207 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

The most non-Vanilla environment I've ever used is DSotSC (and close to when it first came out), and I never went to the new areas much at all (mostly because they were so buggy.) But extra mods are so popular that I'm wondering if I'm missing something essential. Are they really worth the effort and why? The three major ones that I've seen mentioned are generally BGT, BG1TuTu, and EasyTutu, and I hesitate to try anything else because I just had to install BG1+TotSC literally about 10 times before it would work on my Vista without an exception error. Mostly I just want to eliminate the inconveniences of Vanilla: no xp cap, not so many class and race restrictions, better item stacking, but I know there is a plethora of other options and attractions. I also hesitate because the mods seem to risk overindulging themselves in what I already like as it is. I'm just trying to figure out whether it's worth it to risk having to reinstall 6 CDs another 10 times to get it right and then which platform(s) is (are) the best to convert to. Whatever I'd install would be a permanent change because I'll be doing all my resurrected BG playing from there.

A related question is what difference is there between the BG2 gameplay engine that it is mentioned as superior to the BG1 engine? Is it just rules differences or is there some aesthetic or qualitative distinction? I'm finding my recollections very scant in that regard.

[Evil Lantier]

I like playing with mods.  In fact, I don't play vanilla games at all anymore. 

Easytutu is a mod that allows you to play BG1 with the BG2 engine.  The main benefits of doing this are more spells, weapon styles, and access to other mods (e.g., you can't play with the BG1NPC Project unless you mod your game).

Don't worry about losing your functioning install.  Easytutu gives you a setup option that does not "destroy" your BG1 install.  Follow the installation order here:  http://forums.gibber...?showtopic=8122

Of the other mods on that list, I like MiniQuests, Unfinished Business, BG1NPC Project (awesome mod -- adds loads of dialog and a couple romances to boot), Finch NPC, TweakPack, and SCS (install that only if you think the vanilla game is too easy).  Read their descriptions to get a sense of what they are and what they do.

Mods are intimidating the first time you try them.  Stick with it.  The rewards are worth it, imo.

Good luck!

[Humanoid_Taifun]

The advantages of the BG2 engine are obvious. It's easier to mod for (and most mods are written for this engine), the graphics are superior (not the maps, obviously - but for example the spell animations), double walking speeds (a blessing unlike any other), new race, new classes, kits, abilities, spells...

The difference between BGT and Tutu is that BGT makes one big game (allowing you to walk from Candlekeep to the Throne of Bhaal in one go), which has the following advantages:

1. Installed mods work for the entire game. (so you don't need to install everything twice or neglect any mod kits (because you wouldn't be able to import them).

2. Better import function: You dualclassed Imoen at level 10? Jaheira got all the stat tomes? With BGT they will appear in BG2 as they left you in BG1.

3. No fumbling through different folders to import your game. (minor point)

Disadvantages:

1. Mods work for the entire game. (installing SCS for example overwrites all mage scripts in the game, leaving BG2 mages with spells up to level 4 and no Stoneskins - Fortunately SCS2 is designed to overwrite the BG2 mages, so everybody works properly if you have both installed)

2. Unless you install an extra mod to correct this, you will get the BG2 XP rewards for lockpicking and trap disarming (and that's a lot of level ups!)

3. Seriously, I'm not sure why so many people use Tutu. I find the advantages of BGT completely overwhelming.

By the way, BG2 mods nowadays are WeidU, so you should be able to uninstall them without any problems while still leaving your game intact.

[wise grimwald]

Reason for liking Tutu?

Tried installing the Big Picture and was too complex for me.

Tutu was so simple and enables me to keep changing the mods that I use with ease.

Decide which I like etc. without changing the entire world.

[Son of Imoen]

a reply to your troubles at having to re-install the game n times to get it right in Vista. Two things you can do to avoid that:



1. NEVER EVER install Baldur's Gate in the Program Files Folder. Instead use a folder you create yourself such as C:\\Games\\Black Isle\\ or any name you fancy.

2. Keep the game thus created pure. Instead, copy the entire folder to a different one (for instance, C:\\Games\\Black Isle\\Trilogy or C:\\Games\\Black Isle\\BG modded or any other other name you fancy. Open baldur.ini using a text editor such as Notepad and change the line saying HD0:=C:\\Games\\Black Isle\\BGII - SoA\\ (or whatever is the name of the original folder) and change that into the name of the new folder. Than use that new folder for modding the game (note: not necessary for EasyTutu, it does creating a new game folder by itself, just change the folder name it will install to into something outside of Program Files.



Note: use the bgmain.exe file inside the folder to start the game thus created inside that folder, not the autorun.exe, as the last will still point to the unmodded game.



If you do it this way and anything goes wrong, you still have a clean install and not have to use the 6 CD's again!

[BomimoDK]

Son of Imoen. In win 7 that is no longer an issue. Just thought i'd share that.

[Son of Imoen]

BomimoDK wrote...

Son of Imoen. In win 7 that is no longer an issue. Just thought i'd share that.

OK, thanks for sharing, I didn't know that (don't have Windows 7 yet, probably won't have as long as XP is supported 'till june 2014).

As for why Tutu instead of BGT (everyone should make their own chooses, but this is why  I reverted to Tutu):

1. easier modding as wise grimwald said. I don't know what choices I'd like for my SOA/TOB party, when I'm only yet starting as an errand-runner in Candlekeep.

2. the difficulty factor: when I tried out BGT, I often encounter 1 or 2 gibberlings accompanied by 1 or 2 xvarts on my way to FA Inn and Beregost, so that the road wasn't fraught with danger. But I like it to be dangerous. The fact that (with Tutu) every step into the wilderniss could mean your death (encountering gibberlings 6 at a time) when you start (and subsequently growing in power) is THE big fun of BG1. BGT spoils that for me: I could go to Nashkel without ever having to fear for my life or reload.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 10 décembre 2010 - 03:42 .

[igneous.sponge]

One major disadvantage of BGT, in my mind, is that you have to deal with an install order constituted by mods from not just one, but two games. This isn't something casually dismissed when you play heavily-modded. In this context, EasyTutu is just... easier, by comparison.

And for me, BG1 and BG2 are (and always will be) separate games. The difference in flavour between them is quite marked.

[Bhryaen]

Wow, thanks, everyone, for this discussion, particularly Son of Imoen. (I have been installing to the Programs folder, and I won't be losing Vista for a while. I'll make your instructions into a ReadMe file!) There are some things that can't be determined without experience, and I just don't have the patience to run a character through every mod in order to get that experience. Every opinion is informative.



Another Q I have is whether there is some way to make using the disc unnecessary- i.e., able to play the game without it. NWN Platinum is a one-time install, so why shouldn't BG be the same?

[igneous.sponge]

Bhryaen wrote...

Another Q I have is whether there is some way to make using the disc unnecessary- i.e., able to play the game without it. NWN Platinum is a one-time install, so why shouldn't BG be the same?

Well, probably the least 'illegitimate' way of doing it would be to create an image from your game disc, and then mount it from a virtual drive.

However, discussing circumvention of the game's copy protection is frowned on, here. (These are the official BioWare forums, after all.) It would probably be better to ask over at one of the modding sites, like G3 or SHS, lest we all be severely flogged by Kevin.

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:15 .

[Son of Imoen]

In order to run BG without the disc legally, you have to buy the GOG-version. It's a recent reselling of old games, completely patched and with DRM removed, to be found on www.gog.com.

If you already have bought a disc version, you might not want to spend more money on buying the game again perhaps, but it's wise to do a full install. In BG2, it's easy, just choose the 'full install' option. With BG1, you need to choose 'custom install' and select all the checkboxes. Ditto for the TOTSC and TOB expansions.

2 advantages of a full install:
- you don't need to swap discs during playing the game,
- most mods require a full install to be installed properly (Tutu and BGT most certainly do).

Note: with the disc version you probably need to apply the latest patch from Bioware, there's one for the BG1-TOTSC install, and one for the BG2-TOB install. Apply these before installing any mods.

(you might add this to the readme, but before installing mods, spend time reading the readme's of mods to. What mods in what order is important to find out first).

Not only does the game have a steep learning curve, installing it has a steep learning curve as well . It's very much worth the effort though, it's the greatest game I've ever played and installed mods for, since I've done the same with Battlefield 1942 (which is a later game, but I found out about Baldur's Gate only some 3 years ago).

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

wise grimwald wrote...

Reason for liking Tutu?
Tried installing the Big Picture and was too complex for me.

Why does BGT necessitate the Big Picture?

Son of Imoen wrote...
2. the difficulty factor: when I
tried out BGT, I often encounter 1 or 2 gibberlings accompanied by 1 or
2 xvarts on my way to FA Inn and Beregost, so that the road wasn't
fraught with danger. But I like it to be dangerous. The fact that (with
Tutu) every step into the wilderniss could mean your death
(encountering gibberlings 6 at a time)

Actually, it's long been a complaint about BGT that they never rolled the dice about the number of random enemies you encounter. I've never seen more or less than 6. (though I heard there are mods to remedy this)

I can understand the modding issue. An installation with 20 some mods is difficult to properly set up. But then I a) make very specific plans about how I want my run to look before starting and don't believe that a beginner should ever want to install 20 mods on their first run through Baldur's Gate.

[Son of Imoen]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Actually, it's long been a complaint about BGT that they never rolled the dice about the number of random enemies you encounter. I've never seen more or less than 6. (though I heard there are mods to remedy this)

Maybe it was Big Picture that made the encounters so easy. When I tried installing BGTrilogy I failed three times to install it properly (no pun intended). The BG2 Fixpack was needed to install SCS and SCSII properly, and the Fixpack needs to be installed BEFORE BGT is installed. I spend a long time installing it wrong three times, before I knew how to do it right, but by then didn't feel like starting all over and automated the whole thing by using BWP. Which was still complex. The ease of modding one game at a time still is a good plus for Tutu (and I'm the kind of advanced player that uses nearly 20 mods in one install).

[Grond0]

Son of Imoen wrote...

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Actually, it's long been a complaint about BGT that they never rolled the dice about the number of random enemies you encounter. I've never seen more or less than 6. (though I heard there are mods to remedy this)

Maybe it was Big Picture that made the encounters so easy. When I tried installing BGTrilogy I failed three times to install it properly (no pun intended). The BG2 Fixpack was needed to install SCS and SCSII properly, and the Fixpack needs to be installed BEFORE BGT is installed. I spend a long time installing it wrong three times, before I knew how to do it right, but by then didn't feel like starting all over and automated the whole thing by using BWP. Which was still complex. The ease of modding one game at a time still is a good plus for Tutu (and I'm the kind of advanced player that uses nearly 20 mods in one install).

I agree BGT is more complex - I had the same problem with SCS and SCSII and cursed the writers of the readme for not making the issue clear in SCS (it is in SCSII, but I'd already installed SCS by then).  However, I think there is an appeal to having a single game.  For instance I killed Minsc in my BG1 game recently - that now makes the dungeon in BG2 a bit more difficult because he is not there to help.

There is a good source of very comprehensive mod install order guidance at http://kerzenburg.ba...ead.php?t=34931.  This was put together for the Big World Project, but can be used without it (as I am doing).

In relation to difficulty of encounters that's certainly not down to BGT per se.  The set-up I am currently using in my no-reload game gives ample opportunities to be killed early on by random encounters.  Later on the mod equipment available (if you use it) does mean that encounters become no problem.

Modifié par Grond0, 13 décembre 2010 - 07:36 .

[Bhryaen]

What are all these mods that you use? They're listed at G3, BGT and such? Is it a matter of adding areas, altering game mechanics? 20 is a lot of mods- whether speaking of what large list of changes you're making or what large list of potential bugs and crashouts you're making! I only have DSotSC now and am having a number of recurring bugs- such as NPC's suddenly not able to be dialogued but ok on a reload. I'm not liking the story and arbitrary encounter modifications from DSotSC, mind you, though 30 arrows is better than 20. I can't imagine putting in 20 different mods that stick their hands in the original game I've liked for so long. Or is it just 20 specific tweaks?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...
What are all these mods that you use?

Mods to alter the game definition (1680 x 1050 for me), the models, the rules, the number of NPCs, the difficulty, quests...
Once you start modding, from time to time you will find mods you won't want to play without anymore. Over time, these will accumulate.

what large list of potential bugs and crashouts you're making!

Quite. At some point you should just give up on hoping on an entirely bugfree run. But usually you can still get through without any real problems with the help of the console. It's a trade-off.

I only have DSotSC now and am having a number of recurring bugs- such as NPC's suddenly not able to be dialogued but ok on a reload.

Sounds like you forgot to patch.

I can't imagine putting in 20 different mods that stick their hands in the original game I've liked for so long. Or is it just 20 specific tweaks?

Even if BG2 is good, it's not perfect. I'm pretty sure most players have a critique about the game of some sort. Mods are made from fans for fans, so it's not like "Hey, let's randomize all items in the game, WAHAHAHAHAHA!" or "Dude, you know what would be awesome? If everybody had stoneskins, like all the time!" or even "I think magic is too weak. How are you supposed to take mages seriously if they can't insta-kill a level 40 party with a single ADHW?!" *

*All of these mods exist though, of course. And they don't get half as much bad press as the mods that allow romancing a little girl, or your sister, or Sarevok.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 14 décembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[igneous.sponge]

Bhryaen wrote...

What are all these mods that you use? They're listed at G3, BGT and such?

The Gibberlings Three (G3) is just one of the various Infinity Engine (IE) modding communities. All the mods I, myself, use come from G3, Spellhold Studios (SHS) and Pocket Plane Group (PPG), and also from WeiDU.org, the website that hosts Westley Weimer's (big-time retired IE modder) tools and mods.

BGT's home is here, at SHS. EasyTutu can be found here, alternatively.

20 is a lot of mods- whether speaking of what large list of changes you're making or what large list of potential bugs and crashouts you're making!

What H_T said is essentially true. Bugs are pretty much the nature of the beast, but your game's degree of bugginess also depends to a large extent on what mods you install, and in what combination. Many will come into conflict, and this is especially true for older mods where techniques for ensuring compatibility friendliness weren't yet available.

However, if you stick with more recent mods, read the documentation, and follow the recommended install order, you aren't likely to run into many problems. For example, I play with the Fixpack, aTweaks, Rogue Rebalancing, Sword Coast Stratagems II, et al., mods that are high-quality efforts, and bugs are quite uncommon. In fact, most bugs I do encounter aren't even recognisable unless you know what to look for. Certainly none of them are game-breaking.

I can't imagine putting in 20 different mods that stick their hands in the original game I've liked for so long. Or is it just 20 specific tweaks?

Most of them are a lot more specific and smaller in scope than DSotSC, certainly.

[Bhryaen]

The further I get into DSotSC, the more disappointed (annoyed) I'm getting with it. First they load various familiar areas with extra mobs of their new (recolored), scatty-AI monsters, and then they make a merchant who sells a Ring of Normal Missile Protection for 90gp that enables me to destroy them all without skill, planning, or worry... and collect free +1 swords from them and such... just the tip of the cheeseburg... That's what I mean by mods meddling (fumbling about) with the main story. I really only used DSotSC for the level cap remover & better stacking, so at this point I wish that's all there was to it. I may just start over now because the bandit camp that used to be one of my favorite areas was a fiasco. That said, if DSotSC were done in a more interesting way that didn't alter the primary encounters of the game or introduce story inconsistencies, maybe I'd like it. The new spells are quaint enough...

I did (finally) get correct the install sequence of 1) BG1 discs, 2) TotSC, 3) TotSC patch, 4) DSotSC. (That's right, isn't it?) I'm going to start over again with 1-3 and add BG2/ToB- all installed outside the Programs folder- and make cloned folders for both (as Son of Imoen suggested). Then I'm going to start messing with more modding...

I'm truly not decided yet on BGT or Tutu (and may end up trying both). I'm leaning toward the benefit of story consistency and now I see what appears to be a good instructional link to the BiG World (BGT?) install:
http://www.reddit.co...ldurs_gate_and/
Both convert BG1 to the BG2 engine, but I assume mods like TutuGUI aren't compatible with BGT? Is there then a BGTGUI (or a BGTGUI-widescreen, hehe)? Or a BGTDegreenifier? Do BGT and Tutu do nothing more than change to the BG2 engine, necessitating more mods? The newer BGT-WeiDU is supposed to be more modding-compatible, but is EasyTutu still easier?

Thank you muchly, everyone, for this discussion, especially for your lists to link to, igneous.sponge! The best site is Pocket Plane with an overwhelming number of mods listed categorically (http://www.pocketplane.net/modlist/), but maybe there is a better one. [EDIT, 4 days later: Actually now I see most sites are better than that one, particularly G3 because they have readme's online, more thorough descriptions, and feature more established mods] Now I'm having a good launching point for a better sense of the variety in the kinds of things there are to mod for and how to minimize bugginess. :-) And already I'm answering a lot of my own Q's before posting... but still there are more... Like do the mods listed at Pocket Plane under the heading BG1 not work for a BGT- or EasyTutu-altered BG? Are the ones listed for BG1Tutu compatible with EasyTutu?

Is it a matter of installing BGT or Tutu and THEN installing the right sequence of smaller mods? Son of Imoen says a Fixpack was necessary BEFORE installing BGT. Is that the only exception? Before deciding on DSotSC I had already considered the Fixpack because various forum participants had mentioned it, but then I couldn't find a specific link. It's not the same as the Tweakpack. Is there one single one that deserves the name Fixpack? Who puts it out? On the Pocket Plane site, for instance, it lists two different ones:
http://www.pocketpla...=list&cat_id=16
And at G3 it lists a self-proclaimed "definitive" one, but for BG2:
http://www.gibberlin...net/bg2fixpack/

Do all the install readme's for recent mods specifically list other mods that need to come before/ after? Then again, how recent is recent? 2009 forward? Are there lists posted of pre-tested mod choices and sequences? Grond0, you gave a great link to a BiG World list, but it's "only" a huge, comprehensive list of various install links, not an installation sequence list necessarily, is it? Or am I just missing a link? I wouldn't know how to choose other than to download willy nilly and check all the readme's one by one. I'm guessing that the major compatibility issue would be mods that alter or utilize the same NPCs, monsters, or areas. So the trick is selecting the ones that don't overlap or ones that only introduce new things rather than change the environment. No?

Another thing I'm stumbling on is WeiDU/non-WeiDu. If a mod is non-WeiDU does this mean it's more likely to cause bugs? What does it matter?

Given the types of mods apparently out there, it seems like it's more of a personal question than I recognized to ask what mods everyone uses- at least regarding the more obscure ones- but I'd love to know what experiences people have had, their favorites, the most stable & effective, etc. Obviously there are some established mods already that any modder will encounter (that I'm seeing frequently), but the Sarevok romance sounds hillarious.

Modifié par Bhryaen, 18 décembre 2010 - 09:33 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

[quote]Bhryaen wrote...
The further I get into DSotSC, the more disappointed (annoyed) I'm getting with it.[/quote]
Yeah, the older Total Conversion mods are not really worth it. Buggy as hell, imbalanced etc...
[quote]I really only used DSotSC for the level cap remover & better stacking,[/quote]
And with BGT/Tutu stacking will go up to 40. BG2 G3 Tweaks can take care of the XP cap (if you're playing with Tutu - I don't think BGT has an XP cap below 8 million XP).

[quote]Is there then a BGTGUI (or a BGTGUI-widescreen, hehe)? Or a BGTDegreenifier? Do BGT and Tutu do nothing more than change to the BG2 engine, necessitating more mods?[/quote]
I was never interested in getting the BG1 User Interface back, so I never checked for that (but I'm pretty sure you could find such a thing if you looked hard enough - just be warned that you'd have to play BG2 with it as well unless you took the 4 minutes it'd take to uninstall it once you were done with BG1).

[quote]The newer BGT-WeiDU is supposed to be more modding-compatible, but is EasyTutu still easier?[/quote]
(forgot to mention that only BGT is compatible with the G3 Fixpack - another advantage) Older mods are generally for Tutu only. Newer mods usually support both. As I see it, the main difference is really that with BGT every mod you install affects the entire game (big advantage/small disadvantage) and with Tutu you can reduce the number of mods for each installation (advantage).

[quote]Like do the mods listed at Pocket Plane under the heading BG1 not work for a BGT- or EasyTutu-altered BG?[/quote]
Check the readmes. If they don't mention them, probably not.
[quote]Are the ones listed for BG1Tutu compatible with EasyTutu?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote]Is it a matter of installing BGT or Tutu and THEN installing the right sequence of smaller mods? Son of Imoen says a Fixpack was necessary BEFORE installing BGT. Is that the only exception?[/quote]
Non-WeiDU mods usually need to be installed before the the Fixpack (as does Ascension, even if it's WeiDU). I don't know if they'd completely screw up your BGT install though. Non-WeiDU mods require some care.

Before deciding on DSotSC I had already considered the Fixpack because various forum participants had mentioned it, but then I couldn't find a specific link.[/quote]
It's not the same as "the" Tweakpack, no (Have you any idea how many Tweakpacks there are?!), but it's from the same group, namely Gibberlings 3 (or G3 for short).
So, yes, the "definitive one" is the one we like and advertise.

[quote]Do all the install readme's for recent mods specifically list other mods that need to come before/ after? Then again, how recent is recent? 2009 forward? Are there lists posted of pre-tested mod choices and sequences?[/quote]
No. They will point out incompabilities they know of, but you cannot possibly hope to get a full list for each mod.
BGT has one.

[quote]and check all the readme's one by one.[/quote]
And that's what I do every single time.
[quote]I'm guessing that the major compatibility issue would be mods that alter or utilize the same NPCs, monsters, or areas. So the trick is selecting the ones that don't overlap or ones that only introduce new things rather than change the environment. No?[/quote]
Those can have incompabilities, sure. But the bigger threats are mods that change the rules. That's where you have to pay attention.

[quote]Another thing I'm stumbling on is WeiDU/non-WeiDu. If a mod is non-WeiDU does this mean it's more likely to cause bugs? What does it matter?[/quote]
WeiDU in one mod is not very important. But when you get a group of mods together, the WeiDU mods will be a lot nicer to each other. They can also be uninstalled with more ease.

[quote]Given the types of mods apparently out there, it seems like it's more of a personal question than I recognized to ask what mods everyone uses- at least regarding the more obscure ones- but I'd love to know what experiences people have had, their favorites, the most stable & effective, etc.[/quote]
A quick look into my BG2 mod folder reveals:
1PP, aTweaks, BG1 NPCs, G3 Fix- and Tweakpack, Crossmod BG2, Item Revisions (and also possibly Spell Revisions, but that one seems more likely to bring about problems with for example SCS2), Kivan, Level1NPCs, Moinesse Avatars, Rogue Rebalancing, Saerileth, Sarevok Romance, SCS (1 + 2), Spell50, Wheels of Fortune, Widescreen Mod and Xan.
Not all of them are installed for each cruise, but these are the ones that I will ogle with at least once for every installation.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 15 décembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...
Do all the install readme's for recent mods specifically list other mods that need to come before/ after? Then again, how recent is recent? 2009 forward? Are there lists posted of pre-tested mod choices and sequences? Grond0, you gave a great link to a BiG World list, but it's "only" a huge, comprehensive list of various install links, not an installation sequence list necessarily, is it?

The list is intended to give an installation order as well as giving notes on compatibility.

Although as you can see there is a huge range of mod choices out there you shouldn't feel compelled to use them immediately.  The 'vanilla' game is great in its own right and it's probably not possible to really appreciate what the effect of mods will be on your personal gaming likes and dislikes until you have some experience of it.

[Bhryaen]

OK, getting into the thick of the mod considerations, and now a lot of what I was asking seems obvious, but here's my new thicket of perplexity...

I'm initially siding with Tutu for stability and simplicity reasons, but I'm still not sure how it works exactly. Tutu will replace the game appearance, game rules, and character options of BG1 with those of BG2. Check. But does it do this by using my BG2 install? I need BG2 installed to make it work. But Tutu doesn't graduate the completion of BG1 into BG2- i.e., there simply isn't a BG2Tutu- so it seems more like Tutu is just a facimile BG2, But that's not it because one option is to dissolve BG1 entirely under Tutu, so that in fact Tutu is a facimile BG1 addendum to BG2...

What I'm actually driving at is whether or not to mod BG2 for the changes I want to see in BG1 Tutustyle. If I mod BG2 will it show up in TutuedBG1 gameplay? Or are the only mods that matter for Tutu the ones that affect BG1? I mean if I mod BG2 for prestige classes of bard, will I then be able to make an Acrobat start in Candlekeep (in training for the Nashkel carnival)? Does it matter if I install SCS2? Or the G3 BG2Fixpack (given that it's for BG2)?

Another matter also pertains to the way Tutu makes the BG1 install (which it requires in entirety and fully patched) irrelevant. If Tutu has its own BG1 functioning, how do BG1 patches work at all- i.e., since they're patching a game that's being ignored by a BG2-based controller that has its own BG1 in tow. There are so many BG1 mods that I wouldn't be able to play BECAUSE I have Tutu installed- or am I still not getting it? I wonder though if BGT is any different on this ground.

Anyway with the large list of mods I'm compiling now (and will be sieving through) I'm seeking direction regarding implementation... And I've only perused G3's list so far!

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...
Tutu will replace the game appearance, game rules, and character options of BG1 with those of BG2. Check. But does it do this by using my BG2 install?

Assuming you're using EasyTutu it uses the BG2 install information during its creation, but actually sets up a new folder, i.e. it leaves your BG2 install untouched.

What I'm actually driving at is whether or not to mod BG2 for the changes I want to see in BG1 Tutustyle. If I mod BG2 will it show up in TutuedBG1 gameplay? Or are the only mods that matter for Tutu the ones that affect BG1?

Mods that make rule changes will affect BG1 gameplay even if they were designed for BG2, but those that only affect, e.g. NPCs will not.

Another matter also pertains to the way Tutu makes the BG1 install (which it requires in entirety and fully patched) irrelevant. If Tutu has its own BG1 functioning, how do BG1 patches work at all.

Your patches need to be applied to whichever folder you're using to play the game.  As said above this would be a separate folder for EasyTutu.  If you were playing BGT the mods would be applied to your existing BG2 folder.

[igneous.sponge]

Bhryaen wrote...

Tutu will replace the game appearance, game rules, and character options of BG1 with those of BG2. Check. But does it do this by using my BG2 install?

Yes, you'll need BG2 installed to physically create the Tutu installation, but beyond that you won't need BG2 for the Tutu install to function.

But Tutu doesn't graduate the completion of BG1 into BG2 [...]

Correct. When you finish BG1 using Tutu, the game will simply end, as it would without the engine conversion. You can then manually import your PC into your stand-alone BG2 install.

[...] so it seems more like Tutu is just a facimile BG2, But that's not it because one option is to dissolve BG1 entirely under Tutu, so that in fact Tutu is a facimile BG1 addendum to BG2...

When you start installing Tutu, the setup wizard will combine resources from both games. In layman's terms, it will take the area-, dialogue-, and story-related resources from your vanilla BG1 install, and combine them with the engine-, rules- and GUI-related resources from your BG2 one. The resulting Tutu install is stand-alone, separate from both your former BG1 and BG2 games. (Unless you elect to 'consume' BG1 at install-time, as a space-saving option. In that case your vanilla BG1 install is deleted.)

The resulting Tutu install is probably best described as a BG2 facsimile, but without the BG2 content. Instead, all the BG1 content is crammed inside it.

What I'm actually driving at is whether or not to mod BG2 for the changes I want to see in BG1 Tutustyle.

No, don't do that. You must use clean, patched, vanilla installs as a basis for the Tutu installation. After you've got the Tutu install up and running, you can then apply what other changes you want to the Tutu install directly with the use of subsequent mods.

Here is a comprehensive list of mods compatible with Tutu and a suggested order of installation:

   Tutu Mod Compatibility and Order of Install, Summarized State of the Modding Union on Tutu

Read it carefully, there's a lot of important info.

If I mod BG2 will it show up in TutuedBG1 gameplay?

If you apply any mods to BG2 before creating the Tutu install, your Tutu install will simply come out broken.

Or are the only mods that matter for Tutu the ones that affect BG1?

Not necessarily. There a great many mods that make rules changes, or whose modifications are relevant across BG1 and BG2. For example, Rogue Rebalancing is compatible with Tutu, BGT, and BG2/ToB. Check the documentation for notes regarding compatibility on Tutu and BGT installs.

I mean if I mod BG2 for prestige classes of bard, will I then be able to make an Acrobat start in Candlekeep (in training for the Nashkel carnival)?

If you were to install this mod, you'd have to apply it to the newly set-up and stand-alone Tutu install, not the BG2 one. If you want the changes to reflect across both games, apply the same mod to BG2 afterwards, as well. (Provided that the mod is compatible with BG2, too.)

Does it matter if I install SCS2? Or the G3 BG2Fixpack (given that it's for BG2)?

Yes, it matters. You'll need a clean, vanilla BG2 installation to form the basis of your Tutu install. If you want to use the G3 Fixpack or SCSII, apply them to your BG2 game after you've got the Tutu install up and running.

Also, there is a separate version of SCS for BG1, found here.

Another matter also pertains to the way Tutu makes the BG1 install (which it requires in entirety and fully patched) irrelevant. If Tutu has its own BG1 functioning, how do BG1 patches work at all- i.e., since they're patching a game that's being ignored by a BG2-based controller that has its own BG1 in tow.

As explained in the thread I linked to, what you want to do is apply the official patches to your games before initiating the Tutu setup process. All fixes and changes from the patches are then rolled into the newly formed and independent Tutu install.

And I've only perused G3's list so far!

Heh, yes, there a lot of mods out there... a lot.

[EDIT] Many changes for clarity.

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 18 décembre 2010 - 10:04 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

igneous.sponge wrote...

I mean if I mod BG2 for prestige classes of bard, will I then be able to make an Acrobat start in Candlekeep (in training for the Nashkel carnival)?

If you were to install this mod, you'd have to apply it to the newly set-up and stand-alone Tutu install, not the BG2 one. If you want the changes to reflect across both games, apply the same mod to BG2 afterwards, as well. (Provided that the mod is compatible with BG2, too.)

And then you'd probably have to recreate your character at the beginning of Baldur's Gate 2.

[igneous.sponge]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

And then you'd probably have to recreate your character at the beginning of Baldur's Gate 2.

Yes, I didn't even consider that. The BG2 install likely won't recognise a custom kit on a character imported from a modded Tutu game, even if you've installed the same mod to BG2. (It's got something to do with how mod resources are dynamically patched onto the games; even if two installs share the same mod, the positions of string references and other internal identifiers will be different, depending on install order and other factors.)

Another advantage to BGT, then.

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 18 décembre 2010 - 12:04 .