151 réponses à ce sujet

[thegreateski]

Maconbar wrote...

I would say that it's more biege than grey.

I don't think that the "Biege Wardens" would fly with marketing.

[Monica83]

Mh for me dragon age its only a high fantasy heroic game... The witcher is a dark fantasy... Dark fantasy don't means only cover the mud with blood and gore

[Soul Reaver]

DarthCaine wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

I would say that it's more biege than grey.

Biege fantasy!

What's next? White fantasy?

[Darth Hawke]

Soul Reaver wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

I would say that it's more biege than grey.

Biege fantasy!

What's next? White fantasy?

That would be racist

[lv12medic]

Pfft, you people and your visible EM spectum descriptions. I want my ULF and Gamma fantasy!

[Tsuga C]

n2nw wrote...
 I'm not worried about DA2. I learned my lesson.

Yeah, it seems that for all their dark 'n' gritty marketing razzle-dazzle, they never had the will to follow through and actually execute accordingly.  

For this iteration we get "push a button and something awesome happens" and this they manage to come through on.  

[thegreateski]

I'm going to call it a Ketchup Fantasy.



For the sheer amount of blood that there seems to be.

[DarthCaine]

thegreateski wrote...

I'm going to call it a Ketchup Fantasy.

The Ketchup Wardens ! 

[upsettingshorts]

It's Peter Weir fantasy. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Master and Commander and he carried around a huge jug of fake blood that he was always liberally dumping into scenes. He's one of my favorite directors, actually.

*hopes John Epler and the cinematic team are Peter Weir fans, or more accurately fans of Russell Boyd's work in M&C*

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 décembre 2010 - 10:25 .

[thegreateski]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's Peter Weir fantasy. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Master and Commander and he carried around a huge jug of fake blood that he was always liberally dumping into scenes. He's one of my favorite directors, actually.

*hopes John Epler and the cinematic team are Peter Weir fans, or more accurately fans of Russell Boyd's work in M&C*

Modifié par thegreateski, 08 décembre 2010 - 10:33 .

[n2nw]

Tsuga C wrote...

n2nw wrote...
 I'm not worried about DA2. I learned my lesson.

Yeah, it seems that for all their dark 'n' gritty marketing razzle-dazzle, they never had the will to follow through and actually execute accordingly.  

I liked it the way it was.  I wouldn't want to be depressed (or creeped out) the whole game. 

[Tsuga C]

n2nw wrote...
I liked it the way it was.  I wouldn't want to be depressed (or creeped out) the whole game. 

For the whole game?  No, I don't think too many people would appreciate that, but it could have used more bite in terms of the discrimination faced by elves, templar/Chantry/mage interactions, fear of mages (blood magic, especially) and other things of that nature.  Heck, I see darker things on the 5 o' clock news on a regular basis than were included in DA:O.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Could we please try to keep it on topic? There is nothing like grey fantasy or even stuff like beige fantasy or something, the main themes are Dark / High Fantasy.



Dragon Age:Origins was marketed as Dark Fantasy yet it most likely was High Fantasy seeing how the story turned out - especially because every single decision had a good outcome with no or close to no negative consequences thus this hardly is Dark Fantasy - your warden was the typical beloved hero.



The question is: what about Dragon Age 2? Will it get darker or will it be even more towards High Fantasy?



I, personally, believe in the latter as the game will be very streamlined and High Fantasy tends to be the more accepted kind of fantasy theme.

[Maria Caliban]

relhart wrote...

I didn't consider DAO to be dark really, I mean visually it was very washed out, and dreary, but story wise it wasn't any darker than your average Brothers Grimm story really. The only part that stands out is the city elf origin, and that was just a vague allusion to rape.

The lead up to the broodmother wasn't dark fantasy?

[Big Blue Car]

How come 'dark fantasy' writers always have such a hardon for rape?

I mean, yeah they want it to be realistic and gritty or whatever, and women, especially poor women, have been treated like **** for parts of human history.

But they never write about rampant cholera, or the dangers of pregnancy, or the generally positive influence of local religion, or that even the rich were short and ugly due to malnutrition. The only negative, realistic aspect they like is the raping.

It reflects really, really badly on the people who write this stuff. I don't care if they do get off on rape I really don't want it presented in modern media.

Modifié par Big Blue Car, 09 décembre 2010 - 12:04 .

[Fishy]

DarthCaine wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

It was certainly cynical in places, look at Ozyammar and how almost every good intentioned action could cause things to just go to put, never before have I seen helping a girl advance her education lead to a possible crusade

One dark thing doesn't make it Dark fanatasy, just like GTA isn't an RPG for having RPG elements.

In DAO your choices are black and white: there's good or evil, and there's ALWAYS a better option where everyone lives happily ever after with sunshines and rainbows. Dark Fantasy would mean that ALL of your choices result in grim bleak pessimistic outcomes.

I'll say it again if BioWare didn't market DAO as dark fantasy I'm pretty sure none of you would have said it is, just like nobody will say Fable is dark fantasy even though it has the same ammount of "dark" as DAO. It's just a marketing line

From my perspective dark fantasy seem to take itself  more seriously .. It's not a bad or good thing.It's simply different.

Modifié par Suprez30, 09 décembre 2010 - 12:06 .

[Maria Caliban]

Big Blue Car wrote...

How come 'dark fantasy' writers always have such a hardon for rape?

This is actually a excellent question. I'll also point out that non-dark fantasy will tend to use rape as a dramatic device even when they make little attempts at realism or 'grittiness.'

[Dave of Canada]

Big Blue Car wrote...

But they never write about rampant cholera

Alienage plague.

the dangers of pregnancy

Quite a few missions deal with pregnancy / children.

the generally positive influence of local religion

Pretty much 80% of DA:O had this.

that even the rich were short and ugly due to malnutrition.

I don't really get this one.

[Archereon]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

 I am kinda worried about how "dark" DA2 will actually be - "Dark Fantasy" does not mean just adding ridiculous gore effects to the game and it definitely is not having a hero who can single-handedly tear hundreds of enemies apart, that's High Fantasy like Lord of the Rings. It's quotes like "Press a button and something awesome happens!" that make me wonder how close you'll stick to a Dark Fantasy theme - Dragon Age:Origins already was very borderline Dark Fantasy a few times.

I am kinda positive that the story will be well-written again (but please, try to include a lot less plot holes!) yet there's still doubts...and the news we yet have aren't helping at all.

Thanks

This is what I'm worried about.

Dark =! Darkier and Edgier

Darker and Edgier generally means that the game, movie, or whatever tries to be genuinelly dark, and fails badly.

Dark= Generally a depressing, eerie, or harrowing atmosphere, and a story filled with such themes.

[Pugnate]

What the hell is up with the rape thing, Dragon Age, and Dark Fantasy?



I swear to god, I remember going to the old Bioware forums 8 years ago, back when DA was a twinkle in Muzyka's eye, and remember a huge debate on whether taking inspiration from R R Martin would result in DA becoming some rapefest.



To answer Big Blue's question, I agree with you that it is probably some writer fetish that manifests itself.



I remember there was a rape victim in the city elf origin story, but that was done with relevance to the story. I did have to put down a "dark fantasy" book once because of all ridiculous sadistic stuff, that seemed to have little logic for being part of the story. I think the writer's name was Terry Goodkind or something, and that was his only book I read.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Archereon wrote...


Dark= Generally a depressing, eerie, or harrowing atmosphere, and a story filled with such themes.

Exactly. And Dragon Age:Origins was not depressing or harrowing in any way. Not with the info we yet have from Dragon Age 2, it seems even less "dark". Champion of Kirkwall? Action-driven combat gameplay? More gore? Sounds just like the typical "Hero saves the world theme" to me...but I'll be the first who checks Dragon Age 2 Wiki for the whole story as soon as the game is released

So, on the "rape" issue - why is it used so much? Actually, it's a very well-working method to make the atmosphere grim. A rape not only means that an innocent, weaker being you will, for most parts, immediately pity, gets violated by an evil force, it also screws the whole concept of emancipation over and replaces it with sheer instinct-driven lust. It's a symbol for mankind's primal instincts taking over, leaving only ruins of civilization behind.

Modifié par FellowerOfOdin, 09 décembre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Maria Caliban]

DarthCaine wrote...

Dark Fantasy would mean that ALL of your choices result in grim bleak pessimistic outcomes.

Nothing so rigid. Dark fantasy is an outgrowth of sword and sorcery that began to take thematic elements from horror. It doesn't need to be grim, bleak, or pessimistic. It can be primal, bloody, and muscular. It can be noirish, lavish, and decadent. It can be melancholic and despairing.

There are some great dark fantasy novels where people get happy endings.

[Big Blue Car]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Alienage plague.

Quite a few missions deal with pregnancy / children.

Pretty much 80% of DA:O had this.

I don't really get this one.

I've played DA:O multiple times and barely remember the alienage plague and remember no 'pregnancy missions'.  Neither were in any way a big deal. I'll give you that the local Chantry dodged the 'god-is-evil-JRPG' vibe. But those were random examples, there are many more.

It's simple, just about everyone in pre-renaissance europe was a malnourished, short, ugly person. Ironically, it was especially the nobility due to relentless inbreeding. A few hours of research can tell you this. But instead of the realistic, dark, gritty truth, the kings and nobles we see in this dark, medieval fantasy are tall, strong and handsome. 

Writers can't have it both ways; when they use the dark realism idea to justify the rape but then avoid every other aspect that should also be included it shows that the rape is getting special treatment. Which implies that the rape appeals to them in a way the other aspects don't. Which is disgusting.

Modifié par Big Blue Car, 09 décembre 2010 - 12:29 .

[Dave of Canada]

Big Blue Car wrote...

I've played DA:O multiple times and barely remember the alienage plague

It was the basis of the entire slaver thing.

and remember no 'pregnancy missions'.

Off the top of my head, I remember the dwarf who gave birth to a child and was abandoned by everybody because of it.

It's simple, just about everyone in pre-renaissance europe was a malnourished, short, ugly person. Ironically, it especially the nobility due to relentless inbreeding. A few hours of research can tell you this. But instead of the realistic, dark, gritty truth the kings and nobles we see in this dark, medieval fantsy are tall, strong and handsome.

Though this is Thedas, there isn't inbreeding and such. Hell, they are healthier than usual because they have magic at their disposal and the few things magic can't cure (rotten teeth and such) are still shown.