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[JamieCOTC]

TMA LIVE wrote...

An example would be like in Fable 3. You can make promises, and have good intentions all you want, but being a good king isn't easy (unless you did a money cheat). Good deeds just don't pay as much as bad deeds in order to keep power, and run a large business, nor is it always good to turn bad people down. Liara would have to go through the same situation, and have to decide on weakening her power as the Shadow Broker, verses becoming more powerful. I'd like to watch her go through this struggle, and make a choice.

I like this idea.  I’m w/ J in that I don’t want to see any corruption of Liara (unless indoctrinated), but I would like to see both her and Shepard challenged.  Based on Shepard’s alignment there could be some interesting challenges to the relationship.  For argument’s sake, say a Batarian slaver has info on a Prothean beacon and is on the run from the Alliance.  The guy will trade the info w/ the Shadow Broker for passage back to a safe planet.   Liara, knowing this will cause friction, still asks Colony Shep to do the deed.  Shepard then has one of several options.  S/he can do it and let it go, do it and fuss at Liara later, torture the Batarian for the info and kill him or refuse the mission outright.   Three of those options will cause friction between Shep and Liara.  Two of the options could seriously damage the SB’s cred.  Liara may not really want to do this, but she is smart and practical enough to understand that the needs of the many outweigh the hurt feelings.  Shep can agree and be big about it or not.  This way she stands tall, she is strong, yet she is also challenged w/ being the SB, just as Shep was challenged in being a SPECTRE. 

As for indoctrination, no one is immune, (w/ the possible exception of Shepard, but really who knows) therefore it is not a traditional weakness.  I understand where J is coming from, don’t want the woman to be a victim.  Horizon saw a friend of Shepard put in danger and made it clear that it’s personal between Shep and the Reapers.  Unfortunately, Harbiner doesn’t seem to be particularly bright when it comes to personal vendettas, so he probably will go for Shep’s LI.  If that is Liara, then she will be the victim. But the victim is just as likely to be Ashley or Kaiden or Garrus or Miranda or Joker (just guessing) if no LI.  Gender won’t matter.  The interesting thing is that Liara may have a better chance at fighting indoctrination than any of the others as her mother was able to keep a part of herself hidden from Sovereign. 

[jlb524]

oxymoo28 wrote...

That's a question I wanted to ask actually. If Liara were to become a squadmate, how would her role differ from Samara's (in terms of combat capabilities/powers)? Because in ME/ME2 I see them both being cast as the Asari With Badass Biotics.

Judging by LotSB, Liara received very powerful biotic abilitites....better than Samara's even.  Though, Samara has better martial and weapons training (Assault Rifle) than Liara.

Granted, I don't think Liara is a stronger biotic than Samara, in canon.    Samara should be more powerful.

But in gameplay I think you are right in that they are both cast as the team's most powerful biotic and they are given powers to reflect that.

Now, if both are squad mates in ME3, I'm not sure how they will be differentiated, beyond Samara just being able to use an AR.   Though, if Shepard takes both of them, Shepard would gain practically all the biotic powers of an adept, as none of their powers are redundant and compliment each other (Samara has Pull, Liara has Warp, etc.)

[jlb524]

JamieCOTC wrote...

As for indoctrination, no one is immune, (w/ the possible exception of Shepard, but really who knows) therefore it is not a traditional weakness.  I understand where J is coming from, don’t want the woman to be a victim.  Horizon saw a friend of Shepard put in danger and made it clear that it’s personal between Shep and the Reapers.  Unfortunately, Harbiner doesn’t seem to be particularly bright when it comes to personal vendettas, so he probably will go for Shep’s LI.  If that is Liara, then she will be the victim. But the victim is just as likely to be Ashley or Kaiden or Garrus or Miranda or Joker (just guessing) if no LI.  Gender won’t matter.  The interesting thing is that Liara may have a better chance at fighting indoctrination than any of the others as her mother was able to keep a part of herself hidden from Sovereign. 

Yeah, I know becoming indoctrinated isn't a weakness from an in-game perspective, but it would trouble me (from a meta-perspective) if Liara would be the only LI affected being that she's a female and writers tend to always want to lump females in this 'victim' role that needs saving.  If it happens to all the other LIs, I have no problem then.   Something similar was done in Baldur's Gate 2.

Modifié par jlb524, 30 décembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[ACC3SS]

jlb524 wrote...
But in gameplay I think you are right in that they are both cast as the team's most powerful biotic and they are given powers to reflect that.

Blasphemy! Luna Shepard is the strongest biotic this side of the Skyllian Verge

It's so very difficult to discuss this game sometimes. I love it.

[oxymoo28]

@ACC3SS yeah having followed your link I see your point. Having not played ME2 for a while I didn't realise they didn't share any combat abilities (though I guess I should have looked them up before asking the question).

However I wasn't questioning their personalities, or Liara's presence on the team as a whole, I meant the question only in terms of their biotic abilities.

I personally adore Liara (as do all my Sheps) and I can't go an ME playthrough without romancing her (I've tried, but to no avail )

Sorry if this comes across as overly defensive, but I didn't ask the question to be abrasive or derogative towards Liara, and I hope that it's not taken as such.

[oxymoo28]

I fear I may have just exposed myself as a forum newb

[jlb524]

oxymoo28 wrote...

I personally adore Liara (as do all my Sheps) and I can't go an ME playthrough without romancing her (I've tried, but to no avail )

I have this problem too...5 out of 5 of my Shepards romance Liara. 

oxymoo28 wrote...
Sorry if this comes across as overly defensive, but I didn't ask the question to be abrasive or derogative towards Liara, and I hope that it's not taken as such.

I didn't take it as such. 

[jlb524]

Good point...we already had loads of trouble and angst in ME2.  I'm not opposed to a bit more, but I don't want something over the top either.

Modifié par jlb524, 30 décembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[ACC3SS]

oxymoo28 wrote...

@ACC3SS yeah having followed your link I see your point. Having not played ME2 for a while I didn't realise they didn't share any combat abilities (though I guess I should have looked them up before asking the question).
However I wasn't questioning their personalities, or Liara's presence on the team as a whole, I meant the question only in terms of their biotic abilities.
I personally adore Liara (as do all my Sheps) and I can't go an ME playthrough without romancing her (I've tried, but to no avail )
Sorry if this comes across as overly defensive, but I didn't ask the question to be abrasive or derogative towards Liara, and I hope that it's not taken as such.

I see what you mean. You're not being defensive in the least.
There is a ton of biotic overlap if you consider the entire squad, especially with my Adept Sheppard! Jack, Miranda, Jacob and Thane all possess biotic power.
It's all about choice... about how you build your squad, isn't it?

Modifié par ACC3SS, 30 décembre 2010 - 10:00 .

[JamieCOTC]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I think that, in a hypothetical scenario similar to the one that Jamie described, it's up to both Liara and Shepard to be mature about the whole affair, and discuss it as responsible adults. Relationships are built on a strong foundation of mutual trust and respect, and I think that compromises have to be made in order to ensure a romance's continuing success. One party cannot constantly and consistently place their needs above the other's desires and wishes, especially when being petty and selflish to that extent. I'm not attempting to discard any possibilities for potential angst, but I do think that it has to be consistent and true to both characters.

That, and the troubled second act of the romance has concluded. I want happiness, dammit! XD

Y'know, I can actually hear Liara saying that.  LOL

Yeah, I want happiness too, but I want to work for it just as hard as any other mission. Minus the bullets and things blowing up.  

[oxymoo28]

I agree, I think we've had our fair share of angst, now is the time for happiness

@jlb ok phew, just wanted to be clear with how I intended my question.

[jlb524]

I just think making sure you and Liara don't die at the 'hands' of the Reapers is working hard enough for happiness XD

Anyway, there will definitely be some angst for those that have an ME2 LI sitting around too.  They should have to work for it extra hard. 

Modifié par jlb524, 30 décembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[oxymoo28]

@ACC3SS yeah true, my adept would agree also

[JamieCOTC]

jlb524 wrote...

I just think making sure you and Liara don't die at the 'hands' of the Reapers is working hard enough for happiness XD

I don't know.  My femShep is the angst Queen, Colonist/Sole Survivor, so that may be a bit to simple for her. 

Shepard: Liara doesn't get captured and tortured and I have to save her? I feel cheated.
Liara: What?!

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 30 décembre 2010 - 10:09 .

[oxymoo28]

Whilst, I'm hoping for happiness for Liara and my Shep in ME3, I expect the whole Stopping the Reapers From Destroying All Spacefaring Life will contribute it's own share of angst.

[jlb524]

The pair could have a disagreement over Liara's personal mission (assuming they have these sidequests in ME3)....perhaps involving Aethyta?  Liara might get angry with Shepard which means Shepard will have to make it up with her somehow.  That kind of angst is OK.

The Aribastila power corrupts/fallen woman thing is just...ick.  And over the top...we already had over the top angst in ME2 with Shepard dying on Liara then coming back magically two years later.

JamieCOTC wrote...
I don't know.  My femShep is the angst Queen, Colonist/Sole Survivor, so that may be a bit to simple for her. 

[ACC3SS]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I just think making sure you and Liara don't die at the 'hands' of the Reapers is working hard enough for happiness XD

This!

I think that this should be the next "goal" or "objective" of the romance; Shepard and Liara working hard to ensure that they both have a long-term future together, and that they do not perish during the forthcoming Reaper war.

Also little blue children. You can't forget the little blue children.

[oxymoo28]

@jlb yeah that sort of angst (especially if it involves Aethyta) I would be ok with (in fact given how I expect Aethyta will be key if you have to 'recruit' the Asari at some point I kind of expect it).

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

That, and the troubled second act of the romance has concluded. I want happiness, dammit! XD

Yeah, I vote for happiness too. And Squabmate. I just don't want things to be perfect. I want some back and forth discussions between them. I loved talking about Saren, her mother, and her thoughts on humanity with her. I wanted more of that. And I want to know more about Liara's past.