564 réponses à ce sujet

[KalDurenik]

- the trolls



Its because people care. I know what a shock right? Now people care for all kinds of reasons, the game moving on the wrong direction, they dont like how something is made/changed and so on and so forth. However if people decide "well **** this im just going to leave and never post again" Bioware should be worried.



Overall i think the complainers (note: not the trolls) help the game more then the "All hail Bioware... God over the gods" people here its kinda the same on the TOR forum and tbh on every forum. It was like a forum dev said somewhere (cant remember where) People complain because they care and want the game to be good or even better"

[upsettingshorts]

KalDurenik wrote...

the "All hail Bioware... God over the gods" people here

Very few posters actually fall under this label. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

the "All hail Bioware... God over the gods" people here

Very few of posters actually fall under this label. 

Well if you like RPGs you HAVE TO appreciate that some companies put the time and effort in them. I think action oriented games which don't even need any story are much easier to make and sell just as fine, if not better.

[KalDurenik]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

the "All hail Bioware... God over the gods" people here

Very few of posters actually fall under this label. 

True some do... And even more fall into the label of "Bioware cant do wrong" then you have a few neutral posters, complainers, trolls.

[Liablecocksman]

KalDurenik wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

the "All hail Bioware... God over the gods" people here

Very few of posters actually fall under this label. 

True some do... And even more fall into the label of "Bioware cant do wrong" then you have a few neutral posters, complainers, trolls.

"Very few" means "Very few" not "A lot".
You are disagreeing with the guy, not agreeing.

I'm unsure what to think on this subject, I think some people are blinded by the past games of Bioware, while others are quite rightly dismissing mindless criticism.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Wicked 702]

leonia42 wrote...

Shorts wrote..
Indeed. The trick to American beer is simple: Drink locally.

This is why imported American beer sucks. Now if Sam Adams Summer Ale was made available year round.. maybe the Americans wouldn't get ragged on for their beer quality so much by the rest of the world.

Sorry, but I'm partial to the Winter Lager myself. I have the need to pick up a case on the way home tonight thanks to ya'll!

And FYI as long I have a BevMo around, there's PLENTY of microbrews and regional favorites to help avoid always having to buy cheap ol' Budweiser. As long as the Pyramid Brewery is in the west, I'm good to go!

Modifié par Wicked 702, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:24 .

[AlexXIV]

Liable****sman wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

the "All hail Bioware... God over the gods" people here

Very few of posters actually fall under this label. 

True some do... And even more fall into the label of "Bioware cant do wrong" then you have a few neutral posters, complainers, trolls.

"Very few" means "Very few" not "A lot".
You are disagreeing with the guy, not agreeing.

I'm unsure what to think on this subject, I think some people are blinded by the past games of Bioware, while others are quite rightly dismissing mindless criticism.

You know, I don't know if I can be 'blinded' by past games. So far I liked every single game they made. So that's not being blinded. So they make a new game which I cannot even judge based on the information I have. So if I say I have faith since Bioware never disappointed me I am blind? I mean what are people even complaining about? The game they don't know? How can they say they don't like it if they never played it?

Critizism happens afterwards, not before. I mean if you went to a test at school or in your work and someone would say that you fail even though you didn't have the chance to prove that you can pass, would think that's fair? People should think a bit for a change, I mean this is the internet so you can have any opinion and get away with it with minimal risk or damage in whatever form, but seriously, people should start thinking.

It is enough time to complain after release, if there is something to complain. I really understand that people complain about DA:A and DLCs, since they bought them and they didn't liked them. But DA2? Come on.

[AlanC9]

You want to see blinded, wait for the BG2 fans to show up.

[FieryDove]

AlanC9 wrote...

You want to see blinded, wait for the BG2 fans to show up.

I don't know...I played the game not that long ago, year maybe? It was ...kinda dark and gloomy looking. So how can one be blinded?

[Liablecocksman]

AlexXIV wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...

"Very few" means "Very few" not "A lot".
You are disagreeing with the guy, not agreeing.

I'm unsure what to think on this subject, I think some people are blinded by the past games of Bioware, while others are quite rightly dismissing mindless criticism.

You know, I don't know if I can be 'blinded' by past games. So far I liked every single game they made. So that's not being blinded. So they make a new game which I cannot even judge based on the information I have. So if I say I have faith since Bioware never disappointed me I am blind? I mean what are people even complaining about? The game they don't know? How can they say they don't like it if they never played it?

I think people are well within their right to express concern over a game they want to love, like they have loved previous games. I can look at the screenshots, and like or dislike the way Bioware are taking the franchise art-wise.
I can read everything that is revealed by the developers, and form my opinion based on those, instead of just my own speculation, which would be a fine and constructive way of going about it.

Critizism happens afterwards, not before. I mean if you went to a test at school or in your work and someone would say that you fail even though you didn't have the chance to prove that you can pass, would think that's fair?

This comparison doesn't work at all. I'm going to ignore it.

People should think a bit for a change, I mean this is the internet so you can have any opinion and get away with it with minimal risk or damage in whatever form, but seriously, people should start thinking.

People should "start thinking"?
What?
Are you saying everyone who express their concern on the game, and the direction it is taking, are simply not "thinking"!? I agree that some people are going overboard, but many have (although I may not agree with them) interesting points, that I can easily see some would agree with, and seem quite rational.

It is enough time to complain after release, if there is something to complain. I really understand that people complain about DA:A and DLCs, since they bought them and they didn't liked them. But DA2? Come on.

Come on now, guy.
Bioware is well-known for reading and participating in the forums - and as a result of this, people will raise points in these same forums, quite naturally. Your points can't change a game after it has come out, but there is the off-chance that some heads at Bioware actually go "Hey, this might actually make sense, maybe we should try and see if we can move more in this other direction" after reading your post - and that is a fair way of thinking, in my opinion.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 10 décembre 2010 - 11:11 .

[wolf3957]

AlanC9 wrote...

wolf3957 wrote...

Yep, EA never had anything to do with ME1, but they did with ME2. You're the one who said that they came in just before ME2 was published. This is obviously false. That's why I gave you the "typo" out

Or was the "just" misleading there, and all you actually meant to say was that ME2 was an EA product and ME1 was not? If so, that's fine with me, since ME2 is the superior RPG.

The 'just' was a typing error in itself. Also, saying ME2 is subjective. It is a tad more refined, but it's the relation with Tali that made it worth it.

If that's what you liked about ME2, so be it.

So exactly what was your point about EA, then? If you're not going to attack ME2, then what's your evidence that EA owning Bioware is a problem?

Well, if you go back to my very first post on page...12 I think? You'll see that I had not intended to talk about ME at all. I was concerned about what was happening with DA2, being that the title of the forum 'Why people are complaining about DA2'. I was concerned about the magic system, the combat system, and the voicing. My concerns had also included what EA was doing with DA, and if they were allowing Bioware to do their job and develop it properly without the primary influence of 'sell it now, and who cares if the consumers keep it, just sell it now.'

[AlanC9]

OK, wolf. But you can't really expect people to interpret something you write on one page in the context of something you wrote pages before.

[Jotun35]

AlexXIV wrote...
So if I say I have faith since Bioware never disappointed me I am blind?

Indeed you are... Just like I was before the release of DAO. After the half of the game I've understand that it was about gather an army of humans, elves, dwarfs, hobbits to kill the evil and terrific Sauron Archdemon... Too simple, if you consider some previous games with big surprise like "Oh well, you're the son of the dead evil god of murder" and later "... and she is your sister". No surprise in DAO, I was pretty bored (OK, the landsmeet was great at least). 
Well the companions are amazing, dialogues are pretty funny and... well maybe TOO funny. IMO there is a lack of "philosophic" conversations... You know, talking about the meaning of life with Alistair with a bottle of ale near the firecamp.

So in the end the tactical combat system was good and reminds me Baldur's Gate a lot (yeah I know, I'm very "Baldur's Gate oriented" but it was my first PC game ever), but even more tactical (which was a good point)... And know what I see ? That it will be possible to slay a bunch of hurlocks and an ogre just with a low level Betanny in normal mode (and without Varric's overemphasis) by... running around and throwing fireballs with a staff ?! WTF ?! I was not pretty confident about DA2 before seeing that video but now...
That's worse !

And now I'm hearing that playing DA2 will not be like playing chess with a friend, no **** ? I don't ask for a chess game... But if I want an action RPG I will rather play The Witcher 2 or even Deus Ex : Human Revolution (DA2 will not be the only potentially excellent RPG to be released in 2011, trust me).

I mean what are people even complaining about? The game they don't know? How can they say they don't like it if they never played it?

Maybe there would be less people complaining if we can have some new gameplay videos ? And I don't speak about only 3 seconds of the PC version gameplay.
Sorry to put these names on the table again but... We have a lot more informations about DX : HR (27 min gameplay video) and The Witcher 2 (a video against a boss, the prison break sequence etc).
Trust me, I don't say that because I don't like Bioware, not at all, I'm a huge fan on what have been done on BG 1, 2 and add-ons, NWN HotUD, KOTOR, Icewind Dale 1 and 2 etc... And that's why I'm pissed off of such situation. If Bioware is SO proud about what have been done on DA2, just show us something convincing !

It is enough time to complain after release, if there is something to complain. I really understand that people complain about DA:A and DLCs, since they bought them and they didn't liked them. But DA2? Come on.

Yeah... give your money, buy the game and then you could complain... Will I have my money back if I don't like it ?

Modifié par Jotun35, 11 décembre 2010 - 12:01 .

[Mirage III]

Black Isle did Icewind Dale 1 and 2, not Bioware.

[Krytheos]

Jotun35 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
So if I say I have faith since Bioware never disappointed me I am blind?

Indeed you are... Just like I was before the release of DAO. After the half of the game I've understand that it was about gather an army of humans, elves, dwarfs, hobbits to kill the evil and terrific Sauron Archdemon... Too simple, if you consider some previous games with big surprise like "Oh well, you're the son of the dead evil god of murder" and later "... and she is your sister". No surprise in DAO, I was pretty bored (OK, the landsmeet was great at least). 
Well the companions are amazing, dialogues are pretty funny and... well maybe TOO funny. IMO there is a lack of "philosophic" conversations... You know, talking about the meaning of life with Alistair with a bottle of ale near the firecamp.

So in the end the tactical combat system was good and reminds me Baldur's Gate a lot (yeah I know, I'm very "Baldur's Gate oriented" but it was my first PC game ever), but even more tactical (which was a good point)... And know what I see ? That it will be possible to slay a bunch of hurlocks and an ogre just with a low level Betanny in normal mode (and without Varric's overemphasis) by... running around and throwing fireballs with a staff ?! WTF ?! I was not pretty confident about DA2 before seeing that video but now...
That's worse !

And now I'm hearing that playing DA2 will not be like playing chess with a friend, no **** ? I don't ask for a chess game... But if I want an action RPG I will rather play The Witcher 2 or even Deus Ex : Human Revolution (DA2 will not be the only potentially excellent RPG to be released in 2011, trust me).

I mean what are people even complaining about? The game they don't know? How can they say they don't like it if they never played it?

Maybe there would be less people complaining if we can have some new gameplay videos ? And I don't speak about only 3 seconds of the PC version gameplay.
Sorry to put these names on the table again but... We have a lot more informations about DX : HR (27 min gameplay video) and The Witcher 2 (a video against a boss, the prison break sequence etc).
Trust me, I don't say that because I don't like Bioware, not at all, I'm a huge fan on what have been done on BG 1, 2 and add-ons, NWN HotUD, KOTOR, Icewind Dale 1 and 2 etc... And that's why I'm pissed off of such situation. If Bioware is SO proud about what have been done on DA2, just show us something convincing !

It is enough time to complain after release, if there is something to complain. I really understand that people complain about DA:A and DLCs, since they bought them and they didn't liked them. But DA2? Come on.

Yeah... give your money, buy the game and then you could complain... Will I have my money back if I don't like it ?

Firstly, no he isn't blind. It's called 'product history.' If a company or developer has a history of developing quality games/products in the past, trutsting them with future releases is a viably credible option due to their history of releasing quality, well-made and manufactured goods, whether they be games or chairs. It's not 'blind faith' if you trust a developer with something, especially one with a history of making high-quality items of worth and value.

Discounting them for this is a silly argument in and of itself, since it isn't 'blind' so much as placing an amount of trust based on the past history of a company that has often delivered products in the past that were good, and enjoyable experiences. Will this be different? Will this be poor quality or high quality? That is up to the individual to decipher, and calling them blind based on trust is like telling a fellow customer to wait and buy that delicious looking candy bar later, since you don't know exactly how good it is.

If the fellow customer trusts the maker of the bar enough based on past transactions, then that is what is called 'trust.' Can you break that trust? Certainly. But trusting a company to make a quality piece of candy game, or product based on past history is not being 'blind.'

Now, as for DA2 being an action game; that is entirely a different story. In action games, I except it to be twitch based. From what I've seen, DA2 is not twitch based, so really, the 'action' game in it is more based on conjecture, and opinions from first viewing, rather than actually having played the game. None of us have, so I guess we will wait and see, hm? Labelling a game before it's out isn't a very wise thing, really.

As for the games you mentioned, they are still wait and see. What you see now may not even be in the final game; such is the possibility, since it is still in development, after all. Do not always trust what you see, after all; it may not even be in the final game.

As for information: BioWare releases what they want, and what they will. It is their perogative; other comanies release information when they will. It is also their choice, not to mention there are chances Bioware withholds information because they want to be at least, 90% sure it is implemented and in-game before releasing it to the public. Which is a much better option than say, telling us we can plant an acorn and come back to see it grow into an acorn tree, and then never ever implement it in any following game, I do believe. 

As for the money thing; if you don't like it, take it back and refund your money. Simple. You don't have to keep the games you don't like, after all. Alternatively, there are ways to rent it, so there's also that. Many different options, but I won't get too much into it, beyond this.

[Anathemic]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

What baffles me is why people seemed to EXPECT DA2 to be highly similar to DA:O in terms of the availability of origins, isometric camera, silent protagonist, etc. BioWare's expansions work that way (unlike, say Blizz's expansions which can drastically change things). DA:A, Tales of the Sword Coast, Throne of Bhaal, Hordes of the Underdark, etc. were identical in mechanics to their progenitor games and just tacked more onto the story. But like I said, BioWare's sequels usually involve drastic gameplay, art, and story overhauls.

So honestly, for those of you upset by the direction of DA2, did you 100% truly expect it to play similarly to DA:O? I'm just curious because some folks seemed to take it as a god-sent given that the two games would be similar, and I was pretty sure at the outset that they would be quite different due to BioWare's track record.

Really now? the WoW expansions still keep gameplay in terms of PvE and PvP the same and basically expand on that, including lore (on most occasions). Expansions for the Warcraft RTS and Stracraft RTS kept the same game just added stuff. Transition from Diablo to Diablo 2 kept the same concept of multiple classes and dungeon-crawling gameplay in it.

[AlanC9]

Jotun35 wrote...

Indeed you are... Just like I was before the release of DAO. After the half of the game I've understand that it was about gather an army of humans, elves, dwarfs, hobbits to kill the evil and terrific Sauron Archdemon... Too simple, if you consider some previous games with big surprise like "Oh well, you're the son of the dead evil god of murder" and later "... and she is your sister". No surprise in DAO, I was pretty bored (OK, the landsmeet was great at least).

So you really need some sort of Epic Plot Twist to like a game? 

[Hollingdale]

Half the game? You find out about that **** after you finish what is basically a tutorial although well disguised.

[ScotGaymer]

As I said earlier.



I dont really agree with the OP or the people in this thread - complaining or supporting.



I dont feel we know enough about any one thing to form anything other than a tentative opinion be it positive or negative. And what we do know generally comes from alpha and early beta screenshots and videos, and "trailers". Information from these things is not going to be accurate.



It just isnt possible to form an informed and subjective opinion on any single subject thus far.



As a black american might say "haters gonna hate".

[Maria Caliban]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

As a black american might say "haters gonna hate".

Pretty sure this is not restricted to black vernacular.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Crimson Invictus]

I know of at least one Caucasian American that uses the phrase.

[Maria Caliban]

Do the English not use this phrase?

[AlexXIV]

Liable****sman wrote...
*snip*

Voicing concern and complaining are 2 different things. 'This game sucks' is hardly a voiced concern. I have voiced plenty of concerns already. But it is always the tone that makes the music. And devs don't spend so much time on this forum because they like people who complain alot. And hearing the same prejudice over and over doesn't help much either really. Of course you can look at all these things we can already see of DA2, but that doesn't mean you should jump to conclusions. I mean if you don't like a screenshot, then you don't like a screenshot. But then conjuring a connection to game play or whatever is mere speculation. And if their own speculations make people upset or scare them, what is Bioware supposed to do about it?

[Crimson Invictus]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Do the English not use this phrase?

I've never seen or heard it used.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:39 .

[ScotGaymer]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Do the English not use this phrase?

I wouldnt know about the English being that I am Scottish.

But I believe that thats a distinctly american phrasing and we British peoples dont really use it. At least I havent heard it used often.
Only time i ever seen/heard it was by black americans on telly lol.