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[TMA LIVE]

TheMarshal wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think there's a difference here b/c Liara will out-live Shepard by centuries.  Liara really isn't giving up her life for Shepard and could always return to the information field (or archaeology) after Shepard passes.

Considering Shepard is going to die one day, what would happen if Liara didn't want the relationship for that very reason? What if she wanted it to end, so she won't have to delay the pain? What would you say to change her mind?

I gotta imagine that, culturally speaking, a race of people who live as long as the Asari do, and frequently find mates with other shorter-lived races would be pretty accepting of changing their life to accommodate a partner.  That said, to me it would still seem weird if Liara actually did that, but I may just be humanizing her.

I don't think it's weird, since Liara's already needs to be reassured that you're always coming back. She already is mourning, and trying to get past that. This is her first. The first person she loves that she'll have to be with till death. She never had to go through that before. She might not even want to go through it. Hell, she might think what's the point of marriage when it's just going to end, and she'll just end up with someone else.

Anyways, if Liara was that scared of going through that experience, both of my Shepards (if I ever wrote a fan fiction) might say something like this:

"Liara, no matter what I promise, one day I'm going to die. I'm going to die, and you're going to have to move on. I'm going to die, and then you're going to find someone else. Hell, I'm simply going to be one of maybe 10 other people. And you're going to have to love them equally. You're going to tell them that you love them just as much as you love me, or more. You may even forget about me. 

You might be wondering what's the point.

Well... the best answer I can say is this. And it's a selfish one. Though I might not be around forever, I love you, and I want to be with you for the rest of my life. I want to be with you till the day I die. And until that happens, I want to do whatever I can to make this part of your life the happiest I can make it. Because that is what I want to do with the time I have.

But if I'm not worth it, then there's nothing more I can say. But know this. There is no one else who I'd be glad to spend the most happiness and hell with for the rest of my life."

Or something like that, basically, Shepard would have to convince her that the moments would be worth having and experiencing, then to simply end it now.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 23 décembre 2010 - 01:14 .

[Xilizhra]

Regarding the movie... I'm also against the idea, which is the main reason why I want Uwe Boll to direct it. He'll make it a hilarious trainwreck and disabuse anyone of the idea of thinking that it's canon.

[TMA LIVE]

Xilizhra wrote...

Regarding the movie... I'm also against the idea, which is the main reason why I want Uwe Boll to direct it. He'll make it a hilarious trainwreck and disabuse anyone of the idea of thinking that it's canon.

I don't know. Many think the RE movies are canon, even though they "really" aren't.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 23 décembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think there's a difference here b/c Liara will out-live Shepard by centuries.  Liara really isn't giving up her life for Shepard and could always return to the information field (or archaeology) after Shepard passes.

Considering Shepard is going to die one day, what would happen if Liara didn't want the relationship for that very reason? What if she wanted it to end, so she won't have to delay the pain? What would you say to change her mind?

I wouldn't say anything.  While my Shepards would be deeply hurt and possibly decend into alcoholism, it's ultimately Liara's decision and they respect that.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There was a Liara T'Soni before Shepard, and there will be a Liara T'Soni after Shepard.

Indeed.

Modifié par jlb524, 23 décembre 2010 - 03:04 .

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think there's a difference here b/c Liara will out-live Shepard by centuries.  Liara really isn't giving up her life for Shepard and could always return to the information field (or archaeology) after Shepard passes.

Considering Shepard is going to die one day, what would happen if Liara didn't want the relationship for that very reason? What if she wanted it to end, so she won't have to delay the pain? What would you say to change her mind?

I wouldn't say anything.  While my Shepards would be deeply hurt and possibly decend into alcoholism, it's ultimately Liara's decision and they respect that.

You won't try to put up a fight for love? To try to convince her, before she ends it for good? I mean, I get it's her choice. I'm just saying, you won't keep trying if there was still a chance?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 23 décembre 2010 - 03:12 .

[Mestesso]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think there's a difference here b/c Liara will out-live Shepard by centuries.  Liara really isn't giving up her life for Shepard and could always return to the information field (or archaeology) after Shepard passes.

Considering Shepard is going to die one day, what would happen if Liara didn't want the relationship for that very reason? What if she wanted it to end, so she won't have to delay the pain? What would you say to change her mind?

I wouldn't say anything.  While my Shepards would be deeply hurt and possibly decend into alcoholism, it's ultimately Liara's decision and they respect that.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There was a Liara T'Soni before Shepard, and there will be a Liara T'Soni after Shepard.

Indeed.

True.  But it wont be the same Liara T'Soni.  It already isn't the same Liara T'Soni.  Not saying that's bad, just that Sheps already changed Liara.  Or, rather, Liara's let herself be changed.  I think Liara and Shep have made themselves stronger for the relationship. 

It seems (at least in my headcanon) that Shepards life is changed just as much by Liara as the other way around.  She would never end up with someone (or maybe not even anyone) like Liara.  Think of the changes tough, human Alliance military Shep must make to even allow herself to feel something for a shy, bookish, asari.  Her admittance in the Normandy's storeroom sounds like it physically hurt her, while sounding like a relief at the same time.  It's a two way street with these two.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

You won't try to put up a fight for love? To try to convince her, before she ends it for good? I mean, I get it's her choice. I'm just saying, you won't keep trying if there was still a chance?

I was under the impression you meant there was no chance.  Of course my Shepards would fight for it.

[TheMarshal]

I've gotta re-watch some of ME1's romance dialogues. It was only two weeks ago that I played through them, but I can barely remember them! :-\\

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Earlier on today, I imported my secondary Shepard into ME2 for the first time. It's so sad to watch her leave Liara behind, especially when the player is aware of the extent of Liara's suffering and misery whilst Shepard is gone.

LotSB can't come soon enough.

What dialog choices do you make on the destroyed SR-1 when Liara rushes to Shepard?

I always first pick the renegade option. Thinking that Shepard is kinda pissed off at the situation thats takend everyone by suprise. But the second option I pick the paragon one. Because Shepard sound more sincere and perhaps slightly worried when he's sending Liara away, and perhaps might not see her again.

[pacer90]

I recovered my VERY first shepard ever... that I thought I had lost. (Bought a new hard drive, thought I threw out the old one.)



I'm really enjoying importing her into ME2 and playing through my choices, god I made a mess of the galaxy! But I romanced Liara apparently so not all is lost, LotSB will be interesting with a female character.

[scampermax]

I take the paragon choices at the beginning of ME2 for two reasons. 1. I don't like being mean to Liara. 2. The paragon choice results in Liara being knocked into Shepard's arms, the renegade choice has her knocked away from Shepard. I want Liara in my femShep's arms one last time.

Modifié par scampermax, 23 décembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[scampermax]

rynluna wrote...

scampermax wrote...

I take the paragon choices at the beginning of ME2 for two reasons. 1. I don't like being mean to Liara. 2. The paragon choice results in Liara being knocked into Shepard's arms, the renegade choice has her knocked away from Shepard. I want Liara in my femShep's arms one last time.

I didn't know this.  I always pick Paragon options too, even with my Renegon Shepard.

The first time I went through the opening I chose renegade responses because Jih is renegade. I had to go through it all again because there's no way she'd act like that toward Liara. The renegade responses are rather hurtful to say to a lover.

[TheMarshal]

rynluna wrote...

scampermax wrote...

I take the paragon choices at the beginning of ME2 for two reasons. 1. I don't like being mean to Liara. 2. The paragon choice results in Liara being knocked into Shepard's arms, the renegade choice has her knocked away from Shepard. I want Liara in my femShep's arms one last time.

I didn't know this.  I always pick Paragon options too, even with my Renegon Shepard.

What?  Seriously?  Crap...  I may have to run through this part again real quick and see if that's what I did...

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Earlier on today, I imported my secondary Shepard into ME2 for the first time. It's so sad to watch her leave Liara behind, especially when the player is aware of the extent of Liara's suffering and misery whilst Shepard is gone.

LotSB can't come soon enough.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It was even worse for me, when I was playing the ME2 content of Liara. First it was depressing, since Liara wasn't there, and Shepard couldn't make contact with her. Then I met her, and I thought they were a real pare, since she was making renegade persuasions to the guy (which is something my paragade Shepard does.) I was thinking, "How could I have a problem with this?". But then, as I kept playing, I start realizing that the old Liara from ME1 was dead. A deeper voice, a different job, a paler face, and filled with anger. This wasn't the girl I romanced a month ago. I also started feeling like her lover just came back from the dead, and she didn't really care. I know later this is all not true, but that doesn't change the feeling I felt when going through those scenes. Which is why I kind of ruined it by playing LOTSB early.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 23 décembre 2010 - 05:45 .

[TheMarshal]

TMA LIVE wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Earlier on today, I imported my secondary Shepard into ME2 for the first time. It's so sad to watch her leave Liara behind, especially when the player is aware of the extent of Liara's suffering and misery whilst Shepard is gone.

LotSB can't come soon enough.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It was even worse for me, when I was playing the ME2 content of Liara. First it was depressing, since Liara wasn't there, and Shepard couldn't make contact with her. Then I met her, and I thought they were a real pare, since she was making renegade persuasions to the guy (which is something my paragade Shepard does.) I was thinking, "How could I have a problem with this?". But then, as I kept playing, I start realizing that the old Liara from ME1 was dead. A deeper voice, a different job, a paler face, and filled with anger. This wasn't the girl I romanced a month ago. I also started feeling like her lover just came back from the dead, and she didn't really care. I know later this is all not true, but that doesn't change the feeling I felt when going through those scenes. Which is why I kind of ruined it by playing LOTSB early.

That's pretty much exactly what I felt.  When I first got to Illium and ran through Liara's quests, it absolutely destroyed me.  It was like she had done a complete 180 in terms of personality.  That was the first time (since talking to TIM in the beginning) that I truly felt that Shepard was alone.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

What dialog choices do you make on the destroyed SR-1 when Liara rushes to Shepard?

I always first pick the renegade option. Thinking that Shepard is kinda pissed off at the situation thats takend everyone by suprise. But the second option I pick the paragon one. Because Shepard sound more sincere and perhaps slightly worried when he's sending Liara away, and perhaps might not see her again.

I always select the Paragon dialogue choices, but I've seen the Renegade alternative on YouTube. I don't really like them, especially when Shepard will crassly and angrily dismiss Liara by telling her to "Get the hell out of here!".

Additionally, selecting the Renegade dialogue choices prevents the poignant moment of Liara pleadingly calling Shepard's name from occurring, and that is something that I quite like about the scene, even if it is extremely sad.

Also, I always make a point of having Shepard inquire about survivors from the Normandy's destruction ASAP, as I like to think that Liara is constantly on her mind at that point. When Jacob mentions that Liara survived, I think Shepard is quietly overjoyed.

I agree with disliking Shepard yelling at Liara to GTFO. But that's why I pick the paragon dialog at the second option. So you get a Shepard that sounds pissed off in the start, but also all the good emotional stuff. 

[jwalker]

scampermax wrote...

I take the paragon choices at the beginning of ME2 for two reasons. 1. I don't like being mean to Liara. 2. The paragon choice results in Liara being knocked into Shepard's arms, the renegade choice has her knocked away from Shepard. I want Liara in my femShep's arms one last time.

Holy crap!
Didn't know that. I always take the paragon choice there. I just can't be mean to Liara.

[jlb524]

I didn't know about the Paragon/Renegade differences in the Normandy destruction scene either.  I've tried the Renegade once, but I guess I was to busy cringing at how awful Shepard was being to notice any other differences.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

It's odd, but I actually quite like the scenes on Illium now. I consider them to be an interesting part of the romance's troubled second act, and it is also crucial to the relationship's continued development and progression. Through surviving and enduring such harsh adversity, it's been proven that Shepard and Liara's love for each other is stronger than ever. I like it.

Yeah, they are all fine now since the romance has been reconciliated...they even make the LotSB reunion all the more powerfu.  The first time playing through them were quite awful. 

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

I didn't know about the Paragon/Renegade differences in the Normandy destruction scene either.  I've tried the Renegade once, but I guess I was to busy cringing at how awful Shepard was being to notice any other differences.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

It's odd, but I actually quite like the scenes on Illium now. I consider them to be an interesting part of the romance's troubled second act, and it is also crucial to the relationship's continued development and progression. Through surviving and enduring such harsh adversity, it's been proven that Shepard and Liara's love for each other is stronger than ever. I like it.

Yeah, they are all fine now since the romance has been reconciliated...they even make the LotSB reunion all the more powerfu.  The first time playing through them were quite awful. 

Yeah, I had to keep reminding myself that she does still care. Especially since I didn't get the "I couldn't let you go" bit, for this playthrough. And 40 hours of that.... Also, I was going through a bad moment in RL at the time, which wasn't helping.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 23 décembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[jlb524]

From a meta-perspective, I always knew that Liara still cares. BioWare wasn't going to have an LI dump Shepard or move on. I knew that the romance would eventually be reconciled somehow in DLC and if not, in ME3. It still sucked though, when you get into your Shepard's shoes and try to understand how they feel.



I think myself, as the gamer, was more upset over how little content Liara received initially in ME2 and how little it related to romance. The part of me that extends to empathize with my character was upset that the relationship seemed to grow cold after two years (even though I the gamer knew eventually it would be all good again).