175 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamin101]

kylecouch wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Here are the Illusive Man's exact words on the subject of Shepard's resurrection:

"You're unique.  Not just in ability, or in what you've experienced, but in what you represent."
"You stood for humanity at a key moment.  You're more than a soldier- you're a symbol."
"And I don't know if the Reapers understand fear, but you killed one.  They have to respect that."

Thats just it though...Shepard didn't ACTUALLY kill any reaper. The Alliance fleet/Joker did. All Shepard did was destroy a mechinized corpse. While I admit symbol's are powerful weapons (a reason I save the DA) they aren't all that important in regards to the story of ME2 since everyone just dismisses their glorious "symbol" as a complete basket case.

and yet the collectors want him and not hackett or joker...di you notice killing saren is what dropped the shields in me1

[Il Divo]

Alright, I've received some advice on this matter, so hopefully this time I won't have to ruin my posts with pages worth of random characters. Let's begin.

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

How come you never acknowledge the Cipher, beacon thing? Was that simply not important  from your perspective?

Who didn't acknowledge it? The beacon served its purpose in Mass Effect by leading Shepard to the Conduit and demonstrating for all of us why only he could do what he did. However, this isn't Mass Effect. Following the battle of the Citadel, what relevant purpose did the beacon serve besides a warning?

how did he get the close contact in the first place?

You played through it. Direct conversation with Sovereign. Shepard + two squad mates are the only ones to do this in the entire Mass Effect universe.As far as looking for a leader to combat the Reapers, someone who understands the threat is preferable than the first random marine you come across.

How did he get a chance to demonstrate his excellent combat abilities?

Torfan. Akuze. Or the Skyllian Verge. Psyche evaluations. All reasons for why Shepard is chosen as a potential candidate for the first human Spectre, of which there are only a hundred in existence. Do the math. That's not something your average marine can pull off. Not to mention everything which took place on Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos, and the Citadel. It's pretty well established that Shepard is not your common foot soldier.

How did he become the greatest hero?

Saving the galaxy from a race of sentient space ships hell bent on destruction of all life tends to score points with the press. You can also look at everything Jacob tells you about being the 'saviour of the Citadel'This all seems right in line with the type of candidate TIM would want. Who better to lead a pro-human operation than the human which the galaxy most reveres?

the Cipher made him special from a plot perspective. Only he was able to achieve that. Anyone can achieve "exceptional combat abilities" or in time "Spectre status". Those could be for another character, or seperate characters. But the one who is left with the "Cipher/Vision" characteristic is going to save the world.

Anyone could achieve the 'Cipher' from a plot perspective. All it takes to retain it is a strong mind.

What I find so utterly lacking in your criticism is how easily you seem to dismiss Shepard's reputation/status/abilities. One doesn't just hand their resume into the Spectres and walk in. As ME so poignantly tells us, "Spectres aren't made, they're born". The idea behind this creed is that the individuals capable of achieving Spectre status are so utterly rare/valuable as to be practically unique. An organization of 100 individuals. In a galaxy of how many billion/trillion? Percentages should tell you everything at this point.

do you at least see where i'm coming from? Am I not phrasing it right?

I see exactly where you're coming from. I however fail to understand why your position is a 'plot perspective' while mine is somehow irrelevant. I'm arguing all this from the plot of Mass Effect 1/2.

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 décembre 2010 - 11:45 .

[TheRevanchist]

Jamin101 wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Here are the Illusive Man's exact words on the subject of Shepard's resurrection:

"You're unique.  Not just in ability, or in what you've experienced, but in what you represent."
"You stood for humanity at a key moment.  You're more than a soldier- you're a symbol."
"And I don't know if the Reapers understand fear, but you killed one.  They have to respect that."

Thats just it though...Shepard didn't ACTUALLY kill any reaper. The Alliance fleet/Joker did. All Shepard did was destroy a mechinized corpse. While I admit symbol's are powerful weapons (a reason I save the DA) they aren't all that important in regards to the story of ME2 since everyone just dismisses their glorious "symbol" as a complete basket case.

and yet the collectors want him and not hackett or joker...di you notice killing saren is what dropped the shields in me1

Yes I noticed...that simply means he played a part in it's demise, does not mean Shepard is the one who killed it. Trust me after watching that scene about 40 times I think I know what happens. (yes 40...thats not a typo) The Reapers want Shepard because he's the main protagonist and pretty much no other reason. Because there is no way the other Reapers should even know what happend at the Citadel. Not like the Collectors were sittin there off in the distence with a camera eatin popcorn goin "Oh shizz son! Soverign got jacked UUUUPPP! oh man wait till Harbinger sees this shiz yo!"

[Phaelducan]

The Cipher? Great for ME1, it helped him find Ilos and the Conduit. Now it's irrelevant.



The Protheans are one species that got wiped out, and their time has passed. The Cipher has no real importance for ME2 and beyond. So he can think like a Prothean. Great, move along.



I swear these arguments always boil down to the same issues.

[Exile Isan]

kylecouch wrote...
Thats just it though...Shepard didn't ACTUALLY kill any reaper. The Alliance fleet/Joker did. All Shepard did was destroy a mechinized corpse. While I admit symbol's are powerful weapons (a reason I save the DA) they aren't all that important in regards to the story of ME2 since everyone just dismisses their glorious "symbol" as a complete basket case.

Yeah, actually Shepard did kill a Reaper. Sovereign's conciousness was in Saren's body ("I am Sovereign and this station is MINE!") , that's what reanimated Saren's corpse much like what Harbinger does to the Collector drones. And if you notice in the end video, after you kill Saren/Sovereign in the tower the lights on the front ship flicker out, the sheilds go down and the body lets go to the Citadel tower and only then can Joker and the fleet take it down and only because Sovereign was already dead. Joker just blew up the body.

[Il Divo]

kylecouch wrote...

Yes I noticed...that simply means he played a part in it's demise, does not mean Shepard is the one who killed it. Trust me after watching that scene about 40 times I think I know what happens. (yes 40...thats not a typo) The Reapers want Shepard because he's the main protagonist and pretty much no other reason. Because there is no way the other Reapers should even know what happend at the Citadel. Not like the Collectors were sittin there off in the distence with a camera eatin popcorn goin "Oh shizz son! Soverign got jacked UUUUPPP! oh man wait till Harbinger sees this shiz yo!"

Yes, Joker/Alliance fleet played a large role in Sovereign's demise, but I think the point boils down to Shepard orchestrating Sovereign's downfall. Yes, it is conceivable that the Reapers could hunt Joker as the one who dealt the final blow, but it was Shepard who pursued Saren across the galaxy. Without Shepard, nothing would have worked as it did.

[Evil Johnny 666]

I agree. As previously stated, the crew abduction is utterly ridiculous. Why everyone leaves the Normandy for an unspecified mission when you never get off with more than 2 squad mates? Why they leave Joker and EDI with special reaper tech? What the hell that mission could be for? They never told us and we certainly gained nothing for it, was it some kind of cruise before everyone passes on the chopping block or something? It made no sense.

But then I think ME2's story in general is pretty weak. It raises more questions than it answers, and most of the questions aren't compelling or about specific plot points, but more about how some things can not be ridiculous. And then, the game doesn't feel like the second chapter in a trilogy, it's almost entirely disconnected from ME1, hell the game ends and you feel like nothing happened. After ME1, the big threat was still there, coming. With ME2, you discover a new enemy, get a few twists and wipe them out. The reapers are still in dark space and coming as per ME1's ending. And per ME1's ending, you felt the Reaper threat was much more urgent than waiting 2 years to resurrect someone and start "investigating" human colonies disappearance. Plus, why should Shepard be more interesting in stopping these "few" human colonists from disappearing than finding a way to stop the biggest threat to all life in the galaxy, may it be human, asari, turian or whatever. In fact, after ME2 you actually feel like loosing 2 precious years to find a way to stop the reapers.

So instead, the plot makes itself obvious from the get go. You know what is at stake within a few minutes and most mysteries are solved. In fact, the very limited twists were answering things you didn't even ask yourself about rather than answering any questions you had. It's like they decided to cut the game in half because of the so numerous squad mates. Instead of taking time actually unveiling the collector mystery (which isn't really a mystery since you get to know almost the whole thing, the most important things, after the first mission) and all, TIM knows everything and most of the time you're either recruiting your squad mates (and only Mordin is essential to the story besides his superior abilities like everyone else on board) or playing the psychologist helping them with their personal problems. Don't get me wrong, those missions were quite good in general (others were repetitive and stale (both Grunt missions for example) but it detracted from the real goal. When preparing for a suicide mission, I'd think you'd try to find the most effective team possible (and equipment) so you don't get people like those on board who are not ready enough or dedicated to the cause to get sloppy during the suicide mission.

So instead of carefully hiding a "save the galaxy" plot exploring key areas in search of clues to a certain mystery, we instantly get the stakes thrown at our face without any kind of real build-up, it feels like half the game, principally the beginning, is missing. And the most cringe-worthy moments about this occur. It doesn't make me feel good or anything to be reminded how much the mission is important, that it is dangerous and people can die, that Shepard is more than a human, etc... It's weird because I thought ME1 as well as the books were well written, it feels as they were getting lazy with the game. ME2 feels more like a bridging game between two other games than an actual sequel or part of a trilogy with an expansion of the original game's story.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 11 décembre 2010 - 04:36 .

[JamieCOTC]

Terraneaux wrote...

What it comes down to is the writing team didn't want to write a story that involved 'Shepard, savior of the Citadel' as a character. So they retconned it, poorly. Bringing you back to square one. Erasing all your progress from the previous game in rallying the galaxy behind you. Because it's too much trouble to build upon the previous game like that.

THIS!

also so new players would not get cornfused.  <_<

[JamieCOTC]

Main plot of Mass Effect 2 < main plot of Star Trek V.

[TheRevanchist]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

What it comes down to is the writing team didn't want to write a story that involved 'Shepard, savior of the Citadel' as a character. So they retconned it, poorly. Bringing you back to square one. Erasing all your progress from the previous game in rallying the galaxy behind you. Because it's too much trouble to build upon the previous game like that.

THIS!

also so new players would not get cornfused.  <_<

It boils down to the freakin new people. Thats why ME3 will suffer as well, because "it has to be a stand alone game for newcomers."....you know what if your waiting for the GRAND FINALE to get into a series then gtfo because thats just disgraceful and your causeing content real fans like to be watered down just so you don't get confused. (this not directed at anyone in particular...cept the massive horde of newbys) While I understand it's needed for the highest possible sales number, I firmly believe there should be some games that can't be played unless you played those that came before. I feel ME as a whole had a massive crap dumped on it for the sake of people who had no original interest in the first game.

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

Il Divo wrote...

Alright, I've received some advice on this matter, so hopefully this time I won't have to ruin my posts with pages worth of random characters. Let's begin.

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

How come you never acknowledge the Cipher, beacon thing? Was that simply not important  from your perspective?

Who didn't acknowledge it? The beacon served its purpose in Mass Effect by leading Shepard to the Conduit and demonstrating for all of us why only he could do what he did. However, this isn't Mass Effect. Following the battle of the Citadel, what relevant purpose did the beacon serve besides a warning?

how did he get the close contact in the first place?

You played through it. Direct conversation with Sovereign. Shepard + two squad mates are the only ones to do this in the entire Mass Effect universe.As far as looking for a leader to combat the Reapers, someone who understands the threat is preferable than the first random marine you come across.

How did he get a chance to demonstrate his excellent combat abilities?

Torfan. Akuze. Or the Skyllian Verge. Psyche evaluations. All reasons for why Shepard is chosen as a potential candidate for the first human Spectre, of which there are only a hundred in existence. Do the math. That's not something your average marine can pull off. Not to mention everything which took place on Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos, and the Citadel. It's pretty well established that Shepard is not your common foot soldier.

How did he become the greatest hero?

Saving the galaxy from a race of sentient space ships hell bent on destruction of all life tends to score points with the press. You can also look at everything Jacob tells you about being the 'saviour of the Citadel'This all seems right in line with the type of candidate TIM would want. Who better to lead a pro-human operation than the human which the galaxy most reveres?

the Cipher made him special from a plot perspective. Only he was able to achieve that. Anyone can achieve "exceptional combat abilities" or in time "Spectre status". Those could be for another character, or seperate characters. But the one who is left with the "Cipher/Vision" characteristic is going to save the world.

Anyone could achieve the 'Cipher' from a plot perspective. All it takes to retain it is a strong mind.

What I find so utterly lacking in your criticism is how easily you seem to dismiss Shepard's reputation/status/abilities. One doesn't just hand their resume into the Spectres and walk in. As ME so poignantly tells us, "Spectres aren't made, they're born". The idea behind this creed is that the individuals capable of achieving Spectre status are so utterly rare/valuable as to be practically unique. An organization of 100 individuals. In a galaxy of how many billion/trillion? Percentages should tell you everything at this point.

do you at least see where i'm coming from? Am I not phrasing it right?

I see exactly where you're coming from. I however fail to understand why your position is a 'plot perspective' while mine is somehow irrelevant. I'm arguing all this from the plot of Mass Effect 1/2.

Frodo Baggins was Unique because he was the only one to resist the ring's evil so effectively, Even Aragorn, the king badd-ass of the ages is more tempted than frodo. No one else could have done it but Frodo.

The man with no name in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly was also a bad-ass, but what made him unique was the fact that the dying confederate soldier TOLD him where the gold was and only him. He was unique because of this.

Neo was unique because he was THE ONE and could bend reality. There were many good fighters in that film, but unitil he became UNIQUE IE( discovered his powers) he was as good as anyone else.

Maximus Decimus Meridius was Unique because he was the EMPORER's chosen candidate to transfer power to the senate, not because he was a general turned galdiator...

The Grey wardens are unique, because only they could kill Archdemons. The Grey wardens are actually ONE hero lolololol.


Thane was UNIQUE because he was Kolyat's father. Only he was able to stop him from killing the turian.

Luke skywalker because he was Darth vader's son!

Anakin Skywalker because he was the prophetized CHOSEN ONE

I could literally go on forever. The Key of the point is, because these people had this "unique" attribute, they were able to change the influence of the story. Only in ME2 is shepard not unique. His attributes, although exceptional, don't add to the progression of the plot. 

BEING a total badass could be something that makes him unique if its established earlier in the series. 
What was established is the (prothean/cipher). the second chapter in a series is still part of the story but the erased a part of shepard's character and characterization.

If you don't believe me, go ask your english teacher about heroic epics like I listed above.

P.S. I'm not attacking you personally, many people think as you do.

[Praetor Knight]

So there can be only one!

[TheRevanchist]

Froddo T Baggins?

[TheRevanchist]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...




Frodo Baggins was Unique because he was the only one to resist the ring's evil so effectively, Even Aragorn, the king badd-ass of the ages is more tempted than frodo. No one else could have done it but Frodo.

The man with no name in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly was also a bad-ass, but what made him unique was the fact that the dying confederate soldier TOLD him where the gold was and only him. He was unique because of this.

Neo was unique because he was THE ONE and could bend reality. There were many good fighters in that film, but unitil he became UNIQUE IE( discovered his powers) he was as good as anyone else.

Maximus Decimus Meridius was Unique because he was the EMPORER's chosen candidate to transfer power to the senate, not because he was a general turned galdiator...

The Grey wardens are unique, because only they could kill Archdemons. The Grey wardens are actually ONE hero lolololol.


Thane was UNIQUE because he was Kolyat's father. Only he was able to stop him from killing the turian.

Luke skywalker because he was Darth vader's son!

Anakin Skywalker because he was the prophetized CHOSEN ONE

I could literally go on forever. The Key of the point is, because these people had this "unique" attribute, they were able to change the influence of the story. Only in ME2 is shepard not unique. His attributes, although exceptional, don't add to the progression of the plot. 

BEING a total badass could be something that makes him unique if its established earlier in the series. 
What was established is the (prothean/cipher). the second chapter in a series is still part of the story but the erased a part of shepard's character and characterization.

If you don't believe me, go ask your english teacher about heroic epics like I listed above.

P.S. I'm not attacking you personally, many people think as you do.

Heres the thing about Froddo man...Bilbo had that ring for what...50 years? I'm pretty sure he coulda took it to mount doom and chucked in there within the first year of his possestion. The odds of him being totaly indotrinated within one year out of 50 is highly unlikely. Whos to say Hobbit's don't have a natural resistence to it's evil? hell even Sam held it for several hours while Froddo was KO'd and gave it back fairly easy and look how close they were to Mount Doom at that point.

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

kylecouch wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...




Frodo Baggins was Unique because he was the only one to resist the ring's evil so effectively, Even Aragorn, the king badd-ass of the ages is more tempted than frodo. No one else could have done it but Frodo.

The man with no name in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly was also a bad-ass, but what made him unique was the fact that the dying confederate soldier TOLD him where the gold was and only him. He was unique because of this.

Neo was unique because he was THE ONE and could bend reality. There were many good fighters in that film, but unitil he became UNIQUE IE( discovered his powers) he was as good as anyone else.

Maximus Decimus Meridius was Unique because he was the EMPORER's chosen candidate to transfer power to the senate, not because he was a general turned galdiator...

The Grey wardens are unique, because only they could kill Archdemons. The Grey wardens are actually ONE hero lolololol.


Thane was UNIQUE because he was Kolyat's father. Only he was able to stop him from killing the turian.

Luke skywalker because he was Darth vader's son!

Anakin Skywalker because he was the prophetized CHOSEN ONE

I could literally go on forever. The Key of the point is, because these people had this "unique" attribute, they were able to change the influence of the story. Only in ME2 is shepard not unique. His attributes, although exceptional, don't add to the progression of the plot. 

BEING a total badass could be something that makes him unique if its established earlier in the series. 
What was established is the (prothean/cipher). the second chapter in a series is still part of the story but the erased a part of shepard's character and characterization.

If you don't believe me, go ask your english teacher about heroic epics like I listed above.

P.S. I'm not attacking you personally, many people think as you do.

Heres the thing about Froddo man...Bilbo had that ring for what...50 years? I'm pretty sure he coulda took it to mount doom and chucked in there within the first year of his possestion. The odds of him being totaly indotrinated within one year out of 50 is highly unlikely. Whos to say Hobbit's don't have a natural resistence to it's evil? hell even Sam held it for several hours while Froddo was KO'd and gave it back fairly easy and look how close they were to Mount Doom at that point.

Tolkein's states Frodo is special.

Hobbits has a natural resistantance because they are so "innocent"

Frodo has an even higher resistance to it, even more than other hobbits. 

Frodo can resist it for the longest period of time.

Frodo is unique so that is why he's the hero of the tale...

Modifié par Yojimbo_Ltd, 11 décembre 2010 - 05:42 .

[TheRevanchist]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...




Frodo Baggins was Unique because he was the only one to resist the ring's evil so effectively, Even Aragorn, the king badd-ass of the ages is more tempted than frodo. No one else could have done it but Frodo.

The man with no name in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly was also a bad-ass, but what made him unique was the fact that the dying confederate soldier TOLD him where the gold was and only him. He was unique because of this.

Neo was unique because he was THE ONE and could bend reality. There were many good fighters in that film, but unitil he became UNIQUE IE( discovered his powers) he was as good as anyone else.

Maximus Decimus Meridius was Unique because he was the EMPORER's chosen candidate to transfer power to the senate, not because he was a general turned galdiator...

The Grey wardens are unique, because only they could kill Archdemons. The Grey wardens are actually ONE hero lolololol.


Thane was UNIQUE because he was Kolyat's father. Only he was able to stop him from killing the turian.

Luke skywalker because he was Darth vader's son!

Anakin Skywalker because he was the prophetized CHOSEN ONE

I could literally go on forever. The Key of the point is, because these people had this "unique" attribute, they were able to change the influence of the story. Only in ME2 is shepard not unique. His attributes, although exceptional, don't add to the progression of the plot. 

BEING a total badass could be something that makes him unique if its established earlier in the series. 
What was established is the (prothean/cipher). the second chapter in a series is still part of the story but the erased a part of shepard's character and characterization.

If you don't believe me, go ask your english teacher about heroic epics like I listed above.

P.S. I'm not attacking you personally, many people think as you do.

Heres the thing about Froddo man...Bilbo had that ring for what...50 years? I'm pretty sure he coulda took it to mount doom and chucked in there within the first year of his possestion. The odds of him being totaly indotrinated within one year out of 50 is highly unlikely. Whos to say Hobbit's don't have a natural resistence to it's evil? hell even Sam held it for several hours while Froddo was KO'd and gave it back fairly easy and look how close they were to Mount Doom at that point.

That's just one of my examples. Keep in mind Frodo had it for seven months. also keep in mind that all the heroes in the fellowship could have taken it but didn't. Frodo was the only one brave enough to volunteer for the task.

Ok then so what makes him more capable then any other Hobbit? why is he somehow MORE resistent? Simply because Tolkien said so? or is there a particular reason?

Modifié par kylecouch, 11 décembre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

kylecouch wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...




Frodo Baggins was Unique because he was the only one to resist the ring's evil so effectively, Even Aragorn, the king badd-ass of the ages is more tempted than frodo. No one else could have done it but Frodo.

The man with no name in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly was also a bad-ass, but what made him unique was the fact that the dying confederate soldier TOLD him where the gold was and only him. He was unique because of this.

Neo was unique because he was THE ONE and could bend reality. There were many good fighters in that film, but unitil he became UNIQUE IE( discovered his powers) he was as good as anyone else.

Maximus Decimus Meridius was Unique because he was the EMPORER's chosen candidate to transfer power to the senate, not because he was a general turned galdiator...

The Grey wardens are unique, because only they could kill Archdemons. The Grey wardens are actually ONE hero lolololol.


Thane was UNIQUE because he was Kolyat's father. Only he was able to stop him from killing the turian.

Luke skywalker because he was Darth vader's son!

Anakin Skywalker because he was the prophetized CHOSEN ONE

I could literally go on forever. The Key of the point is, because these people had this "unique" attribute, they were able to change the influence of the story. Only in ME2 is shepard not unique. His attributes, although exceptional, don't add to the progression of the plot. 

BEING a total badass could be something that makes him unique if its established earlier in the series. 
What was established is the (prothean/cipher). the second chapter in a series is still part of the story but the erased a part of shepard's character and characterization.

If you don't believe me, go ask your english teacher about heroic epics like I listed above.

P.S. I'm not attacking you personally, many people think as you do.

Heres the thing about Froddo man...Bilbo had that ring for what...50 years? I'm pretty sure he coulda took it to mount doom and chucked in there within the first year of his possestion. The odds of him being totaly indotrinated within one year out of 50 is highly unlikely. Whos to say Hobbit's don't have a natural resistence to it's evil? hell even Sam held it for several hours while Froddo was KO'd and gave it back fairly easy and look how close they were to Mount Doom at that point.

That's just one of my examples. Keep in mind Frodo had it for seven months. also keep in mind that all the heroes in the fellowship could have taken it but didn't. Frodo was the only one brave enough to volunteer for the task.

Ok then so what makes him more capable then any other Hobbit? why is he somehow MORE resistent? Simply because Tolkien said so? or is there a particular reason?

I honestly don't know. Though i'm curious as well as to "why".

All we know is that frodo was destined for this task from the moment he was born. it was his journey to make. Why becomes a debate of Science or Design. Random or Chosen? either way, frodo is what he is. Just as shepard was when he got protheanized. Why did have to be there at the right time? we don't know, maybe we will never know.

[Phaelducan]

@kylecouch Don't ask logical questions, nothing good can come of them.

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

Phaelducan wrote...

@kylecouch Don't ask logical questions, nothing good can come of them.

please contribute or don't post. I'm not attacking him. We are in talks.

[Phaelducan]

I am contributing. Kyle posted a logical question, to which the response was "I don't know... (paraphrase) but it doesn't matter since it's Tolkien."



Seriously, there is so much ME2 bashing lately that any attempt to defend anything about it is a doomed venture, particularly if the person defending it has a legitimate or logical response or inquiry.



There have been multiple responses in this thread answering the original posters point of view, and they are almost universally ignored or derided as "opinion" while ignoring the "facts." So whether you are attacking him or not (and I didn't state you were), I merely added a cautionary warning which I will repeat here.



Nothing good will come of logical questions. The debate is not open, not even close.

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

Phaelducan wrote...

I am contributing. Kyle posted a logical question, to which the response was "I don't know... (paraphrase) but it doesn't matter since it's Tolkien."

Seriously, there is so much ME2 bashing lately that any attempt to defend anything about it is a doomed venture, particularly if the person defending it has a legitimate or logical response or inquiry.

There have been multiple responses in this thread answering the original posters point of view, and they are almost universally ignored or derided as "opinion" while ignoring the "facts." So whether you are attacking him or not (and I didn't state you were), I merely added a cautionary warning which I will repeat here.

Nothing good will come of logical questions. The debate is not open, not even close.

Why was is Neo that was the chosen one?

Why was it Maximus was chosen?

Why Frodo?

Why Harry Potter?

We don't really know for any of these... They just happend to be at the right place at the right time. Why areyou arguing with me on this forum at this day, time, place, reason? It's not just Tolkien, its life!

I'm sorry noone has acknowledged your point of view. let me reread and address you if you'd like??

[Phaelducan]

You are asking for philosophical quandary about scripted events written by people for the purpose of a dramatic narrative.



You are artificially injecting ambiguity and mystery into concrete details, which I assume is fun for you (and don't get me wrong, I do stuff like that as well, at times... and it can be fun).



You don't need to ask why in a scripted narrative, and if you do, you are already questioning the framework of the writer so there is no point in validating plot issues. It's a DOA debate.

[Googlesaurus]

Frodo was not special in the sense of being the only person who could performed the task. While he lacked the desire for power, he was also tempted by fear and despair. Gandalf does tell him to think of his task as if he was destined to perform it, but it was mostly a psychological aid as Frodo was angry and felt overwhelmed by the whole ordeal. 

Regardless, I don't like this idea of "Shepard as the messiah" because it completely devalues the threat of the Reapers. Instead of being an ancient Cthulhu-like race that seems impossible to defeat, they're being turned into just another enemy for our valiant hero to crush. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 11 décembre 2010 - 06:33 .

[Praetor Knight]

Yojimbo_Ltd wrote...

Why was it Maximus was chosen?

Maximus was "command material" compared to Commodus who was an utter failure as a  leader, that is if this relating to Russell Crowe's Gladiator.

[Iakus]

Jamin101 wrote...
i dont recall booting up me2 and tim demanding a unique one of a kind human. An exceptional only human spectre who has fought reapers is a pretty good person to bring back.

Anyone else automatically questions tim/collectors/reapers. Illusive man knows shepard will believe him, knows he does whatever to succeed even breaking the law/joining cerberus/working with aliens. Knows he is one of the best fighters in the universe in any species, has natural charisma and leadership skills. One of the few people able to get different species unified in a common goal going somewhere no ship has ever returned from.

Illusive man has had shepard kil enough commandos that a normal cerberus soldier wont cut it

As has been posted earlier.  TIm describers Shepard:  "You're unique.  Not just in ability, or in what you've experienced, but in what you represent." 

Yes, Shepard is a great fighter he's an N7 marine.  Shep had the loyalty of his crew, I guess that demonstrates "natural charisma"  He's willing to go to great lengths to get the job done.  And so on.

He was also dead  Yes Shepard is "a hero.  A bloody icon"  But 4 billion credits worth of exceptional?  The new Normandy cost less!  Couldn't they at least have tossed in Corporal Jenkins too?    I find it very hard to believe it was cheaper and easier to bring someone back from the dead  than to find another charismatic bad**** willing to work for/with Cerberus