29 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

First of all, I apologize if this has been covered before. The search function did not seem to give anything of relevance.

I've noticed that ME2, while it has a great combat system, lacks a critical aspect that is present in many shooters today. As you do know, bullet penetration is hitting two birds with one stone. I can't count how many times I've lined up a shot with my Widow only to end up getting a single kill, where in reality it should be more than that. It feels wrong because I've done my best to line up the perfect the shot; I have earned the kill -- there is no reason for the other enemy to still be standing. It would have made things a lot easier had it been possible to take out more than one enemy with a single sniper shot.

What do you all think? Surely a weapon as insanely powerful as the Widow would have zero problems going through multiple fleshy bodies at once. I'd honestly love to see this implemented in ME3 along with the new combat options.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 09 décembre 2010 - 06:49 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

That would make sense if it were the case. I know they're technically not "bullets".

[Praetor Knight]

I know what you mean, but the ME ballistics work slightly differently that contemporary ballistics.

The idea with ME bullets is that they are intended to flatten to increase damage done on target, similar to dumdum rounds or hollow point, because they travel at such a high velocity.

For example a 9mm pistol round can go clean through you and a .40 cal pistol round can bounce off of a leather jacket, based on their powder charge and shape.

As for the Widow it should operate more like a .50 cal berrett, capable of some gnarly things, but that would push the games rating up.

[Irzhen]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

 No, because Penetration always makes me laugh when I read it. (immature)

But seriously, it sounds like a good idea to me, and it would be helpful, although I think the codex says something about when rounds hit that they...squash? Or flatten or something? I could be mistaken, but if I remember correctly it sounds like the bullets would always stop after hitting one person, no matter how strong the gun you blew it out of was. Anyone got any clarification on this^ ?

It is correct.
"The slug is designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy it transfers to the target. If this were not the case, it would simply punch a hole right through, doing minimal damage." From the Mass Accelerators codex entry. So it wouldn't make sense to go through the target, they were design to do the exact opposite.

[Fiery Phoenix]

So, what's the bottom line? This can't be added? At least they could make it exclusive to certain weapons, similar to the laser sight with the Phalanx.

[Fiery Phoenix]

They don't actually go through targets, though, Eli. I've tried both; they only seemed to increase damage.

[Praetor Knight]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

So, what's the bottom line? This can't be added? At least they could make it exclusive to certain weapons, similar to the laser sight with the Phalanx.

The Widow is Anti-Materiel, so it should have more penetrating power, but there are on-board computers that provide smart-targeting so only enough of the shaped metal is sheared to reach the target anyway.

[Irzhen]

 Techinally, I don't have any ideia if it can be done, from a lore pov, it wouldn't make any sense. The bullets are cut from a block of metal and the size is minimal, so they are made to shatter on impact, otherwise they would make a little tiny hole on the body and just pass through it. That wouldn't seriosly hurt anyone, much less kill. So you would stop killing one target with one bullet, to hit multiple targets with one bullet, but not killing anyone. That's what I understood from the codex and physics from the countless unlimited ammo threads going around here.

[Praetor Knight]

Check out this paragraph

from the wiki entry

The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 09 décembre 2010 - 07:12 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Check out this paragraph

from the wiki entry

The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

I guess that makes sense...

[Praetor Knight]

Irzhen wrote...

 Techinally, I don't have any ideia if it can be done, from a lore pov, it wouldn't make any sense. The bullets are cut from a block of metal and the size is minimal, so they are made to shatter on impact, otherwise they would make a little tiny hole on the body and just pass through it. That wouldn't seriosly hurt anyone, much less kill. So you would stop killing one target with one bullet, to hit multiple targets with one bullet, but not killing anyone. That's what I understood from the codex and physics from the countless unlimited ammo threads going around here.

Right, against personnel the key is stopping power.

So far the ME universe has not really presented a scenario where penetrating cover or materiel has been necesary (battles would be very different if it was the case though), would be cool for ME3 though.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 09 décembre 2010 - 07:18 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

They could make a weapon specifically for this. Like a special rifle of some sort.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I agree. Would be brilliant for the powerful weapons like the Mantis, Widow, Revenant and Claymore.

[Praetor Knight]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

They could make a weapon specifically for this. Like a special rifle of some sort.

I guess we already have the Widow, just would have to modify the in-game mechanic to make it more unique.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Yup, exactly.

[Praetor Knight]

So then the ammo powers could also be made more unique (instead of just giving cc / and damage increases), so Tungsten can go through cover also for example.

More thinking out loud here though.

[Irzhen]

 Although it would make the ammo powers more fun, I would prefer to not have that. At least not without drawbacks. Like, add penetration and reduce damage by a substancial ammount, or costing more "bullets" (although I'm not sure how to implent that with the current ammo system). That would make some sense from a lore pov, or at least more sense than some of the things already implemented...

[TexasToast712]

Codex states that the slugs from a Mass Accelerator weapon are designed to squash on impact to prevent it going into oblivion and to actually put the hurt on someone. Those guns fire bullets at speeds that make our bullets look like sloths. I would approve of bullet penetration but only on the weakest of surfaces. (Glass, thin plastic, plywood if it even exists anymore)

[lazuli]

I would love to see bullet piercing as an option. It would be a further way to differentiate weapons, if Bioware wanted to add more weapon types in ME3. And I'm the type of gamer that wouldn't need a retcon or plot explanation for why the projectiles can suddenly pierce, just like I would have been content with no explanation about why I suddenly need to pick up ammo. It's gameplay, and I can appreciate that.



So, yes. This is a fantastic idea and I thoroughly endorse it.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Irzhen wrote...

 Although it would make the ammo powers more fun, I would prefer to not have that. At least not without drawbacks. Like, add penetration and reduce damage by a substancial ammount, or costing more "bullets" (although I'm not sure how to implent that with the current ammo system). That would make some sense from a lore pov, or at least more sense than some of the things already implemented...

For costing more ammo, maybe if the shot used more metal shards condensed together to form a denser bullet, but shooting it required more energy or something?

[Praetor Knight]

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Irzhen wrote...

 Although it would make the ammo powers more fun, I would prefer to not have that. At least not without drawbacks. Like, add penetration and reduce damage by a substancial ammount, or costing more "bullets" (although I'm not sure how to implent that with the current ammo system). That would make some sense from a lore pov, or at least more sense than some of the things already implemented...

For costing more ammo, maybe if the shot used more metal shards condensed together to form a denser bullet, but shooting it required more energy or something?

One way is to have more heat generated per round fired so then less shots per thermal clip.

But it's easier to do with the ME system, not sure of the best way to do that with disposable thermal clips of ME2 though. Maybe slower RoF? but that's no impact on widow. not really sure.

[lazuli]

I think I would prefer it to be specific to certain weapons as opposed to being an ammo power. Not that this would ever happen in reality, but implementing it in ME2 would be one way to bring underpowered weapons into the forefront. Applying it to the Mantis would suddenly make that gun, which is probably the best example of an underpowered gun compared to its peers, an attractive option.