276 réponses à ce sujet

[Snoteye]

Wulfram wrote...

Why should lockpicking be a class defining skill?

You'll notice I never said it should, merely observed that it is. I think the thief class shouldn't be a class, eliminating the need for lockpicking to be a class specific skill, but more than that I think classes are pointless.

freche wrote...

Why would devalue lockpicking be such a bad thing ?

I believe I have already answered that. Respond if you're still not sure of my stance.

Modifié par Snoteye, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:16 .

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
Because lockpicking is boring, and thus a class defined by it is also boring.

*hypothetical response*

Aggro management is boring, and thus a class defined by it is also boring.

Aggro management is both silly and boring and shouldn't exist at all.

[Aldandil]

Wulfram wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

What is the point of having locked chests if anyone can open them?

Rogues should still be the only people who can open them covertly.  If you want to steal stuff from non hostiles - and keep them non-hostile - they'd be your only option.

 And yes, less locked chests would be nice

edit:  I don't want taunt to exist at all, but that's a different topic

That kind of presupposes that the game will have overt and covert looting, which DA:O didn't have. Sure, it's not a bad idea to add that to the game, but that really is a different matter.

Seeing how this discussion goes, though, I'm getting the feeling that people would find it bothersome to bring a rogue to lockpick covertly too. They'd feel "forced" to bring a rogue or to come back with one later anyway.

I personally think the best way of getting around this problem is to make sure al NPC rogues can pick locks fairly well when they join you.

[Ziggeh]

Wulfram wrote...

Aggro management is both silly and boring and shouldn't exist at all.

The obvious response to this would be "Healing is both silly and boring and shouldn't exist at all" but if you remove them both from combat, you're left just wailing on things. Tactical!

[TheCreeper]

You see this won't really be an issue for me because I am going to have a Rogue companion with me at all times during the game, expect what worries is parts where you will be by yourself and the beginning, we don't know how long it will be before we meet up with Isbella or Varric and if their are any other Rogues early on.

Modifié par TheCreeper, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:21 .

[Ryzaki]

There's a good chance elf dude is a rogue.



...I hope so because neither Varric or Isabela do I plan on having in my party.

[n2nw]

TheCreeper wrote...

You see this won't really be an issue for me because I am going to have a Rogue companion with me at all times during the game, expect what worries is parts where you will be by yourself and the beginning, we don't know how long it will be before we meet up with Isbella or Varric and if their are any other Rogues early on.

This was my issue in DAO.  You could live without a mage or warrior before you met them.  But without a rogue (or being one yourself), you had to leave loot behind.  In the origins where you're left without anything, not opening those chests in Ostagar sucked.

[PsychoBlonde]

TheCreeper wrote...

You see this won't really be an issue for me because I am going to have a Rogue companion with me at all times during the game, expect what worries is parts where you will be by yourself and the beginning, we don't know how long it will be before we meet up with Isbella or Varric and if their are any other Rogues early on.

I don't think it's really an issue for anyone--it's not a dealbreaker for them to play the game, it's just that some people (me) find it really frustrating when there's stuff they can't get at, and it bugs us that we can't do anything about it, particularly when the game, by the way it's set up, denies us access to a rogue.

Those locked chests in Ostagar and the Korcari wilds I couldn't open unless I PLAYED a rogue MYSELF bugged me.  Not enough that I hated the game (goodness no!), but given the option I'd rather they either be unlocked or you had some way to get a lockpicker in that section apart from playing one yourself.  

Mages and warriors don't get any content that's *restricted to* them.  There's no Fighter's Guild that only Warriors can join, no Mage-only quests.  Why should rogues get stuff that ONLY THEY can access?

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, I really missed out on the handful of Elfroot inside them as a warrior or mage.

[n2nw]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Yeah, I really missed out on the handful of Elfroot inside them as a warrior or mage.

Every cent counts when you have nothing.

[Wulfram]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Aggro management is both silly and boring and shouldn't exist at all.

The obvious response to this would be "Healing is both silly and boring and shouldn't exist at all" but if you remove them both from combat, you're left just wailing on things. Tactical!

Healing isn't boring, and it's not silly in a fantasy game.  However, the game would likely be more tactical if neither existed.

[Snoteye]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yeah, I really missed out on the handful of Elfroot inside them as a warrior or mage.

That's not really the point, though. Rather a complete and utter failure to properly address the skill in question, a problem by no means limited to DA:O.

[upsettingshorts]

Snoteye wrote...

That's not really the point, though.

Well, to me the point is "these are all examples of the failures of the class system" not "these are good reasons why non-rogues should be able to open locks."

[Aermas]

I'd rather have Mages & Warriors have their own special skills, like move heavy object, & going into the Fade, or casting a light spell, than having them circumvent a rogue

[Snoteye]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, to me the point is "these are all examples of the failures of the class system" not "these are good reasons why non-rogues should be able to open locks."

To me, too, but as long as we're stuck with classes we need to work with them.

Modifié par Snoteye, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:33 .

[Ziggeh]

n2nw wrote...
Every cent counts when you have nothing.

Ah come on, it's got nothing to do with what's actually in there. It's because we've been taught to be compulsive about loot, simple pavlovian creatures that we are. It's pretty annoying, but I rather like that my approach was being questioned in that way. It was a consequence to my decisions and the game needs more of those rather than less.

Yes, as Psychoblonde says, there isn't really much of a balance in that respect between the classes "take me" traits, well beyond rogues being a touch less survival oriented (well, in theory), but it's not like it's a serious, long term benefit that seriously needs addressing. If there were shiny, magical items in there? Then we're talking, but I would hope that would be part of the design, bioware knows who has access at those points and can populate them accordingly (ie: parchment and elfroot all round).

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:38 .

[Crimson Invictus]

n2nw wrote...

 In the origins where you're left without anything, not opening those chests
in Ostagar sucked.

I can't get my head around this kind of thinking I must admit, there is never going to be anything worth a damn in such a low level chest so you're really missing out on nothing. If anything the chests allow them to help balance the low level issues of a rogue compared to a mage or a warrior via a couple of extra health pots or a weed to chew.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:38 .

[n2nw]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

n2nw wrote...
Every cent counts when you have nothing.

Ah come on, it's got nothing to do with what's actually in there. It's because we've been taught to be compulsive about loot, simple pavlovian creatures that we are.

I admit that it also deals with my kleptomania.

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

n2nw wrote...
 In the origins where you're left without anything, not opening those chests
in Ostagar sucked.

I can't get my head around this kind of thinking I must admit, there is never going to be anything worth a damn in such a low level chest so you're really missing out on nothing.

It's true there's not much in them (*wishes that there were*), but I still liked getting it since I had absolutely nothing as it was.

[Ziggeh]

n2nw wrote...

I admit that it also deals with my kleptomania.

You should see my motel room in fallout:NV. If it's not nailed down, I'm having it.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Snoteye wrote...

That's not really the point, though.

Well, to me the point is "these are all examples of the failures of the class system" not "these are good reasons why non-rogues should be able to open locks."

Probably the best reason is so you don't have to keep a specific person in your party no matter what. Leliana is the only lock-pick that has stats and skills suited for it. Zevran is the only other rogue, and you need to gimp his abilities to be able to accommodate lock-picking. It's annoying to have to have her in your party if you want to open chests and you're not a rogue.

[PsychoBlonde]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

n2nw wrote...
Every cent counts when you have nothing.

Ah come on, it's got nothing to do with what's actually in there.

Ayup.  I just like to be thorough.  Gotta get every companion, open every box, try every dialog option to see if I like it.  I don't like leaving unfinished stuff behind, probably because when I do this it ALWAYS turns out I missed something COOL.

[Ziggeh]

Saibh wrote...

Probably the best reason is so you don't have to keep a specific person in your party no matter what. Leliana is the only lock-pick that has stats and skills suited for it. Zevran is the only other rogue, and you need to gimp his abilities to be able to accommodate lock-picking. It's annoying to have to have her in your party if you want to open chests and you're not a rogue.

True. "You should have a rogue" is a decent mechanic, imposing some structure on your decisions, but "you have to take the french chick" is not so good. An implementation problem rather than a systemic one though.

[n2nw]

filaminstrel wrote...

Heh, or there should be chests with magic barriers that only mages can dispel and treasure-filled boulders that only warriors can crack open. With their heads, of course.

I would love to see magically locked chests and doors.

ziggehunderslash wrote...

n2nw wrote...

I admit that it also deals with my kleptomania.

You should see my motel room in fallout:NV. If it's not nailed down, I'm having it.

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Ayup. I just like to be thorough. Gotta get every companion, open every box, try every dialog option to see if I like it. I don't like leaving unfinished stuff behind, probably because when I do this it ALWAYS turns out I missed something COOL.

I feel your pain. We should start a support group. LOL

[nikki191]

lv12medic wrote...

I've always been curious about lock bashing. I mean, if someone made something that is locked, you'd think they'd make it tough enough to get beat up. Maybe if they called it lock prying or something?

Lock bashing just sounds like you have a bank vault made out of drywall with a 5-ton vault door on it. Or you go the Mythbusters route and try to use thermite to get into a safe full of money and burn all the money and contents inside to the point its useless.

I prefer picking only.

haha i can see it now going to a merchant and purchasing "ye olde thermite"

Well hopefully if lock bashing, etc isnt included in DA2 then im holding out for the ability to be modded in..

i know the original poster mentioned the lock bash mod on DA nexus, there is also a mod that allows lock picking spells as well there

Modifié par nikki191, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:52 .