129 réponses à ce sujet

[MIke_18]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I play graphic adventure games when I want a heavy dose of dialogue and story with little or no combat.

The adventure genre is really living it up lately.

Try Sam and Max : Season 3  ,      Sherlock Holmes The Awakened ,  Black Mirror 2  or Still Life 2.

nwm i don't really know what graphic adventure is 

Modifié par MIke_18, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd like an RPG with no combat whatsoever. I'm sure it would do poorly.

I'd buy it.  What sort of skill allocation would take place, though?  How would inventories work?  Without attributes, skills, rulesets - etc - doesn't it become an adventure game?

"A boulder blocks your path."
[Strength] Push boulder.
[Intellgience] Walk around boulder.
[Dexterity] Slip underneath the boulder.
[Constitution] Beat the boulder in a staring contest.

"A rat is eating cheese"
[Strength] Punch rat.
[Intelligence] Beat rat at chess.
[Dexterity] Steal cheese.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:29 .

[uberdowzen]

MIke_18 wrote...

I'm playing a game for the game-play. If the strongest point of the game is talking to NPC's well then the game fails, it's simple as that.

Why? Is there something wrong with good dialogue and story?

Besides it doesn't impress me anymore. It was fun maybe in Kotor. But after seeing it in every Bioware game i got sick of it.

Then why are you playing Bioware games? There are plenty of games that focus on gameplay rather than story released each year, if you don't like Bioware's approach to story go and play one of those.

[deuce985]

IMO, Bioware has it balanced pretty well. You get a game like Modern Warfare 2 that leaves you completely confused on what is going on because it doesn't explain anything. Then you get a game like Metal Gear Solid that is so complex, often at times it leaves you lost.

Bioware games are easy to understand and easy to get into the story. They also do a great job of adding OPTIONAL story elements for the guys who want to get really deep in the lore. That, in my opinion, is how every story focused game should be built...

I wouldn't trade how they design their games for anything else.

Modifié par deuce985, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[slimgrin]

MIke_18 wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

MIke_18 wrote...

The Good thing about it, in Kotor and ME it was optional. In ME2 all i did was walk arround that ugly ass ship trough that damn elevator hoping someone might have something more to say about their boring lives.

I think you're playing the wrong games then

I like story driven games. But the party interactions on your ship/camp whatever are too artificial and boring.

I can play Torchlight for hours on end, but i always skip the mindless pretentious dribble in ME2.

Like i want to hear the life story of lesbian Riddick or Profesor Boring.

It's not mindless drivel; it's damn good writing, better than most you pick up at the book store. (You've even made me whip out the dreaded semicolon)

I've lobbied quite a bit on this site for certain types of gameplay. I love gameplay and consider it the equal of story. But with Bioware, story is gameplay because you, to a certain degree, are controlling it. 

[uberdowzen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd like an RPG with no combat whatsoever. I'm sure it would do poorly.

Surely that's an adventure game?

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd like an RPG with no combat whatsoever. I'm sure it would do poorly.

I'd buy it.  What sort of skill allocation would take place, though?

Any one you want.

How would inventories work?

Grid, list, radial menu, find and carry.

Without attributes, skills, rulesets - etc - doesn't it become an adventure game?

Probably.

uberdowzen wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd like an RPG with no combat whatsoever. I'm sure it would do poorly.

Surely that's an adventure game?

No. There are adventure games with combat. There are RPGs without. "Has combat" has nothing to do with whether one is playing an RPG or adventure game.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:37 .

[Wissenschaft]

uberdowzen wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd like an RPG with no combat whatsoever. I'm sure it would do poorly.

Surely that's an adventure game?

And theres still plenty of adventure games around today.

[MKDAWUSS]

deuce985 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

While there's an allocation of resources that does have some overlap in combat versus story, the fact is that five minutes of dialog is significantly more resource intensive than five minutes of combat. And there are people whose specialty is one thing or the other.

The people who are responsible for the various aspects of our game (whether that be combat or story) have spent quite some time refining their abilities in those particular arenas, and it's nowhere near as simple as saying 'okay, design some story, now design some combat'.

That is fine. Just keep doing what you're doing. Having less battles means the game will drag out more if you add more story. You guys do more than enough to perfectly balance it. Metal Gear Solid is a model of what not to do in a game. Watching 30 minute cutscenes is not fun. Although, I do love the franchise. That game probably had about 10 hours cutscenes and 5 hours gameplay...

My only complaint in DA:O is it dragged on at times. It seemed to have a lot of "filler" content. I'd say it was too long but in reality, that wasn't the problem. The problem was some parts of the game just were unnecessary and had little point. Like the Alienage in Denerim. Some areas of the game needed a better thought process. You can make a loooooooooooong game and still keep it interesting. Fallout games do a great job of keeping you interested in their world with unlimited content.

I agree. I don't mind my "popcorn cutscenes" and such, yet I also think that story-driven games should also cut down on the combat grind. There has to be a balance between dialog, passive interaction (interactive cutscenes), and intensive interaction (combat).

I think the problem is when you wind up with overbuilt places that really aren't plot developmentally friendly, like dungeons and such. Let's face it, you're not going to be doing a whole lot of character building in dungeons. How much story contribution was done in the Deep Roads, or any of the ruined Tevinter Temples, as opposed to the urban settlements like Denerim, Orzammar, and Redcliffe? I think locations have a big impact on story development.

[MIke_18]

slimgrin wrote...

MIke_18 wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

MIke_18 wrote...

The Good thing about it, in Kotor and ME it was optional. In ME2 all i did was walk arround that ugly ass ship trough that damn elevator hoping someone might have something more to say about their boring lives.

I think you're playing the wrong games then

I like story driven games. But the party interactions on your ship/camp whatever are too artificial and boring.

I can play Torchlight for hours on end, but i always skip the mindless pretentious dribble in ME2.

Like i want to hear the life story of lesbian Riddick or Profesor Boring.

It's not mindless drivel; it's damn good writing, better than most you pick up at the book store. (You've even made me whip out the dreaded semicolon)

I've lobbied quite a bit on this site for certain types of gameplay. I love gameplay and consider it the equal of story. But with Bioware, story is gameplay because you, to a certain degree, are controlling it. 

I've played only a few games with damn good writing...

Dreamfall is one of them. 

And The Witcher. 

Bioware games..well they are just not all that. They are all similar with the same character archetypes. 

[deuce985]

I loved The Witcher, I can't wait to play the second one. Building a new rig so hopefully I can max that beautiful game out lol.

[slimgrin]

There's no such thing as a 'combat grind' if combat is done well, ie, solid combat system, interesting encounters, variety, good animation, pacing, etc.

[Brockololly]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd like an RPG with no combat whatsoever. I'm sure it would do poorly.

Its not an RPG, but  Amnesia: The Dark Descent is an amazing, genuine horror game with no combat at all. And its only $10 on Steam this weekend!


/loves Amnesia

[MKDAWUSS]

slimgrin wrote...

It's not mindless drivel; it's damn good writing, better than most you pick up at the book store. (You've even made me whip out the dreaded semicolon)

I've lobbied quite a bit on this site for certain types of gameplay. I love gameplay and consider it the equal of story. But with Bioware, story is gameplay because you, to a certain degree, are controlling it. 

By how muchh? Just looking at DAO, there's even a canon storyline if you look very closely.

[Harid]

Some of you people are insane and I am glad Bioware doesn't listen to you.

[Face of Evil]

MIke_18 wrote...

Bioware games..well they are just not all that. They are all similar with the same character archetypes. 

Ah. And yet you continue to play the games despite the fact you hate them so much. And you also feel the need to frequent the company's forum.

...

Despite coming across it over and over, I will never, ever understand this mindset.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:44 .

[Leonia]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It's not mindless drivel; it's damn good writing, better than most you pick up at the book store. (You've even made me whip out the dreaded semicolon)

I've lobbied quite a bit on this site for certain types of gameplay. I love gameplay and consider it the equal of story. But with Bioware, story is gameplay because you, to a certain degree, are controlling it. 

By how muchh? Just looking at DAO, there's even a canon storyline if you look very closely.

There is no canon.

[MIke_18]

Never said i hate them!



I just don't think the writing is masterful or the characters compelling as some people do.

[MKDAWUSS]

leonia42 wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It's not mindless drivel; it's damn good writing, better than most you pick up at the book store. (You've even made me whip out the dreaded semicolon)

I've lobbied quite a bit on this site for certain types of gameplay. I love gameplay and consider it the equal of story. But with Bioware, story is gameplay because you, to a certain degree, are controlling it. 

By how muchh? Just looking at DAO, there's even a canon storyline if you look very closely.

There is no canon.

Yes there is. You have to look for it, but it is there. It's buried underneath all the fluff choices.

[Leonia]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It's not mindless drivel; it's damn good writing, better than most you pick up at the book store. (You've even made me whip out the dreaded semicolon)

I've lobbied quite a bit on this site for certain types of gameplay. I love gameplay and consider it the equal of story. But with Bioware, story is gameplay because you, to a certain degree, are controlling it. 

By how muchh? Just looking at DAO, there's even a canon storyline if you look very closely.

There is no canon.

Yes there is. You have to look for it, but it is there. It's buried underneath all the fluff choices.

Right, if you say so. I guess all the Bioware Devs have been lieing to us.

[upsettingshorts]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Yes there is. You have to look for it, but it is there. It's buried underneath all the fluff choices.

The Grey Warden ended the Blight in Ferelden.

[Harid]

MIke_18 wrote...

Never said i hate them!

I just don't think the writing is masterful or the characters compelling as some people do.

Company website leads to delusional fans.

I mean, they write well for writing in videogames, but videogame writing is on par with like C level movies.  And they aren't really on par with some of their past work.

[Reverie]

Harid wrote...

Company website leads to delusional fans.

I mean, they write well for writing in videogames, but videogame writing is on par with like C level movies.  And they aren't really on par with some of their past work.

So.. why are you two here then?

Not but seriously. Liking a companies work does not equal a delusional fan.

[Harid]

Reverie wrote...

Harid wrote...

Company website leads to delusional fans.

I mean, they write well for writing in videogames, but videogame writing is on par with like C level movies.  And they aren't really on par with some of their past work.

So.. why are you two here then?

Not but seriously. Liking a companies work does not equal a delusional fan.

Never said that liking a companies work made you a delusional fan.

But if you state that their stories are better than books, either you are insane, or you are comparing Bioware to some really ****ty books.  No one wants to be compared to the low end of a spectrum.

[slimgrin]

Harid wrote...

MIke_18 wrote...

Never said i hate them!

I just don't think the writing is masterful or the characters compelling as some people do.

Company website leads to delusional fans.

I mean, they write well for writing in videogames, but videogame writing is on par with like C level movies.  And they aren't really on par with some of their past work.

C level movies? Please.