564 réponses à ce sujet

[RussianSpy27]

 I see people complaining about how all these new features of DA:2 are taking away from DA:O, but why do you think all of this is going on? Is it really because (1) the developers are over-focusing on sound/video vs dialogue options and imagination, or rather, (2) because for THIS PARTICULAR game, with one protagonist, this is a better route to take? 

Let's reason through this together. DA:O was a huge hit. ME2 was a huge hit. The developers know as well as you and I why each game was a huge hit. Perhaps ME2's reviews were more favorable overall, though it was not universally so (For anyone who can read Russian, see Russian mega gaming site http://www.ag.ru/rev...gon_age_origins calls DA:O masterful and one of the best RPGs for its plot, characters and depth; ME2 is called a "'B' blockbuster hit worthy of a single run"). 

Could it be that EA corporate heads coldly looked at the economic statistics and told BioWare, "ok that ME2 toy sold more units, make sure the DA2 toy sells at least as many; good bye"? Everything is possible...the company naturally wants to make money, but I think it's quite unlikely for the changes to be dictated mostly by the $. 
- Bioware knows why fans liked DA:O, the uniqueness of origins, how it is meant to be more of a classic RPG than Mass Effect, how multiple unvoiced dialogue options play their role at expanding conversational options. They know all of it. They're smarter than many of us and are some of the most responsive developers in the industry. They could have easily stuck to the same format as DA:O and with good marketing would sell more units than the original. 

What's happening, IMO, is that they're trying something new with the series. Yes, they're creating one character instead of 6, yes they're going toward the "more like a movie" route, but they also believe it will work, be very enjoyable and appealing. No one is saying that future releases will not render something similar to DA:O. DA:O was a story of a nameless Warden, while DA2 is a story of a known hero...I trust there'll be many more stories to tell in the fantasy world of DA that will involve more than one format that will not be disappointing. 

Modifié par RussianSpy27, 08 décembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Crimson Invictus]

A firm belief in a warped sense of entitlement seems to be the driving force of many.

[Atakuma]

They are complaining because they dislike the direction of the game.

[ErichHartmann]

Atakuma wrote...

They are complaining because they dislike the direction of the game.

Essentially this.  Some people hate change. 

[Aggie Punbot]

The fact that we're 3 months away from release and have not seen a demo of actual gameplay footage does not bode well. There have been demos released to a tiny fraction of a percentage of the fanbase but Bioware has gone on record as saying that those demos are not indicative of how the gameplay will work with the finished product. I suspect that the reason that polished gameplay hasn't been shown yet is because it's not done yet, and the fact that there is so little time left before launch indicates that it's being rushed terribly, so the chances of it being buggy and/or broken is quite high.

Also, you say they know why DA:O was successful. Then why are they purposely removing features that were a main reason as to why it was so successful in the first place?

I've pre-ordered the game and will be giving it the ol' college try; but the utter lack of any real gameplay footage that everyone can see is worrying. Lack of Origins? Understandable. Voiced protagonist? Looking forward to it, actually. Radically changing a character's looks, voice and backstory and expecting us to believe it's the same person from DA:O? Worrisome. Completely redesigning races from the original game? Also worrisome, but time will tell if it's actually a good thing or not.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 08 décembre 2010 - 01:41 .

[Atakuma]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Also, you say they know why DA:O was successful. Then why are they purposely removing features that were a main reason as to why it was so successful in the first place?

No one can really make a definitive claim as to which features made the game successful.

[blothulfur]

Because we ware the ides of march.

[Ortaya Alevli]

You're asking a question which is worthy of a social psychology major and then some.

Legitimate complaints aside, many complainers appear to have liked the game immensely and now feel an urge towards treating it like their own child, manipulating it as they see fit and, on occasion, taking advantage of a good opportunity to be a major putz in public. If you try to look into it with an assumption that people are expected to approach everything with an unwavering sense of rationality, you'll find yourself at a loss shortly. There's no becalming the rage.

[slimgrin]

They are worried over radical changes made to the sequel.

And these unassuming threads asking the most obvious flame-baiting questions crack me up.

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 décembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Atakuma]

The internet is where nerds go to hulk out.

[Nekator]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

They are complaining because they dislike the direction of the game.

Essentially this.  Some people hate change. 

Especially as long as the change goes to a Hack´n Slay Diablo Clone....

[Revan312]

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

A firm belief in a warped sense of entitlement seems to be the driving force of many.

:devil:Blind Defender-----I----------------------Blind Complainer:devil:
                                    ^
                    Liana Nighthawk  +1
                      towards defender!

jking jking..

Modifié par Revan312, 08 décembre 2010 - 01:56 .

[rabbitchannel]

You joined in 2009! You should know by now that complaining is Bioware forums tradition.

blothulfur wrote...

Because we ware the ides of march.

Minus 7 days?

Modifié par rabbitchannel, 08 décembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[Atakuma]

Nekator wrote...
Especially as long as the change goes to a Hack´n Slay Diablo Clone....

Well then, I guess it's a good thing that it's not.

[TJPags]

Why are people complaining?  I think it's obvious:

1.  Some of the changes in art style, we don't like, or see as pointless.  Sure, the hurlocks look a little more bestial, that may be good, but did they really need to be changed?  We have 2 returning chacters who look very different then they did before - why?  Will that happen with any returning character?

2.  Your PC is limited to a human.  I think we understand the reasons for this, but some people (not me) prefer to play dwarves or elves.  Now, they can't.  That bothers them, since the first game in this series allowed it.

3.  The voiced PC.  Related to #2 (a large part of the reason the PC is limited to being human).  Some people love that idea.  Some don't.

4.  The dialogue wheel/paraphrase/intent icon system.  Some of us haven't dealt with it before, and we're concerned about how it will work.  Some have used it before (ME or ME2) and loved it.  Some used it before and didn't like it.
5.  The companion inventories.  Seems like they have static armor and possibly static weapons.  Some people don't like that, either.  I'll add to this one questions about whether Hawke can change his/her armor, as well.  Some people like to change armor, so this bothers them.
6.  The lack of actual gameplay footage, compared to the footage that was released.  Some people saw the old demo footage, and thought it looked like a hack and slash game.  Some people think this means the game will be a hack and slash game.  Some don't think that, but still don't like the combat footage.  Some love it.  Yes, we know it's old, we know it's not the final version, we know it came from the exagerated story part of the game.  But we have nothing else to base it on.  And because it's slightly over a month to the SE pre-order deadline, some people are very concerned that they won't ever be able to see footage before having to make a pre-order decision.

7.  PC issues.  There may not be a toolset.  There may not be a character creator.  There won't be an isometric camera.  These things are important - sometimes, very important - to some of the PC players.

Now, a lot of this is based on personal preference, but then, isn't everything?  Some people like their steak well-done - some like it rare.  People who like it rare will complain if it's well done, even if it's otherwise fine.

Also, some of these concerns may turn out not to be justified in the end.  But see #6 - there's nothing available now to alleviate any of these concerns.

So, I think that, in a nutshell, is why people are complaining.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Being charitable, some of it has to do with preconceived notions of what DA2 was going to look like. People expected it to be a stricter sequel, still in the "spirit" of Baldur's Gate (whatever the hell that means to each individual), and it's not. So they complain.



However, I'm inclined to be slightly less charitable. BioWare's sequels often involve huge overhauls of the mechanics and story style. Just look at the difference between BG1 and BG2. The difference between ME1 and ME2. There was no reason to expect anything different of DA2.

[slimgrin]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Being charitable, some of it has to do with preconceived notions of what DA2 was going to look like. People expected it to be a stricter sequel, still in the "spirit" of Baldur's Gate (whatever the hell that means to each individual), and it's not. So they complain.

However, I'm inclined to be slightly less charitable. BioWare's sequels often involve huge overhauls of the mechanics and story style. Just look at the difference between BG1 and BG2. The difference between ME1 and ME2. There was no reason to expect anything different of DA2.

Good point. One I've brought up before myself. BIoware goes bold in their sequels.

[Ortaya Alevli]

slimgrin wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Being charitable, some of it has to do with preconceived notions of what DA2 was going to look like. People expected it to be a stricter sequel, still in the "spirit" of Baldur's Gate (whatever the hell that means to each individual), and it's not. So they complain.

However, I'm inclined to be slightly less charitable. BioWare's sequels often involve huge overhauls of the mechanics and story style. Just look at the difference between BG1 and BG2. The difference between ME1 and ME2. There was no reason to expect anything different of DA2.

Good point. One I've brought up before myself. BIoware goes bold in their sequels.

Yep. I mean, just look at Jade Empire 2.

I want to go to the corner and cry.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...
Yep. I mean, just look at Jade Empire 2.

I want to go to the corner and cry.

Dammit.  Now I'm sad.  Look what you've wrought!  

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

They are complaining because they dislike the direction of the game.

Essentially this.  Some people hate change. 

*ponders whether to quote a line a fan favourite said near the end of the last installment of DAO then remembers what happened the last time he did that so decides not to*



To answer the OP question in another fashion, because some people have got nothing better to do than complain, it is made even more funny when they come in saying they aren't going to bother getting the game, then pretty much continue after saying so to make constant barbed comments about it. When surely the obvious idea would be that if you aren't bothered about a game you just wouldn't bother talking about it anymore.

Before any of the non-believers respond to that with any potential but if we don't complain the devs won't listen and learn to improve in the next game I'll point out a comment I think a few of the devs have said to such a comment like that. Which is that they heard you the first time you said it, there is no need for you to keep coming in making the comment. All you are doing is making a fool of yourselves for us (the believers) to laugh at. Not to mention your tears sustaining the devs.

*ponders if that truly is a good or bad thing*

Actually forget what I said, carry on complaining, it's fun to see you wallowing in such a fashion.

*puts his 'Team Bioware' cap on and starts waving his 'Team Bioware' flag*

All hail the most excellent Bioware, may they long strive to make good games and talk with us game fans.

I wouldn't call my faith in Bioware blind, they have done me no wrong in any game they have made so far, so I feel justified in my defence of them.

[Revan312]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

I wouldn't call my faith in Bioware blind, they have done me no wrong in any game they have made so far, so I feel justified in my defence of them.

Ignoring the rest of your rhetoric, I'll comment on the above..

As someone who was sorely disappointed in ME2, I think some of my worries are justified as Bioware has already fumbled, and while I agree that many are extremely hyperbolic in their doom saying, people such as yourself are just as ridiculous in your pure illogical assumption that no matter what Bioware makes it's the word of God.

Both extremes are annoying and ultimately hurt the development and innovation of games. Apocalyptic complainers give the rest of the criticism a bad wrap and the blind knights of defense only help to make devs think they're doing everything right.

Plus I don't believe either group, as I know the ground worshipers have to have some criticism and doubt and the complainers wouldn't even be here if they hated the idea of the game and/or the changes made as much as they claim.

Modifié par Revan312, 08 décembre 2010 - 02:25 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Hate change? No I don't think so. They simple hate what the changes are doing. Please learn the difference.

It might not be a bad idea to see how all the changes work together in practice before jumping the gun as to what the changes are doing.  Taking things in isolation before we've seen significant amounts of gameplay footage is a good way to jump to conclusions.

For example, in the run-up to ME2 I learned that it implemented an ammo system, required me to ACTUALLY AIM, and had additional weapons for my poor brain to handle.  I was really, really worried.  I'm TERRIBLE at shooters.  Patently awful.  ME1's bizarre system worked for me because I DIDN'T SHOOT.

Cue ME2.  There's ammo.  There's aiming, for both powers and for the gun.  There's regenerating health and shield cooldown and universal power cooldown.  All gameplay changes which I thought would work against my paltry skills.  I get ME2 and...it all works.  Individually, those changes sounded terrifying.  But in implementation, they actually worked for me in concert and improved the gameplay.  Now I happily play ME2 on Insanity.