8541 réponses à ce sujet

[kraidy1117]

Illuim is a trading planet, and has little laws, thus there would be more SB agents on that planet then there would be anywhere else. Plus since it's an asari planet she wouldn't stand out that much compared to if she went to a turian or salarian planet.

[Skyline_Stanza]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Illuim is a trading planet, and has little laws, thus there would be more SB agents on that planet then there would be anywhere else. Plus since it's an asari planet she wouldn't stand out that much compared to if she went to a turian or salarian planet.

True. Liara probably went to Illium because she knew what the world was like, and that with little laws involved, she could get away with things she couldn't do on other worlds, things that involved tracking the Shadow Broker through agents or bits of data like Shepard helped her out with.

[TMA LIVE]

I'm with the idea that Illium would be the only place that would allow her to work as an information broker right off the bat, and going after the Shadow Broker without worrying about the law.

[rvayda141]

Idk if it was explained in the comic, but I wonder how she actually got started as an information broker, what she did to build up her network. She had high end people like Kasumi doing jobs for her and she apparently found some of the SB's lairs so she obviously became very successful in the business in a pretty short amount of time. Maybe Cerberus helped her get set up to keep her out of their hair while they worked on Shepard, althought if that were the case I wonder if Liara would have willingly accepted their help at that point or if they would have had to pull strings for her without her knowing

[jlb524]

That's completely up in the air, rvayda. It was never explained in the comics. We have no clue how Liara really got started. It's possible Cerberus helped, though there's no indication of it. I don't think they needed to keep Liara out of their hair as she seemed willing to go off and do her own thing while Cerberus worked on the body.



Another possibility is that she used funds inherited from Benezia to get started, and also used some of Benezia's influence and her contacts to really get the business going. Also, she gained a bit of a reputation for being on Shepard's team and helping her stop Saren.

[pacer90]

Didn't she say something about after saren's death people wanted to be her friend? or am i imagining this from like the 230598235 fan fics i read

[rvayda141]

No I definitely remember her saying that in game pacer, I think it's right when you first meet her on Illium and she was explaining what she's been up too. And I definitely know what you mean with the fanfic thing, I get stuff crossed once in a while

[jlb524]

Yeah, she does say that and I believe she attributes that to her connection to Shepard and being one of the team that took Saren down. That helped a lot I'm sure. Other than that, we don't know anything about what happened those two years. So, fan fic (and imagination) fills in the details.



I too always mix up canon with fan fic or my own head canon.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

That's completely up in the air, rvayda. It was never explained in the comics. We have no clue how Liara really got started. It's possible Cerberus helped, though there's no indication of it. I don't think they needed to keep Liara out of their hair as she seemed willing to go off and do her own thing while Cerberus worked on the body.

Another possibility is that she used funds inherited from Benezia to get started, and also used some of Benezia's influence and her contacts to really get the business going. Also, she gained a bit of a reputation for being on Shepard's team and helping her stop Saren.

I believe that, and because she's said to be a respected information broker. My guess is she isn't a big money maker, but is known to turn down the right-wrong people: Like not helping batarian terrorists get blue prints on how to hi-jack ships. Same with being efficient,  and isn't a backstabber.

I also believe she had to work another job as an administrator for the Nos Astra port, since her office says Administration. I believe it's because Illium is very expensive place to live, and she had to do a lot within 2 years. Including getting expensive information on the Shadow Broker.

[drwells123]

Welcome to Friday

http://www.fanfictio...6431630/11/Duet

[Zulu_DFA]

jlb524 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Liara's difficult situation as a pureblood daughter of a traitorous matriarch may have something to do with her renegade leanings.

I've never thought of that before.  Though, the 'traitorous' part is new for Benezia, but Liara would have had to deal with growing up pureblood, while also having unfair expectations placed on her as the daughter of a powerful matriarch.

I think she definitely has a bit of a rebellious streak and perhaps even feel alienated from others, and has difficultie's 'connecting' with others and making friends.

Why do you think she is such a pathologically reclusive hermit? This "pureblood" stuff is a serious issue it seems. Just look at how Vasir speaks of Liara in LotSB, as you search her appartment.

But by Human standards, Liara is a Krogan quadroon, lol! "Kill anyone who tries to stop us!"

Also, I wonder, who might Liara's another "grand dad" be? A Turian? And wasn't there something more to the relationship between Benezia and Saren? How long might they have gone back?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 décembre 2010 - 08:26 .

[AlexMBrennan]

I somewhat doubt that Saren had much contact with Benezia before encountering the reaper (30ish years before ME1) - why should they? He may have been the Council's top agent, but I doubt that many Spectres have religious philosophers on their staff.

[bjdbwea]

Lizardviking wrote...

I still feel that completing it early and securing the romance removes any real tension and drama from it, even if it is more happy. And as a result, the emotional payoff is smaller.

I agree with this. And I also think that the picture scene makes more sense if you haven't completed LotSB before. I think that it's a better connected story that way, even more so of course if you are able to imagine the missing scenes.

Additionally, I never really liked most of what happens in the main game of ME 2, nor most changes in gameplay. LotSB has given me a reason to still play ME 2 at all. But that's another reason why I like to play LotSB last in a playthrough: If there wasn't this amazing part of the story to look forward to, I would feel little incentive to continue playing ME 2.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 10 décembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[pacer90]

drwells123 wrote...

Welcome to Friday

http://www.fanfictio...6431630/11/Duet

You are like clockwork with these updates. Mine has taken a back seat to engineering finals... apparently I haven't kept up all year there's so many things I haven't even seen before

[jlb524]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Also, I wonder, who might Liara's another "grand dad" be? A Turian? And wasn't there something more to the relationship between Benezia and Saren? How long might they have gone back?

Hmmm...I don't know.  I got the impression Benezia knew Saren enough to know what his plans were with the geth and to attempt to stop him (this backfired, obviously).  Benezia's parents could be anything, an asari/asari, asari/turian, asari/salarian....we really have no indication.

[jlb524]

bjdbwea wrote...

I agree with this. And I also think that the picture scene makes more sense if you haven't completed LotSB before. I think it's a better connected story that way, even more so of course if you are able to imagine the missing scenes.

Additionally, I never really liked most of what happens in the main game of ME 2, nor most changes in gameplay. LotSB has given me a reason to still play ME 2 at all. But that's another reason why I like to play LotSB last in a playthrough: If there wasn't this amazing part of the story to look forward to, I would feel little incentive to continue playing ME 2.

I changed my mind again.  I remembered why I prefer post-SM mission LotSB and cabin scene.  Pre-SM, the threat of the Collectors (and Shepard's possible death) looms in the near future and this cloud may hang over the time Liara and Shepard spend together pre-SM.  Post SM, this is gone, and the only 'cloud' remaining is the Reapers.  However, they aren't coming any time soon (that we know of) so this tension is gone and I feel the two can relax a bit more and enjoy the night.

Modifié par jlb524, 10 décembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I believe that, and because she's said to be a respected information broker. My guess is she isn't a big money maker, but is known to turn down the right-wrong people: Like not helping batarian terrorists get blue prints on how to hi-jack ships. Same with being efficient,  and isn't a backstabber.

No, she wasn't as successful as she could have been (according to Nyxeris).  Nyxeris only mentions that Liara let her 'personal goals' get in the way of gaining even more power.  It's possible Liara refused to aid some people or groups, as you've described.  Or, she was too busy chasing leads instead of chasing money.

TMA LIVE wrote...
I also believe she had to work another job as an administrator for the Nos Astra port, since her office says Administration. I believe it's because Illium is very expensive place to live, and she had to do a lot within 2 years. Including getting expensive information on the Shadow Broker.

I assumed Liara got a ton of money from Benezia, and this is how she was able to buy a nice apartment on Illium and start her business there.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

jlb524 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

I agree with this. And I also think that the picture scene makes more sense if you haven't completed LotSB before. I think it's a better connected story that way, even more so of course if you are able to imagine the missing scenes.

Additionally, I never really liked most of what happens in the main game of ME 2, nor most changes in gameplay. LotSB has given me a reason to still play ME 2 at all. But that's another reason why I like to play LotSB last in a playthrough: If there wasn't this amazing part of the story to look forward to, I would feel little incentive to continue playing ME 2.

I changed my mind again.  I remembered why I prefer post-SB mission LotSB and cabin scene.  Pre-SM, the threat of the Collectors (and Shepard's possible death) looms in the near future and this cloud may hang over the time Liara and Shepard spend together pre-SM.  Post SM, this is gone, and the only 'cloud' remaining is the Reapers.  However, they aren't coming any time soon (that we know of) so this tension is gone and I feel the two can relax a bit more and enjoy the night.

I disagree. Most of the drama regarding the romance in ME2 (maingame that is) is not the question if Shepard will survive the mission, but rather if there's anything left between them. Doing LOTSB answers that question which removes all the drama (if done pre-suicide).

Unless you made a typo and meant post-suicide mission instead of post-SB.

[jbauck]

bjdbwea wrote...
Additionally, I never really liked most of what happens in the main game of ME 2, nor most changes in gameplay. LotSB has given me a reason to still play ME 2 at all. But that's another reason why I like to play LotSB last in a playthrough: If there wasn't this amazing part of the story to look forward to, I would feel little incentive to continue playing ME 2.

I like this discussion - it's interesting.  I actually did like the game mechanics changes in ME2 and on that level, never had a problem playing ME2 over and over, but I the story was a fail for me pre-LotSB.  Most of my Sheps are the same with minor variations (Paragade, because sometimes even Paragons don't have time for this crap), but dying, losing everyone, and then ending up working for Cerberus was just ... kind of awful. 

This is probably going to sound a little bizarre, but I felt most of my Sheps would be pissed, bitter, and somewhat depressed by the circumstances, and I ended up playing ME2 more renegade than I would normally get - because my Sheps just stopped caring.  They're all still mostly Paragon, and care about the crew and saving the colonists, but everyone else can pretty much go jump in a lake. 

Most of my Sheps don't even care about whether or not they, themselves, survive the SM - just the colonists and the crew - not because I see them as suicidal, really, but in a way they feel like they're still dead.  Playing LotSB mid-game lets me "fix" my Shep, by giving her some hope that she can get away from Cerberus and stop the Reapers with Liara's help as the SB - once this Collector nonsense is over, which "fixes" the rest of ME2 for me - because I'm playing a Shep who cares again. 

Which is, now that I'm really thinking about it and analyzing my own playthroughs, why Liara becoming the SB is extra awesome - it gives Shep an Exit Plan to getting out from under Cerberus, other than just telling TIM to shove it without any Plan B on how she's going to get the resources to stop the Reapers.

Though between everyone's thoughts on this, I'm convinced to give pre-SM LotSB with post-SM cabin scene a try on my next run of ME2.  That'll leave the romance mostly unresolved, but still has the "I can ditch Cerberus and work with Liara" fix that I need to re-paragon my Shep.  Though, it's going to take me awhile to get to it, as I have already similarly been convinced to give Therum-Feros-Virmire-Noveria a try, so I'll have to start with ME1.  Oh, the horror.

[jlb524]

Lizardviking wrote...

Unless you made a typo and meant post-suicide mission instead of post-SB.

Yes, I made a typo, I meant I prefer it 'post-SM'.  Oops, will fix now.

Modifié par jlb524, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:00 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

If I may, I'd like to discuss the extent of Liara's combat training and proficiency. I think it's quite interesting that Wrex, an aged and powerful Krogan Battlemaster and an individual who has fought a large amount of people in his thousand year life, comments that Liara is a powerful biotic. I've always assumed that Liara is quite precociously powerful, and that her biotic abilities are far greater than other Maidens her age. I think she would have received specialised training from Matriarch Benezia, whom is obviously one of the most powerful biotics in the galaxy. Additionally, I think that Liara would have received commando training from Benezia, or perhaps her numerous disciples. As the daughter of a powerful and influential Matriarch, Liara would have been targeted by kidnappers eager to exploit Benezia for ransom money. As a result, it would have been a necessity that Liara be able to protect and defend herself.

Furthermore, I'm not sure if biotic ability is hereditary or not, but I think that Liara may have inherited Benezia's exceptional biotic abilities. When combining this with the specialised training that Liara has received, it's quite easy to see why she is an experienced and capable combatant when Shepard first meets her in ME1.

Of course, this isn't even taking into account the fact that Liara spent decades fighting off bands of mercenaries and privateers whilst on remote digsites...

Liara does seem far stronger than most other asari. And don't asari also get stronger biotics with age? If so, then it wouldn't be far off if she surpasses even Samara when she reaches the same age (around 700).

Her biotic training could easily be comparable to something a commando would recive. But also keep in mind the fact that she lacked any weapon talents (in ME1). Shows to me that the training she recived were not with "kicking ass and stealing names" in mind but rather simply self defence.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 10 décembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[jlb524]

Sentinel Shepard lacked weapon training in ME1. I don't think you can use that game play mechanic to make any guesses about Liara's training.



I was always under the impression that most asari are trained (from youth) to use their biotics in a deadly manner. Liara, being from a wealthy and powerful family, would probably have received the best training. Liara can also use firearms as well as most other Mass Effect squad mates, so I always assumed she received some training there as well. She did also need these skills out on her digs (when attacked by pirates and mercs) so would have kept up on them, practicing them in her spare time (in my mind this is what she did do).



I do believe biotics would be hereditary from the mother's side only and this may also give Liara an edge over other asari her age. She should get more powerful as she ages, becoming probably one of the most powerful biotics (if not the most powerful) in the galaxy some day.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I believe that, and because she's said to be a respected information broker. My guess is she isn't a big money maker, but is known to turn down the right-wrong people: Like not helping batarian terrorists get blue prints on how to hi-jack ships. Same with being efficient,  and isn't a backstabber.

No, she wasn't as successful as she could have been (according to Nyxeris).  Nyxeris only mentions that Liara let her 'personal goals' get in the way of gaining even more power.  It's possible Liara refused to aid some people or groups, as you've described.  Or, she was too busy chasing leads instead of chasing money.

TMA LIVE wrote...
I also believe she had to work another job as an administrator for the Nos Astra port, since her office says Administration. I believe it's because Illium is very expensive place to live, and she had to do a lot within 2 years. Including getting expensive information on the Shadow Broker.

I assumed Liara got a ton of money from Benezia, and this is how she was able to buy a nice apartment on Illium and start her business there.

That's possible, but I think that can only go so far, since her money wasn't unlimited. Not only was she trying to start a business on one of the most expensive planets to live on, but she was also trying to compete with people like the Shadow Broker, and doing so for 2 years.

Anyways, that's the only reason I can think of for why she's working in an Administration Office. That, or it's suppose to be a cover.

[TMA LIVE]

I'm still debating if I should do LOTSB before the Collector Base, and the Cabin Scene after, since in LOTSB you're still claiming you're working for Cerberus.