789 réponses à ce sujet

[Beaner28]

BioWare should at least be happy about the anticipation for this game. Every second of that developer diary is being scrutinized like the Zapruder film.

Modifié par Beaner28, 09 décembre 2010 - 01:39 .

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Will this dialogue remain neutral amongst all Hawkes or change depending on tone?

Depends on the choice.

Terrible made up examples:

NPC: Will you save my kitten from that carnivorous tree?

PC Choice 1: No way.
PC Choice 2: Leave it to me.
Aggressive version: I'll handle it. Just stay out of the way.
Diplomatic version: Don't worry. I'll save your cat.
Humerous version: Why not? It's been hours since I've been attacked by a potted plant.

versus:

NPC: What will you have today, the usual?

PC Choice 1: The usual.
PC Choice 2: Nothing right now.
PC Choice 3: Pie.

In that case, since it's osort f a stretch to write different tones for, "I'll have pie." that would just be "I'll have pie." One version for all personalities.

lol. Based on this, I don't think that many people are going to go with Diplomatic Hawke. It's either gonna be agressive Hawke or Humerous. 

[upsettingshorts]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
lol. Based on this, I don't think that many people are going to go with Diplomatic Hawke. It's either gonna be agressive Hawke or Humerous. 

I thought that when I played Alpha Protocol I would be exclusively Professional or exclusively Suave, ignoring Aggressive.  That lasted about ten minutes.

[Vylan Antagonist]

I was very pleased that DA:O wasn't disparaged as much in this video. On the contrary, its excellent reception was well represented. While saying that the combat 'wasn't panned' is still a far cry from the actual significant praise that very feature earned (still memorialized on Metacritic), it's much less alienating than the previous tack of referring to the combat as 'shuffling'. And really, in that regard, I don't know what else I can expect. A different direction was taken, despite praise for the superlative tactical combat in the original. The choice was made and they had reasons for it, which we'll never see unless someone hands them off to Julian Assange. Now it's time to represent all the things in the game that are present and I'm pleased to see that being done without diminishing what came before.



I don't know that I buy the premise that 'dark fantasy' is particularly unsuitable for tactical play, nor, even if I accepted that point, if I would consider hyper-kinetic and over-the-top combat to be a better choice. It probably hinges on what a person thinks of when they consider 'Dark Fantasy'. I would probably argue that empowering the player with incredibly acrobatic moves detract from a dark, dangerous, and oppressive feel, but I do understand that more immediate combat can also increase immersion.



So far, the combat most reminds me of Dungeons and Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara, particularly the rogue. That isn't what I was expecting (or hoping for) from DA2, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I enjoyed the Capcom side scrollers, after all.

[Tsuga C]

filaminstrel wrote...

I hope you rethink that sometime before release Mary, I'd like to see an aggressive "I'll have pie."

Look for that option in the Kirkwall brothel!   

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

Dave will you have my babies?

Sorry, not hungry.

Ok now for some reason apart from LOLing that made me think of 'Jelly Babies'...

It's all UpsettingShorts fault with his earlier comment about Enchiladas now am just darn hungry I could eat anything... (well anything that people usually eat, before anyone gets any ideas of suggesting non edible things).

Back on-topic. my 'Example' I used was a combination of 'Batman Begins' (the 'theatrics' comment) and 'Kasumi Goto' (although she doesn't say the 2nd line), I did ponder doing the Minsc version of that line which is "Non shall see me, though my battlecry may give me away" but it just seemed wrong for the occasion. I haven't seen the video yet (stupid PS3 browser being so outdated) so I was just going on what I thought I'd heard someone say it was like. Obviously it isn't but hey, as others have said it is just upto us to have a slight suspension of belief and imagine that something like what I said really is happening in said incident.

Anyway it's like what Dave said earlier in his reasoning behind why they did it. Doing the roll thing could lead to players managing to go through walls and such which of course then leads to all the funny videos you see just after launch where people managed to get their characters in the most strangest places due to glitches. This teleport thing could pretty much resolve it (although it could potentially still occur I imagine).

[Dave of Canada]

filaminstrel wrote...

Well, if this is a response to what I said, I didn't necessarily mean they had to roll into position. They could simply, you know, run. Like I did all the time when controlling a rogue in DAO. Run behind enemy, stab stab stab. And it wouldn't be an ability, per se, but just an AI mechanism (like a tactic) to help NPC rogues/rogue companions position themselves to be more useful in combat. I take it that this teleport ability that we got instead is supposed to compensate for an apparent inability to have rogues do this via AI. (and to make it easier for the player to get into position I suppose, though I don't see what's so difficult about it)

Oh, making it a priority for rogues to move behind the enemy? It could be possible, I was always curious on why it was never involved in the tactics.

Though my answer was sort of targeted towards your post, it was also targetted to the people who want Hawke to roll behind the target.

[Brockololly]

Memo to BioWare:

If you want to mimic cool looking, somewhat over the top, yet hefty animations, see: Arkham Asylum.

[Dave of Canada]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

(although it could potentially still occur I imagine).

Oh of course, anything that involves movement in a player ability has a chance to do this. Even in games that are popular amongst the masses, dozens of glitches and exploits have been found thanks to little nudges of movement (grenade jumping for example) . I just see it as the lesser evil.

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...

Memo to BioWare:

If you want to mimic cool looking, somewhat over the top, yet hefty animations, see: Arkham Asylum.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw respond to this by pointing out that in that game you only have one class: Batman.

[Catsith]

 

That cartoon at the beginning looked pretty cool. Bioware, please consider some kind of Dragon Age RPG in that same style on handhelds or downloadable or something, that would be very neat and I think would do extremely well. Sprites, pre-rendered backrounds and so on..

Some quick opinions on the video:
I like the style much better than DA:O already..  characters and equipment look great, hopefully this extends to random NPCs as well. There were way too many weird looking and ugly characters in DA:O (And Mass Effect series.. seems to be something Bioware as a whole still struggle with.)

Rogue combat looks really bad.. no momentum in combat, just instant "awesomeness".. no parrying or feedback. Please work on this.

The UI looks worse than DA:O's, and where did the red and gold rings go?

And the blood splatter still looks god-awful in conversations... just utterly embarrassing.

Those comments about not wanting to have "chess-like" or "dice roll" combat make me want to punch kittens.

[Eclipse_9990]

Dave of Canada wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Well, if this is a response to what I said, I didn't necessarily mean they had to roll into position. They could simply, you know, run. Like I did all the time when controlling a rogue in DAO. Run behind enemy, stab stab stab. And it wouldn't be an ability, per se, but just an AI mechanism (like a tactic) to help NPC rogues/rogue companions position themselves to be more useful in combat. I take it that this teleport ability that we got instead is supposed to compensate for an apparent inability to have rogues do this via AI. (and to make it easier for the player to get into position I suppose, though I don't see what's so difficult about it)

Oh, making it a priority for rogues to move behind the enemy? It could be possible, I was always curious on why it was never involved in the tactics.

Though my answer was sort of targeted towards your post, it was also targetted to the people who want Hawke to roll behind the target.

I was wondering why they never added that. It was such a pain having to constantly adjust my non PC rogues to get the backstab every second.

[FedericoV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Memo to BioWare:

If you want to mimic cool looking, somewhat over the top, yet hefty animations, see: Arkham Asylum.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw respond to this by pointing out that in that game you only have one class: Batman.

Yep and btw, I seem to remember that he was responding to him.

[TheCreeper]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Memo to BioWare:

If you want to mimic cool looking, somewhat over the top, yet hefty animations, see: Arkham Asylum.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw respond to this by pointing out that in that game you only have one class: Batman.

Any game with batman as a class needs no other class.

[nightcobra]

FedericoV wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Memo to BioWare:

If you want to mimic cool looking, somewhat over the top, yet hefty animations, see: Arkham Asylum.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw respond to this by pointing out that in that game you only have one class: Batman.

Yep and btw, I seem to remember that he was responding to him.

deja-vu 

[upsettingshorts]

TheCreeper wrote...

Any game with batman as a class needs no other class.

This is 100% true, of course.

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Didn't Mike Laidlaw respond to this by pointing out that in that game you only have one class: Batman.

Still, DA2 to me at least, looks like it wants to be an action game. More than Origins anyway. And Arkham Asylum has some nice animations in it that don't look all floaty and WIZ BANG ZAP DASH like Rogue HAwke has got going on.

Really, when I bring up Arkham Asylum, I'm just bringing up the fact that the animations there have some heft and "oomph" to them while still being fast. When Batman punches someone it looks like he's actually punching someone hard. Its...dare I say, visceral. DA2? From what we've seen? Not so much.


Edit: Oh and here is some more déjà vu : I'm still waiting for some narrated PC gameplay walkthrough footage.

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 décembre 2010 - 02:10 .

[slimgrin]

Brockololly wrote...

Memo to BioWare:

If you want to mimic cool looking, somewhat over the top, yet hefty animations, see: Arkham Asylum.

Or DMC, or SF4, or God of War, or Tekken. Its like they wanted to learn from games like this, but something is missing. It's not fluid or convincing, there's no sense of gravity. Even in the games I listed above, the animation abides by certain rules. 
 

[upsettingshorts]

To me it looks like it wants to look like an action game. Which in of itself I find hard to view as a bad thing.

Whether or not they pulled it off - as Arkham Asylum did - is another matter entirely.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[Blastback]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What would you replace agile melee rogues with, then? And I ask because I genuinely expect an answer, this isn't a rhetorical question meant to dismiss your point.

Okay, don't know if this was meant for me but here goes.  With rogues, I would have them have moves that gave a single opponent a permanent debuff or disablility.  Have a hamstring move that reduces movement rate, or another strike that instead of focusing on doing damege to an enemy, does damage to their armor rendering it less usefull.  Have them hurt an opponent's arm so they have less chance of hiting and do less damage.  Find weak spots or gaps in an opponent's armor and do more damage.  Twist your weapon to hurt more.  Have the backstab move not be a reactive ability but like a bonus to hit and damage whenever an opponent isn't focusing on you.  Have stealth so it does require a charater to get out of the fray, disapear, move behind an enemy and hit for massive damage.

 

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

To me it looks like it wants to look like an action game. Which in of itself I find hard to view as a bad thing.

Whether or not they pulled it off - as Arkham Asylum did - is another matter entirely.

Thats my point- people are going to see the combat and think its an action game. But compared to the likes of game that slimgrin mentioned above, it doesn't look like a very fluid or good action game. They're bound to invite these comparisons on themselves, just as I;m sure you'll have even more previewers comparing it to ME given the dialogue wheel and such.

[tmp7704]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

We can dispute the aesthetics of it all day.  But to me when it comes down to it, I'll just be glad my warrior is attacking the target I want and the rogue is getting the backstab off without shuffling for what seems like an eternity.

Must say that never bothered me, nor felt like a "glitch" like some put it -- to me it seems quite natural that if unit is given order which requires them to move into position then they actually need time to relocate to that position.

It is very much a part of the think like the general experience -- the general doesn't have his armies capable of teleporting at moment's notice all over the battlefield and map, Instead he has to anticipate and issue orders in advance, and logistics of getting people into position as well as the time involved, the need to coordinate these movements, especially once the plans go into motion and you have to both anticipate and react... plays a considerable role in who comes out on top, and in who actually makes a good general.

By throwing this aspect out of the window and making it possible to jump instantly into action anywhere (as well as immediately execute any skills with no windup) DA2 simplifies quite a bit the whole tactical angle of the combat, imo.

Modifié par tmp7704, 09 décembre 2010 - 02:15 .

[Vylan Antagonist]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Memo to BioWare:

If you want to mimic cool looking, somewhat over the top, yet hefty animations, see: Arkham Asylum.

Didn't Mike Laidlaw respond to this by pointing out that in that game you only have one class: Batman.

Technically not true if you played the game on the PS3, which featured another class- Joker, with his own set of animations.

Not that the number of class in a game really matters when suggesting it as a positive influence.