back toward paragon in ME3, but will retain her confidence and independence.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Liara doesn't change much on the morality meter from ME1 to ME2.

She's a full on paragon in ME1, but in ME2 and LotSB I don't think it would be fair to class her as a renegade. She's a paragade at best.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 23 mai 2011 - 12:37 .

[Blansten]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

When I first played ME1 and 2 I thought Liara had changed loads but playing ME1 with ME2 Liara in mind made me see the potential. She was always independent and confident, she was just out of her element and needed time to adapt.

I agree with this, I also think LotSB completes the picture. A true renegade wouldn't go to all that trouble just to save Feron. They would have sacrificed him and never looked back. I am hoping they use LotSB as the template for her in ME3, although I am just beyond happy that she will play a bigger part in ME3.

[HogarthHughes 3]

TSC_1 wrote...

Paragon in ME1, paragade in ME2/LotSB. It's always seemed to me like what happened between the two games pushed her down a bad path. We see just how bad it's gotten for her in LotSB, where she manages to pull back from the brink in the end. I suspect she'll swing back toward paragon in ME3, but will retain her confidence and independence.

Boooo.  I was pleasantly surprised to find that she had become more ruthless in ME 2.  I hope she either stays that way, or at least we should have the opportunity to influence her towards that path.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 23 mai 2011 - 02:54 .

[TSC_1]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

Paragon in ME1, paragade in ME2/LotSB. It's always seemed to me like what happened between the two games pushed her down a bad path. We see just how bad it's gotten for her in LotSB, where she manages to pull back from the brink in the end. I suspect she'll swing back toward paragon in ME3, but will retain her confidence and independence.

Boooo.  I was ecstatic to find that she had become more ruthless in ME 2.  I hope she either stays that way, or at least we should have the opportunity to influence her towards that path.

Well, I don't expect her to swing all the way back to how she was in ME1. She'll certainly keep her edge, and I would wager she'll end up somewhere between her attitude in ME1 and LotSB.

Of course, that's pure speculation and wishful thinking (as I said, my canon Shep is very paragon) - we won't know until we play ME3!

[Robhuzz]

Ericzio wrote...

Yeah I'm pretty sure that she will be more "Paragon" than anything in ME3. I think they made her the way she was in ME2 to push you to cheat on her(didn't work for me) just like with Ash or Kaiden. Bioware wanted to see if you could handle the changes in all 3 of the characters, I'm guessing you all stayed faithful to Liara though.

I suppose it would be  a lot to ask but I'd like it if Liara's morality went closer to Shepard's. Often two people who have been together for some time copy some of eachothers habits and stuff. I think it would be really nice if Liara became more paragon/renegade based on what Shepard is.

I suppose, for those of you who have played KOTOR 2 (not a bioware game but still), it would look a lot like the influence stat, where the main character could pull others to the dark or light side with a high influence.

[Centauri2002]

Robhuzz wrote...

I suppose it would be  a lot to ask but I'd like it if Liara's morality went closer to Shepard's. Often two people who have been together for some time copy some of eachothers habits and stuff. I think it would be really nice if Liara became more paragon/renegade based on what Shepard is.

I suppose, for those of you who have played KOTOR 2 (not a bioware game but still), it would look a lot like the influence stat, where the main character could pull others to the dark or light side with a high influence.

I would quite like to see this too. Most of what Liara has done during the Mass Effect timeline has been affected by Shepard in one way or another. It would make sense that she continues this trend in the third game. I wouldn't want to see her following blindly though, I'd want to see resistance to acts that are out of character for her. She's still tough and independant after all.

[Robhuzz]

centauri2002 wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

I suppose it would be  a lot to ask but I'd like it if Liara's morality went closer to Shepard's. Often two people who have been together for some time copy some of eachothers habits and stuff. I think it would be really nice if Liara became more paragon/renegade based on what Shepard is.

I suppose, for those of you who have played KOTOR 2 (not a bioware game but still), it would look a lot like the influence stat, where the main character could pull others to the dark or light side with a high influence.

I would quite like to see this too. Most of what Liara has done during the Mass Effect timeline has been affected by Shepard in one way or another. It would make sense that she continues this trend in the third game. I wouldn't want to see her following blindly though, I'd want to see resistance to acts that are out of character for her. She's still tough and independant after all.

We all agree with that obviously. I suppose to prevent a character from following Shepard blindly some sort of limits to a character's morality scale could be put in. This way a character like Liara would become more paragon or renegade depending on Shepard (though only if you romanced her all the way) but wouldn't go completely renegade because that's just not in her personality. No matter how much Shepard pushed, I couldn't see Liara turning all the way to pure renegade or even renagon for that matter, she will (imo) always be more paragon than renegade.

[jlb524]

I tend to think of Liara as always being Paragade, it's just that we never got to really see the 'gade' side in ME1 and then it came out guns-a-blazing in ME2.