789 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedro BR]

Hawke's voice.... awesome! Good job Bioware, kudos

[namedforthemoon]

lunarknightmage wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Rouge teleport is not an activated move but a constantly used automatic one... huge difference

I thought the Rogue teleport was an activated talent move.

I didn't think there was a Rogue Teleport. I thought it was "Stealth-Strike".

[DPB]

namedforthemoon wrote...

I didn't think there was a Rogue Teleport. I thought it was "Stealth-Strike".

It's called Backstab, shown below the character portrait when it's used. As I said, you can even see it on the quickbar recharging.

[Eclipse_9990]

namedforthemoon wrote...

lunarknightmage wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Rouge teleport is not an activated move but a constantly used automatic one... huge difference

I thought the Rogue teleport was an activated talent move.

I didn't think there was a Rogue Teleport. I thought it was "Stealth-Strike".

So haters were bashing, and jumping to conclusions again.. I'm shocked!   /sarcasm

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[upsettingshorts]

Meh, Tiax ain't one of the knee-jerk incoherent "haters." Cut him some slack.

[John Epler]

Other people are entitled to their own opinions.

Just because someone doesn't like the direction the game is going is no reason to shout them down. Discuss points and leave out the personal attacks and flippant dismissals.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:16 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Meh, Tiax ain't one of the knee-jerk incoherent "haters." Cut him some slack.

Well.. I guess I should relax as well. People are entitled to their opinions, especially if they had high expectations for a game. Plus I'm kinda new to the forums so I don't really know who's a consitant "hater" or not.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:17 .

[Beaner28]

So it is just like Flicker in Awakening then? But maybe not an AoE this time.

[Big Blue Car]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What would you replace agile melee rogues with, then? And I ask because I genuinely expect an answer, this isn't a rhetorical question meant to dismiss your point.

Well the obvious would be adaptive animations to show the model physically move into place. Or else for the rogue to have acrobatic attacks which don't involve teleporting; sliding under legs, flipping over enemies or just smart positional play to create backstab opportunities.

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Car.. If you guys want a 100% realistic unadulteraited fantasy rpg. I suggest you go larping in the woods because I guarantee thats the only way you'll get what you want. 

Yeah my bad we are wrong to have semi-negative opinions. We don't want 100% realism, we just want our games to at least vaguely follow the physical laws of the universe we all know and love.

PS obviously magic doesn't apply, it's a literary conceit, and if the devs say that the rogue teleporting is actually magic I will actually stop complaining about it.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, what I was going for was:

"Hey, we need a way to get our rogues to backstab in a responsive way, let's have them tumble behind guys and stab em"

"We can't program that for reasons X,Y,Z."

"Hmm, what if we designed a teleportation abstraction that simply made the rogue swiftly appear behind them?"

"We can do that."



I mean, unless you're suggesting they should have done without rogues and backstabbing in general, which is a whole other enchilada.

Mmm, enchiladas...

*slaps self round back of head*

Yeah makes sense, what they did I mean, not them ditching backstabbing because yeah that would be silly.

To some extent the Rogue moving round for the backstab was one of the more obvious 'shuffle' moments in DAO, like you said in the 'example' the responsive way would be the tumbling method but there isn't a way I could see them doing that without potential pathing issues.

Bring on the theatrics... all it needs is Hawke yelling
"Now you see me..."
*tosses smokebomb to floor vanishing from sight in the process to then appear behind target*
"Now you don't!"
*Backstabs enemy*

[Ziggeh]

Beaner28 wrote...

So it is just like Flicker in Awakening then? But maybe not an AoE this time.

Aye, pretty much exactly, they're moving a bit faster this time, but then the whole thing is.

[PsychoBlonde]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Meh, Tiax ain't one of the knee-jerk incoherent "haters." Cut him some slack.

Well.. I guess I should relax as well. People are entitled to their opinions, especially if they had high expectations for a game. Plus I'm kinda new to the forums so I don't really know who's a consitant "hater" or not.

It's not the "high" expectations that are the problem, it's the "specific" expectations.  Why anyone should expect Bioware to make exactly the same game all over again is beyond me.  They never repeat themselves.  Every new game they make is significantly different from what came before.

I'm just tired of the "blah de blah blah makes me want to puke" complaint I see all the time.  I mean, really?  I don't need to know about your problems with bulimia.  Come up with a civilized way to express your opinion.

[Big Blue Car]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Bring on the theatrics... all it needs is Hawke yelling
"Now you see me..."
*tosses smokebomb to floor vanishing from sight in the process to then appear behind target*
"Now you don't!"
*Backstabs enemy*

See that right there would be a hundred times better than the teleporting that we've seen.

[Eclipse_9990]

Big Blue Car wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What would you replace agile melee rogues with, then? And I ask because I genuinely expect an answer, this isn't a rhetorical question meant to dismiss your point.

Well the obvious would be adaptive animations to show the model physically move into place. Or else for the rogue to have acrobatic attacks which don't involve teleporting; sliding under legs, flipping over enemies or just smart positional play to create backstab opportunities.

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Car.. If you guys want a 100% realistic unadulteraited fantasy rpg. I suggest you go larping in the woods because I guarantee thats the only way you'll get what you want. 

Yeah my bad we are wrong to have semi-negative opinions. We don't want 100% realism, we just want our games to at least vaguely follow the physical laws of the universe we all know and love.

PS obviously magic doesn't apply, it's a literary conceit, and if the devs say that the rogue teleporting is actually magic I will actually stop complaining about it.

Alright fine I have to admit I got carried away there. But seriously though isn't it already confirmed that the rogue isnt "teleporting" persay? But stealthing and backstabbing behind the enemy, and that the action is a skill and not automatic. Alright? I'm done arguing about this.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Dave of Canada]

I have just a little bit of programming experience, so I might be wrong about this but...

It's a little difficult, you'd have to account for positioning and the enemy in movement while making sure everything works with it. Dragon Age is run by numbers in the backround, you couldn't effectively do it unless there was quite a few more changes or that it would look unrealistic. This "teleport" works, as it fixes having to deal with animations and positioning / movement.

Like rolling behind a Dragon would probably not work as well as say... rolling behind a templar, then you'd have to deal with that too. A "teleport" immediately resolves both. It saves animation time, saves from dealing with potential problems (what if Hawke rolls into a wall? What if Hawke rolls into... ect) and saves from having to make it work with every enemy in the game / the additional coding.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:28 .

[Beaner28]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

So it is just like Flicker in Awakening then? But maybe not an AoE this time.

Aye, pretty much exactly, they're moving a bit faster this time, but then the whole thing is.

It better have at least a 60 second cooldown.

[Beaner28]

Dave will you have my babies?

[slimgrin]

-I like faster combat but the rouge animations are too abbreviated. They don't flow and seem to lack a sense of momentum. I now see where some think it comes across as cartoony. It does.

-Really like the vo's we heard, especially Hawke's.

-Still looks like an early build judging from graphics and lip syncing.

-ME2 streamlined. DA2 will shave off the edges.

-Dragon is cool.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:45 .

[Eclipse_9990]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Meh, Tiax ain't one of the knee-jerk incoherent "haters." Cut him some slack.

Well.. I guess I should relax as well. People are entitled to their opinions, especially if they had high expectations for a game. Plus I'm kinda new to the forums so I don't really know who's a consitant "hater" or not.

It's not the "high" expectations that are the problem, it's the "specific" expectations.  Why anyone should expect Bioware to make exactly the same game all over again is beyond me.  They never repeat themselves.  Every new game they make is significantly different from what came before.

I'm just tired of the "blah de blah blah makes me want to puke" complaint I see all the time.  I mean, really?  I don't need to know about your problems with bulimia.  Come up with a civilized way to express your opinion.

Well humans are generally pretty selfish from an early age we usually believe we are "entitled" to something or other. But for some people to go as far as to say "This game doesn't have so, and so this game is horse ****" is a bit much(Note: I'm not saying that anyone in this thread has said that I'm just getting my point across).

[Dave of Canada]

Beaner28 wrote...

Dave will you have my babies?

Sorry, not hungry.

[lv12medic]

filaminstrel wrote...

I know people love to tear apart "How hard could it be?" questions, but would it really be that hard to program it so that, if an enemy is pre-occupied with someone else, and if that enemy's flank is unoccupied, then move there and attack? They seem to be trying to address a difficulty in positioning rogues with this teleportation.. stuff.. which doesn't seem like it should be that difficult.

Difficult?  Probably not.  I suppose you can allow backstabs to occur on any target that isn't focused on the rogue, but then you'd be more kidney stabbing rather than backstabbing at times.  Or you go back to DA:O's system (which isn't bad per se) but that leads to sidesetp shuffle High School dance moves.  The problem is they would still just look like squishy warriors walking around and got bonuses against enemies that don't have them targeted.

[PsychoBlonde]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

To some extent the Rogue moving round for the backstab was one of the more obvious 'shuffle' moments in DAO, like you said in the 'example' the responsive way would be the tumbling method but there isn't a way I could see them doing that without potential pathing issues.

Especially since this is a party-based game and not a directly controlled game like, say, Prince of Persia.  You didn't have to worry about pathing in that game (and games like it) because you were always directly controlling your movement.  I could do without the little "bamph!" purpilish light-show thing, personally, but I don't like lots of flashing lights and even the aura effects that the mage puts up annoy the heck out of me.  Just a dark motion streak would have been perfectly fine to me, and might help with dismissing the complaints about "teleporting".  The hand is quicker than the eye and all.

Even better, you could just get an enormous opaque smoke cloud that covers the area for the fraction of a second that Hawke (or other rogue) is "invisible".  Voila.  Problem solved.

[Ziggeh]

Beaner28 wrote...

It better have at least a 60 second cooldown.

Why's that? I don't think cooldowns are supposed to be a realistic representation of exertion or anything, they're just a balancing mechanic.

Even if they were, it would be the amount of movement involved rather than the movement itself. Thematically it's been established that they can move invisibly through space, even stealth does this.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:33 .

[Beaner28]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

Dave will you have my babies?

Sorry, not hungry.

Maybe later?