22 réponses à ce sujet

[Failedlegend]

Hey guys I've been racking my brains to get a swiftblade caster to work
without sacrificing to much in the way of casting I've tried both bard
and wiz so far and wiz seems to work better (quicker spell gain &
higher overall spell power) but beyond that I'm lost…anyways here's the build.

Note: I'm also working on a Sorc Alternative but like Bard while plausible it seems it will fall behind the wiz version.


Tiefling Wizard(7) Swashbuckler(3) Swiftblade (10)

Str 14
Dex 18+1 Lvl (19…for GTWF)
Con 14
Int 18+4 Lvls (22)
Wis 8
Cha 6


1 Wizard *Two Weapon Fighting* *Scribe Scroll*

2 Wizard

3 Wizard *Dodge*

4 Swashbuckler INT *Weapon Finesse*

5 Swashbuckler

6 Swashbuckler *Insightful Strike* *Mobility*

7 Wizard

8 Wizard DEX *Craft Magic Arms & Armor* (Kaedrin's version…whats the diff)

9 Swiftblade *Extend Spell* *Swift Surge* *Spring Attack*

10 Swiftblade *Blurred Alacrity*

11 Swiftblade * Residual Celerity*

12 Swiftblade INT *Practiced Spellcaster* *Improved Initiative*

13 Swiftblade *Evasive Celerity*

14 Swiftblade *Fortified Hustle*

15 Swiftblade *Improved Two-Weapon Fighting* * Uncanny Dodge*

16 Swiftblade INT *Diligent Rapidity*

17 Swiftblade *Perpetual Celerity*

18 Swiftblade *Greater Two-Weapon Fighting* *Innervated Speed*

19 Wizard

20 Wizard INT

Modifié par Failedlegend, 08 décembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Arkalezth]

There's this site for builds, if you want to take a look or post it there:

http://nwn2db.com/

You have an XP penalty with that race. Take Swashbuckler at level 1 for more skill points.

Is this for the OC? If so, you can use companions to craft and enchant items.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 08 décembre 2010 - 02:58 .

[Failedlegend]

Arkalezth wrote...

There's this site for builds, if you want to take a look or post it there:

http://nwn2db.com/

You have an XP penalty with that race. Take Swashbuckler at level 1 for more skill points.

Is this for the OC? If so, you can use companions to craft and enchant items.

Yeah I tried usig that site but this is the only build that shows up with both wizard and swiftblade without being above lvl 20 http://nwn2db.com/bu...13224&version=1 and it only obtains aster lvl 3 (although i'm not sure why) and I want at least 6th lvl spells and to include swiftblade.

As far as the Tiefling I know it's ECL+1 but I figured the bonuses to both of my main stats and the other bonuses would balance it out,,,too bad theres not a +2 int/dex -2 wis/cha non-ECL race (Like Moon Elf is +2 Str/Dex & -2 Con/Int) within Kaedrin's Pack

Modifié par Failedlegend, 08 décembre 2010 - 04:09 .

[Arkalezth]

ECL is a different thing. I mean a penalty to experience from multi-classing. To avoid it, you need a race with favored class: Wizard or "Any". Moon or Sun Elf would be good races here. Human is decent, too. Drow is the best, but it's ECL +2.

And I mentioned that site because it's faster to post it there (and link it here if you want) than writing everything, as you did.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

Failedlegend wrote...

Arkalezth wrote...

There's this site for builds, if you want to take a look or post it there:

http://nwn2db.com/

You have an XP penalty with that race. Take Swashbuckler at level 1 for more skill points.

Is this for the OC? If so, you can use companions to craft and enchant items.

Yeah I tried usig that site but this is the only build that shows up with both wizard and swiftblade without being above lvl 20 http://nwn2db.com/bu...13224&version=1 and it only obtains aster lvl 3 (although i'm not sure why) and I want at least 6th lvl spells and to include swiftblade.

As far as the Tiefling I know it's ECL+1 but I figured the bonuses to both of my main stats and the other bonuses would balance it out,,,too bad theres not a +2 int/dex -2 wis/cha non-ECL race (Like Moon Elf is +2 Str/Dex & -2 Con/Int) within Kaedrin's Pack

Builder error. Should be CL 12 (16 if you can fit in Practiced Spellcaster) and get 6th level magic if my math is right.

If you're going Swiftblade, you need to be ready to accept that you're not a primary caster, especially if you're going only to 20. High DEX is a better investment for you than INT even with Insightful Strike, since AB is harder to come by than extra damage and DEX will boost your AC as well. INT can actually safely be dropped to 16 + 1 so you can cast your 7th level spells without an item. Then just stick to No-Save spells and buffs, and focus on DEX. You don't need Strength at all either, so you can easily start with 20 DEX if you use a Moon Elf or Drow.

And I really would, otherwise you suffer an XP penalty starting at level 8. In the 3.5 rules, if your multi-classed character has a level gap between base classes of 2 or more, you get a cumulative (per unbalanced class) 20% penalty on all EXP gained until your classes are even again.

EDIT: Swiftblade/Bards make excellent spellswords, what with inspirations, good buff spells, and casting in armor. I threw together a 20-level build for you on the builder, here's the link: http://nwn2db.com/bu...44111&version=1

Modifié par DragonOfWhiteThunder, 09 décembre 2010 - 05:36 .

[Failedlegend]

Thanks guys I've taken your advice into account especially the Favored class thing (i didn't realize the penalty was that severe) anyways this is what I've come up with. (Will be using a Mod to create own party for OC)

1) Samantha Quil'bar - Female Drow "The Haste Junkie" Wizard (7), Swashbuckler (3), Swiftblade(10)

2) Meruna Ashworthy - Female SH-Halfling "Inspiring Sea Captain" Bard (9), Rouge (2), Dread Pirate (9), Canith Lyrist (3)

3) Gaia Zan-Kyri - Male Earth Genasi "Guardian of the Trees" Druid (5), Fighter (1), Nature's Warrior (4), Forest Master (10)

4) Grognak Treefist - Male Gray-Orc "Wall of Fists" Monk (6), Cleric (1), Fist of the Forest (3), Sacred Fist (10)

1,2 and 3 I like..dunno if their optimum but w/e half the stuff i added was to follow my self imposed themes but #4 was supposed to be an High AC, SR, HP with some Immunites build but I just can't seem to get it to work right...especiall with my Evil only restriction. (no reason for evil only except i tend to kill most of what gets in my in games and i know i wouldn't last long as a pally or other do-gooder...ie. *SPOILER* I killed the  mossfields the first chance I got *END SPOILER*)


EDIT: Oh I guess I should mention the restrictions.

1) - Must Have at least 2 Crafting skills
     - Must Take Swiftblade
     - Must have at least 6th lvl spells (Attempt to avoid classes with limited or no splee prog)
      - Must take Keidran's Craft Arms and Armor Feat
    
2) - Must be pirate,sailor or similar themed
     - Must take Bard
     - Any PrCs to be Bard or Theme Related

3) - Forest/Earth Theme
   
4) - Must have high AC, HP and as many immunities as possible without gimping it (yeah this ones not complete)

All)  - Must Be evil (chaotic,neutral or Lawful)
       - Must fufill Trapsmith,Bard-Like, Defensive and Healer roles
       - Must all be different races (optional but preferred)
       - Must be one Halfling (Said halfling must be as short as possible for comedic effect)
       - Must be One Genasi or Tiefling
       - Must have at least one person that can carry a bunch of stuff (decent Str)
       - Make one Race really tall and large (likely #4)

Note: I wanted to try to fit Monk, Forest Master,Swiftblade, Red Dragon Disciple, Fist of the Forest, Dread Pirate,Sacred Fist, Favored Soul, Dread Commando, Elemental Archer, Skullclan Hunter and one of the Nightsong PrCs in somewhere but with the exception of RDD I got the ones that really interested me in (FM, FotF,S-Fist, DP and S-Blade).

Modifié par Failedlegend, 09 décembre 2010 - 09:38 .

[Arkalezth]

It seems that you got the multiclassing rules, they don't have XP penalties now (though some are ECL races).

Those aren't good casters, they're hybrids, so you should focus less on the casting stat (leave it at the minimum needed to cast all spells) and more on STR or DEX (depending on the build). Maybe the Wizard, it doesn't have a great caster level, but it can use some offensive spells, INT counts for damage, and you don't need a high AB for the OC.

And you don't need to min-max that much. Spread your stats some more.

More specific comments:

2) I'd leave DP at 7 and Bard at 8 and take more CL. Leave CHA at 13-14.

3) Nature's Warrior focuses on Wild Shape. Forest Master uses a Warmace in human form. They don't mix well, better to choose one or another. I'd drop Maximize.

All: Take Blind Fight with every melee build (so take it with everyone). There's an item in the OC that gives Blind Fight for free, so one of the characters can rely on it.

[Failedlegend]

Arkalezth wrote...

It seems that you got the multiclassing rules, they don't have XP penalties now (though some are ECL races).
Those aren't good casters, they're hybrids, so you should focus less on the casting stat (leave it at the minimum needed to cast all spells) and more on STR or DEX (depending on the build). Maybe the Wizard, it doesn't have a great caster level, but it can use some offensive spells, INT counts for damage, and you don't need a high AB for the OC.
And you don't need to min-max that much. Spread your stats some more.
More specific comments:
2) I'd leave DP at 7 and Bard at 8 and take more CL. Leave CHA at 13-14.
3) Nature's Warrior focuses on Wild Shape. Forest Master uses a Warmace in human form. They don't mix well, better to choose one or another. I'd drop Maximize.
All: Take Blind Fight with every melee build (so take it with everyone). There's an item in the OC that gives Blind Fight for free, so one of the characters can rely on it.

Hmmm...ok Bard Cha reduced pumped into Dex/Con....up until recently it had a lock lvl for saves (dark ones luck) but without it I guess theres less reason to have high Cha...also reduced DP to lvl 7 (8 and 9 were mostly pointless anyway) and replaced with Canaith Lyrist levels (aka Rogue/Bard lvls).

As far as Blind- Fight goes...I think i can fit it in but what lvl is it needed by most of the early feats are locked in where they are as Pre-reqs

Wall of fists...needs to be totally redone its just not what it was meant to be...a High AC,High HP Beast with (if possible) SR and/or Immunities preferabley with either a large race like Earth Genasi wearing Heavy Armor or a small race like a gnome with ninja duelist monk or other AC raising class....Deep Gnome was kind of a Band-Aid to fix that but with the xp penalty it was pointless.

As far as dropping Nature's warrior thats no biggie...as logn as It keeps Forest master and preferable druid. (Although an Silvanus FvS/Forest Master might be intreresting)

Simplified each build started off as these

1) Swiftblade + Arcane (Not Bard)
2) AC + HP + Immunities *Probably Str/Con Based
3) Forest Master + Divine + Earth/Nature Theme
4) Bard + Pirate Theme + Trapskills + UMD + Make Aliies better + Mostly Stand in back during combat + Ranged?

ALL) No pure...pure is boring

Note: I prefer Sorc, FvS and Spirit Shaman vs. Wiz, Cleric and Druid but their Harder to multi-class.

Modifié par Failedlegend, 09 décembre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Arkalezth]

Forest Master is all about melee with a warmace. And you don't need a "tank", as in other games. The monk can be something like this:

http://nwn2db.com/bu...32686&version=1

The Bard can be good at both range and melee. But keep in mind that inspirations have a limited range, so try to stay near the rest of the party even if you use a bow.

Edit: You could leave Dread Pirate at 3 and take 4 more Canaith Lyrist. You lose basically nothing, and gain spells and songs.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 09 décembre 2010 - 11:39 .

[NWN DM]

I don't understand the attraction of planning the "perfect" uber leet mazter haxxorz 40th level demi-god PC.

[avado]

NWN DM wrote...

I don't understand the attraction of planning the "perfect" uber leet mazter haxxorz 40th level demi-god PC.

That's cuz you are a DM!  And nwn2 goes to lv 30  

Besides, I did the "perfect" build (FOR ME) many moons ago and posted it.  To this day, it still brings a tear to my eye at how utterly PERFECT it was... 

LOL  TO answer your question though, people think this game is about RP.   It isnt.  Its really about meeting new peope and having a run together (whether that be RP, hack n slash, etc).  When you have a toon that sucks, people dont want to play with you, its that simple.  In order to keep your date card full, you have to learn to build an uber duber toon.  No one wants to play alone (unless you are stryder or avado and actually have the uberest toons around)!    

The thing with this is, you cannot have a caster and meleer with both in 20 lvls.  Even30 is stretching it.  What I would look at is maybe a wizard/swiftbl/Eldrich knight sort of thing.  That way you can get caster lvls AND melee abilities. 

[Arkalezth]

I play alone.

I agree that you don't need the perfect character, but the OP asked for criticism, and that's what she (she?) got. 1 more or less AB isn't that important, but building a character with two classes that don't mix well is.

Some people have fun roleplaying, others building characters and feeling powerful, and others enjoy both things.

Personally, what I don't get is people that make builds that are useful only at level 30. What's up with the first 29? Maybe they won't even reach 30. I play modules, and it's rare to see one that goes past level 10.

And BTW, yes, you can make a caster/meleer with 20 levels. Without Kaedrin's pack. I'd even say that it's easier with 20 levels than with 30.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:21 .

[Failedlegend]

Arkalezth wrote...

I play alone.

I agree that you don't need the perfect character, but the OP asked for criticism, and that's what she (she?) got. 1 more or less AB isn't that important, but building a character with two classes that don't mix well is.

Some people have fun roleplaying, others building characters and feeling powerful, and others enjoy both things.

Personally, what I don't get is people that make builds that are useful only at level 30. What's up with the first 29? Maybe they won't even reach 30. I play modules, and it's rare to see one that goes past level 10.

And BTW, yes, you can make a caster/meleer with 20 levels. Without Kaedrin's pack. I'd even say that it's easier with 20 levels than with 30.

I mostly play alone or through LAN (refering to games in general.) I dislike playing over the internet as far as my playstyle I like to impose themes or limits on my toons in hopes it will turn up some interesting and powerful builds within those confines.

As far as the making a build for Lvl 30 (or whatever cap a specific game has) I think thats partly the fault of MMOs where the first 59 out of 60 lvls are the tutorial and the "End" Game is the REAL game..I don't really like MMOs in general but I do play DDO because my friends do (good thing to do when we only have an hour two of off-time overlapping) and frankly i hit the cap I start a new toon but I'm an oddity in that aspect.

oh and I'm a guy btw

Modifié par Failedlegend, 10 décembre 2010 - 03:36 .

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

To me, the allure of character-building is setting a goal, then figuring out how you can reach it most effectively. Yeah, I could use a Fighter 20 build, and make an interesting weapons specialist out of that, or a Wizard/Sorcerer 20 and have fun telling the game engine to sit down and shut up. But it's a lot more fun for me to look out over all the options that are available. Can I make something that's fun to play and effective enough that I won't get my tail kicked? Then, can I build a character around those classes that makes sense? That's why my first character was a Fighter/Cleric/Weapon Master/Neverwinter Nine, it looked fun to play, and the abilities meshed surprisingly well. But it wasn't optimal by any stretch, so I've started looking at other paths to go through the games, and learned some ground rules of character-building.



I agree that builds that only really function at Level 30 are baffling to me as well. Perhaps there are dedicated PvP Persistent Worlds that start you at Level 30 with all the gear you'll need, in which case those builds make sense. Or there might be Worlds with dedicated Level 30 play. But I'd really rather play my concept from as close to start as I can.

[dunniteowl]

While I, too, have little personal interest in the whole 'build' process/mindset, I do recognize it as a completely valid way to enjoy one's self. I doubt that I know anyone nearly as interested in mapmaking and map gazing as myself. I am sure everyone recognizes their intrinsic value, but no-one I have met has ever thought I was 'normal' over my love of maps, so I have to give anyone else's niche appreciation it's due.

If you enjoy it, then it works for you and that's enough to make it viable and reasonable as a topic of discussion. I'll grant you, it makes my eyes glaze over, but I do learn some interesting synergies and tidbits that, someday, may make a valuable contribution to my decision making at some level when I have to choose another skill/feat/ability and recall how that works well (or not) with something I already have.

So rock on, fellas, every now and then I learn something from what you enjoy and, more importantly, it's what you enjoy.

dunniteowl

[Failedlegend]

Hey guys here's the new party...i replaced the pirate theme with Dragons

1) Samantha Quilbar Female Drow   Sorceror (7) Swiftblade (9) Elemental Warrior (4) " Haste Junkie"

2) Meruna Ashworthy Female Halfling Bard (8) Rogue (2) Canaith Lyrist (10) "Theivin' Little Bard"

3) Grognak Treefist Male Half-Orc Barbarian (4) Sorceror (1) Dragon Disiple (10) Frenzied Berzerker "Raging Dragon"

4) Renja Karudo Male Human FvS (6) Ranger (1) Dragon Warrior (3) Forest Master (10) "Dragon Soul"

[Arkalezth]

My advice: start playing.

Some things can be improved, but you don't need uber builds, and the OC is newbie friendly.

[Failedlegend]

Arkalezth wrote...

My advice: start playing.
Some things can be improved, but you don't need uber builds, and the OC is newbie friendly.

*****SPOILERS****

One final qiestion though wil having a full parety of 4 mess up the game ie. you start off as your 4 members...shortly after starting that fighter guy and the mage joins you....later the mage dies...the fighter doesn't leave the swap with you and than a dwarf and a teifling later join you...and im sure more come along...how does that work?

[Arkalezth]

I guess you can dismiss them, but you should ask Kaldor Silverwand (the builder of the Makeover) about it.

[Failedlegend]

Arkalezth wrote...

I guess you can dismiss them, but you should ask Kaldor Silverwand (the builder of the Makeover) about it.

Thanks for all the help guys...playing now...awesome (cept for the camera )

Oh btw I'm switching my builds back to private because some jerk is filling my comments with his whining

Modifié par Failedlegend, 12 décembre 2010 - 03:46 .

[Arkalezth]

That "jerk" was only criticizing your builds to make them better. Some comments may sound harsh at times, but he gives good advice usually (I left a comment in a build, but I think you're refeering to another poster).

Modifié par Arkalezth, 12 décembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Failedlegend]

Arkalezth wrote...

That "jerk" was only criticizing your builds to make them better. Some comments may sound harsh at times, but he gives good advice usually (I left a comment in a build, but I think you're refeering to another poster).

Yeah thew bobthebuilder guy and I have no problems with a little CC actually I was hoping to get some so but he could avoid using terms like "it's like you want to immortalize your stupidity or something." or  "Do you need a slap to wake you up or something?"

Also for example this statement "
You forgot to change the level-up points from dexterity to strength.
Quarterstaff...?  Did you choose that so you could become ineffective
when faced with something with adamantine damage reduction, or to
prevent yourself using a shield, or was it the poor critical modifer and
threat range?"

The first paragraph is perfect the second one..well....something like this would be better

You probably shouldn't use a quarterstaff its lacks the ability to break through Addamitine DR  and the crit range is pretty abysmal your better off using a {Insert weapon here} or a {insert weapon here} and a sheild [optional}] because they {insert reason here}

or like this

Nature's Warrior focuses on Wild Shape. Forest Master uses a Warmace in
human form. They don't mix well, better to choose one or another. :happy:

Much less of an attack and adding a possible fix or reasoning...thats CC I could understand talking like that if you had been arguing for a while and getting frustrated but thats the first comment.

Modifié par Failedlegend, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:56 .

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

Failedlegend wrote...

Arkalezth wrote...

My advice: start playing.
Some things can be improved, but you don't need uber builds, and the OC is newbie friendly.

*****SPOILERS****

One final qiestion though wil having a full parety of 4 mess up the game ie. you start off as your 4 members...shortly after starting that fighter guy and the mage joins you....later the mage dies...the fighter doesn't leave the swap with you and than a dwarf and a teifling later join you...and im sure more come along...how does that work?

As far as I've played, having a full party of 4 + 3 companions doesn't break the game engine at all. If you don't want to tromp around with a small army, however, you can just choose to leave all your companions at the Sunken Flagon.