564 réponses à ce sujet

[MortalEngines]

TS2Aggie wrote...
Looking forward to it, actually. Radically changing a character's looks, voice and backstory and expecting us to believe it's the same person from DA:O? Worrisome. Completely redesigning races from the original game? Also worrisome, but time will tell if it's actually a good thing or not.

Wait...what? This is what gets me annoyed by people who complain about the game. I think that yes, people should be allowed to say their opinion if they think something is wrong but for heaven's sake at least get your facts right.

WE'RE NOT PLAYING THE WARDEN IN DA2. IT IS NOT TAKING PLACE IN FERELDAN. THE BLIGHT IS OVER.

So, TS2Aggie, your complaints about Bioware changing "a character's looks, voice and backstory and expecting us to believe it's the same person from DA:O" is well, silly because that's not what's going to happen. Hawke isn't the warden and this is a seperate story from that, plus as per Origins, Character looks are still customized by the players.

Also it's not a complete redesign of the races, the changes to Elf and dwarf are minimal at best and only the Darkspawn and Qunari got any major changes to their features.

TJPags wrote...

Why are people complaining?  I think it's obvious:

1.  Some of the changes in art style, we don't like, or see as pointless.  Sure, the hurlocks look a little more bestial, that may be good, but did they really need to be changed?  We have 2 returning chacters who look very different then they did before - why?  Will that happen with any returning character?

From what I've gathered, the change for art style was decided due to the fact DA:O was criticized as not having any unique art style or graphics, it was all the same medieval fantasy look we'd seen before. That would of being one of the driving factors for the change.

TJPags wrote...
2.  Your PC is limited to a human.  I think we understand the reasons for this, but some people (not me) prefer to play dwarves or elves.  Now, they can't.  That bothers them, since the first game in this series allowed it.

*sigh* just because Origins gave you this choice doesn't mean every DA game is going to follow the same formula. DA:O was called 'Origins' for a reason, the main attraction to the game was infact the origins. Of course it stops being the main attraction after you've seen it in 3 more times in other DA games, Bioware doesn't want to keep reharshing the same formula.

TJPags wrote...
3.  The voiced PC.  Related to #2 (a large part of the reason the PC is limited to being human).  Some people love that idea.  Some don't.

Subject to opinion, but I believe that if Bioware could of, they would of added voiced PC to DA:O obviously that would of being too expensive though. Also I'm skipping 4. because it is also subject to opinion.

TJPags wrote...
5.  The companion inventories.  Seems like they have static armor and possibly static weapons.  Some people don't like that, either.  I'll add to this one questions about whether Hawke can change his/her armor, as well.  Some people like to change armor, so this bothers them.

Yes you can change the armour of hawke, if you read what the devs have said several times, the player's inventory basically works the same way as Origins. Only companions have static armour.

TJPags wrote...
6. [snip]

I'm also worried about this, however, I trust Bioware will release something before pre-order time. I believe I remember Chris saying that there definately would be stuff out around christmas time.

TJPags wrote...
7.  PC issues.  There may not be a toolset.  There may not be a character creator.  There won't be an isometric camera.  These things are important - sometimes, very important - to some of the PC players

True, there may not be a toolset, but we'll have to wait and see. Also, what do you mean no character creator? You mean the in-game one you got in Origins or the one you could download seperately? Also it's been stated that on PC you can still zoom in and out, move the camera horizantally and vertically quite a bit.

Modifié par MortalEngines, 08 décembre 2010 - 07:21 .

[wolf3957]

Personally, I was hopeful when I heard about the whole "spiritual predecessor of Baldur's Gate" in the first game. This was before I realized that the first game is ONLY the 'spiritual predecessor' when considering story development. A few things I'm hoping are fixed in the second game:



1. The magic system. In Baldur's Gate, there was always a feasible way to counter-act any and every negative spell. In DA, there are none. You get hit with that spell that prevents healing and you die. End of combat. This is a major reason why I sold the game.

2. The combat. They say they're fixing this, but it is yet to be seen. I was a warrior in DA, yet I never actually PLAYED as my warrior. This was because A) No matter how I programed the AI it could never heal properly to maintain the party's health. If I chose to actually play like a warrior, meaning wading into combat like good warriors do, someone always died! I got sick of this real quick. I would understand if I was a mage or a rogue and couldn't wear heavy armor, but I was using full dragon armor. Oh, and a side note; if you're going to tell me in the loading tips that enemies will target the heavier armored characters, please have them do so! This was another reason I couldn't play as my warrior; I spent almost all of the combat sequence defending my healer!

3. Give my character a voice! That should be self explanitory.

4. This may be stretching, but more player controlled combat; one button attacks, the other raises the shield. Oh, and enemy friendly-fire might be nice, seeing as how I can kill my own party and all without much effort.

[AlanC9]

Do our personal experiences really matter? Anyone who hangs around here is very different from a typical game buyer.



30-40 hours is a pretty huge commitment from someone with a family, other interests, a life....

[ptibog]

MortalEngines wrote...

WE'RE NOT PLAYING THE WARDEN IN DA2. IT IS NOT TAKING PLACE IN FERELDAN. THE BLIGHT IS OVER.

So, TS2Aggie, your complaints about Bioware changing "a character's looks, voice and backstory and expecting us to believe it's the same person from DA:O" is well, silly because that's not what's going to happen. Hawke isn't the warden and this is a seperate story from that, plus as per Origins

He was probably talking about isabella...

[MortalEngines]

ptibog wrote...

MortalEngines wrote...

WE'RE NOT PLAYING THE WARDEN IN DA2. IT IS NOT TAKING PLACE IN FERELDAN. THE BLIGHT IS OVER.

So, TS2Aggie, your complaints about Bioware changing "a character's looks, voice and backstory and expecting us to believe it's the same person from DA:O" is well, silly because that's not what's going to happen. Hawke isn't the warden and this is a seperate story from that, plus as per Origins

He was probably talking about isabella...

I think she/he was talking about the warden though, Isabela's backstory hasn't changed. Also, that's one character out of the multitude that will be in DA2. But if they were, then apologises for misunderstanding.

[Bryy_Miller]

I have a question.
Would having origins actually benefit the sequel at all? Take away everything we know about DA2, say it is a blank slate. Would having four separate origins benefit the sequel in a world that has already been established? I think the origins have served their purposes, but then again, we are not our same character.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 08 décembre 2010 - 07:37 .

[AlanC9]

wolf3957 wrote...
1. The magic system. In Baldur's Gate, there was always a feasible way to counter-act any and every negative spell. In DA, there are none. You get hit with that spell that prevents healing and you die. End of combat. This is a major reason why I sold the game.
2. The combat. They say they're fixing this, but it is yet to be seen. I was a warrior in DA, yet I never actually PLAYED as my warrior. This was because A) No matter how I programed the AI it could never heal properly to maintain the party's health. If I chose to actually play like a warrior, meaning wading into combat like good warriors do, someone always died! I got sick of this real quick. I would understand if I was a mage or a rogue and couldn't wear heavy armor, but I was using full dragon armor. Oh, and a side note; if you're going to tell me in the loading tips that enemies will target the heavier armored characters, please have them do so! This was another reason I couldn't play as my warrior; I spent almost all of the combat sequence defending my healer!

This sounds like DAO was too hard for you to understand.

(I keep telling people BG2 wasn't a hard game and nobody believes me.)

[GodWood]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
I have a question.
Would having origins actually benefit the sequel at all? Take away everything we know about DA2, say it is a blank slate. Would having four separate origins benefit the sequel in a world that has already been established?

Yes.

[ptibog]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I have a question.
Would having origins actually benefit the sequel at all? Take away everything we know about DA2, say it is a blank slate. Would having four separate origins benefit the sequel in a world that has already been established?.

Would having roleplay actually benefit a role playing game?

Probably yes.

Bryy_Miller wrote...

we are not our same character.

In DAII we are not our character, at all.

[Bryy_Miller]

ptibog wrote...

Would having roleplay actually benefit a role playing game?

Probably yes.

You've played the game? Lucky.

In DAII we are not our character, at all.

Well, yes, we are. Just like any other RPG, or game, for that matter. If they made a big deal out of the last names in Origins, this would have been an issue for Origins, as well.

[Matchy Pointy]

ptibog wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I have a question.
Would having origins actually benefit the sequel at all? Take away everything we know about DA2, say it is a blank slate. Would having four separate origins benefit the sequel in a world that has already been established?.

Would having roleplay actually benefit a role playing game?

Probably yes.

Bryy_Miller wrote...

we are not our same character.

In DAII we are not our character, at all.

Well, to be fair, we are about our own character as much as any single origin in DA:O. We didn't chose wich noble we were, we were always the youngest Cousland child for example, and every origin had a set last name, same as we have Hawke now.

[Dave of Canada]

In my opinion, I'd much prefer having one in-depth Origin over having four-five that change dialogue from "Hello there, elf" to "Hello there, human".

[Chuvvy]

Forgot that you're on the internet huh?

[MerinTB]

AlanC9 wrote...
(I keep telling people BG2 wasn't a hard game and nobody believes me.)

I believe it.  I don't remember anything but maybe a few "cheap" battles as being hard...

and by "cheap" I mean the oddities that are 2nd ED rules (disintergrate, time stop, and such spells that just mean "oops, you lose a few seconds into the fight - nothing you could do!")

overall, it was no more difficult, for me, than DA:O or Pool of Radiance or Wasteland or FFXIII.

It was far easier than Wizard's Crown or Knights of Legend, for example.

[Maria Caliban]

It helps a great deal to know Advanced D&D before you play.

[Bryy_Miller]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It helps a great deal to know Advanced D&D before you play.

I know AD&D, and even though I loved BG2, I hated the battle system during some fights. There are a lot of situations where AD&D does not translate at all to a video game ruleset.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I can't speak for others, but I'm a firmly centered and critical guy. I don't bow to the altar of Bioware, but I don't grab the pitchforks and call them heretics either.



So..some of the changes I like very much. Some of the changes I hate very much. Some of the things that remained the same as in DA:O I like. Some I hate.



At this point, given all the information I know, the bad outweighs the good. Hopefully it will turn out better than I think, but I'm not holding my breath. I know myself and I know some of the confirmed things grate me very much so.



Then again, I'm a snob who's very critical about anything...But, that's the only way I think consumers should be. Demand the best and don't contend with mediocre solutions...Only that way can companies be pushed to improve their products.

[DarthCaine]

Maybe because there's no races, no origins, it's much shorter, party members don't change outfits and there's paraphrasing of dialogue options?

[Xewaka]

The main reason I complain about Dragon Age 2 is because most of the changes announced remove something to gain something, and in my opinion, the removed part is more valuable to an enjoyable experience than the added part. Mostly it has to do because they remove player options and input in the name of story. Let's see some examples:

1) Warriors lose dual wielding and archery to make warriors and rogues more distinct: For the purpose of the argument, let's assume that the class system in Dragon Age is properly done (Something I disagree with, but it's not my point). There are many ways of making the two classes feel and play differently. They opted to completely remove the overlap; this also means that warrior has been cut of half its styles, with nothing given in return. Other options to explore could include having the overlapping skills be more distinctive (have the warrior dual wield axes berserker style and the rogue dual wield rapier-and-dagger, power vs. finesse), and adding additional choices exclusive to the rogue (such as a single one-handed weapon style focused on evasion and opportunistic strikes). I understand the choice to cut was made due to time constraints. That doesn't mean I agree with the choice.

2) Origins are gone to have a better focus on a single character story: You may notice my avatar is a lady dwarf. You may also notice that is no longer a gameplay option for me in Dragon Age 2. Again, I understand that a predefined character allow the story team a higher control over the plot development and a more involved storyline. Still, player options are being sacrificed in the name of story. I like having options.

3) The text box is removed for a paraphase wheel: I agree wholeheartedly with Sylvius' stance that a paraphrase wheel doesn't allow to make an informed choice of what our character is saying. In my case, as a spanish consumer, this problem is made more blatant by the fact that paraphrases are much more difficult to translate while keeping the neccesary information, and the character limit in the paraphrases means that most of the time that neccesary information will not be there, because spanish has on average a higher character count per word than english, and the information that might be fitted in an english-written paraphrase will be lost in a spanish written paraphrase.

4) The free-roam isometric camera is gone for a better combat balance: It has been stated in an interview with the developers that balancing combat assuming and over-the-shoulder camera meant that the combat was trivially easy when using a free-roam isometric camera. So, for the sake of an easier encounter design the free-roam isometric camera had to go. For those of us who like playing tactically and use the pause-and-play option profusely, this change means less information input, less battlefield control, and thus a less enjoyable combat experience, making the gameplay experience worse.

5) Companions no longer change looks with armor to make them more unique: I have played three times Mass Effect 2. I have yet to use Jack, Miranda, Samara, or Thane. Cleavage and shirtlessness when exposed to space breaks my inmersion, as well as fighting in high heels. I believe I will have a similar problem with Dragon Age 2, as most of the companions showed so far don't look battle ready. Were they to carry at least a leather jerkin, it wouldn't be so bad. Aditionally, the fixed looks on companions destroy the visual cue of progression by having the equipment change as it gets better.

As you might see, people complain about DA: 2 because with the information they have so far, they believe they have a reason to voice their concerns.

Modifié par Xewaka, 08 décembre 2010 - 11:58 .

[edeheusch]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

They are complaining because they dislike the direction of the game.

Essentially this. Some people hate change.

I cannot speak for everybody but I don’t hate changes, to the contrary, for DA2 I was expecting more origins, more customisation (more classes, more races, a possibility of multiclassing…), a redesigned specialisation system (in DAO everybody took as much specialisations as possible because there brought only bonuses), and a general more tactical game. My problem is that all the changes that have already been announced are going in the opposite direction!

First of all, I don’t like/own all Bioware games, I don’t like action games (not even action RPGs) and, because of that, I have neither Jade Empire nor any Mass Effect. So, if Dragon Age 2 happens to be an Action game (even if it becomes the best Action RPG ever realised) I won’t buy it (because I wouldn’t enjoy it). Many people are describing The Witcher as one of the best RPG that exist, I have try the demo and I hated it because of its action oriented combat system (for me, every fight of this game is a chore).
To my point of view, the main strength of DAO was the origin system (it is the element that gave it more replayability than Neverwinter Nights 2 although I prefer the class system of D&D) and it has been cut out (even worst, the choice of your race has also been cut out).
The Isometric view (the only one that I ever use) has also been cut out. I read that we will still be able to zoom out and I hope that it will be enough to play the game tactically from the top but if the game offer only an “over the shoulder view” (like the console version of DAO) this alone would be enough to put it in a genre that I don’t like to play (for me the “over the shoulder” views and first person views are only fine for FPS and other action games that I don’t like).
The fact that DA2 is going to be shorter than DAO is another downside; the shortness of Awakening (with the huge amount of bugs affecting it) let me an impression of rushed expansion that I don’t want to experience again with DA2.
Finally, the fact that our companions won’t be able to equip armors is another big downside, it would not be enough alone to prevent me from buying the game but added to the other elements it adds another reason for being anxious about this sequel.

Currently, I wait to see more information concerning the PC version of the game, especially about how the zoomed out view will be, but the changes we have heard about worry me. It is not that it would be the end of the world if DA2 is too much action oriented to my taste but there are not so much tactical RPGs franchises and I would be disappointed if the DA series leave this genre.

Modifié par edeheusch, 08 décembre 2010 - 10:24 .

[Pugnate]

I find some of the comments in this thread absolutely ridiculous. People complaining for the sake of it? People complaining because they essentially hate change? People having some false sense of entitlement?



Are some of you so arrogant that you can't accept that most of the PC gaming public actually don't like most of the changes announced, because they feel that these changes will make for a poorer gaming experience?



Is it really that much easier to believe in some ulterior psychological motive?



I don't know if some of you have visited other gaming forums, but the feeling on the changes made for Dragon Age 2 are largely negative. And no, it isn't because they are whiny little nitwits complaining for the sake of it.

[Pugnate]

*sigh* just because Origins gave you this choice doesn't mean
every DA game is going to follow the same formula.

Sorry, but what does that even mean? By your logic, we should have no uniformity at all between a game and its sequel. There are changes, and then there are drastic changes. Choosing your race is an RPG staple. Removing that is a drastic change.

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

One solid reason is that the Matrix movies ruined sequels for everyone.


Most
people after finishing Origins thought "Oh wow I really hope they make a
sequel to this." But once they heard that is wouldnt be Origins Version
2.0 they're fragile little RPG tastes couldnt take it.

Basically bad sequels have ruined people's optimism.

Because
everybody knows that sequel = Cash cow money making that will ruin the
entire series forever. God forbid something different comes along.

Ahh yes, fantastic. People would have readily accpted the changes to Dragon Age they didn't like had The Matrix seen better sequels. These people of course, haven't seen the sequels to Godfather, Terminator, and Batman Begins.

eyesofastorm wrote...

This boggles the mind a bit...

Fear
of change, huh? I think some are confusing the words fear and change.
Folks typically fear change when change brings with it the unknown. I
do not fear the changes Bioware is making because I know the nature of
these changes. I have played action games. I have played JRPGS and
PRG-lites, if you will. I do not fear these types of games. I dislike
them. I know what the new art style looks like and I don't like it. I
know that I can only play a human and I don't like it. I know that the
protagonist is voiced and, for what I hoped would be a traditional role
playing game, I don't like it. I know that I can't get a bird's eye
view of the battlefield as I could in DA:O on the pc and I don't like
it. I know that party member inventories are cut down and I don't like
it. I do not fear these changes... I simply don't like them. Now,
someone tell me that this is not a valid reason to complain.

Further,
the people that come here to complain about the changes that Bioware is
making are doing so in the hope (be it ever so slight) that Bioware
will listen and again make the kinds of games that they like. What I
don't understand is why people who are happy with the direction in which
Bioware is going... people whose gaming needs are being met by Bioware
are here complaining about people complaining. Tell me honestly what is
more pathetic: someone here complaining with a clear purpose in mind or
someone here complaining about complainers because they don't have
anything better to do.

/thread

Well put.

[Andraste_Reborn]

. The magic system. In Baldur's Gate, there was always a feasible way to counter-act any and every negative spell. In DA, there are none. You get hit with that spell that prevents healing and you die. End of combat. This is a major reason why I sold the game.

I take it you never discovered Glyph of Neutralisation. Clears that Curse of Mortality right up.



/off-topic

[FedericoV]

RussianSpy27 wrote...

What's happening, IMO, is that they're trying something new with the series. Yes, they're creating one character instead of 6, yes they're going toward the "more like a movie" route, but they also believe it will work, be very enjoyable and appealing. No one is saying that future releases will not render something similar to DA:O. DA:O was a story of a nameless Warden, while DA2 is a story of a known hero...I trust there'll be many more stories to tell in the fantasy world of DA that will involve more than one format that will not be disappointing. 

I'm a supporter of the Dragon Age franchise and I've allready preordered DA2. The design of DA2 is addressign many problems. Unfortunately, most of the probelsm of DA:O were in the consolle version port. Now, they are trying to make a game with more uniformity between different platforms. The end result is that the PC version in some way has received most changes and PC players are complaining about that. They fear that DA2 will be an inferior game on the PC and since there are not a lot of game designed with the PC in mind, we should comprehend where the rage and bitterness come.

In my opinion, Bioware's design choices are legitimate and even if I'm a PC player I feel that they are going mostly in the right direction (dialogue wheel, protagonist voice over, more unique outfits for NPC, rule system streamlization, more distinct class system). But even if I support the DA franchise and understand dev's choices, sometimes I fear that they DA2 will result as a less unique and less recognizable game than DA:O (removal of Iso view, restricted weapon selection to  classes, over the top animations). 

Modifié par FedericoV, 08 décembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Pugnate wrote...

I find some of the comments in this thread absolutely ridiculous. People complaining for the sake of it? People complaining because they essentially hate change? People having some false sense of entitlement?



Are some of you so arrogant that you can't accept that most of the PC gaming public actually don't like most of the changes announced, because they feel that these changes will make for a poorer gaming experience?



Is it really that much easier to believe in some ulterior psychological motive?



I don't know if some of you have visited other gaming forums, but the feeling on the changes made for Dragon Age 2 are largely negative. And no, it isn't because they are whiny little nitwits complaining for the sake of it.

Arrogant? Us?

States the person claiming to know the majority of PC gamers and that the majority isn't liking the change?

Ok, maybe your not arrogant, but to come out with such a statement truly does say something about you.

Just because people are saying the same thing you are saying on this site, doesn't mean it is the majority and no am not going to be 'arrogant' and claim your the vocal minority either even if I do think it is more likely the case than you being the vocal majority.

I am quite sure that there are lots of people out there that will be getting the game that don't even bother going on any forums at all. So please don't try to act as if you know the majority of PC gamers aren't liking it, because you don't know if that is true or not.

Now with regards to some of the other comments made. I really don't understand this whole "I don't like the sound of it as it is going to be shorter than DAO".
So let me get this right, even if the story can be fitted into a shorter space of time without losing any content, your going to complain about that? Basically put you want them to drag the story out so that it is longer for no other purpose than it being longer? Am sorry I just can't understand such mentality.

With regards the 'Followers' having their own unique outfits and thus the obvious ME2 comparison. I'll admit when it comes to 'hazardous' areas (and the Quarian Fleet) those outfits do look silly, but people seem to forget that the group is a group of random people, not some 'organisation' (ok Jacob and Miranda probably should've been putting on the Cerberus Armor) so they are going to have 'individual' looks. Now with regards DA2, we've already been told that Aveline will get proper armor and if I remember rightly fairly early on too. Isabella, she's a pirate. Yes she wore 'armor' in DAO but I think back then they weren't looking at her returning for DA2 and they just decided to bring her back after, but please tell me when have you ever seen a pirate in proper armor (even full on leather), I can't think of anytime and am not just talking about PotC either, but in lots of various pirate stories. Where am sat, the only real reason I think some of you are complaining about her is because she's showing a bit of flesh. Funny because I recall most of the Leather armors in DAO having no coverage over the arms or thighs. Ahh but we can see her cleavage, my defence for that... Chasind Robe. Yup even DAO had an outfit showing cleavage, so don't try to use that as a complaint.

Origins...
Sorry but I agree with Dave here, I'd much rather have one GOOD origin than one where the only slight difference was a couple of variations in comments aimed at us and a couple of encounters being slightly different due to us knowing people from our Origin.

As for Hawke not being our character? Colour me curious, why are people saying this? Hawke is no different to a large number of the Wardens, most particularly the Human Noble whom I would bet was the most played. Yeah he isn't a noble, but just like Human Noble, he had brother (though he has a Sister too) and a mother and a father (probably one of the few to actually have both of the latter alive or seen on screen) and of course he had a tiny bit of background. The fact is, you could still shape them into whomever you wanted them to be and I highly doubt that won't be the case in DA2. After all there is the whole point of "Who is calling Hawke the Champion"

See, the above is the reason why there is a number of us really stunned by some of the complaints. Because a lot of them are dumbfounded or so inaccurate that it begs belief.