276 réponses à ce sujet

[lv12medic]

Drasanil wrote...

Warehouses normaly have stronger doors than walls, because not many people would think of simply driving a car through a wall. It's the same reason most locks you can buy aren't immune to bolt cutters, most people simply don't think of walking around with a pair and opening up anything they see.

Taking a two-handed hammer to a door or locked chest should yield a result beyond simply having your non-rogue PC starring at it dumbly. 

Fair enough.  I was really stretching my examples.  But think of this, you start chopping on a locked chest and smash it open to find an elfroot.  That's a lot of exertion for something you can just pick off a plant or buy for a few copper pieces. 

Of course that leads to the whole argument of having useful things in locked containers...

[bill4747bill]

Chris Priestly wrote...

No, no bash. If you want into locked chests, play a rogue.

Being forced to use a rogue is not so terrible in a party of four; with three classes in the game.

I think I played  a rogue warden in DAO about half the time just to avoid the irritation of leaving chests behind.

Even more so than Bash....how can a MAGE not be able to get past a lock?

The rogues need something to make them special, I suppose.

Modifié par bill4747bill, 09 décembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Drasanil]

n2nw wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

No, no bash. If you want into locked chests, play a rogue.

Why? Putting in a lockbash mechanism really can't be all that hard? Besides a good class shouldn't relly on such a cheap gimmick to make it worth using.

I'm guessing it's not the difficulty in putting it in, but more along the lines of what Liana suggested.  We might not agree on everything, but I can see her point.  I'll just tick a little.

I see Lianna's point, however bashing vs picking locks shouldn't be an issue if the items in the chest were actually worth it the investment of skill points in picking. They could also give lock-picking skills another applications by say rolling them into trap making that way it doesn't feel like you're wasting points on a gimmick.

[Lord Gremlin]

Chris Priestly wrote...

No, no bash. If you want into locked chests, play a rogue.

This post made me facepalm in real life. Why would you make something so basic rogue exclusive? It always slightly ruined my experience in DAO, and it's sad to know that sequel won't improve that.

[upsettingshorts]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

This post made me facepalm in real life. Why would you make something so basic rogue exclusive? It always slightly ruined my experience in DAO, and it's sad to know that sequel won't improve that.

You mean something as basic as say, Taunt? 

No really, I'm totally serious about the whole "when you really think about it class systems are pretty arbitrary and stupid" thing.  In Dragon Age and Mass Effect the only ones that would make sense to me are mage or not-mage and biotic or not-biotic.  And then that would just be a starting point.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 07:30 .

[n2nw]

Drasanil wrote...
I see Lianna's point, however bashing vs picking locks shouldn't be an issue if the items in the chest were actually worth it the investment of skill points in picking. They could also give lock-picking skills another applications by say rolling them into trap making that way it doesn't feel like you're wasting points on a gimmick.

I've wondered about the trapped chests/doors myself.  I think that would be a *great* reason to go for lockpick v. bash, not to mention it ups the advantages to the rogue.  And I would be all for trapped items.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

The "rogue" can teleport, who needs to pick locks?

Once you've mastered total spatial control of your body a door or lock isn't going to stop you.

[Drasanil]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

This post made me facepalm in real life. Why would you make something so basic rogue exclusive? It always slightly ruined my experience in DAO, and it's sad to know that sequel won't improve that.

You mean something as basic as say, Taunt? 

No really, I'm totally serious about the whole "when you really think about it class systems are pretty arbitrary and stupid" thing. 

I agree with you, the only exception I can see to it would be mages or something similar where it's an inborn talent (like in the DA universe) as opposed to a skill you pick up. Skills and stats should determine your abilities not some arbitrary class, hell you can even put in penalties like: "Yes, picking while wearing plate gauntlets is hard!"

[n2nw]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

The "rogue" can teleport, who needs to pick locks?
Once you've mastered total spatial control of your body a door or lock isn't going to stop you.

I giggled.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Chris Priestly wrote...

No, no bash. If you want into locked chests, play a rogue.

Eh, that's kind of unrealistic though, don't yah think? I mean, the guy can slice Ogres in half or even incenerate them completely with a fireball, but can't bash open a mere wooden box? At very least, you'd think he'd be able to pick the box up himself, haul it off to Kirkvall and have somewhere there open it for him.

Must be made of some pretty indestructable material. It's amazing that you couldn't have simply brought Wade a random treasure box and had him craft your armor out of that. Would've been bloody invincible.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 09 décembre 2010 - 07:35 .

[Snoteye]

The problem isn't that we can't bash chests but that there are locked chests in the first place.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Or you know, do away with archaic, restrictive, and arbitrary class systems entirely.

Absolutely not. Everyone knows that our career is set in stone at the moment of our birth. It is destiny that some will grow up to be really hardy folk with a flair for close-quarters combat and others will be highly intelligent tricksters with a predilection for backstabbing people and picking locks.

/Lampshaded somewhat by DA magic not being an acquired skill.

[TheCreeper]

what if non rogues had access to some lock picking tool (a bomb that sraps on to the chest or something) Make them one use and run the minor risk of destorying something in the chest.

[Drasanil]

Snoteye wrote...
/Lampshaded somewhat by DA magic not being an acquired skill.

Given the context however that makes sense, magic seems to be genetic just like your race. If any two-copper peasant could learn magic the rammifications on DA backround and history would be pretty big.

[upsettingshorts]

No, the answer to the "why must rogues be the only lockpickers" problem this time actually is to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

filaminstrel wrote...

If we had a classless system, I would hope the PC would always just so happen to have magic potential, in a world where that sort of thing is determined by birth. Or a dwarf PC would have more significant benefits to offset that.

Make it a toggle upon creation - and not of the kitten through windows kind - that you are either magic/biotic or not.  That has bonuses (obviously) and some penalties, but beyond that it doesn't change anything other than enable the potential to use certain abilities. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 07:43 .

[mr_luga]

Chris Priestly wrote...

No, no bash. If you want into locked chests, play a rogue.

Seems silly to me to have that be the ONLY way, it could be the best/effective/most gain way of getting things from locked things, but only way? Really annoying >.<

[Dudalizer]

Just wait for a lock bash mod like the one for DAO. That is assuming that they release a toolset though.

[n2nw]

filaminstrel wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
Must be made of some pretty indestructable material. It's amazing that you couldn't have simply brought Wade a random treasure box and had him craft your armor out of that. Would've been bloody invincible.

Treasurebox armor, I want it.

Me too!  LOL  It sounds great, too.  "Wait, Sir Knight!  Let me just go get my Treasurebox.......armor, that is...." 

[n2nw]

Dudalizer wrote...
Just wait for a lock bash mod like the one for DAO. That is assuming that they release a toolset though.

Has then been any discussion about a toolset for DA2? 

[bill4747bill]

If I was so bold as to read the minds of the game developers....Lockpicking is Rogue Only for class balance and class flavor. Not about realism at all.

[Snoteye]

n2nw wrote...

Has then been any discussion about a toolset for DA2?

No separate toolset, remote chance of a patch to DA:O toolset sometime after release.

[TheCreeper]

n2nw wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
Must be made of some pretty indestructable material. It's amazing that you couldn't have simply brought Wade a random treasure box and had him craft your armor out of that. Would've been bloody invincible.

Treasurebox armor, I want it.

Me too!  LOL  It sounds great, too.  "Wait, Sir Knight!  Let me just go get my Treasurebox.......armor, that is...." 

You just know that there is going to be a DA2 DLC with treasure box armor as type of armor material.

[freche]

Chris Priestly wrote...

No, no bash. If you want into locked chests, play a rogue.

Is there any reason why a person with a big two handed weapon can't smash a wooden chest ? I would understand that a steel chest wouldn't be bashable (or maybe with a big club and great risk of destroying anything inside it).

If I lived in Ferelden I would have made me an "locked chest armor" since no one can destroy them it should be quite safe wearing such thing, gotta figure out a good place for the lock tho.

[n2nw]

Snoteye wrote...

n2nw wrote...
Has then been any discussion about a toolset for DA2?

No separate toolset, remote chance of a patch to DA:O toolset sometime after release.

Thanks, Snot!  Bummer.  The DAO toolset is awesomeness.  Sure hope they give a patch.

TheCreeper wrote...
You just know that there is going to be a DA2 DLC with treasure box armor as type of armor material.

*crosses fingers*