150 réponses à ce sujet

[Eradrain]

I prefer the Pac-Man grass, though maybe that's just me.

[Renzatic]

Same here. Smiley about damn rocks on occasion. I think I'll throw him in as an easter egg or something.

So, last bit for the night. Redid the grass and got two trees in.

This is the grass

I wanted to make it look thick enough to be nice looking, but blend it into the ground without making it look too overwhelming. I still might make it a little taller, but it looks alright.

...and here's a nice mood shot showing off the trees

The branches come out softer in NWN than they do in Max. I'll probably sharpen them up sometime soon.

It's taken me almost 3 weeks to get all this ingame. Probably the longest I've spent on a single scene in a single project. But it's finally in. I think I now know enough to start the rest of the tileset in earnest.

But a few more questions before I start plugging away at this, and spare you all another shot of that damn depot..

From the light, I'm guessing those helpers can be placed wherever you want. They don't have to be right above the aurorabase, right?

What are the biggest groups I can make? Can I go, say, 6x6?

And lastly, why the hell does NWN and the editor sometime start up fine, and sometimes comes up sluggish as all get out? I think it's a CPU affinity problem, but setting it to use just one doesn't fix it completely. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I'll have to reset the game five times before I can play it at anything faster than 2 FPS. The only thing I've seen online about it suggested I disable compositing, and run it in XP Service Pack 2 compatibility. Which didn't do much of anything.

Modifié par Renzatic, 29 décembre 2010 - 05:35 .

[_six]

That looks pretty awesome.

As for group sizes, you can go as high as you want as far as I know. It would be safe to assume that if there is a limit it will be 16x16, 32x32 or higher. However groups larger than maybe 5x5 tend to venture into the territory of single-model areas, which is fantastic if you're working on a kickass module, giving you a lot more freedom to make everything how you want it - but not so much if you're making the tileset for other folks' usage.

Modifié par _six, 29 décembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Renzatic wrote...
<snip>
From the light, I'm guessing those helpers can be placed wherever you want. They don't have to be right above the aurorabase, right?

If you are referring to the two mainlights, then technically yes, they can be placed anywhere.  However, Bioware sort of set a standard where Mainlight 1 is set to be about 100 cm above th raised tile height, so, if your set raises a tile by 500, then your mainlight 1 would be set to 600 cm high. 

Mainlight two is typically 100 cm below that raised tile height, I think they did this to help give better edges...

anyway, they are also typically spread apart from center by about 400 cm or so.  200 east, or 200 west of center.  One each, IE ml1 would be at -200, and ml2 would be +200 from zero center. with the heights mentioned above.

If you are NOT talking about the mainlights, then you will have to clarify your question a bit more.

What are the biggest groups I can make? Can I go, say, 6x6?

6x6 is about the largest average you will find.  In fact, I think most groups are less than 5x5.  A 5x5 group, takes up a HUGE amount of space in the normal 16x16 sized areas that tend to be the practical limit on building with.  Folks can build larger areas, but it tends to cause more lag issues, and the older the pc in question, can cause crashes.

And lastly, why the hell does NWN and the editor sometime start up fine, and sometimes comes up sluggish as all get out? I think it's a CPU affinity problem, but setting it to use just one doesn't fix it completely. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I'll have to reset the game five times before I can play it at anything faster than 2 FPS. The only thing I've seen online about it suggested I disable compositing, and run it in XP Service Pack 2 compatibility. Which didn't do much of anything.

  Yeah, it can do that.  Depends on your settings, your vid card, your specific version of vid card driver, how much ram you have (although nwn really doesn't use much more than about 128 meg or so... 

THere are threads regarding adjustments that can be made to the .ini files for different things, as well as multiple threads regarding how NWN does NOT support the latest/greatest video cards/drivers etc...

[Zwerkules]

If you build anything bigger than 5x5 which also is higher poly than the standard tiles and not sliced into separate tiles yet, you'll have to adjust the 'initial heap allocation' for MaxScript, because it doesn't allocate enough memory for such a big model. At least gmax didn't.

This is also probably only necessary if you use something like the tile slicer on it which runs a MaxScript.

[Michael DarkAngel]

Zwerkules wrote...
If you build anything bigger than 5x5 which also is higher poly than the standard tiles and not sliced into separate tiles yet, you'll have to adjust the 'initial heap allocation' for MaxScript, because it doesn't allocate enough memory for such a big model. At least gmax didn't.
This is also probably only necessary if you use something like the tile slicer on it which runs a MaxScript.

That's a good point.  But I klnow Renzatic is using NWMax Plus which due to my work with The Witcher models has had the heap and stack increased considerably.


  MDA

[Renzatic]

Whew damn. Got alot to reply to.

_six Wrote...

Big groups...giving you a lot more freedom to make everything how you want it - but not so much if you're making the tileset for other folks' usage.

I do have alot of specific ideas for the tileset, but I don't want to make it so specific that no one else can use it. Right now, I'm trying to find that perfect balance between the two.

Like my exteriors will be your usual various tiles, save for a couple of scenes. The plans I have for the interiors though, they're gonna be specific per building. They'll be built as single scenes taking up multiple tiles, sorta like Infinity Engine interiors. What I'll probably do is do the layouts, add in all the details, so the whole building plops into the editor complete as a single group, but keep all the detail objects like beds, tables, chairs, ect as placables so people can design their own scenarios within them.

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

...light info

If you are NOT talking about the mainlights, then you will have to clarify your question a bit more.

Yup. That's exactly what I was talking about, and it sounds about perfect. Thanks

6x6 is about the largest average you will find.  In fact, I think most groups are less than 5x5.  A 5x5 group, takes up a HUGE amount of space in the normal 16x16 sized areas that tend to be the practical limit on building with.  Folks can build larger areas, but it tends to cause more lag issues, and the older the pc in question, can cause crashes.

I doubt I'll ever make anything as large as that. Just looking at it, a 4x4 tile seems more than big enough for most anything. Though it's nice to know how far I can branch out in case I want to do something absolutely flat out huge. Like a mountain pass, or any other detailed landscape.

Yeah, it can do that.  Depends on your settings, your vid card, your specific version of vid card driver, how much ram you have (although nwn really doesn't use much more than about 128 meg or so... 

THere are threads regarding adjustments that can be made to the .ini files for different things, as well as multiple threads regarding how NWN does NOT support the latest/greatest video cards/drivers etc...

Well, I don't have the latest and greatest graphics card or computer anymore, but it's fairly well up there. From all evidence, it looks like a multiple CPU problem. It's not so much choppy as it is sloooooow.  I need to remember where I found that program that lets you set affinity before you launch an application. It was handy.

Michael DarkAngel wrote...

That's a good point.  But I klnow Renzatic is using NWMax Plus which due to my work with The Witcher models has had the heap and stack increased considerably.

I'll probably never get a group or model so large I have to set it above what you've got in NWNMax, but assuming I do, is it fairly difficult to do?

You don't have to be specific here. This is just a general curiosity thing.

Modifié par Renzatic, 31 décembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[Michael DarkAngel]

Renzatic wrote...
I'll probably never get a group or model so large I have to set it above what you've got in NWNMax, but assuming I do, is it fairly difficult to do?

You don't have to be specific here. This is just a general curiosity thing.

The file you will be looking to change is -->> Scripts/nwmax_plus/nwmax.ms

After the credits and changelog section you'll see

if (heapSize < 500000000) then (

    heapSize = 500000000
)

if (stackLimit < 500000000) then (

    stackLimit = 500000000
    
)

You'll want to change both heapSize and stackLimit.  Because of the sizes of some of The Witcher models (over 60,000 faces in some cases) I increased both to 500 million.  The original values were 7.5 million for heapSize and 4 million for stackLimit.

So I would say, unless you get intend to go hog-wild on a tile you should have no problems importing/exporting.  I'm not even sure the game could handle any one tile with a face count that high, let alone multiple tiles.

You can use a text editor to edit the .ms files.


  MDA

Modifié par Michael DarkAngel, 31 décembre 2010 - 09:32 .

[Renzatic]

Why, thank you.

Sorry for the long wait between posts, everyone. It was an unusually warm New Years weekend, so I got busy funnin things up with fireworks and beer. Two things that are guaranteed to make any occasion entertaining. And it being New Years, well...I couldn't resist the temptation.

MDA: So basically, you've set things up to where it's doubtful anyone will have to up the heap and stack limits. And if they do, well, it's doubtful NWN or anything but the most modern of engines will be able to run it.

But on the off chance I do have to, at least I know it's a fairly easy fix. Thanks for the help yet again.

And next up, my cliff. I want to get about 8 done, then I'll start again with the inevitable questions. I've already got at least two on deck, but I want to wait til I have a little more to show before I start asking them.

Modifié par Renzatic, 04 janvier 2011 - 06:13 .

[Renzatic]

Hey, just letting you all know I ain't gone yet. December was pretty slow for me, but January has been swamped since right after new years. I haven't been able to do nearly as much as I wanted to.

Right now, the current standing is 23 tiles modeled, and 11 tiles textured, counting the depot. Yeah, I know. It's not alot. I'm getting there, though.

Here's 6 landscape tiles for you all to oggle in the meantime. Got some texture and smoothing group issues to contend with, but it's coming together decently enough.

Modifié par Renzatic, 23 janvier 2011 - 10:23 .

[the_isolator]

Wow, love the road especially. It's a vast improvement on the traditional flat bioware standards. Excellent work, I can't wait to see this when it's finished.

[_six]

*faints*

[Eradrain]

I'm gonna need a few more screenshots, before I go into awesomesauce-withdrawal.

[Renzatic]

Sorry, Eradrain. You're gonna have to wait on your next awesomesauce fix. My next real shot isn't coming up until I have alot more to show.

I haven't done anything too exciting since I posted that last shot up. I did a couple more road pieces, redid the grass textures so it's scaled proportionally and tiles properly (something I've been meaning to fix since day 1), and did some sharpening and tidying. Nothing grand or bad just yet.

I'm also deleting those cliff tiles from the set, and starting them over from scratch. I want something more craggy, and those lumpy, 90 tri cliffs I've got now ain't cutting it. I'm upping the limit to 300-400 tris, and going to town on them.

But if you want something to tide you over in the meantime, I guess I can show you all what I'm working on at the moment: an untextured T section of the road, with the edges highlighted for educational purposes. Rad as hell.

Modifié par Renzatic, 25 janvier 2011 - 03:06 .

[Chandigar]

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

a Tile in NWN is 10 meters by 10 meters. Period. If your objects are larger in either "X" or "Y" direction then you must slice them at the 10 meter mark. Height doesn't seem to be much of an issue, but 10 meter tall buildings are very rare, even in today's world with the exception of the bigger cities. (Yes, I know, there are arguments about that, but consider the reality of your own home, or your neighbors home, again, excluding bigger cities or apartment buildings etc).

Delurking to debunk this, it keeps getting repeated... models do NOT need to be 10m x 10m. If you have a 2x2 group of tiles, you can have a single 40m x 40m model linked to say.. the upper right aurorabase but the rest of the model can hang over, its not a problem at all.

Walkmeshes, on the other hand, definitely need to be 10m x 10m and centered on the aurorabase.

All the Aztec Redux groups were built as single large models with only walkmeshes and lights in most of the other tiles.

Relurking.

[Renzatic]

Yup. I learned that while I was doing the depot. It's set up so that the bottom left corner tile has the entire building on it, with the rest being flatish ground pieces.

You still have to have a 10x10 base piece and walkmesh to snap in alongside the rest of your tiles, but you can have another model on top of that, extending well beyond the edges of the base tile.

Modifié par Renzatic, 17 février 2011 - 03:13 .

[henesua]

While I won't be using your tileset for thematic reasons in my current mod, I am greatly impressed by your work so far. Keep it up. This tileset promises to be gorgeous.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Chandigar wrote...

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

a Tile in NWN is 10 meters by 10 meters. Period. If your objects are larger in either "X" or "Y" direction then you must slice them at the 10 meter mark. Height doesn't seem to be much of an issue, but 10 meter tall buildings are very rare, even in today's world with the exception of the bigger cities. (Yes, I know, there are arguments about that, but consider the reality of your own home, or your neighbors home, again, excluding bigger cities or apartment buildings etc).

Delurking to debunk this, it keeps getting repeated... models do NOT need to be 10m x 10m. If you have a 2x2 group of tiles, you can have a single 40m x 40m model linked to say.. the upper right aurorabase but the rest of the model can hang over, its not a problem at all.

Walkmeshes, on the other hand, definitely need to be 10m x 10m and centered on the aurorabase.

All the Aztec Redux groups were built as single large models with only walkmeshes and lights in most of the other tiles.

Sorry Chandigar, you are actually making this even more confusing, most especially for new folks.

Can a visible object hang over the 10meter limit... absolutely!

Can you use it? Nope, not unless you STILL create a 10x10 walkmesh, which MUST ABSOLUTELY have it's won mdlbase and tilename etc.  (in other words, a tile)... you may choose to not have any visible objects attached, but the damn tile still MUST exist.

You can NOT have a wok(walkmesh) without having a unique mdl base (which IS the tile) associated with it.  You can not extend a working walkmesh beyond 10x10.  So, you must create that tile.  Whether you choose to attach all of your visible objects onto a single mdl base, thus extending beyond the original 10x10 is totally up to you, but it won't work in game or toolset, unless you have the 3 other empty mdls, and, if you want main tile lights etc, they each MUST be attached to each individual mdl base.  So, you still create the whole set of 10x10 tiles, but now you have to pay attention to what is attached to which mdl base etc.

Trying to teach folks how to do things incorrectly from the start, only adds to their confusion.  Once some prosptective tile artist can handle a 10x10 tile, then they may be ready to experiment with extending objects beyond that 10x10 tile.  This really comes in handy with foliage for trees along the tile(s) edges and it can come in handy with a single building that is larger than 30 feet (roughly 10 meters).  However, the game, IN GAME, has issues with this.  It defeats/breaks the visibility distance rules that the game runs with.  Think fog.  If you walk up to one of your buildings that is created as a single tile, with 3 blanks, a 2x2 group, and say it is rotated to a specific position which makes YOUR single tile still outside of fog distance, you could walk right into the wall, and never see it because the engine thinks that the building is still outside your visible range.  You can't see it, but you can't walk further forward because the wall is not visible, yet the wok is active. Turn fog off, and it is not too much of a problem, other than increased lag that is caused by everything being visible.  A 2x2 Group is probably not that big a deal, but a 2x3 or 3x3 or larger, WILL cause issues.  Default fog distance is 45 meters, which means that when you walk up to the edge of one tile, you can see that full tile, and halfway into the next one (thus reaching that tile's center location or mdl base).  So, a 2x2 group SHOULD show up unless you are approaching from one of the corners.  A 2x3 or larger group, will not show up at all, with those default setings.

[Chandigar]

Bannor Bloodfist wrote...

Sorry Chandigar, you are actually making this even more confusing, most especially for new folks.

Can a visible object hang over the 10meter limit... absolutely!

Can you use it? Nope, not unless you STILL create a 10x10 walkmesh, which MUST ABSOLUTELY have it's won mdlbase and tilename etc.  (in other words, a tile)... you may choose to not have any visible objects attached, but the damn tile still MUST exist.

You can NOT have a wok(walkmesh) without having a unique mdl base (which IS the tile) associated with it.  You can not extend a working walkmesh beyond 10x10.  So, you must create that tile.  Whether you choose to attach all of your visible objects onto a single mdl base, thus extending beyond the original 10x10 is totally up to you, but it won't work in game or toolset, unless you have the 3 other empty mdls, and, if you want main tile lights etc, they each MUST be attached to each individual mdl base.  So, you still create the whole set of 10x10 tiles, but now you have to pay attention to what is attached to which mdl base etc.

Trying to teach folks how to do things incorrectly from the start, only adds to their confusion.  Once some prosptective tile artist can handle a 10x10 tile, then they may be ready to experiment with extending objects beyond that 10x10 tile.  This really comes in handy with foliage for trees along the tile(s) edges and it can come in handy with a single building that is larger than 30 feet (roughly 10 meters).  However, the game, IN GAME, has issues with this.  It defeats/breaks the visibility distance rules that the game runs with.  Think fog.  If you walk up to one of your buildings that is created as a single tile, with 3 blanks, a 2x2 group, and say it is rotated to a specific position which makes YOUR single tile still outside of fog distance, you could walk right into the wall, and never see it because the engine thinks that the building is still outside your visible range.  You can't see it, but you can't walk further forward because the wall is not visible, yet the wok is active. Turn fog off, and it is not too much of a problem, other than increased lag that is caused by everything being visible.  A 2x2 Group is probably not that big a deal, but a 2x3 or 3x3 or larger, WILL cause issues.  Default fog distance is 45 meters, which means that when you walk up to the edge of one tile, you can see that full tile, and halfway into the next one (thus reaching that tile's center location or mdl base).  So, a 2x2 group SHOULD show up unless you are approaching from one of the corners.  A 2x3 or larger group, will not show up at all, with those default setings.

Hmmm ok that makes sense, I retract my comment then! 

BTW nice to see so many familiar names on this forum!

[Eradrain]

Necro-bump. Has Renzatic moved on to bigger and better things?

[Renzatic]

I wouldn't say better, but busier things, most definitely. Real life decided to show up, and throw a bunch of stuff to do in my lap. Since I run my own business, and all other kinds of good stuff, I haven't had time to dedicate to this as I'd like. By the time I get home, the only thing I feel like doing is sitting in front of the TV, and letting my tongue hang out the side of my mouth.

And yeah, I have been feeling guilty as hell for leaving this sitting for so long.

But, I'll tell you all what. I don't intend on giving up on this, so don't assume this is me throwing in the towel quite yet, but everything I've done so far isn't doing anyone a bit of good languishing on my harddrive. If anyone wants to play with what I've made, or even add it into your own tileset, send me a PM, and I'll link you to my Dropbox account with all my textures, raw PSD files, and models in it. If you end up using something, then all I'll request is you putting my name in a readme file somewhere.

Just one caveat: I ask that you hit me up only if you're fairly serious about modeling. I don't want a ton of people on my dropbox account. Oh, and don't expect to be impressed with my organizational skills. As far as that goes, all I can say is good luck.

So...PM me if you're interested.

Modifié par Renzatic, 11 mai 2011 - 04:45 .

[Renzatic]

I think I've kept you all waiting long enough. I hope you all haven't been holding your breath, cuz my pace? It be glacial.

I've had plans to do this church for..gaww...5 months now. Finally got around to starting it about 2 weeks ago. I think by this point you could all call me a procrastinator. And the why as to my procrastination is probably because (this is my deep, dirty, secret) I suck at doing trees. Foliage and grass I'm alright at. They're fairly easy to do. But I've never been able to make a low poly tree that I'm 100% happy with. Even with me knowing this quite well, for some reason or another, I thought it'd be a grand idea to try making a forest tileset in a low poly engine.

That first tree? I almost call it a fluke. These trees below? Almost 3 days of on and off scraps and redos. I'm figuring out that doing full bodied, bare-in-winter trees is even harder to do than regular trees. Specially when you've got a budget of so many polygons. I've gotten to the point where I'm starting to go more stylized rather than realistic just so I'll have enough headroom to make my forest nice and foresty. The end result is what you see here...

The Church.

Trees are 550 polys each. The church 1145.

The reason why I have it as an in editor shot is because, A. cropping is hard, B. it looks more impressive there, and C. I've still got alot of little details that need doing, and don't want to draw attention to what's missing.

Once I get a collection of trees and bushes done, the rest of the tileset will fall right into place. It's just doing those damn trees that's been the big holdup.

Modifié par Renzatic, 31 mai 2011 - 07:17 .

[Eradrain]

Awesome. I love how that one bit of roofing is peeling off. Fantastic tileset, keep up the remarkable work!

[Zwerkules]

Renzatic wrote...

But, I'll tell you all what. I don't intend on giving up on this, so don't assume this is me throwing in the towel quite yet, but everything I've done so far isn't doing anyone a bit of good languishing on my harddrive. If anyone wants to play with what I've made, or even add it into your own tileset, send me a PM, and I'll link you to my Dropbox account with all my textures, raw PSD files, and models in it. If you end up using something, then all I'll request is you putting my name in a readme file somewhere.

Just one caveat: I ask that you hit me up only if you're fairly serious about modeling. I don't want a ton of people on my dropbox account. Oh, and don't expect to be impressed with my organizational skills. As far as that goes, all I can say is good luck.

So...PM me if you're interested.

Did anybody ask Renzatic for those files? In another thread he said he abandoned his tileset. It would be a pity if those trees would never be used. Even if the tileset is incomplete, the trees could still be used as placeables.