8541 réponses à ce sujet

[pacer90]

TheMarshal wrote...


@pacer: Also good points. It seems like her social skills are present, if not more than a little unrefined/inelegant. (Also, yours was the story I was referring to earlier. Phenomenal 2nd chapter!)

Thanks! I think the best way to bring out the character of an introvert is to use others to show it. My Shepard is someone who's own actions will show what he is made of.

Liara on the other hand probably won't do much that will stand out to show what she is made of, unless someone pushes her. Ex: Ashley/Kaidan romantic rivals. Terra Firma guy. She's not going to show it on her own, she'll be happy to listen and watch as others do things.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I'm soon going to be playing LOTSB again with my renegade femshep who hates Liara.

I get why Bioware gave players the option to say no when Liara ask if she could come onboard the Normandy for drinks, but then the whole thing winds up feeling so schizophrenic with Shepard and Liara acting all like good friends only to have Shepard do a 180 degrees turn and tell Liara to F-uck off.

This isn't me telling that I disliked LOTSB and the banter it had. I just think LOTSB wasn't made with such a Shepard in mind.

[TheMarshal]

@pacer: You did a great job. My heart sank in my chest as I read the part where she was meeting with her professor.



That said, I'm inclined to agree with Les, in that she may not necessarily be an introvert when given the opportunity to be otherwise. It's just that most of her life she's been (again, theoretically) supressed so frequently for so long that it seems out of place when she does assert herself.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Liara's cameo in the retail version of ME2 only feels jarring and OOC if you take it at face value, and fail to read between the lines and analyse her words and actions. If the player is able to do so, and they did not misinterpret her character as it appeared in ME1, then I think you're able to see it as a believeable development and progression of her character. I've always maintained that her character development required additional clarification and elaboration that the scene on Illium did not provide, and this was proven correct with LotSB. I'm pleased!

One of the things that can be misinterpreted, that I'm just realizing now, is how Liara reacts when she sees you for the first time. From Shepard side of things, it seems like you came back from the dead, and Liara doesn't really care. She doesn't ask how you came back, or why you've been gone for a long time. She instead is amazed that you're alive, and then goes back to business. But in reality, she doesn't ask because she already knows how and why you came back.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

One of the things that can be misinterpreted, that I'm just realizing now, is how Liara reacts when she sees you for the first time. From Shepard side of things, it seems like you came back from the dead, yet Liara doesn't really care. She doesn't ask how you came back, or why you've been gone for a long time. She instead is amazed that you're alive, and then goes back to business. But in reality, she doesn't ask because she already knows how and why you came back.

If Shepard was quicker, she should have realized that Liara must know about the details of her return already as she doesn't ask about them.  But, Shepard was written as a brick in that entire scene.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

One of the things that can be misinterpreted, that I'm just realizing now, is how Liara reacts when she sees you for the first time. From Shepard side of things, it seems like you came back from the dead, yet Liara doesn't really care. She doesn't ask how you came back, or why you've been gone for a long time. She instead is amazed that you're alive, and then goes back to business. But in reality, she doesn't ask because she already knows how and why you came back.

If Shepard was quicker, she should have realized that Liara must know about the details of her return already as she doesn't ask about them.  But, Shepard was written as a brick in that entire scene.

I doubt even as an information broker she'd know he came back from the dead. Even so, she'd ask about it (Is it true?). However, she really doesn't because she knows from helping out herself, and doesn't want to lie.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 01:53 .

[jlb524]

She would know Shepard came back from the dead via the use of logic.



Shepard was dead....she handed Cerberus her corpse....she hears Shepard is alive again. I think Liara would conclude that Cerberus brought Shepard back. She might not want to know the details of it, though, for the obvious reasons and she worried Shepard might be different.

[TMA LIVE]

No, no, no. You're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

When you met Ash, she said "We thought you were dead. I spent the last 2 years thinking you were dead. Why didn't you try to contact me? Why didn't you tell me you were alive?" etc.

But when you meet Liara, she's like "You're alive! It's good to see you. Do you need information?".

She doesn't ask any questions as to where Shepard's been, or why he didn't try to contact her, etc. And from Shepard's side of things, this could be seen as her not caring. You say Shepard should pick up on it that she already knows, but I'm saying he wouldn't because there's no way for Liara to know everything about what happened to Shepard. Or that Shepard came back from the dead.

Except she does, because she was the one that saved your body, and gave you to Cerberus. And that is why she already knows. But Shepard hasn't been told that yet. To Shepard, Liara had no involvement in his recovery at the time.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[jlb524]

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.



"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone's been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years, and his death was a lie. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[TMA LIVE]

But she's not being cold hearted. To Shepard, it could seem like that, because she never bothered to ask any questions. But really, she doesn't ask because she already knows, and even took part in it. She simply doesn't bring it up because she doesn't want to reveal her involvement, nor does she want to lie about it.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:22 .

[goofyomnivore]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

I'm not familiar with the novels/comics, but doesn't Liara work with Miranda and Feron to get Shepard into the Lazarus Project?

Modifié par strive, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:21 .

[TMA LIVE]

strive wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

I'm not familiar with the novels/comics, but doesn't Liara work with Miranda and Feron to get Shepard into the Lazarus Project?

But Shepard was never told this. To Shepard, before the Observer quest or LOTSB, Liara had no involvement with his resurrection.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:23 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone's been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years, and his death was a lie. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

But Liara says, "My sources said you were alive..."  which means she thought Shepard was dead and is now 'alive' again.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone's been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years, and his death was a lie. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

But Liara says, "My sources said you were alive..."  which means she thought Shepard was dead and is now 'alive' again.

But doesn't ask "So you're alive. Where you've been for 2 years? Why didn't you try to contact me? Why did I spend 2 years thinking you were dead?".

She doesn't ask, because she already knows everything, and doesn't want to reveal her involvement. But Shepard doesn't know this.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

But she's not being cold hearted. To Shepard, it could seem like that, because she never bothered to ask any questions. But really, she doesn't ask because she already knows, and even took part in it. She simply doesn't bring it up because she doesn't want to reveal her involvement, nor does she want to lie about it.

It depends on the Shepard.  None of my Shepards felt Liara was being particularly cold-hearted.

To me, I think it's clear that Liara knows Shepard was dead (she was there when the Normandy went kablooey) and mentions it when she first meets you in ME2.  So, I think it should be understandable (from Shepard's POV) that Liara isn't asking tons of detailed questions about it, especially is she was an LI.

[goofyomnivore]

Oh my mistake I shouldn't of skimmed through the post so quickly, heh I see what you're saying now. I can see the point of view of Shepard questioning why she isn't asking all these questions, but how I see it is, she is hardly speaking to you at all, because of the monitoring of her conversations my Shepard just takes it as that, and after you do the Observer quests, she briefly explains some things, what is going on, etc.

Modifié par strive, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:40 .

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

But she's not being cold hearted. To Shepard, it could seem like that, because she never bothered to ask any questions. But really, she doesn't ask because she already knows, and even took part in it. She simply doesn't bring it up because she doesn't want to reveal her involvement, nor does she want to lie about it.

It depends on the Shepard.  None of my Shepards felt Liara was being particularly cold-hearted.

To me, I think it's clear that Liara knows Shepard was dead (she was there when the Normandy went kablooey) and mentions it when she first meets you in ME2.  So, I think it should be understandable (from Shepard's POV) that Liara isn't asking tons of detailed questions about it, especially is she was an LI.

But that line can be interpreted as "I thought you were dead, but my sources say you're in fact alive and walking around." There's nothing to tell us she knew Shepard actually died, and came back, until later. Especially when Ash, Kaidan, and Tali go through the same thing, and ask the same questions. Even in the beginning of Redemption, Liara wasn't sure till she found the body. Until she tells you about her involvement, to Shepard, it seems like she doesn't care to find out why.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[Sunnie]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone's been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years, and his death was a lie. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

But Liara says, "My sources said you were alive..."  which means she thought Shepard was dead and is now 'alive' again.

Wait, Liara recovered Shepards remains, then turned them over to Miranda. And she knows it;'s Sheps corpse because she also kept the mangled back plate or N7 armor. There's no way that Liara would think that Shepards death was a lie/cover up.

[TMA LIVE]

Sunnie22 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone's been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years, and his death was a lie. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

But Liara says, "My sources said you were alive..."  which means she thought Shepard was dead and is now 'alive' again.

Wait, Liara recovered Shepards remains, then turned them over to Miranda. And she knows it;'s Sheps corpse because she also kept the mangled back plate or N7 armor. There's no way that Liara would think that Shepards death was a lie/cover up.

I never said she doesn't know. I'm saying, from Shepard's POV, Liara had no involvement in his recovery, and thus doesn't know. She does know, but Shepard doesn't know that, because no one told him. He instead is wondering why she doesn't asked about why he's been gone for 2 years.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:48 .

[jlb524]

TBH, there's lots of conflicting information about Shepard's death...some seem to be aware she was dead and came back....others not so sure. I just don't think the fact that Liara doesn't ask 40 questions doesn't mean she's cold or doesn't care....that's up to the individual Shepard's interpretation.

[Sunnie]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone's been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years, and his death was a lie. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

But Liara says, "My sources said you were alive..."  which means she thought Shepard was dead and is now 'alive' again.

Wait, Liara recovered Shepards remains, then turned them over to Miranda. And she knows it;'s Sheps corpse because she also kept the mangled back plate or N7 armor. There's no way that Liara would think that Shepards death was a lie/cover up.

I never said she doesn't know. I'm saying, from Shepard's POV, Liara had no involvement in his recovery, and thus doesn't know. She does know, but Shepard doesn't know that, because no one told him. He instead is wondering why she doesn't asked about why he's been gone for 2 years.

You might want to fix that and say "from some players POV", because (the first time I played through ME2) I assumed that, since she is in the Information businees she knew what had transpired and I thought she was most likely involved.  I got this even though the scene was some of the worst writing I have seen in any game or story, and they basically used that as an opportunity to push players on to the shiney new "G" rated romances.  Only because so many of us raised a stink did they go back and rewrite Liaras part in ME2.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 28 décembre 2010 - 02:56 .

[TMA LIVE]

Sunnie22 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Liara does tell Shepard though that she heard she was alive again.

"My sources said you were alive...." is how the dialog goes.

Yeah, but not back from the dead. Everyone's been assuming he's been undercover, or whatever for 2 years, and his death was a lie. No one assumes he died and was resurrected by Cerberus just a few weeks ago.

But Liara says, "My sources said you were alive..."  which means she thought Shepard was dead and is now 'alive' again.

Wait, Liara recovered Shepards remains, then turned them over to Miranda. And she knows it;'s Sheps corpse because she also kept the mangled back plate or N7 armor. There's no way that Liara would think that Shepards death was a lie/cover up.

I never said she doesn't know. I'm saying, from Shepard's POV, Liara had no involvement in his recovery, and thus doesn't know. She does know, but Shepard doesn't know that, because no one told him. He instead is wondering why she doesn't asked about why he's been gone for 2 years.

You might want to fix that and say "from some players POV", because (the first time I played through ME2) I assumed that, since she is in the Information businees she knew what had transpired and I thought she was most likely involved.  I got this even though the scene was some of the worst writing I have seen in any game or story, and they basically used that as an opportunity to push players on to the shiney new "G" rated romances.  Only because so many of us raised a stink did they go back and rewrite Liaras part in ME2.

You didn't know about the comic that already revealed Liara's involvement before you played ME2?