8541 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't try to do any head-canon since I risk liking the character more for things I wished happened instead of what's in the game. Which is why I only focus on what's already there in the game.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as your headcanon additions are true to character.  I'm not going to believe something crazy like Liara serenades Shepard with a guitar every night outside the Captain's quarters door.

I do like Liara first for what is in the game, and then that motivates me to add some filler story for my own amusement.  For example, I like to believe Liara gives Shepard some comforting words post-Virmire.  I think this is something well within Liara's character.

[rvayda141]

Something I think they handled a bit blandly and that headcanon can help with was how you actually get the shadow broker intel that starts the lotsb off. Cerberus just happens to get the data and you find it sitting in your e-mail one day. I think they could have made that at least a bit more interesting.

I like to think that they found the Shadow broker intel from the data EDI recovered from the 'derelict' collector ship (or from the base if you choose to do it post-SM). Before EDI is unshackled and before Shepard tells TIM where he can shove it, that kind of information probably wouldn't have found its way to Shepard until TIM deemed it beneficial, but some of the crew can probably tell that the not-so-great reunion with Liara had an effect on Shepard. Miranda is probably one of those people, and after Shepard helped her with Oriana, she decides to return the favor and gives Shepard the intel to help Liara.

Doesn't really impact the story much, but I think it's plausible enough and a bit more compelling than just an e-mail from some nameless Cerberus command.

[jlb524]

That always kind of bothered me. I had always wished that Liara figured out the Shadow Broker's location on her own.

I like to pretend that Shepard was helping Liara out by sending her whatever Shadow Broker data Cerberus had and Shepard could gather from their data banks, during the time from when the two meet up again until the beginning of LotSB.

Inevitably, Liara still gets the data from Cerberus in my headcanon, but she got it from Shepard in pieces and she had to put it together herself.  I like this better than Shepard handing it all do her on one datapad.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 décembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't try to do any head-canon since I risk liking the character more for things I wished happened instead of what's in the game. Which is why I only focus on what's already there in the game.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as your headcanon additions are true to character.  I'm not going to believe something crazy like Liara serenades Shepard with a guitar every night outside the Captain's quarters door.

I do like Liara first for what is in the game, and then that motivates me to add some filler story for my own amusement.  For example, I like to believe Liara gives Shepard some comforting words post-Virmire.  I think this is something well within Liara's character.

Actually, one of the things I wished was for Liara to hug Shepard, as he quietly cried over the Virmire survivor's death. The way I would have wanted it to happen was for Liara to tell Shepard that she's over her mother's death, only for Shepard to hit a nerve and causing her to cry. Shepard then gives her a shoulder to cry on. And then, after Virmire, it's now Shepard's turn.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:00 .

[Sunnie]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't try to do any head-canon since I risk liking the character more for things I wished happened instead of what's in the game. Which is why I only focus on what's already there in the game.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as your headcanon additions are true to character.  I'm not going to believe something crazy like Liara serenades Shepard with a guitar every night outside the Captain's quarters door.

I do like Liara first for what is in the game, and then that motivates me to add some filler story for my own amusement.  For example, I like to believe Liara gives Shepard some comforting words post-Virmire.  I think this is something well within Liara's character.

Actually, one of the things I wished was for Liara to hug Shepard, as he quietly cried over the Virmire survivor's death. The way I would have wanted it to happen was for Liara to tell Shepard that she's over her mother's death, only for Shepard to hit a nerve and causing her to cry. Shepard then gives her a shoulder to cry on. And then, after Virmire, it's now Shepard's turn.

That doesn't quite work though when the player does Virmire before Noveria. I always do Feros>Virmire>Noveria as well as quite a few others.

[TMA LIVE]

Sunnie22 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't try to do any head-canon since I risk liking the character more for things I wished happened instead of what's in the game. Which is why I only focus on what's already there in the game.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as your headcanon additions are true to character.  I'm not going to believe something crazy like Liara serenades Shepard with a guitar every night outside the Captain's quarters door.

I do like Liara first for what is in the game, and then that motivates me to add some filler story for my own amusement.  For example, I like to believe Liara gives Shepard some comforting words post-Virmire.  I think this is something well within Liara's character.

Actually, one of the things I wished was for Liara to hug Shepard, as he quietly cried over the Virmire survivor's death. The way I would have wanted it to happen was for Liara to tell Shepard that she's over her mother's death, only for Shepard to hit a nerve and causing her to cry. Shepard then gives her a shoulder to cry on. And then, after Virmire, it's now Shepard's turn.

That doesn't quite work though when the player does Virmire before Noveria. I always do Feros>Virmire>Noveria as well as quite a few others.

Well, if they did include it, it'd be more of an option. Example, it'd be reversed if done in that order.

I like to do Virmire last though, because I want to keep the personal feelings for the death of the Virmire character fresh when the Council tells you to they're not going to do anything, and the Normandy is locked. You want to do something about Ash/Kaidan's death and the Reaper you discovered, and instead they backstab you.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Skyline_Stanza]

Sunnie22 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I don't try to do any head-canon since I risk liking the character more for things I wished happened instead of what's in the game. Which is why I only focus on what's already there in the game.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as your headcanon additions are true to character.  I'm not going to believe something crazy like Liara serenades Shepard with a guitar every night outside the Captain's quarters door.

I do like Liara first for what is in the game, and then that motivates me to add some filler story for my own amusement.  For example, I like to believe Liara gives Shepard some comforting words post-Virmire.  I think this is something well within Liara's character.

Actually, one of the things I wished was for Liara to hug Shepard, as he quietly cried over the Virmire survivor's death. The way I would have wanted it to happen was for Liara to tell Shepard that she's over her mother's death, only for Shepard to hit a nerve and causing her to cry. Shepard then gives her a shoulder to cry on. And then, after Virmire, it's now Shepard's turn.

That doesn't quite work though when the player does Virmire before Noveria. I always do Feros>Virmire>Noveria as well as quite a few others.

Well, it's his headcanon, after all. I've created some interesting things about my femShep that aren't expressed in ME2, something that I felt suited her character better than what was portrayed.

Liara was with Cam erry step of the way, as she went to Therum first. The prothean visions were causing her migranes, and she thought an expert on the protheans might be able to dechipher the messed up fragments in her head. However, when Cam layed eyes on Liara for the first time....

I wouldn't exactly call it love, but there was something about her. Her way of speaking perhaps, the way she stumbles over words when they first started to chat together. Cam had never really chatted with an asari like Liara before. She found herself...intrigued, to put it mildly.

[jlb524]

I like doing Noveria last for similar reason, except I'm keeping the feelings regarding Benezia's death fresh. Also, by saving Noveria for last, Liara really doesn't have time to mourn her, as they have to rush of to the Citadel and eventually Ilos. This just goes better with the fact that we don't really get to see Liara mourn that much in game.



Also, saving Noveria for last places both Benezia's and Shepard's deaths the closest together, and that adds a lot of sadness of the whole thing. In this way, she lost both of them within about one month. If you do Noveria first, the time span could be many months. Still tragic, of course, but not as sharply so as the other case.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

I like doing Noveria last for similar reason, except I'm keeping the feelings regarding Benezia's death fresh. Also, by saving Noveria for last, Liara really doesn't have time to mourn her, as they have to rush of to the Citadel and eventually Ilos. This just goes better with the fact that we don't really get to see Liara mourn that much in game.

Also, saving Noveria for last places both Benezia's and Shepard's deaths the closest together, and that adds a lot of sadness of the whole thing. In this way, she lost both of them within about one month. If you do Noveria first, the time span could be many months. Still tragic, of course, but not as sharply so as the other case.

Well, I more of saw it as her mourning when Shepard wasn't around, as a way of not wanting to concern him. I wanted more, but I have to work with what's there. Anyways, but I told Liara that she should not blame her mother, and instead want revenge against Saren. She then says she doesn't want revenge. We then find Saren, and learn he isn't the one to blame everything, and she says she's sorry for him. It just fits better for me.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:48 .

[jwalker]

TMA LIVE wrote...

[...]
I like to do Virmire last though, because I want to keep the personal feelings for the death of the Virmire character fresh when the Council tells you to they're not going to do anything, and the Normandy is locked. You want to do something about Ash/Kaidan's death and the Reaper you discovered, and instead they backstab you.

I do Virmire last for that reason (Therum, Feros, Noveria, Virmire). It's like the tension and drama reach their peak. You've just lost a friend, you're close to get Saren and instead of getting help you get a knife in the back

[Skyline_Stanza]

jwalker wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

[...]
I like to do Virmire last though, because I want to keep the personal feelings for the death of the Virmire character fresh when the Council tells you to they're not going to do anything, and the Normandy is locked. You want to do something about Ash/Kaidan's death and the Reaper you discovered, and instead they backstab you.

I do Virmire last for that reason (Therum, Feros, Noveria, Virmire). It's like the tension and drama reach their peak. You've just lost a friend, you're close to get Saren and instead of getting help you get a knife in the back

I'm probably not the only one who does Virmire then Noveria. I'd imagine that Liara comes to comfort Shep after Virmire, and then Shep gets to do the same after Noveria in the brief moments before they head to the Citadel.
Sort of like TMA's scenario, only reversed?

@Jlb: That's quite the interesting point that you bring up, jlb! I've never really thought of it that way. Makes Liara's story that more interesting to me now!

Modifié par Skyline_Stanza, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:56 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Well, I more of saw it as her mourning when Shepard wasn't around, as a way of not wanting to concern him. I wanted more, but I have to work with what's there. Anyways, but I told Liara that she should not blame her mother, and instead want revenge against Saren. She then says she doesn't want revenge. We then find Saren, and learn he isn't the one to blame everything, and she says she's sorry for him. It just fits better for me.

True.  Liara's not the type to burden others with her problems.  She's a better listener, as you've said before.

[rvayda141]

There's a lot of opportunity for character interactions between missions and such, not just with Liara, and it's kinda dissapointing that Bioware wasted that potential. There's obviously time between traveling and all the characters aren't standing in the same spots the entire mission. Even walking past Garrus or Kasumi while you're in the CIC would give the game an enormous level of added immersion.

Imagining banter with some of characters over a meal or sitting with more than one, perhaps Garrus and Tali to reminisce and catch up with wthat they've been up to for the past two years, talking to Jack (as a colonist/SS I always feel my Shepard can relate to Jack's past, and she knows she could have ended up like Jack did) about some of the **** Shepard went through, setting Zaeed straight after the **** he pulled on his LM (kind of a shame actually, I'm usually a paragon so I save the refinery, and up until that point I always imagined my Shepard developing a sort of friendship with Zaeed, he's rough around the edges but he has a code of honor. Got a chance to mend fences with him after lotsb though ("Hey I know you're still kinda pissed at me about the Vido thing, but my girlfriend is the shadow broker so stick around and I can hook you up,").

That kind of stuff just makes the game a lot more enjoyable, and maybe the lack of those types of things isn't so bad, because it lets you fill them in yourself to fit your own Shepard. Fanfiction ftw I guess.

[jlb524]

That's part of the reason I write fan fiction...to fill in gaps like this. Especially gaps in the ME1 Liara romance which was, unfortunately, shorter than the others due to her potential late recruitment.



To be honest, part of me is happy it is this way, because I like filling in the gaps in the Shepard/Liara romance and relationship in general.

[jbauck]

I used to do Therum-Feros-Noveria-Virmire consistently, but this discussion has convinced me to try out Therum-Feros-Virmire-Noveria next time I do an ME1 runthrough.



For doing LotSB pre-SM or post-SM, I prefer pre-SM. For me, the SM really lacked an emotional stake in its outcome, partly because of that whole thing where it's pretty easy to make sure no one dies. But, I felt that the SM itself felt more dangerous and urgent because of the cabin scene with Liara, and before LotSB came out I thought looking at Liara's picture was kind of depressing, but after, I also felt like that was Shepard taking a moment to remind herself that she'd made a promise, and that someone was counting on her to come home.



My opinion on this may be colored by the fact that one of my first impressions of ME2 was that resolving things with the ME1 love interest should have been Shepard's "I can't get my head together to concentrate on this suicide mission until I've resolved this personal issue" loyalty mission type thing.



For Liara convos with other squaddies, I also think Samara and Kasumi would be good, but the reason I had singled out Mordin for an especially fascinating and hilarious convo is that I imagine it would quickly devolve into an epic nerd-out. I think they would do awesome "What Does This Prothean Artifact Do?" science experiments together.



@jlb - your fic rocks. I totally dig it, so thank you for taking the time to dump your headcanon into a story and posting it on the internet.

[jlb524]

jbauck wrote...

I used to do Therum-Feros-Noveria-Virmire consistently, but this discussion has convinced me to try out Therum-Feros-Virmire-Noveria next time I do an ME1 runthrough.

I'd try it at least once.  You also get a bit of unique dialog with Liara after she melds with you again post Virmire.  At that time, Shepard's vision is complete and Liara is able to read it all and determine that the conduit is on Ilos.  However, they don't know how to get there, not knowing the coordinates for the Mu Relay.  Liara explains this bit to Shepard here (similar to the things Benezia says about the Mu Relay on Noveria). 

jbauck wrote...

My opinion on this may be colored by the fact that one of my first impressions of ME2 was that resolving things with the ME1 love interest should have been Shepard's "I can't get my head together to concentrate on this suicide mission until I've resolved this personal issue" loyalty mission type thing.

This is why I think doing it pre-SM can be appealing.  Shepard can go into it with a clear head, knowing things with Liara are resolved.  I've never done LotSB pre-SM, but perhaps I'll try it at least once.

jbauck wrote...

@jlb - your fic rocks. I totally dig it, so thank you for taking the time to dump your headcanon into a story and posting it on the internet.

Thanks!  I hope to update this weekend.

[PseudoEthnic]

jbauck wrote...

My opinion on this may be colored by the fact that one of my first impressions of ME2 was that resolving things with the ME1 love interest should have been Shepard's "I can't get my head together to concentrate on this suicide mission until I've resolved this personal issue" loyalty mission type thing.

The problem with this is that not everyone imported a Shepard that romanced someone in ME1. Plus, the default game had no ME1 romance to begin with. Not to mention that (other than SS)Shepard has already dealt with their past.

[jbauck]

@jlb: Sweet - I'll keep an eye out for that update.

I did LotSB post-SM with a completed runthrough as soon as it came out, but the next time I did a new ME2 runthrough, I couldn't stand putting off LotSB and pretty much had to play it as soon as I finished Liara's hacking missions (the hacking mission snarky comment from Shep is just too good to be missed).

And then, well ... I couldn't just leave her on the SB ship when I had the option of inviting her up for drinks. So - runthroughs of ME2 with a completed SM before LotSB came out, those will all be post-SM LotSB runs. Any new ME2 runs, though - I'm not sure I can wait until after the SM to run through LotSB.

My Shep clearly has skewed priorities. "Whole colonies missing and only I can stop it? I'll get back to you on that ... my girlfriend needs help." I can live with that, though

EDIT: @PsuedoEthnic: You make a very compelling point, and I certainly wasn't thinking of this from a viable "this should have been different as shipped!" development choice - it was my opinion as formed regarding my experience with ME2, and how I thought that experience could have been so much better for me, personally.  That is, with my import and ME1 headcanon.

The way they actually did this, with the SB stuff yanked from the main game and given the time and attention it deserved in DLC, is actually my preference now that I've seen how totally fantastic the results ended up being.  But, for my import, with the ME1 romance of Liara, that total lack of resolution before going on a suicide mission juxtaposed against going on a "Get Your Head In The Game" mission for All Twelve squaddies - I found it a little jarring.  LotSB fixed that for me.  I dearly and fervently hope that people with a VS ME1 LI that they're attached to, who are still feeling the same way regarding ME2 and sending their Shepard on a suicide mission with no personal resolution after resolving everyone else's issues, also get a kickin' DLC.

Modifié par jbauck, 09 décembre 2010 - 04:25 .

[rvayda141]

Yea I can never wait to do lotsb either, I do it after the collector ship. Shepard deserves peace of mind just like all of her other squadmates when she hits the relay, and for most of my playthroughs that means settling things with Liara. Plus all the other stuff, the upgrades, videos, and investments are nice to have early on too. It's just a bit of a let down that after that though Liara just stands there saying "thanks for coming by", I think they could have made her invitable to your cabin like the other ME2 LI's when your docked with her ship, or at least sit on the couch with her and cuddle. But I guess we can't have everything.

[Mestesso]

Captain Iglo wrote...

I squeed like a little girl the moment I realised in LOTSB that I can play with Liara and Samara in my team!

I. So. Did. Too.  Which is sad, considering I'm old and a dude.

Oh, and Liara is awesome.

[drwells123]

rvayda141 wrote...

There's a lot of opportunity for character interactions between missions and such, not just with Liara, and it's kinda dissapointing that Bioware wasted that potential. There's obviously time between traveling and all the characters aren't standing in the same spots the entire mission. Even walking past Garrus or Kasumi while you're in the CIC would give the game an enormous level of added immersion.

That's one thing that would make the Normandy feel much more real - the crew having scripted schedules in which they sleep, eat, walk around, etc. If you really need to find someone, EDI can always spy the person out for you. When people run into each other they can have conversations about the last mission you were on (which you can butt in on, or just sneakily eavesdrop on). They could even gripe that "so and so always gets to go on these great missions with Shepard and I'm left here calibrating the engine". Maybe add in a loyalty meter a la Dragon Age, based on what you do during the missions and whether they get to go along at all, rather than having it just be an on/off switch. Would eat up a big chunk of the voice acting budget, no doubt, but would also add replay value.

That, and have relationships (*ahem* like Liara's) be more ongoing things that evolve every time you go back to the ship (again, like DA) rather than one cutscene right before the suicide mission du jour.

[TMA LIVE]

I'm currently playing a new playthrough. I find it hard not to give the data to Liara because I feel like I'm withholding it. I hate that you can give it to her without even being offered the hacking quest. I also hate it because the Shadow Broker base does give you lots of good early upgrades, money, and resources. Not to mention to the ability to restart your squads abilities.



But I'm holding it off. I want to save it for last.

[jbauck]

See? That's where you need headcanon ... the only way I could imagine holding off on LotSB on a new playthrough is to pretend Shep doesn't have the data yet.

[Skyline_Stanza]

jlb524 wrote...

That's part of the reason I write fan fiction...to fill in gaps like this. Especially gaps in the ME1 Liara romance which was, unfortunately, shorter than the others due to her potential late recruitment.

To be honest, part of me is happy it is this way, because I like filling in the gaps in the Shepard/Liara romance and relationship in general.

That's the same for me, and I think it's the same for most people who were not satisfied with things in ME or ME2. They turn to fanfiction as a way to fill gaps, like I'm doing or Jlb's doing.

Plus, fanfiction's always a good practice for writing.

Jlb updating the fanfic?! *sits and waits patiently, but cannot contain excitment*

[Stealthy Giraffe]

Playing catch-up, so here are some of my thoughts. I would love to believe that Liara will play an important, substantial role in ME3, and events in LotSB certainly do point towards this being the case. I have no problem with her not being a squadmate, and believe that, if done correctly, her role could indeed be very satisfying. Even more so if her Prothean expertise is going to come into play. However, my only concern with this is if she was reduced to merely 'quest giver' a la Admiral Hackett, and little more. I realise that this doesn't seem very likely given the potential set-up in the DLC, but it's a slight concern nonetheless. Maybe I have my pessimist's hat on today! I should just be glad that she's at least guaranteed to be in the game and see the glass as half full. Fans of other characters may not be so lucky. So taking the hat off, I'm also of the opinion that she'll likely join the squad at some point near the end, leaving Feron in charge of the SB network. A bit too much of a coincidence that he's already got some experience in the info trading business, and is now camped out at the base looking for something to do.

I would also love it if she could have some kind of interaction with Aethyta. If BW decided to follow the pattern of the previous 2 games and give squaddies a side mission of sorts, then a meeting with her father could potentially be Liara's (even if she's not technically a squadmate). However, if her role is tied in with the Protheans, it may be that she'll be too busy with that side of things and a side trip to Illium may have to wait until more pressing concerns are dealt with. I tend to agree with what some others have said - that it would be great to see, but I'm not sure it'll happen. Hope to be proven wrong.

As far as my choices re: when to play LotSB. I prefer post-SM for many of the reasons already stated. The Reaper threat is more severe than the Collectors, and Shepard returning is up in the air at that point. Also, as a player I like to have the DLC to look forward to at the end of the main game. My Shepard also feels like she needs to take care of the current threat and wants to get Cerberus off her back asap. She hates those f******. So, as far as I'm concerned, she doesn't receive the SB intel until the end. She responds that she's frustrated, because that pretty much hits the nail on the head. She's fed up with Cerberus and the Council's stupidity, and hurt over Horizon. She's not a happy bunny

jlb524 wrote...

I've gotten into disagreements on how much this 'vendetta' against the Shadow Broker still motivated Liara in LotSB.  I wonder what others opinions on this are?

It seems as if the vendetta was used as the main reason in ME2 for her actions, but was then changed in LotSB, where it became more about repaying a debt to Feron. If she was able to take out the SB at the same time, great, but if not..."Get in, get Feron, get out...and kill anyone who tries to stop us". Then she mentions something about just getting Feron, and again at the end says all she wanted was to get Feron back. Her key focus seems to be to get Feron above all else. He saved her and Shepard, she needs to save him.