8541 réponses à ce sujet

[scampermax]

jbauck wrote...

See? That's where you need headcanon ... the only way I could imagine holding off on LotSB on a new playthrough is to pretend Shep doesn't have the data yet.

That's the way I play it. Considering the effort TIM makes to distance Shepard from Liara even if he already had the data I don't think he'd hand it over right away. Once Shepard finds out Liara's part in bringing her back then there's no point to not releasing the data. Plus, as others have said, it provides a way to get Shepard's head back in the game and not get unfocused worrying about Liara and her vendetta.

Also I like the angry hacking retort from Shep too much to miss the opportunity to hack some terminals.

My timeline on LotSB is: rescue Feron/take out Shadow Broker pre--SM. Invite Liara to the Normandy post-SM. It gives me and my Sheps something to look forward to after the game's over.

Modifié par scampermax, 09 décembre 2010 - 04:50 .

[jlb524]

Stealthy Giraffe wrote...

I would also love it if she could have some kind of interaction with Aethyta. If BW decided to follow the pattern of the previous 2 games and give squaddies a side mission of sorts, then a meeting with her father could potentially be Liara's (even if she's not technically a squadmate). However, if her role is tied in with the Protheans, it may be that she'll be too busy with that side of things and a side trip to Illium may have to wait until more pressing concerns are dealt with. I tend to agree with what some others have said - that it would be great to see, but I'm not sure it'll happen. Hope to be proven wrong.

Aethyta could work on the Normandy as a bartender in ME3, like some wish for.  This could be where interaction comes in.  XD

Though, I fear that post LotSB, poor Aethyta will fear for Liara's safety, as her daughter has just disappeared.  I'm assuming Aethyta choose to work so close to Liara's office on Illium in order to keep an eye on her.  She's going to get suspicious soon.  Also, Shepard was the last person possibly seen with Liara and was the last one in the office that day before Liara left for her apartment.   Aethyta might hunt Shepard down wondering what happened to Liara.  That's just a thought I had.

Stealthy Giraffe wrote...

It seems as if the vendetta was used as the main reason in ME2 for her actions, but was then changed in LotSB, where it became more about repaying a debt to Feron. If she was able to take out the SB at the same time, great, but if not..."Get in, get Feron, get out...and kill anyone who tries to stop us". Then she mentions something about just getting Feron, and again at the end says all she wanted was to get Feron back. Her key focus seems to be to get Feron above all else. He saved her and Shepard, she needs to save him.

In spite of the DLC being all about 'saving Feron', I still always felt that realistically Liara would still hold some hard feelings for the Shadow Broker, and that part of her motivations still did remain to be about vengeneance.   Though, I will admit her main motivation was in saving Feron. and this was far more important than gaining possible vengeance against the Shadow Broker.

[jwalker]

scampermax wrote...

jbauck wrote...

See? That's where you need headcanon ... the only way I could imagine holding off on LotSB on a new playthrough is to pretend Shep doesn't have the data yet.

That's the way I play it. Considering the effort TIM makes to distance Shepard from Liara even if he already had the data I don't think he'd hand it over right away. Once Shepard finds out Liara's part in bringing her back then there's no point to not releasing the data. Plus, as others have said, it provides a way to get Shepard's head back in the game and not get unfocused worrying about Liara and her vendetta.

Also I like the angry hacking retort from Shep too much to miss the opportunity to hack some terminals.

My timeline on LotSB is: rescue Feron/take out Shadow Broker pre--SM. Invite Liara to the Normandy post-SM. It gives me and my Sheps something to look forward to after the game's over.

I also play LotSB pre-SM, but no right away. I wait until after the DCS mission.
Between Horizon and DCS, there's a really short time IMO. In-game, those are exactly 5 missions, whether they're dossiers, loyalties or N7s
During that time, you have available two side quests from Liara. Hacking the terminals and then The Observer.
For me, my Shepard just re-encountered with Liara and things are kinda fuzzy and she's trying to figure out what is going on.
But the DCS changes everything. That's where you actually, in my head of course, get that intel (or EDI, to be more accurate). You know what you need to. You know where are the collectors and how to get to them.
Now it's time to set everything else straight.
But I invite Liara to the Normandy after the SM.

[jlb524]

You've convinced me to do LotSB pre-SM next time (but post DCS).



Not sure when I will do the cabin scene. I kind of like the idea of inviting Liara up right before you go through the relay (and get the picture scene).

[MarkusWhatever]

jlb524 wrote...
Not sure when I will do the cabin scene. I kind of like the idea of inviting Liara up right before you go through the relay (and get the picture scene).

In my opinion the picture scene would actually make the most sense that way .

[Stealthy Giraffe]

jlb524 wrote...

Aethyta could work on the Normandy as a bartender in ME3, like some wish for.  This could be where interaction comes in.  XD

Though, I fear that post LotSB, poor Aethyta will fear for Liara's safety, as her daughter has just disappeared.  I'm assuming Aethyta choose to work so close to Liara's office on Illium in order to keep an eye on her.  She's going to get suspicious soon.  Also, Shepard was the last person possibly seen with Liara and was the last one in the office that day before Liara left for her apartment.   Aethyta might hunt Shepard down wondering what happened to Liara.  That's just a thought I had.

Get everyone drunk...will make the meeting that much easier

So do you think Shep could have a potential run-in with one very pissed off Matriarch in ME3? Could make for a compelling little scene.

jlb524 wrote...

In spite of the DLC being all about 'saving Feron', I still always felt that realistically Liara would still hold some hard feelings for the Shadow Broker, and that part of her motivations still did remain to be about vengeneance.   Though, I will admit her main motivation was in saving Feron. and this was far more important than gaining possible vengeance against the Shadow Broker.

True. At the end of the day, she spent 2 years of her life tracking him down. I wonder why the focus seemed to shift so much away from vengeance and towards repaying a debt. Could it be that they wanted to appease those who saw her as 'crazy' and 'obsessive' by making her focus more in line with how she's been perceived in the past - more of a compassionate individual who wouldn't want to see someone suffer, especially if she was the cause? I personally had no problem with her ME2 personality. I think everything she'd been through gave her the right to those feelings, but I'm guessing not everyone thinks the same.

[jwalker]

MarkusWhatever wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
Not sure when I will do the cabin scene. I kind of like the idea of inviting Liara up right before you go through the relay (and get the picture scene).

In my opinion the picture scene would actually make the most sense that way .

hmm... yes, you get to keep your promise to Liara, of always coming back. That's nice too.

[jlb524]

Stealthy Giraffe wrote...
Get everyone drunk...will make the meeting that much easier

So do you think Shep could have a potential run-in with one very pissed off Matriarch in ME3? Could make for a compelling little scene.

Yes, and a humorous scene too!

Stealthy Giraffe wrote...

True. At the end of the day, she spent 2 years of her life tracking him down. I wonder why the focus seemed to shift so much away from vengeance and towards repaying a debt. Could it be that they wanted to appease those who saw her as 'crazy' and 'obsessive' by making her focus more in line with how she's been perceived in the past - more of a compassionate individual who wouldn't want to see someone suffer, especially if she was the cause? I personally had no problem with her ME2 personality. I think everything she'd been through gave her the right to those feelings, but I'm guessing not everyone thinks the same.

That's a good theory.  It's possible.  I never had a problem with how she behaved in ME2 either nor thought she was 'crazy' or 'obsessive', but I've seen those terms thrown around often to describe her in ME2.

MarkusWhatever wrote...

In my opinion the picture scene would actually make the most sense that way .

Yeah, since you just saw her and reaffirmed the relationship and made a promise to come back, it adds more emotion to the scene.

Also, it always kind of bothered me that Shepard didn't speak with Liara or say goodbye in ME2 before going off on the suicide mission.  Doing the cabin scene pre-SM is a way to fix that.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 décembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[rvayda141]

It's possible that Aethyta will have a bigger role in ME3 than just a side mission for Liara. From talking to her, it's pretty obvious she has the type of political views that can help Shepard rally troops to fight the reapers, and unless the council suddenly decides to believe the reapers are coming (unlikely) then Shepard's definitely not gonna sit around waiting for them to get their heads out of each other's "butt puckers", she's gonna be convincing people to help her. There's gotta be factions or other leaders within the different racial governments that would be more inclined to believe Shepard, especially military types. And while Shepard is running around, Liara can be using her network as the SB to find those people and convince them.

The scene between Liara and Aethyta seems inevitable in that context, because if anything is gonna convince Aethyta to return to Thessia and get active in politics to help Shepard, it's gonna be Liara.

Shepard might not be as boned as everyone thinks, a lot of her crewmembers and other allies are pretty influential among their own races: mordin is a highly respected former STG member, Samara is a pretty old justicar, Hackett and Anderson are behind her, Aria seems to like her, or at least not hate her, and Wrex is the leader of the krogan (unless you killed him, but let's be honest, a galaxy without Wrex is a galaxy that deserves to be reaper chow). Shepard might be branded a traitor or an extremist by the council for doing all this, but something like that will probably only draw more people to Shepard's cause. I can see her dragging the politicians kicking and screaming into the reaper war whether they like it or not.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seems most people disagree with me. But I think doing LOTSB pre suicide mission removes most of the punch behind it all, especially the picture scene.  Even if you withhold doing the reunion it still feels not so great because the romance is "secured".

[pacer90]

jlb524 wrote...

In spite of the DLC being all about 'saving Feron', I still always felt that realistically Liara would still hold some hard feelings for the Shadow Broker, and that part of her motivations still did remain to be about vengeneance.   Though, I will admit her main motivation was in saving Feron. and this was far more important than gaining possible vengeance against the Shadow Broker.

I think the vengence stayed but it manifested in a new form later on. I always thought the progression of Liara's personality had a few stages. Perhaps it's just "head canon" as you guys said. I think that her hardened state was because of how she thought she had failed everyone. There was:

1. The first encounter on Illium. She's obviously hardened, bitter and angry. She's threatening people with biotics to repay her the money they owe her. She's slamming her fists on the table talking about how she's going to fit the Shadow Broker into a coffee cup. Main mission here is about vengence. (Up unitl recently she thought that Shepard was gone for good, and Feron was dead too.)

2. 2nd encounter on Illium. She breaks down a bit, tells you about how Cerberus got your body back. She really thought that you would hate her for it, is noticeably less pissed off now that you tell her that it's a good thing what she did. You've lifted a lot off her, she may have lost Feron but you're back, and you see that tiny trace of the old Liara. Character shift back towards focus on how other's feel rather than her own need for vengence, though making the Shadow Broker pay for what he did is still priority #1.

3. You bring her the Shadow Broker data, she realizes that it's a rescue mission now. Not talking about "coffee cups" anymore, she's focused on saving people. Not vengence at all, now it's to stop the Shadow Broker to make sure everyone stays safe. (and to get Feron obv)

4. Shadow Broker mission, starts talking like the old Liara. When you confront the Shadow Broker she doesn't say "You're going to die!" After he talks about what he's going to do to your companions (disecting grunt for example) she says "You're not going to put a hand on anyone!" Evidence that getting rid of the Shadow Broker is a nessecity to save the people she cares about.

5. Becomes Shadow Broker. Talks about the good she can do for everyone, how she can help the galaxy. Character change complete.


Imo... I did a poor job of explaining it because there are a bunch of little incidents that bring me to this conclusion but it's the best I can do between calculus problems HOPEFULLY some of it makes sense.

[jlb524]

That makes sense, pacer.  Liara's mental state during the events of ME2 is quite complicated, and I don't think it was a simple on-off switch.  She doesn't go from wanting revenge to not wanting it at the flip of a switch...there's a progression and 'phases' as you say.

Lizardviking wrote...

Seems most people disagree with me. But I think doing LOTSB pre suicide mission removes most of the punch behind it all, especially the picture scene.  Even if you withhold doing the reunion it still feels not so great because the romance is "secured".

I actually like both and I prefer post, but will try pre-SM next time. They both have their own benefits it seems.  I have multiple Shepards, so some will go pre and some post.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jlb524 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Seems most people disagree with me. But I think doing LOTSB pre suicide mission removes most of the punch behind it all, especially the picture scene.  Even if you withhold doing the reunion it still feels not so great because the romance is "secured".

I actually like both and I prefer post, but will try pre-SM next time. They both have their own benefits it seems.  I have multiple Shepards, so some will go pre and some post.

While I usually don't like adding drama/angst for the sake of it to something. I still feel that completing it early and securing the romance removes any real tension and drama from it, even if it is more happy. And as a result, the emotional payoff is smaller.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

Stealthy Giraffe wrote...

It seems as if the vendetta was used as the main reason in ME2 for her actions, but was then changed in LotSB, where it became more about repaying a debt to Feron. If she was able to take out the SB at the same time, great, but if not..."Get in, get Feron, get out...and kill anyone who tries to stop us". Then she mentions something about just getting Feron, and again at the end says all she wanted was to get Feron back. Her key focus seems to be to get Feron above all else. He saved her and Shepard, she needs to save him.

In spite of the DLC being all about 'saving Feron', I still always felt that realistically Liara would still hold some hard feelings for the Shadow Broker, and that part of her motivations still did remain to be about vengeneance.   Though, I will admit her main motivation was in saving Feron. and this was far more important than gaining possible vengeance against the Shadow Broker.

Here's my thoughts:

At the end of the comic, her goal was to save Feron. She wasn't trying to kill the Shadow Broker (though she hated that he tried to sell Shepard’s remains). But after 2 years of hard work, she never found any sign of Feron, or anything to confirm if he was dead or alive. And every day she found nothing, was another day he was doomed to die, or be tortured and interrogated; and not knowing was driving her mad. So she started to rush it, in order to get faster results.

Despite what she says, I don't think she made any dents to the Shadow Broker's business. No matter how hard she tried, she was never got any closer to finding the Shadow Broker or Feron. And it was because of that she started to grow a deep hatred for him.  And then she wanted to kill him. She figured if she couldn't find Feron (or if he was dead), she could at least avenge him.

And then she learns he's still alive, and rushes to save him.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that she grew an overwhelming hatred for the Shadow Broker, but her main goal was to either save Feron, or avenge him. Revenge was simply something she created over the years from not getting any results.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Mandalore242]

Since the first time I played the first one I've always had a thing for Liara. I was first shocked in how cold she was in ME2 until LOTSB came out and I was finally able to get my girl back.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Here's my thoughts:

At the end of the comic, her goal was to save Feron. She wasn't trying to kill the Shadow Broker (though she hated that he tried to sell Shepard’s remains). But after 2 years of hard work, she never found any sign of Feron, or anything to confirm if he was dead or alive. And every day she found nothing, was another day he was doomed to die, or be tortured and interrogated; and not knowing was driving her mad. So she started to rush it, in order to get faster results.

Despite what she says, I don't think she made any dents to the Shadow Broker's business. No matter how hard she tried, she was never got any closer to finding the Shadow Broker or Feron. And it was because of that she started to grow a deep hatred for him.  And then she wanted to kill him. She figured if she couldn't find Feron (or if he was dead), she could at least avenge him.

And then she learns he's still alive, and rushes to save him.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that she grew an overwhelming hatred for the Shadow Broker, but her main goal was to either save Feron, or avenge him. Revenge was simply something she created over the years from not getting any results.

That's seems like a reasonable analysis.  Yeah, her main goal was always to save Feron (or avenge him and Shepard). 

[TMA LIVE]

Here's a question: Do you guys prefer Liara telling about saving your body after the Observer Assignment, or when you give her the data from Cerberus? Because I'm a bit conflicted by it. When she tells you after the Observer quest, she's close to tears and gives the best performance, but Shepard just cares about the mission, and doesn't try to comfort her. And they don't talk for a while after that. It seems wrong. While when she tells you during the beginning of LOTSB, it isn't as good, but at least you two run off to do something instead of not talking for months.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Here's a question: Do you guys prefer Liara telling about saving your body after the Observer Assignment, or when you give her the data from Cerberus? Because I'm a bit conflicted by it. When she tells you after the Observer quest, she's close to tears and gives the best performance, but Shepard just cares about the mission, and doesn't try to comfort her. And they don't talk for a while after that. It seems wrong. While when she tells you during the beginning of LOTSB, it isn't as good, but at least you two run off to do something instead of not talking for months.

I prefer not to have the "I couldn't let you go" line. Alis Hills does a good job during that scene, and makes it quite touching. Unfortunatly it's all ruined by one of Shepard's worst OOC moments in ME2. So I prefer for it not to happen, it also feels like that what LOTSB wants.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Here's a question: Do you guys prefer Liara telling about saving your body after the Observer Assignment, or when you give her the data from Cerberus? Because I'm a bit conflicted by it. When she tells you after the Observer quest, she's close to tears and gives the best performance, but Shepard just cares about the mission, and doesn't try to comfort her. And they don't talk for a while after that. It seems wrong. While when she tells you during the beginning of LOTSB, it isn't as good, but at least you two run off to do something instead of not talking for months.

I've always had her tell me after the Observer quest.  I do love that one line.

Next time, I think I'll do it the opposite, just to compare and see if I prefer to have it happen during LotSB.

It is incredibly odd and awkward how it's handled in vanilla ME2, with Shepard sitting there like a brick.

[Zulu_DFA]

jlb524 wrote...

[*]What do you think Liara's role in ME3 will be like?

[*]Liara's still an expert on the Protheans and their extinction. Do you think this will aid Shepard again in ME3, or no? Will Liara ever go back to her archaeologist roots after ME3 is said and done with?
[*]What was Liara's childhood like being the daughter of a powerful Asari Matriarch?[/list]

Liara will rescue Shepard from prison and guide him through the first part of the game, which will take them back to Ilos, where Liara's expertise in all things Prothean will be of use.

Liara will become a squadmate. Possibly a box cover character (begging your pardons, as a hot blue alien busty chick)

Later in the game it will turn out that she works for (is being manipulated by) TIM, which may become a source of some moral controversy and even play out somehow into the final Big Choice of the trilogy.

Liara's difficult situation as a pureblood daughter of a traitorous matriarch may have something to do with her renegade leanings.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 décembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[jlb524]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Liara's difficult situation as a pureblood daughter of a traitorous matriarch may have something to do with her renegade leanings.

I've never thought of that before.  Though, the 'traitorous' part is new for Benezia, but Liara would have had to deal with growing up pureblood, while also having unfair expectations placed on her as the daughter of a powerful matriarch.

I think she definitely has a bit of a rebellious streak and perhaps even feel alienated from others, and has difficultie's 'connecting' with others and making friends.

[TMA LIVE]

Why do you think Liara chose Illium as her place to do business (besides because the DEV's wanted to make an asari world, and thought she'd fit in)?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Why do you think Liara chose Illium as her place to do business (besides because the DEV's wanted to make an asari world, and thought she'd fit in)?

Due to it's more corrupt nature. I would imagine it's far easier to break the law on Illium without catching attention, something she must have done several times.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Liara will become a squadmate. Possibly a box cover character (begging your pardons, as a hot blue alien busty chick)

Isn't Liara the only squadmember able to be on the box cover without "breaking" canon, unless they add new squadmates.

Or perhaps ME3 will ditch the "Shepard with malien lead and token love interest"?

Modifié par Lizardviking, 09 décembre 2010 - 10:55 .

[Captain Iglo]

Its a place of High society..with a lot of money. And where the big money is are definitley a lot of people with connections to the Shadow Broker to find.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 09 décembre 2010 - 10:55 .

[jlb524]

Perhaps it was also easier for her to blend in on Illium as well. It's a crowded world, plus there are many other Info Brokers I'm sure.