564 réponses à ce sujet

[MysterD]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'll leave the nitpicking over your other points to someone else and just address the flat out wrong bits.

MysterD wrote...

3. Approval system for companions are gone;

Categorically false.  The one-way approval system has been revamped and replaced with a two-way Friend/Rivalry system.

MysterD wrote...

5. And strategic command stacking are NOT going to be in ANY version of DA2 (thus making the game more action-orientated than before).

If you're claiming this was in DA:O, it wasn't in the version of it I played.  Abilities appear to work in precisely the same fashion in that you enable one at a time.  Also, it's been a really long time but did Baldur's Gate 1-2 have this?  I know KOTOR did.

Regular attack commands in DAO and BG games - they'll just keep attacking the same enemy, until you tell them otherwise.
This doesn't ring true for mages, of course.

Modifié par MysterD, 09 décembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

MysterD wrote...

Regular attack commands in DAO and BG games - they'll just keep attacking the same enemy, until you tell them otherwise.
This doesn't ring true for mages, of course.

And your reason to believe this has changed in DA:2 is...?

Here's a link to the developer comments in the thread regarding the new approval system.

[DPB]

MysterD wrote...

Regular attack commands in DAO and BG games - they'll just keep attacking the same enemy, until you tell them otherwise.
This doesn't ring true for mages, of course.

That has only changed on the console versions, and even then it can still be ordered via the radial menu. On the PC version of DA2 it works exactly the same as DAO.

[Morroian]

MysterD wrote...

Regular attack commands in DAO and BG games - they'll just keep attacking the same enemy, until you tell them otherwise.

Auto attack will still be in DA2.

[Vylan Antagonist]

Morroian wrote...
Auto attack will still be in DA2.

On the PC, supposedly. On the console, I think you may be pressing a button for each attack. Or maybe it's a toggle for either.

It certainly doesn't look like it still features pausable 'real time' combat, but I could be wrong. I definitely hope that I am. It looks very arcadey- Ultimate Alliance, Shadows over Mystara, etc. Buttons for basic attacks, move around to dodge, and unleash special attacks as they become available. And yeah, that might be fun if it's done well. But I like tactical combat. I *like* chess. I'm in the manual for Jagged Alliance 2. DA:O was the last major release featuring that style of play and it seems like the hope to see it perpetuated in a sequel has been put to rest. That's kind of a bummer for me and it makes it more difficult to get excited about a new beat 'em up when it seems to come at the expense of another Infinite Engine kinda game. I guess it's vogue to say that makes me an entitled whiner. Welp.

[upsettingshorts]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

On the PC, supposedly.

You mean on the PC definitely.

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

On the console, I think you may be pressing a button for each attack. Or maybe it's a toggle for either.

On the console you push buttons to execute basic attacks for reasons Mike Laidlaw outlined in the link posted above. 
But you can also order auto-attack using the radial menu.

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

It certainly doesn't look like it still features pausable 'real time' combat, but I could be wrong. I definitely hope that I am. It looks very arcadey- Ultimate Alliance, Shadows over Mystara, etc. Buttons for basic attacks, move around to dodge, and unleash special attacks as they become available.

I keep seeing these "it looks like it doesn't feature pausable combat" arguments and I still don't know where they're coming from besides the crappy leaked videos where no-one bothers to even try it as it's on Easy and its the prologue.  If you're talking about "kiting" with the moving to dodge comment, that was equally possible in DA:O - if you're talking about an active dodge ability, that isn't in the game.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:20 .

[Ziggeh]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

DA:O was the last major release featuring that style of play and it seems like the hope to see it perpetuated in a sequel has been put to rest.

Laidlaw has said that it will play very much the same, but faster. That said, in that video he did sort of say it would be quite different at the same tme, so I can see where uncertainty is coming from (I tend to trust statements made here over ones made for marketing purposes), but I yet to see anything that precludes the system that DA:O had.

edit: we have seen people chaining attacks more convincingly though, so I'm kind of hoping that it will allow you to drop the difficulty and just go ahead and wail on things if the combat starts to get repetitive (coughdeeproadscough). That was something DA:O didn't really allow, but I can see how it could fit within it's system.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:33 .

[Vylan Antagonist]

Upsettingshorts wrote...


I keep seeing these "it looks like it doesn't feature pausable combat" arguments and I still don't know where they're coming from besides the crappy leaked videos where no-one bothers to even try it as it's on Easy and its the prologue.  If you're talking about "kiting" with the moving to dodge comment, that was equally possible in DA:O - if you're talking about an active dodge ability, that isn't in the game.

That's the only gameplay we have seen so far. It's more reasonable, I think, to base assumptions (and they are assumptions either way) on evidence seen than evidence not seen.

And while there is no dodge button or key press combo, the difference in toon speed is tremendous. That was a feature, naturally doing away with the interminable shuffling and all that. It will absolutely enable dodging in the same way character dodged in Final Fight, Double Dragon, and all the other Beat Em Ups I cut my teeth on as a growing lad in the 80s. When toons move at those speeds, you 'dodge' by moving away from telegraphed attacks and managing your angle of approach. In DA:O, this wasn't really possible; Much has been made lately of the attack landing from across the room. Apparently that doesn't happen any more, and frankly, it can't. If it could, it wouldn't be a satisfying 'Fight like a Spartan' experience. Players would only have an illusion of visceral active involvement in the proceedings, and that's what the whole 'Press Button, See Awesome Yesterday' seems to be working to dispel.

A game can't be all things to all people. At some point, it needs to focus to excel at any one aspect. I think that knowledge very much factored into the gameplay design. Might the game somehow play out in pausable tactical combat precisely as DA:O did, while still offering the Fight Like A Spartan experience for the players that don't want to pause or use tactics? My magic 8-ball says that outcome is extremely unlikely.

[Ziggeh]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

When toons move at those speeds, you 'dodge' by moving away from telegraphed attacks and managing your angle of approach. In DA:O, this wasn't really possible; Much has been made lately of the attack landing from across the room. Apparently that doesn't happen any more, and frankly, it can't. If it could, it wouldn't be a satisfying 'Fight like a Spartan' experience. Players would only have an illusion of visceral active involvement in the proceedings, and that's what the whole 'Press Button, See Awesome Yesterday' seems to be working to dispel.

I was reading the other day that the way this was resolved was to place the damage up front rather than at the end of the animation.

Presumably that would  mean anything thats in it's path gets hit, even if they've moved out of the way before the animation gets to them, because the damage has already been done.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:39 .

[upsettingshorts]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

That's the only gameplay we have seen so far. It's more reasonable, I think, to base assumptions (and they are assumptions either way) on evidence seen than evidence not seen.

Information must still be interpreted.  I don't really understand that interpretation.  Though I see where you're coming from with the part of your post I'm not quoting.

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

A game can't be all things to all people. At some point, it needs to focus to excel at any one aspect. I think that knowledge very much factored into the gameplay design. Might the game somehow play out in pausable tactical combat precisely as DA:O did, while still offering the Fight Like A Spartan experience for the players that don't want to pause or use tactics? My magic 8-ball says that outcome is extremely unlikely.

I just don't see the issues you raise as being essentially mutually exclusive, though some changes (for example, the pros and cons of the voiced protagonist boil down to things I don't think are reconcilable) in DA2 are. 

Edit: Interesting.

ziggehunderslash wrote...

I was reading the other day that the way this was resolved was to place the damage up front rather than at the end of the animation.

Presumably that would  mean anything thats in it's path gets hit, even if they've moved out of the way before the animation gets to them, because the damage has already been done.

Do you have a link to this?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[MIke_18]

Because this game seems heavily influenced by EA. It's like Bioware isn't doing the game it's supposed to be doing for it's lifelong fans, but instead is chasing after Fable and Halo fans. Every decision made about this game is about



a) How do we save more money



How do we sell more copies



It has nothing to do with the quality of the game.

[upsettingshorts]

MIke_18 wrote...

Because this game seems heavily influenced by EA. It's like Bioware isn't doing the game it's supposed to be doing for it's lifelong fans, but instead is chasing after Fable and Halo fans. Every decision made about this game is about

a) How do we save more money

How do we sell more copies

It has nothing to do with the quality of the game.

Indeed!  A great example of

a) Saving money
 Selling more copies

and ignoring the quality of the game was when Electronic Arts cancelled NBA Elite 11 and canned the team at EA Canada for producing a god-awful embarassment of a poorly polished and unlikely to be well-received game .  The game sold 0 copies, and the entire development was a sunk cost.  They didn't allow a terrible, terrible game to damage their brand so they ****canned it.

<_<

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:48 .

[Atakuma]

MIke_18 wrote...

Because this game seems heavily influenced by EA. It's like Bioware isn't doing the game it's supposed to be doing for it's lifelong fans, but instead is chasing after Fable and Halo fans. Every decision made about this game is about

a) How do we save more money

How do we sell more copies

It has nothing to do with the quality of the game.

Ah I see you have aquired the power of mind reading.

[Ziggeh]

I'm trying very hard to roll my eyes and move on right now.



I'll go look for that link instead.

[wolfsite]

Frankly I am liking some of the changes they are making to DA2. I'll be honest DA:O had a good story but the game just felt tedious to play threw. The combat felt borderline broken to me (I had several instances where companions would just stand there and do nothing, accept an order then do nothing, swap to them order them to do something then swap back to my character only to have them ignore my last command and just follow me etc)



I beat the game once then placed it on the shelf which is something I Rarely do with Bioware games, I'll probably won't even do an import of my DAO file and just do a fresh start with DA2 if I decide to buy it, but I am liking what I am seeing so far.

[upsettingshorts]

"I thought about it and I thought, alright, at that point I didn't know how good [rival game NBA 2K11] would be but the rumors were [that it was going to be] good. So we could have shipped a product we weren't proud of dead against their game that they are proud of and that we would have been proud of to ship ourselves. We would have probably lost 5-1 in the marketplace against that and firmly cemented a reputation for being one to ship secondary sports titles. We could have put the game back in production and showed up back in time for, say, the All-Star Break… but when you look at the data, typically somewhere between 85 and 90% of basketball games ship between launch date and the All-Star game so we would have been competing for, what, half of the last 10%? And the knock-on effect would have been that the team that would otherwise have been working on the following year's product would have three fewer months to build it.

"So there's the table: You can ship a product you're not proud of and compete for marginal share. You can delay the game to get a better product, but that's going to have a knock-on effect. And we made what I judged to be the best call given the circumstances." - EA boss John Riccitiello on NBA Elite 11

So please, please spare me.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Do you have a link to this?

http://social.biowar...ex/4715441&lf=8

Peter's response just after Mike's on the front page. This is a few months back mind, so maybe things have changed.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:52 .

[MIke_18]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

"I thought about it and I thought, alright, at that point I didn't know how good [rival game NBA 2K11] would be but the rumors were [that it was going to be] good. So we could have shipped a product we weren't proud of dead against their game that they are proud of and that we would have been proud of to ship ourselves. We would have probably lost 5-1 in the marketplace against that and firmly cemented a reputation for being one to ship secondary sports titles. We could have put the game back in production and showed up back in time for, say, the All-Star Break… but when you look at the data, typically somewhere between 85 and 90% of basketball games ship between launch date and the All-Star game so we would have been competing for, what, half of the last 10%? And the knock-on effect would have been that the team that would otherwise have been working on the following year's product would have three fewer months to build it.

"So there's the table: You can ship a product you're not proud of and compete for marginal share. You can delay the game to get a better product, but that's going to have a knock-on effect. And we made what I judged to be the best call given the circumstances." - EA boss John Riccitiello on NBA Elite 11

So please, please spare me.

What is this supposed to mean i don't get it?

[upsettingshorts]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Do you have a link to this?

http://social.biowar...ex/4715441&lf=8

Peter's response just after Mike's on the front page. This is a few months back mind, so maybe things have changed.

Interesting, that would seem to answer the active dodging complaints at least in part would they not?  It isn't one of my issues personally so I don't want to speak for them.

MIke_18 wrote...

What is this supposed to mean i don't get it?

Seriously?  Seriously?!

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:56 .

[ladydesire]

MIke_18 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

"I thought about it and I thought, alright, at that point I didn't know how good [rival game NBA 2K11] would be but the rumors were [that it was going to be] good. So we could have shipped a product we weren't proud of dead against their game that they are proud of and that we would have been proud of to ship ourselves. We would have probably lost 5-1 in the marketplace against that and firmly cemented a reputation for being one to ship secondary sports titles. We could have put the game back in production and showed up back in time for, say, the All-Star Break… but when you look at the data, typically somewhere between 85 and 90% of basketball games ship between launch date and the All-Star game so we would have been competing for, what, half of the last 10%? And the knock-on effect would have been that the team that would otherwise have been working on the following year's product would have three fewer months to build it.

"So there's the table: You can ship a product you're not proud of and compete for marginal share. You can delay the game to get a better product, but that's going to have a knock-on effect. And we made what I judged to be the best call given the circumstances." - EA boss John Riccitiello on NBA Elite 11

So please, please spare me.

What is this supposed to mean i don't get it?

Maybe it means that EA isn't as much about making money as some people like to think; it could also mean that Bioware is in fact making the game they want to, instead of being forced into something that they haven't put their heart into.

[Ziggeh]

MIke_18 wrote...

What is this supposed to mean i don't get it?

You're portraying EA like some pushy, mustache twirling villain with no regard for quality. This is not the case.

[MIke_18]

Isn't this the same company that is saying :



Single player only model is dead, people don't want that anymore,



And is making Bioware put MP in ME3?

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Edit: Interesting.

ziggehunderslash wrote...

I was reading the other day that the way this was resolved was to place the damage up front rather than at the end of the animation.

Presumably that would  mean anything thats in it's path gets hit, even if they've moved out of the way before the animation gets to them, because the damage has already been done.

Do you have a link to this?

I definitely remember this too- it might be in the thread Peter Thomas had going.

Oops. Ninja'd:ph34r:

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 décembre 2010 - 12:00 .

[Atakuma]

MIke_18 wrote...

Isn't this the same company that is saying :

Single player only model is dead, people don't want that anymore,

And is making Bioware put MP in ME3?

No and no.

Modifié par Atakuma, 10 décembre 2010 - 12:00 .

[upsettingshorts]

MIke_18 wrote...

Single player only model is dead, people don't want that anymore,

He didn't quite say that.  Dragon Age Origins had an online element that would fit that executive's comments.  

MIke_18 wrote...

And is making Bioware put MP in ME3?

You mean like "online" DLC that also fits his comments, the same kind of stuff ME2 had?  Beyond that [Citation Needed].

Your schtick is tiresome.  At least others on this forum stay on message and I genuinely believe that despite their attitude might genuinely have a point.  I honestly question why the heck you're even here.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2010 - 12:01 .