564 réponses à ce sujet

[Jotun35]

That is up to the individual to decipher, and calling them blind based on trust is like telling a fellow customer to wait and buy that delicious looking candy bar later, since you don't know exactly how good it is.

Or of what it's composed ! Is there OGM in this bar (american people don't have to ask this question : of course there is OGM, but it's another concern in Europe) ? Any carcinogenic substance ? I like to know what I eat... And I like to know more about a game before buying, despite the company that is just saying "Sure it's a good game, buy it" and don't show anything else than an old demo (yeah I know... Bioware works hard on DA2 and don't have time to make another demo blablabla).

Oh ! And I was disapointed by DAO (such as every BG player I guess), so I'm pretty suspicious about DA2 at the moment. I'm not saying that it will be a bad game, not at all, just that I need to see more to trust Bioware about how good this game is. So yes, it's blindness (or clairvoyance !) to say that DA2 will be great.

As for the games you mentioned, they are still wait and see. What you see now may not even be in the final game; such is the possibility, since it is still in development, after all. Do not always trust what you see, after all; it may not even be in the final game.

I trust what I see rather than what a company tells me ! And for now I've seen a lot of gameplay possibilites of both games mentioned and nothing about DA2.

It is also their choice, not to mention there are chances Bioware withholds information because they want to be at least, 90% sure it is implemented and in-game before releasing it to the public.

Come on ! There is only few months before the release of DA2 ! It's not time to think about what should or shouldn't be implemented in the game ! I guess such decisions was already taken during the development of the E3 demo. Of course you could still think about which skill/item sould be implemented to balance the game, but it won't change the mechanics of the game.

As for the money thing; if you don't like it, take it back and refund your money. Simple. You don't have to keep the games you don't like, after all.

I'm not sure that I could say to a website "I've tested the game I've bought to you a week ago and I don't like it... Can I send you the game back and then you'll refund me ?"
I'm afraid it might not works !

[AlanC9]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
But I believe that thats a distinctly american phrasing and we British peoples dont really use it. At least I havent heard it used often.
Only time i ever seen/heard it was by black americans on telly lol.

A fair number of white hipsters use black vernacular. I thinks kids do it a lot too.

[AlanC9]

Jotun35 wrote...


Oh ! And I was disapointed by DAO (such as every BG player I guess), so I'm pretty suspicious about DA2 at the moment.

Dude, lay off the silly overstatements. A  fraction of BG players were disappointed by DAO, not most. Certainly not every, but I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that literally. 

For my part, DAO is about equal to BG except for the things that it does much, much, better. Except that it's a little shorter, but DAO is about as long as I can stand a game to be these days.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 décembre 2010 - 06:57 .

[Jotun35]

AlanC9 wrote...
For my part, DAO is about equal to BG except for the things that it does much, much, better. Except that it's a little shorter, but DAO is abuot as long as I can stand a game to be these days.

Much better combat system, I agree. Much interesting spells and skills ? Yes.
More interesting plot and sidequests ? No, absolutely not !
The companions and dialogues qualities are equal... Except that no DAO companion is more funny than Jan Jansen and that Morrigan's romance is more superficial than Viconia's romance.

If you're now talking about how nice DA looks like in comparison with isometric 2D view of BG2... I will just answer that I really don't care : I'm not the kind of morron that buy a game for its graphical aspect.

Modifié par Jotun35, 12 décembre 2010 - 07:00 .

[AlanC9]

Plot's about equal in my estimation, with a slight edge to DAO. No Epic Twist, but no Chosen One PC either, which works in DAO's favor. DAO execution is much, much better in terms of choices and consequences for those choices. Depth of interaction with companions is far superior in DAO.

[PaddyMaxson]

Well, I'm not complainign yet since I haven't played the game, but from the making of video it seems to be deviating further and further from Dragon Age Origins in terms of gameplay and combat, and I liked how  Origins played, what I didn't like was how it looked in many places (especially those clipping shoulder plates).

We'll see how it turns out, but thus far I'm not pleased that it seems to be a dumbed down for consoles update.

Which is fine I guess, Bioware has to make money, it's not like Dragon Age Origins actually had great sales or anything...

[Jotun35]

No Epic Twist, but no Chosen One PC either, which works in DAO's favor.

Shepard is a chosen one and ME is an excellent game. The chosen one PC is not a problem... it's more how the studio will develop the storyline around this chosen one that is interesting.
Plus, the greywarden is... A Greywarden, so he is not so far from being a chosen one.

DAO execution is much, much better in terms of choices and consequences for those choices.

Well ok, point taken.

Depth of interaction with companions is far superior in DAO.

I disagree. It's different (and equal IMO). In BG, when a companion disaprpove what you do, he leaves the team. In DAO there is very few situations like this. Plus the "give me a gift, I will love you" is a "false good-idea".

Modifié par Jotun35, 12 décembre 2010 - 07:35 .

[upsettingshorts]

Jotun35 wrote...

Oh ! And I was disapointed by DAO (such as every BG player I guess), so I'm pretty suspicious about DA2 at the moment. I'm not saying that it will be a bad game, not at all, just that I need to see more to trust Bioware about how good this game is. So yes, it's blindness (or clairvoyance !) to say that DA2 will be great.

Wrong.  Your opinions mean nothing to me.  Before you take that the wrong way, let me clarify.  

If in my personal experience I've never been disappointed by a Bioware game*, it is not blind faith to expect that streak to continue.  The fact that other people might have been disappointed in DA:O or ME2 isn't relevant at all because it doesn't concern my interests.  Bioware exists.  I have experience with Bioware's products.  My experience has been entirely positive

The notion that for my or anyone else's beliefs to be justified demands something like objective greatness is missing the point.  As long as I enjoy it, that's all that matters to me.  That is not blind faith, but it is faith.  If DA2 turns out a 40/100 Metacritic score and I still liked playing it then my preorder is justified.

If you were disappointed by their latest offerings, of course its reasonable to have doubts that give you pause regarding DA:2.   But having faith in a company whose products have always entertained you, up to and including their most recent ones, is not unreasonable either.

* I never bought ME Galaxy because I don't have an iPhone, and Sonic is an IP I'm not interested in.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 décembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[AlanC9]

Suer, DAO gifts were a terrible system, but in BG you could spoof the Reputation system with gold or randomly murdering NPCs, so you could manipulate companions opinion just about as easily.



At this point we're down to very subjective stuff. To find DAO disappointing relative to BG requires that you hit those subjective points in BG's favor. There's nothing wrong with that, of course.

[maxernst]

AlanC9 wrote...

Suer, DAO gifts were a terrible system, but in BG you could spoof the Reputation system with gold or randomly murdering NPCs, so you could manipulate companions opinion just about as easily.

.

Oh, I hated the gift system, too, but I prefer the individual responses to your behavior of the DA:O companions to the alignment-driven ones in BG.  As far as companions not leaving unless you really, really ****** them off, it makes sense under the circumstances.  If a BG or BG2 companion didn't like you, they really had no reason to stay, whereas in DA:O, the survival of the country depends on the success of the PC's party. 

[Alexander1136]

Well i'm worried about the art direction and the graphics I'm not to pleased with what i've seen and The new fight like a spartan (while i know the phrase is for marketing purposes) is a risky move if they make the attacking animations to "cool" its also looks fake and takes away from the immersion, some of the gameplay ive seen w/ lady hawke using a great sword reminded me of dynasty warriors. The game isn't complete yet but if nobody ****es nothing gets tweaked or changed. Slso again please change the hurlock shoulder pads the look like there something straight out of a JRPG.

[Jotun35]

maxernst wrote...

 If a BG or BG2 companion didn't like you, they really had no reason to stay, whereas in DA:O, the survival of the country depends on the success of the PC's party. 

I agree for BG2, not BG. In DAO the Blight will crush Ferelden... But in BG a madman is trying to launch a full scale war between two countries of the Sword Coast ! Of course evil companions don't care but... Well there is trully evil companions in BG at least !

[ScotGaymer]

Alexander1136 wrote...

Well i'm worried about the art direction and the graphics I'm not to pleased with what i've seen and The new fight like a spartan (while i know the phrase is for marketing purposes) is a risky move if they make the attacking animations to "cool" its also looks fake and takes away from the immersion, some of the gameplay ive seen w/ lady hawke using a great sword reminded me of dynasty warriors. The game isn't complete yet but if nobody ****es nothing gets tweaked or changed. Slso again please change the hurlock shoulder pads the look like there something straight out of a JRPG.

The only problem I have with what I have seen of DA2 so far is Bioware seem to have continued their association/subscription to the Rule of Cool. This is more because they did so with ME2 and seem set to continue that trend with DA2 and ME3.

And i absolutely DETEST the Rule of Cool.

I wish whoever thought it was a good idea for bioware to go down that road to be taken out and shot (okay not literally but come on the rule of cool sucks). Its the worst policy ever. It destroys games and IPs.

However most of my worry on that front comes from ME2 and the belief that DA2 -seems- to be heading in the same direction.

Im still preordering it tho.

[In Exile]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
And i absolutely DETEST the Rule of Cool.

I wish whoever thought it was a good idea for bioware to go down that road to be taken out and shot (okay not literally but come on the rule of cool sucks). Its the worst policy ever. It destroys games and IPs.

Rule of cool is awesome. It's panderim to realism in a setting that inherenetly breaks realism that sucks. Look! Two people and two opinions. Now marketing is impossible.

[Maria Caliban]

In Exile wrote...

It's panderim to realism in a setting that inherenetly breaks realism that sucks.

The concept of realism within any genre of fiction is problematic at best and irreconcilable at worst.

[In Exile]

Maria Caliban wrote...
The concept of realism within any genre of fiction is problematic at best and irreconcilable at worst.

I think it depends on the fiction and the extent to which you want to model reality. Of course, even with the fiction that tries to be most realistic, you can always go down the ''but it violates basic precepts of human psychology route!''.

[ScotGaymer]

I only want realism within the context of the universe.



Doing something just cos of the Rule of Cool is the absolute worst reason to do something IMO and its a reason that Bioware seems to use more and more in recent times.



Its quite unsettling.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Jotun35 wrote...

Much better combat system, I agree. Much interesting spells and skills ? Yes.
More interesting plot and sidequests ? No, absolutely not !
The companions and dialogues qualities are equal... Except that no DAO companion is more funny than Jan Jansen and that Morrigan's romance is more superficial than Viconia's romance.

If you're now talking about how nice DA looks like in comparison with isometric 2D view of BG2... I will just answer that I really don't care : I'm not the kind of morron that buy a game for its graphical aspect.

Pro tip: if you're going to use a word like "moron," spell it correctly

I don't know where this idea that appreciation of graphics is moronic came from, but personally, I like graphics.  Sure I prioritize gameplay higher, but saying graphics don't factor into my enjoyment of a game is like saying special effects don't factor into my enjoyment of sci-fi and fantasy movies that rely on them.  Graphics don't solely make the game, but they can boost or detract significantly from a game--I literally could not play Oblivion due to its graphics.

Also, you need to parse out art design and graphics quality.  While related, the two are not the same.  I think the art design of BG2 was far superior to DA:O--it had color, for starters--but the graphics of DA:O are obviously more advanced.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Consistency is, I think, much more important than realism.

Since the "Rule of Cool" routinely violates consistency, it needs to go.

On graphics, improved graphics only offer improved gameplay if the game features actual exploration. No BioWare game has had graphics that actually made the game better since NWN, but Fallout 3 was drastically improved by having high-quality visuals.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Consistency is, I think, much more important than realism.
Since the "Rule of Cool" routinely violates consistency, it needs to go.

Not at all. Not to mention you are again confusing that consistency requires that all things be treated the same, which is certainly not true at all.

On graphics, improved graphics only offer improved gameplay if the game features actual exploration. No BioWare game has had graphics that actually made the game better since NWN, but Fallout 3 was drastically improved by having high-quality visuals.

That ignores the aesthetic enjoyment of graphics.

[Jotun35]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Pro tip: if you're going to use a word like "moron," spell it correctly

Woops !
Sorry but I'm not a native speaker (but I think it's pretty obvious now).

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Also, you need to
parse out art design and graphics quality.  While related, the two are
not the same.  I think the art design of BG2 was far superior to
DA:O--it had color, for starters--but the graphics of DA:O are obviously
more advanced.

I agree, it's very different. But BG2 was superior to DAO because of the Forgotten Realms licence which have decades of background and illustrations behind.

Modifié par Jotun35, 13 décembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Not at all. Not to mention you are again confusing that consistency requires that all things be treated the same, which is certainly not true at all.

Agreed, but those differences would need to be acknowledged by the game.

If hurlocks can attack with a 2H sword and not do AoE damage, then why can't Hawke attack with a 2H sword without doing AoE damage?

I don't objewct to differences if there's some justification for them.  I had no problem with the Ogres in DAO having access to talents that were denied Sten.

That ignores the aesthetic enjoyment of graphics.

Which is why I referred explicitly to gameplay benefits.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Jotun35 wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Pro tip: if you're going to use a word like "moron," spell it correctly

Woops !
Sorry but I'm not a native speaker (but I think it's pretty obvious now).

No problem.  Apologies if I came off snarky, hard to show inflection with text.

Jotun35 wrote...
But BG2 was superior to DAO because of the Forgotten Realms licence which have decades of background and illustrations behind.

Hmm.  I suppose BG2 had more lore or source material, but just because a license has lots of background or lore doesn't necessarily mean it will have superior art design.  It may mean that an IP has more inspiration to draw upon.  Whether that affects art design is up to the devs.

And what constitutes appealing art design is such a matter of taste that we may as well argue about "what is art" like middle schoolers for all the good it does us.  Spectacular and appalling art design at the extremes are really the only places where there's considerable consensus.

Personally, I do care about the aesthetics of my video games.  To that extent, I'm willing to suspend disbelief to a certain point for the sake of aesthetics.  For example, Valkyria Chronicles is to date probably the only JRPG that I've played and enjoyed all the way through.  It was an absolutely beautiful game.  Realistic depiction of warfare?  Not so much.  But I'm willing to let it slide because the game just looked so goddamn stunning.  I understand that it's not a willingness that everyone else shares, and there are limits to my suspension of disbelief--something as absurd as FFXIII's razor saw flying scorpion robots smashes right through from "ok, that looks cool" to flat out WAT.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 13 décembre 2010 - 07:24 .

[Torhagen]

I look forward to DA2 and already pre-ordered my Signature Edition.
after the Video where the DA2 guys assured that they are not going down the ME2 Path.

I feel like with ME2 they ****** on us and try to sell it to us as rain I have never before that seen that a sequel that was supposed to be a direct continuation was completely different and had key element nearly or completely removed.

I will not order ME3 till i have seen the finished product first.

Modifié par Torhagen, 15 décembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[Jotun35]

Pretty funny. I'm a bit of an "hardcore RPGist" but find ME2 very interesting and much better than the first ME (more interactions with companions, deeper interaction as well, more action correlated with more difficulty, more interesting sidequests with various environments etc).



But I don't get the point of using elements of ME in DA. It's two different licence and if I play a DA game, I don't expect to play a ME one and reciprocally (I don't want to see the "gather an army and storm on the earth in a final mission to kill some Reapers" plot in ME3, just like in DAO).