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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Master Wolf wrote...
What Shepard knows from the Ilium cameo depends if you start the SB misson or not, if you start it you get one version if not you get a different version explaning the exact same thing now, in other words the version in the cameo is the short and incomplete explanation, when you hand Liara the SB information you get a more complete explanation and you can clearly see that is more to Liara misson than just vengence.

What?

If you talk about the dialog where she reveals what the SB did then that is the ending of the Illium cameo. Up to that point there is no paragon option where Shepard calls Liara out on what she is doing. There's the lower dialog options where Shepard does is it but is being less constructive about it.

"EDIT"

Robhuzz wrote...
Liara mentions 'He [The Shadow Broker] was
going to sell you to the collectors, but Feron and I stopped him' So
yes, Shepard knew about the SB's dealing with the collectors. I found
when talking to Liara about getting the shadow broker, Shepard didn't
really care either why Liara was after him (despite asking her) since he
offered to help anyway.

I am not talking about LOTSB. I am talking the Illium cameo (what we got in ME2 maingame).

Modifié par Lizardviking, 24 mai 2011 - 08:30 .

[Robhuzz]

@Lizard

Ah, my bad. I thought Liara mentions her mission to recover shepard as well if you select the 'reason for anger' dialogue option after she's dealt with nyxeris. As far as I can remember she doesn't mention the Shadow broker trying to sell Shepard to the collectors, just that he was also looking for Shepard. So in this case you're right.

Although the shadow broker wanting shepard's body and attacking Liara for it should be reason enough for Shepard to help Liara find him imo

[Master Wolf]

Lizardviking wrote...
What?

If you talk about the dialog where she reveals what the SB did then that is the ending of the Illium cameo. Up to that point there is no paragon option where Shepard calls Liara out on what she is doing. There's the lower dialog options where Shepard does is it but is being less constructive about it.

Until that point Shepard don't know all about Liara misson, is not a Paragon or Renegade question is a question if Shepard trust Liara or not. Don't trusting someone that is your friend sounds renegade to me.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

@Lizard

Ah, my bad. I thought Liara mentions her mission to recover shepard as well if you select the 'reason for anger' dialogue option after she's dealt with nyxeris. As far as I can remember she doesn't mention the Shadow broker trying to sell Shepard to the collectors, just that he was also looking for Shepard. So in this case you're right.

Although the shadow broker wanting shepard's body and attacking Liara for it should be reason enough for Shepard to help Liara find him imo

Actually. Once you finally get to know the full picture of why Liara is doing what she does the cameo is near it's end. Up until that point all Shepard know is that Liara have spend the last two years obsessing over getting payback against the SB for capturing her friend while they were on a job. And yet there is no response from paragon Shepard. Which is why I pointed out the irony that Shepard get's all riled up in Garrus's LM, but remains completely passive in the Illium cameo. Along with the fact that if Shepard wants to express any sort of concern  about what Liara is doing. You have to pick the lower options meaning Shepard will express it in a less constructive manner.

Master Wolf wrote...
Until that point Shepard don't know all
about Liara misson, is not a Paragon or Renegade question is a question
if Shepard trust Liara or not. Don't trusting someone that is your
friend sounds renegade to me.

[after completing the first hacking quest]
Shep: Wait a minute. Are you working for the SB?
Liara : Acutally. I am planning to kill him! We crosses shortly after you died. From then I have been working to take him down! [slams fist angrily against table] With this data I am one step closer!

Modifié par Lizardviking, 24 mai 2011 - 08:47 .

[Master Wolf]

Lizardviking wrote...

[after completing the first hacking quest]
Shep: Wait a minute. Are you working for the SB?
Liara : Acutally. I am planning to kill him! We crosses shortly after you died. From then I have been working to take him down! [slams fist angrily against table] With this data I am one step closer!

Explanation to what she is doing not to why she is doing it.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Master Wolf wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

[after completing the first hacking quest]
Shep: Wait a minute. Are you working for the SB?
Liara : Acutally. I am planning to kill him! We crosses shortly after you died. From then I have been working to take him down! [slams fist angrily against table] With this data I am one step closer!

Explanation to what she is doing not to why she is doing it.

I forgot to mention the part where she states that she needs to find out what happend to her friend. In which shortly after she states that "I need to make the SB pay for what he did!".

Now granted you could say that she is not solely based on revenge. But from an in-universe perspective would Shepard actually believe that whoever this friend is is still alive after being a prisoner for two years? Let alone the fact that there is a good chance that he never got to be a prisoner in the first place and was simply killed shortly after being captured.

[Master Wolf]

Lizardviking wrote...

I forgot to mention the part where she states that she needs to find out what happend to her friend. In which shortly after she states that "I need to make the SB pay for what he did!".

Now granted you could say that she is not solely based on revenge. But from an in-universe perspective would Shepard actually believe that whoever this friend is is still alive after being a prisoner for two years? Let alone the fact that there is a good chance that he never got to be a prisoner in the first place and was simply killed shortly after being captured.

Shepard don't know why her friend was captured or in what circustances and Liara says "I don't know if he is dead or being interrogated", teling Shepard that Liara herself is not sure if her friend is dead because there a posibility that he migh be alive and Paragon Shepard is marked by idealism and optimism so is in character for a paragon Shepard expect the best outcome even if it's unlikely.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Master Wolf wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I forgot to mention the part where she states that she needs to find out what happend to her friend. In which shortly after she states that "I need to make the SB pay for what he did!".

Now granted you could say that she is not solely based on revenge. But from an in-universe perspective would Shepard actually believe that whoever this friend is is still alive after being a prisoner for two years? Let alone the fact that there is a good chance that he never got to be a prisoner in the first place and was simply killed shortly after being captured.

Shepard don't know why her friend was captured or in what circustances and Liara says "I don't know if he is dead or being interrogated", teling Shepard that Liara herself is not sure if her friend is dead because there a posibility that he migh be alive and Paragon Shepard is marked by idealism and optimism so is in character for a paragon Shepard expect the best outcome even if it's unlikely.

What does the "why" really matter? Since bottomline, what Liara is telling Shepard that she has plotting revenge for two years. And paragon Shepard is completely passive!! And whatever hope that her friend is still alive is more like fools hope.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 24 mai 2011 - 09:18 .

[Master Wolf]

Lizardviking wrote...
What does the "why" really matter? Since bottomline, what Liara is telling Shepard that she has plotting revenge for two years. AND PARAGON SHEPARD IS COMPLETELY PASSIVE! And whatever hope that her friend is still alive is more like fools hope.

If he was captured for information or as leverage he would't be killed would he, and that'sthe reason why the "why is important.
Stoping Saren was a fools hope, destroying the collectors was a fools hope, stoping the Reapers is a fools hope, most of the things Shepard does or belives are based on what most people call fools hope so that's not reason enought  for Shepard not belive in something.

But if you want to have a different interpetation of all this is enterely up to you. I think is in character for a paragon Shepard to act as he acts with Liara until he knows the all true if you belive otherwise is your choice.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Master Wolf wrote...
If he was captured for information or as leverage he would't be killed would he, and that'sthe reason why the "why is important.
Stoping Saren was a fools hope, destroying the collectors was a fools hope, stoping the Reapers is a fools hope, most of the things Shepard does or belives are based on what most people call fools hope so that's not reason enought  for Shepard not belive in something.

But if you want to have a different interpetation of all this is enterely up to you. I think is in character for a paragon Shepard to act as he acts with Liara until he knows the all true if you belive otherwise is your choice.

But Liara has been going for two years. You would think if the SB was going to use Feron as leverage he would have done it by that point. And I don´t think getting information is going to be too much of a hassle for the bloody SB.

And no. Just because the odds of succses are low regarding defeating Saren/Collectors/Reapers it still not the same. Because the alternative (if you can even call it that) for not doing those things is complete destruction of civilization.

I think paragon Shepard's behavior during the Illium cameo is completely out-of-character (even more if Shepard is romancing her) given his behavior later during Garrus LM.

[TMA LIVE]

Lizardviking wrote...

Master Wolf wrote...
If he was captured for information or as leverage he would't be killed would he, and that'sthe reason why the "why is important.
Stoping Saren was a fools hope, destroying the collectors was a fools hope, stoping the Reapers is a fools hope, most of the things Shepard does or belives are based on what most people call fools hope so that's not reason enought  for Shepard not belive in something.

But if you want to have a different interpetation of all this is enterely up to you. I think is in character for a paragon Shepard to act as he acts with Liara until he knows the all true if you belive otherwise is your choice.

But Liara has been going for two years. You would think if the SB was going to use Feron as leverage he would have done it by that point. And I don´t think getting information is going to be too much of a hassle for the bloody SB.

And no. Just because the odds of succses are low regarding defeating Saren/Collectors/Reapers it still not the same. Because the alternative (if you can even call it that) for not doing those things is complete destruction of civilization.

I think paragon Shepard's behavior during the Illium cameo is completely out-of-character (even more if Shepard is romancing her) given his behavior later during Garrus LM.

So are you saying you wanted paragon responses complainting about Liara's actions? Since that's what happens with Garrus.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...
So are you saying you wanted paragon responses complainting about Liara's actions? Since that's what happens with Garrus.

Call her out on them. Or try to confront her about them. Just like the lower options does but with a diffrent attitude.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 24 mai 2011 - 09:49 .

[Unata]

Anyone notice that when starting a new ME2 game where Liara comes running up to Shep in the burning Normandy your given a neutral(?) or renegade response to her "Will the Alliance get here in time?" question, if you take the neutral option she's tossed into Shep's arms when a boom happens, if the renegade is taken she's tossed against the bulkhead with a "oof".

Probably happens with any of the LIs I suppose, but I never noticed it until now.

[corporal doody]

i never noticed...i ALWAYS take the neutral option when Liara is involved in the beginning

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Unata wrote...

Anyone notice that when starting a new ME2 game where Liara comes running up to Shep in the burning Normandy your given a neutral(?) or renegade response to her "Will the Alliance get here in time?" question, if you take the neutral option she's tossed into Shep's arms when a boom happens, if the renegade is taken she's tossed against the bulkhead with a "oof".

Probably happens with any of the LIs I suppose, but I never noticed it until now.

Yep. I think I noticed it on the on my third playthrough or something.

Always pick the lower option even if that means Liara get's hurt.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 25 mai 2011 - 12:29 .

[jlb524]

Unata wrote...

Anyone notice that when starting a new ME2 game where Liara comes running up to Shep in the burning Normandy your given a neutral(?) or renegade response to her "Will the Alliance get here in time?" question, if you take the neutral option she's tossed into Shep's arms when a boom happens, if the renegade is taken she's tossed against the bulkhead with a "oof".

Probably happens with any of the LIs I suppose, but I never noticed it until now.

Yeah, I've noticed that.  I think I picked the Renegade option once but immediately noticed the difference.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

The real renegade option should be to use the opportunity to cop a feel.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Unata wrote...

Anyone notice that when starting a new ME2 game where Liara comes running up to Shep in the burning Normandy your given a neutral(?) or renegade response to her "Will the Alliance get here in time?" question, if you take the neutral option she's tossed into Shep's arms when a boom happens, if the renegade is taken she's tossed against the bulkhead with a "oof".

Probably happens with any of the LIs I suppose, but I never noticed it until now.

Indeed I have noticed and it does happen with Ashley and Kaidan. I always pick the Renegade option when I play my FemShep, however, because hearing FemShep yell at Kaidan "Get the hell outta here!" is simply priceless.

[jlb524]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Indeed I have noticed and it does happen with Ashley and Kaidan. I always pick the Renegade option when I play my FemShep, however, because hearing FemShep yell at Kaidan "Get the hell outta here!" is simply priceless.

The voice-acting is awesome there.

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

The real renegade option should be to use the opportunity to cop a feel.

Shepard needs to get her priorities straight

Modifié par jlb524, 25 mai 2011 - 02:42 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Hopefully ME3 won´t end like this!

[Robhuzz]

I wouldn't mind ME3 ending like that, as long as after this scene Shepard emerges from the wreckage relatively unharmed like in ME1. And of course Liara as well..

[TheMarshal]

I'm sure there will be at least one ME3 ending with a dead Shepard. I'll be shooting for the bondmate ceremony ending, personally.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

I wouldn't mind ME3 ending like that, as long as after this scene Shepard emerges from the wreckage relatively unharmed like in ME1. And of course Liara as well..

Would having the same scene but reversed be good? Have Shepard be the one worried for a moment.

TheMarshal wrote...

I'm sure there will be at least one
ME3 ending with a dead Shepard. I'll be shooting for the bondmate
ceremony ending, personally.

Who isn't gunning for the "Marriage and old age and lots of blue children" ending? :happy:

Modifié par Lizardviking, 26 mai 2011 - 06:24 .

[Robhuzz]

@Marshal
I thought it had been pretty much confirmed there will be dlc after ME3 so yes, that seems to indicate Shepard will be surviving ME3 in most playthroughs. I'm actually wondering how hard it'll be to kill Shepard in ME3 since nothing but deliberately messing up the suicide mission could kill Shepard in ME2. Not that I want Shepard to get killed, couldn't bear to see Liara's reaction if that happened...

@Lizard
A reversed ending with Liara being apparently gone and Shepard worried would be awesome. Include some sad tune and a properly done 'sad Shepard' and it would be a great scene. I'd certainly be glued to my screen if that happened. It goes without saying Liara will actually have to survive that part though...

[TheMarshal]

@Robhuzz - I don't recall hearing anything concrete, but it wouldn't surprise me. I'm curious, though, if it's going to be 'post-game' content, 'in-game' content, appearance packs, or what. 'Post-game' content (minus romance 'wrap-ups') would be weird. What is it, is the last Reaper still tootling around the galaxy or something?