276 réponses à ce sujet

[Snoteye]

freche wrote...

Is there any reason why a person with a big two handed weapon can't smash a wooden chest ? I would understand that a steel chest wouldn't be bashable (or maybe with a big club and great risk of destroying anything inside it).

The implied objection would be more justified if we could, say, jump over said chest. It's a matter of balance, not realism, and Liana is right that letting non-rogues bash open chests would devalue lockpicking considerably.

[Wulfram]

Snoteye wrote...
]The implied objection would be more justified if we could, say, jump over said chest. It's a matter of balance, not realism, and Liana is right that letting non-rogues bash open chests would devalue lockpicking considerably.

Why is devaluing lockpicking a bad thing?

[Drasanil]

Snoteye wrote...

freche wrote...

Is there any reason why a person with a big two handed weapon can't smash a wooden chest ? I would understand that a steel chest wouldn't be bashable (or maybe with a big club and great risk of destroying anything inside it).

The implied objection would be more justified if we could, say, jump over said chest. It's a matter of balance, not realism, and Liana is right that letting non-rogues bash open chests would devalue lockpicking considerably.

Only because most of the loot isn't worth getting in the first place. If chests had more valuable items it would actually be worth balancing the chance of destroying an item when bashing a chest open and spending a few points to get a lock-picking rogue.

[Ryzaki]

Exactly rogues already have unique weapon skills and the like. And they'll have lockpicking. There's nothing wrong with being able to bash locks.



Regardless since I'm getting DA2 for PC I'll wait for the inevitable lockbashing mod.

[TheCreeper]

Wulfram wrote...

Snoteye wrote...
]The implied objection would be more justified if we could, say, jump over said chest. It's a matter of balance, not realism, and Liana is right that letting non-rogues bash open chests would devalue lockpicking considerably.

Why is devaluing lockpicking a bad thing?

Yeah I don't get that, Rogues already have ninja moves in DA2 and if they carry over from DA:O, the poisons, coatings, and bombs, what's wrong with other people having the locking skill or something along the lines of it?

[Drasanil]

Yeah it's pretty funny you can freeze-shatter enemies with your mage, but he/she can't simply freeze the locking mechanism, or even a door in certain cases, and crack it open.

[Aldandil]

What is the point of having locked chests if anyone can open them?



In a worst case scenario we'll end up like NWN where all classes could get chests open somehow, though none of them needed to use the lockpicking skill. The result was pure drudgery.

[Ziggeh]

Wulfram wrote...
Why is devaluing lockpicking a bad thing?

It removes a consequence from your decision, and presumably it's a part of overall balance as it's assumed you're making another decision when picking party members.

[upsettingshorts]

I want a dexterity tank rogue who can Taunt, too.

[Crimson Invictus]

Then why can't a rogue generate agro with a taunt and why can't a mage use a shield as well as a staff.

DA is a party based game, you want to open locks you take a rogue. If you don't want to take a rogue you don't open locks. It is a remarkably simple concept.

TheCreeper wrote...
the poisons, coatings, and bombs,

Which anybody could use, and, in the case of the bombs, were pointless anyway.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I want a dexterity tank rogue who can Taunt, too.

Why not throw in healing and crowd control? And a pony.

[Wulfram]

Aldandil wrote...

What is the point of having locked chests if anyone can open them?

Rogues should still be the only people who can open them covertly.  If you want to steal stuff from non hostiles - and keep them non-hostile - they'd be your only option.

 And yes, less locked chests would be nice

edit:  I don't want taunt to exist at all, but that's a different topic

Modifié par Wulfram, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[n2nw]

Drasanil wrote...

Snoteye wrote...

freche wrote...
Is there any reason why a person with a big two handed weapon can't smash a wooden chest ? I would understand that a steel chest wouldn't be bashable (or maybe with a big club and great risk of destroying anything inside it).

The implied objection would be more justified if we could, say, jump over said chest. It's a matter of balance, not realism, and Liana is right that letting non-rogues bash open chests would devalue lockpicking considerably.

Only because most of the loot isn't worth getting in the first place. If chests had more valuable items it would actually be worth balancing the chance of destroying an item when bashing a chest open and spending a few points to get a lock-picking rogue.

I think this is a great solution.  Destroying an elfroot is no big deal, but the risk of losing something unique or very valuable would give you cause to pause and get your rogue on.

I also think that adding the chance of having a trap that may blow up in your face is another reason to consider the lockpicking/trap detecting rogue.  You can keep some balance and still be a little more realistic.

[Crimson Invictus]

ziggehunderslash wrote...
And a pony.

Now don't go mad.

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I want a dexterity tank rogue who can Taunt, too.

Honestly a lot of the warrior/rogue exclusive skills made no sense to me. What's to stop a warrior from kicking someone in the groin? And what's stopping a rogue from making fun of their opponent? 

The only exclusive skills that made any sense were the mage only ones.

Nothing should stop anyone from equipping any weapon/armor.

Though how effective they are with it should be determined by skills and stats not class.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:08 .

[upsettingshorts]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Why not throw in healing and crowd control? And a pony.

Sounds great.  Lets open this up to more ideas!

[Snoteye]

Wulfram wrote...

Why is devaluing lockpicking a bad thing?

That's an interesting question. The problem is not with devaluing lockpicking but a class-defining skill. That, in turn, is only a problem because lockpicking is a class-defining skill. Lockpicking needs to be balanced because it is in the game.

Drasanil wrote...

Only because most of the loot isn't worth getting in the first place.

Balancing chest contents (which I agree needs to be done) is one solution to the no-bash problem. Another solution is to get rid of arbitrarily locked chests, which are only strewn about maps to balance a skill that is only in the game to justify placing arbitrarily locked chests. I struggle to think of a class that makes less sense in a CRPG than the thief (rogue).

[Wulfram]

Snoteye wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Why is devaluing lockpicking a bad thing?

That's an interesting question. The problem is not with devaluing lockpicking but a class-defining skill. That, in turn, is only a problem because lockpicking is a class-defining skill. Lockpicking needs to be balanced because it is in the game.

Why should lockpicking be a class defining skill?

[upsettingshorts]

Wulfram wrote...

Why should lockpicking be a class defining skill?

Why shouldn't it?  Class systems are inherently arbitrary.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Ziggeh]

All aboard the "In Defence Of Realism In Fiction" train, terminating at "Personal Point of Belief Suspension" station.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sounds great.  Lets open this up to more ideas!

Just why can't rogues wield the moon on a stick?

[TheCreeper]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I want a dexterity tank rogue who can Taunt, too.

Why not throw in healing and crowd control? And a pony.

Well if DA2 ever sells a billion copies we could always borrow one of the  flying golden laser shooting ponies that one of the Devs will certainly own.

[freche]

Snoteye wrote...

freche wrote...

Is there any reason why a person with a big two handed weapon can't smash a wooden chest ? I would understand that a steel chest wouldn't be bashable (or maybe with a big club and great risk of destroying anything inside it).

The implied objection would be more justified if we could, say, jump over said chest. It's a matter of balance, not realism, and Liana is right that letting non-rogues bash open chests would devalue lockpicking considerably.

Why would devalue lockpicking be such a bad thing ? Each time I run Baldurs Gate I can bash locks but mostly I pick them, in BG even mages can cast spells to pick locks. When I play DAO I install the lockbash mod but I still bring a rogue.

And how hard would it be to implement a new type of chest that have a better reason not being able to bash it, then just "no you can't". Rich people and people with connections could have these kind of chests.

Modifié par freche, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:13 .

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Why should lockpicking be a class defining skill?

Why shouldn't it? 

Because lockpicking is boring, and thus a class defined by it is also boring.

[upsettingshorts]

Wulfram wrote...
Because lockpicking is boring, and thus a class defined by it is also boring.

*hypothetical response*

Aggro management is boring, and thus a class defined by it is also boring.