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[Zombie Chow]

What's the current thinking for Soldier on Insanity, specifically which version of Adrenaline Rush to use when maxed out and the weapon from the Disabled Vessel please?  I do not have the weapon DLCs.

Past conventional wisdom used to be like this:

Option 1 - get the Revenant Assault Rifle, then Hardened Rush as that's better for rapid-fire weapons

Option 2 - get the Widow because boom headshot, then Heightened Rush for slow-fire weapons

I'm just seeing if that's the current view as well.

FINAL EDIT - I actually looked at everyone's advice and tested out a number of scenarios, using their input as a guide.  I made a decision, lower down this page, in case anyone asks about this in the future.

Modifié par Zombie Chow, 11 décembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[lazuli]

That seems to be the current thinking as well.

[ryoldschool]

You got it right, but for 2 bucks the DLC firepower pack makes the soldier quite a force, and the widow + mattock + geth shotgun is very powerful.

[Mocker22]

Close Quarters - Revenant + Viper + shotgun of choice

Ranged - Widow + Mattock

[Bozorgmehr]

Zombie Chow wrote...

I'd like to narrow down the question a bit.  For Insanity, which of those options should I go for, Revenant/Hardened or Widow/Heightened?

I'll go for the Revy - you can use the Mattock anyway (and early game). Widow is nice too, but QCQ is most rewarding way to fight imho.

[lazuli]

It depends on whether or not you like the Revenant. Give it a try if you haven't yet. If you're used to the Mattock, though, the Revenant can seem underpowered. That was my experience at least. I never got around to making a Revenant Soldier until well after the Firepower Pack came out.

[Lord_Caledore]

Widow's a safer route, in my experience, since you can hug cover most of the time. To get full use out of the Revenant, you need to be out of cover and up close a lot. It's more dangerous but I find it extremely rewarding and exciting. The only downside to the Revvy is I rarely pull out my shotgun anymore.



The Widow can be fun, but it's a little low on the ammo, and since you also don't have the Firepower pack, you'll probably be using the Vindicator as your AR, and that can have ammo issues too. Plus personally I never really liked the feel of the Vindy, but your mileage may vary.



I can't speak to the Mattock and GPS due to not having the Firepower Pack. Whether you plan on getting that DLC or not, I'd recommend having a save right before the weapon choice and try out both.

[Ahglock]

I am a fan of reve/heightened. The increased maneuverability form heightened actually seems to decrease the damage I take more than hardened does. It may be an optical illusion though.

[SSoG]

Ahglock wrote...

I am a fan of reve/heightened. The increased maneuverability form heightened actually seems to decrease the damage I take more than hardened does. It may be an optical illusion though.

It's not. In terms of DPS, Hardened decreases the damage you take by 50% (because enemies fire at half speed), and then decreases it by another 50% if you're down to health, resulting in 75% less DPS against health and 50% less DPS against shields. Heightened just gives you a flat 70% DPS against both health and shields. Unless you spend pretty much the entire game down to health, you'll take substantially less DPS under Heightened. In other words, if you just stood in the open in front of a dozen enemies and activated AR, you'll laster longer under Heightened than under Hardened.

Of course, that's only true against rapid-fire attacks like gunfire, pyro flamethrowers, Collector Assassins, husk swarms, etc. It doesn't work that way against big ticket attacks like rockets, Scion shockwaves, Harby's singularity, Abomination 'Splosions, etc. The damage from those isn't really mitigated by the time dilation (since it's not like you can get hit 50% less often when time is slowed down- either you get hit and take full damage, or you don't and you take no damage). In those cases, Hardened will definitely do more to lower the damage you receive than Heightened (which won't do anything). Of course, against those real big-ticket attacks, Heightened makes it far easier to dodge them entirely since your effective move speed (or, rather, your movespeed relative to the speed of the projectile) is 66% faster in Heightened than in Hardened. Hardened will cause you to take slightly less damage (not anywhere near 50% less, because it doesn't help your shields and most damage you take is going to be hitting your shields), but Heightened increases your chances of avoiding damage entirely.

Unless your weapon can hit certain breakpoints under Hardened that it can't hit under Heightened (say, if your shotgun can fire 2 shots in Hardened but only 1 in Heightened), I think Heightened AR is pretty much always the way to go.

[Zombie Chow]

I just tested both Hardened and Heightened Rush out. I discovered I have a clear personal preference for Heightened on Insanity.



Basically, the damage protection from Hardened doesn't scale well to Insanity. With a Soldier here, I want to hug cover as much as possible, and every time I duck out of it I want to make it worth every second. Heightened does exactly that.



It's a very different playing style. I normally play Sentinels (which I still consider my personal best class on Insanity as it has both survivability and defense stripping powers). As a Sentinel, I would deliberately make myself a target to draw fire away from Squad Members. Now, I use Heightened Rush to take out those firing on Squad Members. It's the opposite tactic, yet the same principle.



Now, I've just played up to Horizon and had the best Horizon run ever, thanks to the damage output of Heightened to take out the Scions and Harbinger. Having progressed this far, I found:



- I use the Mantis Sniper Rifle and Eviscerator Shotgun more than my Vindy Assault Rifle

- I found Grunt to be useful again (I loved him in Veteran, but not on Hardcore)

- now I see why people love Reave...it's to immobilise Krogan rather than damage or healing



Even though I prefer Heightened, I'm not entirely sure if that means I should pick up the Widow, having read Ahglock's comment. I'm even toying with the idea of the Claymore. I welcome anyone to share their experiences. I might have to play through the Disabled Collector Ship to further experiment.

[Zombie Chow]

SSoG wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I am a fan of reve/heightened. The increased maneuverability form heightened actually seems to decrease the damage I take more than hardened does. It may be an optical illusion though.

It's not. In terms of DPS, Hardened decreases the damage you take by 50% (because enemies fire at half speed), and then decreases it by another 50% if you're down to health, resulting in 75% less DPS against health and 50% less DPS against shields. Heightened just gives you a flat 70% DPS against both health and shields. Unless you spend pretty much the entire game down to health, you'll take substantially less DPS under Heightened. In other words, if you just stood in the open in front of a dozen enemies and activated AR, you'll laster longer under Heightened than under Hardened.

Hi, I think I read a recent post from you on this point.  That's what got me thinking, so I thank you!  I agree with your premise, that greater time dilation ITSELF acts indirectly as a form of damage protection.

When experimenting with this, I found another point with Heightened's defense advantage.  Since it enhances my attacks, I kill enemies faster, which means I actually spend less time out of cover anyway.

You can assume that you're going to take damage any time you're out of cover.  Heightened is not only reducing the damage, it's actually preventing damage.  That's a huge advantage, too.

A huge reason why I started this thread was because I remember the argument on the Sentinel's Tech Armour, whether to go for the additional defense of Power Armour or the knock-back effect of Assault Armour.  It turns out that in almost all situations Assault Armour actually has a better defense in practice.  That's what I'm seeing with Heightened Rush.  I really like this because it's a counter-intuitive point that only Mass Effect Masters know.

[Ahglock]

Zombie Chow wrote...


A huge reason why I started this thread was because I remember the argument on the Sentinel's Tech Armour, whether to go for the additional defense of Power Armour or the knock-back effect of Assault Armour.  It turns out that in almost all situations Assault Armour actually has a better defense in practice.  That's what I'm seeing with Heightened Rush.  I really like this because it's a counter-intuitive point that only Mass Effect Masters know.

I'm usually an adept player and singualrity has its own counter-inturitive point.  Wide hits more targets because it is wide, but it holds less people so it really hits less targets overall.  I'd played around with the other classes and figured these things out on my own for the most part.  But my favorite class the adept, I never even tried heavy until I read stuff on this board.  I was stuck in a mind set about how I thought it should be and not what it was. 

[kstarler]

I think which AR you evolve really depends on how you intend to play the class. If you are playing like Sinosleep does in this video, then Hardened is likely the better choice, because you're going to see a lot of red veins (as he points out in the description). However, if you are playing more conservatively and using cover rather than constantly pressing the attack, then Heightened is likely the better choice. I believe, however, that the Vindicator performs better under Hardened because you can get off three bursts instead of two. Even before the Mattock, I prefered the Avenger to the Vindicator, so I can't say for certain though.

[Zombie Chow]

Hi all, I genuine appreciate your tips.  I like details like at the end on how Hardened can squeeze an extra burst from the Vindicator.  I've reached a final decision, at least for myself.  I listened to everyone's input, but also tested it out for myself:

1. A long time ago, played Soldier with Hardened/Revenant on Hardcore, so I remember that experience
2. I recently ried Hardened and Heightened on Warlord Okeer/Grunt recruitment mission (I reloaded)
3. I then tried all 3 super weapons (Revenant, Claymore, Widow) on Collector Ship (I reloaded)
4. Continued playing to Tali's loyalty mission just now

The result - Heightened + Widow for Insanity

What ultimately convinced me was Tali's loyalty mission.  As a Hardened Rush Soldier with the Revenant on Hardcore, I was getting over-run...there were just too many waves of Geth.  I died so many times that I actually took a break from ME2.

Then I tried it again just now with the Heightened + Widow.  It was no problem.  I admit I died once, but I'm sure that was because I blew myself up with the Cain in the final boss room.  I actually turned on Heightened Rush right when the Cain was fully charged and fired, so I did +40% nuclear blast on myself.

The reason for the Widow - there's actually 2 "opportunity costs"

Choosing the Widow prevented me from getting the Revenant or Claymore.  That's 1 opportunity cost.  In my case, the Widow had a TINY edge over the Revenant actually...they're both good guns.

But then there's a 2nd opportunity cost that I didn't think of...the Vindicator Assault Rifle.  That's actually a really good rifle as well, only slightly inferior to the Revenant IMHO.  If I took the Revenant, I couldn't use the Vindicator.  If I took the Widow, I could still use the Vindicator.

It wasn't simply Widow > Revenant.  It's more like the Widow's improvement over other sniper rifles > the Revenant's improvement over the Vindicator.

One nuance/tactic - I only fired under Heightened Rush (once I got it), the cool-down time was not a problem

I kind of fell into this habit.  Heightened Rush recharges relatively quickly.  It allows me to get headshots every time.  And the +40% helps.  I started doing this to conserve ammo...

...then I found this was a good discipline.  Why?  The cool-down time actually got me into the habit of studying the battlefield more.  I check out how much health/defenses each enemy has, then prioritise, then get in position for the headshot.  My priority targets are a.) whoever's targeting my lower health Squad Member or b.) Harbinger.

So just my 2 cents, in case anyone googles this in the future.

Modifié par Zombie Chow, 11 décembre 2010 - 02:50 .