150 réponses à ce sujet

[_six]

Oh, er, I think the confusion here may be one of units, my bad. Basically the tile must have a single square walkmesh which is 10 metres by 10 metres (ie up to 500cm away from the model source in every direction). The only real requirement is that the walkmesh be exactly that size and not feature any overlaps (unless you're deliberately being clever with it, as there a few exceptions when overlaps can actually be useful).

[Renzatic]

 So when you say no overlaps, you mean that you can't make walkmeshes per object (other than placables), right?

On that assumption, I made this...

Walk Mesh

It's divided into one mesh per tile. The only thing I'm worried about is the roof. I had to hang it over the 10m mark to get it to cover the roof. But hell, I don't even know if I need the roof in there anyway. It's not exactly like anyone's gonna be walking on it. So if it causes any problems I can just delete it no problem.

Edit: Just read this. Looks like this is actually alot simpler than I thought. Be back with a screenshot in a sec.

Okay, so if I read that right, a walkmesh should look more like this:



Man, if that's the case, I wish I read that two hours ago. Would've been a helluva lot less tedious.

Edit 2:

Okay. I have now finished up the depot. I cleaned up the textures, added in the grass, and painted the shadows on the building. Still a couple of things I don't like, like how the corners still look too sharp, and how the big door always sticks out no matter how much tweakery I do. But this is it. The depot that's going ingame. I've spent a week on it. I'm moving on to other tiles in the set.

ka-doosh

This is a fullbright shot from Max. No fancy tricks other than however Max filters the textures. It should look about like that ingame, fingers crossed.

Wow. 4 hours in front of the computer working on all this. I'm calling it a day, folks.

Modifié par Renzatic, 17 décembre 2010 - 09:10 .

[_six]

Actually, you should include a (very) rough outline of the building on the walkmesh. This is because without a 3d mesh the engine won't calculate lines of sight or projectile trajectories properly, so with your walkmesh you'll end up having arrows shooting through the building. Don't including any overhanging areas such as the edges of the roof, though - and add cutouts for any parts of the interior (like doorways) that should be walkable. Here's a fairly simple example of a working walkmesh.



http://nwn1cc.com/si...it/walkmeshxmpl

[Lord Sullivan]

To help you understand some standards here are some representations

Standard Bioware Tile measurements/placement of vertices;



and how to properly set tiles/tilegroups in the tilesetname.SET file;



That might help, if you have any questions, ask away.

Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:02 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Been away for a few days, sorry...



_six and Lord Sullivan are giving you pretty good tips here.



A couple extra notes, just so you are aware of them.



Walkmesh surface type 7 (non-walkable) IS NOT blocking to projectiles as _six mentioned. I have seen many tilesets out there where folks have incorrectly edited the wok (walkmesh) to use type 7 faces and this can cause serious issues in game. As _six mentioned, you should use a wall face, using type 2 faces for any raised, blocking objects. You don't need to get carried away with it though. IE, for a small tree/bush that can bee seen 'around' or 'shot through', a flat type 7 face will work. Fences/walls should always use a type 2 face.



As Lord Sullivan mentioned with the .set file, there are some inconsistencies with what you see in game, and how the game reads the .set file for GROUPS. Not how it reads them for the actual tiles themselves.



looking at your group, a 2x2 grouping, from the front (say standing on your tracks), your tiles should be named starting lower left, lower right, upper left, upper right as

in:

[TILE1]

Model=tctr01_w01_01

...

[TILE2]

Model=tctr01_w02_01

...

[TILE3]

Model=tctr0_w03_01

...

[Model=TILE4]

Model=tctro1_w004_01

...

etc...



Now that they are named, and actually added to the set in that order, when you create the GROUP entry, you would enter



[GROUPS]

1

[GROUP0]

Name=TrainStation

StrRef=xxxx <-- this number is used ONLY if you are attempting to map it to a .tlk file entry.

Rows=2

Columns=2

Tile0=4

Tile1=3

Tile2=2

Tile3=1





I am mentioning this because it can cause some confusion when you go to dig up a group out of a set file... say by opening an area in the toolset. When you paint that area down, the tiles would be oriented towards you, in the opposite of their entry in the groups section, ie, your Station, if painted in lower left corner of an area, would 'appear' to be entered as tile0 ->4, instead of the way that they are entered in the groups section of tiles4->1 from opposite corner.





Tileset naming conventions, while not always followed by everyone, are generally:



tcxxx_x00_00



where the tcxxx can be whatever you really want, it is generally started with a 'tc' for tileset, the xxx bit can be whatever you want, but it should be consistent. The x00 bit is a 'grouping' of tiles that are used in specific settings. Generally, in Bioware tilesets, the first couple letters 'a,b,c,d,e' are for terrains. 'f' is sort of random, and not generally used. 'g' is used for walls, and so is 'h'. 'i' and 'j' are generally streams (water streams, lava streams', and then most times groupings skip a few letters before going into actual buildings/features of a tileset. I chose 'w' above, just simply because that is generally a section of a tileset that is used for actual groups.



IE, the upper letters are more generally used for group entries, buildings and such.



In Bioware tilesets, they have two different ways of entering group information. Some, just use the straight w01 -> w04 as entered above. Sometimes, when you investigate a Bioware tileset, they alternated the columns AND the numbers, so, you might have w01, x01, w02, x02. entered in the set as x02,w02,x01,w01 order.



Gets confusing, but having it explained may help when you go to figure out what letters/tile numbers are available in a given set that you wish to add tiles to.



Anyway, questions, comments, frustrations etc, fire away. As you can see, there are many folks here that are willing to help you learn.

[Renzatic]

 So basically it'll need to look something like this...

Walkmesh Redux

...but looking at Six's example, I'm guessing I'm allowed a little more flexibility. As long as it maintains a gridlike shape, so I can define the walkpaths and materials in the .set file, I'm good, right?

Edit: Bannor Bloodfist, thanks. That helps tremendously. All the tutorials I've found only show you how to replace basic tiles, and only give you a quick rundown of the .set files. Nothing nearly as indepth as what you've given me above.

I've still got alot of questions, obviously. Mainly on how to set everything up for efficiency and ease of use. But your info gives me a great starting point to work with.

Modifié par Renzatic, 17 décembre 2010 - 08:14 .

[_six]

Renzatic wrote...

As long as it maintains a gridlike shape, so I can define the walkpaths and materials in the .set file, I'm good, right?

Well, a grid structure is good yes - that also makes it much more efficient for the engine to calculate creatures' paths across tiles. Although the template it uses as a base for pathfinding is indeed defined in the .set file. As for the materials, there are a standard set of material types that are listed both in NWMax (I forget quite where) and in the file surfacemat.2da. To set them you should apply NWMax's AuroraWalkmesh modifier to your object, then apply the relevant material ID based on these numbers. Probably the most useful are as follows...

1 - dirt: with dust cloud vfx
2 - obscuring: blocks movement as well as line of sight and projectiles
3 - grass: auto-generates 3d grass if specified in the .set file
4 - stone
5 - wood
6 - water: walkable with water splash vfx
7 - no-walk: does not block line of sight or projectile paths

The rest are, for the most part, just variations on these.

Hopefully everything isn't turning out to be information overload for ya 

Modifié par _six, 17 décembre 2010 - 09:48 .

[Renzatic]

_six wrote...

Hopefully everything isn't turning out to be information overload for ya 

Information overload? Yeah, that about halfway explains it. But I'll preservere. I'm the stoic type.

Anyway, I think I'm pretty well set up and ready to go. I managed to track down a pretty decent tileset tutorial on Bioware's site, and I've got the latest version of NWMax up and running. Other than having to find equivalent actions in NWMax to stuff that's referrenced to the scripts in the tutorial, I shouldn't have too much trouble. With luck, I'll have everything ingame by Sunday at the latest.

"With luck" being the key word here. I'll probably have another dozen questions to ask here real soon. Just...just...be patient with me. I'm a noob.

Thanks again for the help, everyone! Here I go!

[Eradrain]

Believe me when I say, I f*cked a mermaid I'm just happy that another talented modeler has found his way to NWN, and I'm sure the rest of the modding community feels the same way.  Keep your questions coming, by all means!  I doubt that you'll find a lack of helpful answers, no matter how many questions you ask.

Modifié par Eradrain, 18 décembre 2010 - 05:14 .

[Renzatic]

Eradrain wrote...

Believe me when I say, I f*cked a mermaid I'm just happy that another talented modeler has found his way to NWN, and I'm sure the rest of the modding community feels the same way.  Keep your questions coming, by all means!  I doubt that you'll find a lack of helpful answers, no matter how many questions you ask.

You f*cked a mermaid? How? I thought they were fish on the bottom.

Actually, I dunno if I want an answer to that question.  

And the helpful bit? Yup. Yall have been very accomodating, and I greatly appreciate it. As for more questions? They're coming.

...right now.

Okay, I know how to layout the tiles in the .set file, and I have a very good idea of how to do the walk mesh. For the latter, I'm guessing I lay down an Aurorabase helper on the walk mesh model, set it to walk mesh from the dropdown menu, name it the same as the tile I intend on it being attached to, and it should export as a .wok file. It seems easy in theory, but I'm going to do that later. Right now I just want the geometry ingame.

Right now, I've got my tiles in front of me. Each one has an Aurorahelper attached, all named from bottom left, bottom right, top left, top right as tcdt_a01_01 to _a02_01, ect (I set the letter as a instead of w becuase of the tutorial I'm reading, I don't want to diverge too far from it). Now that i have the helpers attached, do I export all the geometry in one big lump, or do each tile individually? Do the names in the .set file look to the aurorahelpers and not to the name of the .mdl file? If I have to export each tile individually, how do I get my depot in there? It's a single object, and spans across all the tiles. I'd have to break it up to fit it on each tile to export.

But then again, Six said I didn't have to do that. But then again, the tutorial is only showing me how to export into 2x2 group using a bunch of separated tiles. It's all confusing, and contradictory, and damn...my poor head.

I'll see if I can solve this myself while waiting for a response. And people? I swear I'll be less obnoxious with the questions once I get this ingame.

[Renzatic]

Oops. Double post.

Modifié par Renzatic, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:12 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Renzatic wrote...
<snipped for brevity>
Right now, I've got my tiles in front of me. Each one has an Aurorahelper attached, all named from bottom left, bottom right, top left, top right as tcdt_a01_01 to _a02_01, ect (I set the letter as a instead of w becuase of the tutorial I'm reading, I don't want to diverge too far from it). Now that i have the helpers attached, do I export all the geometry in one big lump, or do each tile individually? Do the names in the .set file look to the aurorahelpers and not to the name of the .mdl file? If I have to export each tile individually, how do I get my depot in there? It's a single object, and spans across all the tiles. I'd have to break it up to fit it on each tile to export.

Ok, yes, you CAN export all the mdls in a scene, just select all the mdl base objects, or even just do a CTRL-A to select everything.

Then open your NWMax General Utilities (top of nwmax menu system)  See pic

Hopefully the text shows up in that, but just in case, you must first adjust the nwmax export folder.  If you don't you will likelly not be able to find the files once exported.

Once you have everything selected, just do the browse, find the folder you wish to export to, then click the 'reset' button to re-assign the export folder.  NWMax does NOT remember this when you close out of max, it forgets, so you must reset it each time you open up 3dsmax/Gmax.

Words of warning.  By default, nwmax has sanity checks turned on, the sanity checks are there to ensure that your wok will work in game.  Most times new folks have issues a couple of times until they get a feal for how things work.  If you get a pop up window that states there are errors, allow it to continue the export anyway.  This will give you a .txt file that you can read while within max that will tell you what is wrong.

To find that text file, look under the rollouts on the right hand side: see pic

[Renzatic]

Okay, I've been at this too long. I'm calling it a night. But first...



In the tutorial I'm reading, it mentioned attaching aurorahelper to the geometry, but doesn't exactly tell you how. This'll probably explain the reasons why my .mdl files look like this when I open them with a text editor...



# Exported from NWmax v1.12.07 at 12/18/2010 3:48:34 AM

# mdl file

#

#NWmax MODEL ASCII

# model: tcdt_a01_01

filedependancy Export_Test.max

newmodel tcdt_a01_01

setsupermodel tcdt_a01_01 NULL

classification Tile

#NWmax GEOM ASCII

beginmodelgeom tcdt_a01_01

node dummy tcdt_a01_01

parent NULL

endnode

endmodelgeom tcdt_a01_01

donemodel tcdt_a01_01



Comparing it to an .mdl file ingame shows vert locations and all other kinds of details mine is lacking. Now I assumed that just selecting the geometry I intend on planting the helper on was enough. But apparently it's not.



I need to find another tutorial, because this is probably the big step I'm missing here.

[Zwerkules]

What Six told you about not having to break up your depot is right. Only the walkmeshes have to exactly fit a tile. Your whole depot could be on one of the four tiles you are making. If you want to break everything into tiles, there's a tool that will do that for your and also make all the aurorabases and main lights with the right names.

In NWmax you'll find something called the 'tile slicer' under 'general utils'. Once you opened the tile slicer, you can enter a prefix for your tiles like tcdt01 and then as a position you can enter 'a01' and variation '01'. That means that starting from the lower left corner your aurorabases and the main lights will be named tcdt01_a01_01, tcdt01_a01_02 and so on.
Before you use the tile slicer select every object except the ignore_NGone01 if there is one.
For the group dimensions you can enter 2 and 2 because you got a 2x2 group or you could press the 'guess' button and it will calculate how many rows and columns you'll need.

Oh, and save your scene before you use the tile slicer because it doesn't always work properly.
Under 'Options' check the 'create tile lights' option if you want the tile slicer to create main lights at the standard positions and heights. Also check 'create anim nodes' if you have meshes you want to animate later. They have to be linked to those anim nodes.
If your group location is not at 0,0, you can uncheck the 'Center at [0,0]' and enter the coordinates of your groups center - in theory. This never worked for me, I either get error messages or gmax even crashes when the center is not at 0,0. That might be a problem with gmax.
I always make sure the center of my group is already at 0,0.
Once you have entered the group dimensions, location and names, you can click on 'slice' and a
script will slice your group into seperate tiles.
This always worked fine for me except if the group's center wasn't at 0,0.

Of course you can always slice your tiles yourself and not use the tile slicer tool if that is easier for you.

[Edit] Looking at your previous post it seems that your objects aren't linked to the aurorabase.
          Is that tutorial you are using the Bioware tileset tutorial? I never understood what they wrote in that tutorial. It is either incomplete or misleading. There is a better tutorial than the Bioware one. I'll look for it and post the link once I found it.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 18 décembre 2010 - 09:28 .

[Renzatic]

I can see a few occasions where it'd come in handy. For now, though, I wanna follow Six's advice and keep everything as is. Where only the tiles are sliced.

My biggest problem is finding out why my geometry isn't exporting with the .mdl. For a lark, I named the helper the same as my model (export_test), and it exported with what looks like the light helpers that come along with aurorabase when I tell it to put in the usual helpers.

Maybe it's the way my scene is set up.

Check it out here, see if any of you see any weirdness that could be causing me errors.

I've tried it with one base over each tile, and one tile for the entire scene. All give me the same results. According to this, I'm doing everything as intended.

I gotta be overlooking some little detail here. Whatever it is, it's driving me up the wall.

edit: Yup. That's the exact one I'm using. It's helped a bit, but ehhh...I've got a headache.

Modifié par Renzatic, 18 décembre 2010 - 09:42 .

[Zwerkules]

Mr. X's tile tutorial can be found here: http://nwvault.ign.c...r.Detail&id=521

[Renzatic]

Saved. I'll check it out tomorrow.



Thanks.

[Michael DarkAngel]

Renzatic wrote...
My biggest problem is finding out why my geometry isn't exporting with the .mdl. For a lark, I named the helper the same as my model (export_test), and it exported with what looks like the light helpers that come along with aurorabase when I tell it to put in the usual helpers.

More than likely the reason your geometry isn't exporting;  Your geometry isn't linked to the modelbase.  The other thing I see that might cause a problem after export is the location of your modelbases.  They should be positioned at Z = 0.  If they are, and its your geometry that is below 0, you will have issues with shadow casting on the ground planes.

Select the geometry you wish to link to the modelbase, press the "Select and Link" button in the menu bar (third from the left, looks like two boxes with a chain between them), press H on the keyboard, select your modelbase from the "Select Parent" dialog window and press the "Link" button.

Now your geometry will be exported.  There have been issues when using the "Export all or Selected" option from the General Utils rollout.  I believe regarding animations.  If you do run into issues, try exporting each tile individually by selecting the modelbase and using either the "Export Model + Anim" or "Export Geom Only" buttons.

HTH


  MDA

And, Welcome to the Club

[Renzatic]

Michael DarkAngel wrote...

Informative Information

You, sir, are my hero. I will name my firstborn after you, and drink a beer in your honor...then throw back a couple more. I could use it after starting all this.

I don't have any tiles ingame yet, but I can look at the 4 bases in NWNExplorer. It's not the whole scene, and it's not complete, but it's a huge step towards.

As for getting the tiles, depot and all out at once, I can export them all to a single .mdl just fine. If I tell it to copy the .tga files, it does just that. The file size also looks appropriately large. But when I try to fire it up in NWNExplorer, it crashes me out to the desktop. Telling NWMax to export all or selected just nets me an error ding, regardless of if I have a single helper attached, or multiple for each tile.

So I've still got plenty to figure out, but at least I'm able to get single tiles prepped and ready now.

[Eradrain]

Renzatic wrote...

You f*cked a mermaid? How? I thought they were fish on the bottom.

Actually, I dunno if I want an answer to that question.  

It was a reference to an internet meme.

[Michael DarkAngel]

Okay, if you're still having issues exporting, why not start with something simple.  Follow along and we'll see what happens.

Let's start a new scene and create a flat plane.



Click on the Create tab, make sure the Geometry button is selected.  Select the Plane button under the Object Type rollout.  Expand the Keyboard Entry rollout.  Assuming your Units are setup properly set your Length and Width to 1000 and press the Create button.



Press the Zoom All Extents button to get a good view of your mesh.



Right-click on your mesh and move the mouse over Convert To: and then select Convert to Editable Mesh.  Now we'll throw a texture on the mesh.



Click on the Material Editor button to open the Material Editor dialog.



Click on the empty box next to the Diffuse color box this will open the Material.Map Browser.



Double click on Bitmap and browse to the texture of your choice.  After selecting your texture you'll see one of the Material Slots filled in with your texture.



Make sure your mesh is selected.  Click on the Assign Material button then the Show in Viewport button.  You should now see your texture being displayed in the Perspective viewport.



Now back to the Create tab, select the Helpers button.  Click on the AuroraBase button to open the Model Base Wizard dialog



Select tile from the Model Type dropdown, check Add standard helpers and Center to [0, 0, 0], name it anything you want and press OK.  Select your mesh and link it to the model base you just created.



With your mesh selected, press the Select and Link button.  Press "H" on your keyboard to open the Select Parent dialog



You can double-click on the model base or select the model base and press the Link button.  Once again select your mesh.



Click on the Modify tab.  Open the Modifier List dropdown and select Aurora Trimesh.  You have now added the Aurora Trimesh modifier to your mesh.  From the MDL Trimesh Parameters make sure Render is checked.  Select your model base.



From the MDL Base Parameters rollout, Browse to select your Export Directory.  Press either Export Model + Anim or Export Geom Only.

In your chosen export directory you should find two files, one with a .mdl extension and the other with a .wok.  MDL is your model file, WOK is the walkmesh file for the model.

Make sure your texture is in the same directory as your model files.  Open NWN Explorer and press the open button, browse to where your exported model and texture is.  Select the MDL file.



Now because my tile is a flat plane I had to adjust the camera angle in order to see it.

That is the basics of creating a tile for NWN.  There are quite a few things I did not cover like UVMapping, Walkmeshes, animations and getting it into the game itself.

First I want to make sure that the version of Max your are using with NWMax Plus is working properly to export your models, not to mention just making sure you are doing the basics properly.

HTH


  MDA

[Renzatic]

Eradrain wrote...

It was a reference to an internet meme.

Oh God. Why did you have to link me to that? I'm gonna be singing it all night now.

Michael DarkAngel wrote...

First I want to make sure that the version of Max your are using with NWMax Plus is working properly to export your models, not to mention just making sure you are doing the basics properly.

I followed your tutorial step by step, and...



There was one step I was missing during my previous attempts: the trimesh modifier. I'll add it to a more complicated tile, and see if NWNE can view it without crashing.

One quick question. With alphas, can I use a 32 bit TGA, or will the engine only see them in a 32 bit DDS? And as for the DDS files, do I have to use a specific program, or can I use a general DDS texture tool like Compressinator? 

Modifié par Renzatic, 19 décembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

TGA is fine for alpha textures, NWN version of DDS is NOT industry standard now, it is way out of date. If you intend to use dds textures, then use one of the NWN utilities to create them from your original TGA file. Use the one that Bioware provides, which is located Here

[Renzatic]

Cool deal. I've already tried that one out once already, and it's pretty simple to use. I just like using Compressinator because I have a little more control over it.

Okay, now the bad news. I tried porting in my complicated single test tile using what I learned above. Still no go. It crashes NWNE as soon as I try opening it.

I've gone through and doublechecked everything. It all seems nice and neat, but there's gotta be something else I'm missing.

Here's a shot from inside of Max, showing my modifers, and my linked nodes.

Here

Do I have to apply the trimesh modifer to every object on the scene individually, or is it a select all and fire away type deal?

[Bannor Bloodfist]

The apply to all bit can cause serious issues for you as you get more detailed/complicated in your objects. For instance, the wok/walkmesh, must be set as a walkmesh, not a trimesh. Beyond that, your helpers should not be changed from what they are currently assigned as. IE the model base should not have anything like a trimesh assigned to it.



If you have added other modifiers to the stack, say UVWmapping that has not yet been collapsedinto the stack, well, anyway, EVERYTHING in the stack gets lost//collapsed when you change the main object to a tri0mesh. Anything below that trimesh modifier is lost.



Ok, looking at your pic, I think you manually created the ignore_ngone? Just delete that object, it will be automatically created for you with proper settings when you export. The one you have in there is not correct.