207 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

OK... Dang, you guys are nice to bear with me...

So now I'm clear about the advantage of Tutu that if something goes wrong with my mods, it only affects the Tutu game, and I can just delete it and make another one to start over. (I'm anticipating this given my tendency toward experimentation...) (Or does BGT have its own folder too?) In the same way I think I understand now that after Tutu is installed (which is right after vanilla+patches is), all the mods I apply will be to the Tutu game, not to either BG1 or BG2... yes? So anything I do to BG1 or BG2 from that point on will be irrelevant if I open a game from the Tutu game launcher? (I'm now anticipating yet another barrage of questions after I try BGT...)

The other question I had that I didn't word correctly is whether to use BG1 or BG2 mods on the Tutu game (i.e., after Tutu is already installed) given that it's a BG1 game that uses the BG2 engine. Is it a matter of being "limited" in choices to mods that affect BG2 (rules, avatars, GUI) and the BG1 gameworld (NPCs, areas, items)? Of course if the mod readme says "ok for EasyTutu" then it's already a go, but many just say for BG2. I like the Item Randomizer mod a lot- it would dramatically change the entire game for me- but it seems to require BG2 as well since it randomizes items there also. And the G3 BG2Fixpack fixes things like demons and such that aren't in the BG1 world. Do the mods still work by simply ignoring what it can't do? As to this though, I think igneous.sponge was confirming that the mod that would create an Acrobat would apply and show up in Tutu, but that's just character creation which doesn't stray from the Tutu gameworld.

Of course I'm simultaneously making forays into the "No Reload" thread in which many are posting the mods they're using- indicating explicitly BGT or Tutu and which mods are therefore compatible (and maybe reliable and worthwhile)- and that's helping too, but I still don't feel confident enough yet to know how to select (other than simply use the same ones). In terms of order I'm planning to use the readmes and online info as well as common sense, but in terms of the "whether to" I'm still unsure. First I have to compile my list of options... I'll eventually post what I'm going to try so you can say NOOOOOO!

Given that Tutu doesn't really use BG2- I'm curious... Is the reason that BG2 must be installed a matter of the BG2 engine requiring the ToB (or SoA) game CD to play? Maybe a copyright issue or a BG2 recognition tool? Or is it a matter of reducing download bulk by having a Tutu installer that simply borrows the existing game data of both BG1 and 2 to build the Tutu game?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...
So now I'm clear about the advantage of Tutu that if something goes wrong with my mods, it only affects the Tutu game, and I can just delete it and make another one to start over. (I'm anticipating this given my tendency toward experimentation...) (Or does BGT have its own folder too?)

The nice thing about WeiDU is that you can do this regardless of whether you use Tutu, or BGT or whatever. With BGT you are simply more likely to have more mods running at the same time, so it'll take a bit longer. (if you uninstall the 4th mod out of 7, WeiDU makes sure that all other mods remain in order, and it does this by uninstalling and reinstalling mods 5 - 7)

In the same way I think I understand now that after Tutu is installed (which is right after vanilla+patches is), all the mods I apply will be to the Tutu game, not to either BG1 or BG2... yes? So anything I do to BG1 or BG2 from that point on will be irrelevant if I open a game from the Tutu game launcher? (I'm now anticipating yet another barrage of questions after I try BGT...)

Correct.

The other question I had that I didn't word correctly is whether to use BG1 or BG2 mods on the Tutu game (i.e., after Tutu is already installed) given that it's a BG1 game that uses the BG2 engine. Is it a matter of being "limited" in choices to mods that affect BG2 (rules, avatars, GUI) and the BG1 gameworld (NPCs, areas, items)? Of course if the mod readme says "ok for EasyTutu" then it's already a go, but many just say for BG2.

Mods for pure BG1 (those are OLD) will likely not work (and you probably wouldn't want them to work either, the modding community wasn't very advanced in it's techniques back then). Everything designed for BGT or Tutu will say in it's description for which one it is written (if not both).
Mods for BG2 that may make sense for BG1 (mods like Item Revisions or Spell Revisions) are dangerous. If they are intended for BG2, then even if they work on Tutu, they may seriously unbalance things. So, if the readme doesn't specifically mention that they work with Tutu or BGT, you better stay clear of them. (this is pure logic speaking, no experience at all with a certain demon battle that was suddenly and surprisingly changed into a nightmare as the creature turned out to be a level draining, rapidly regenerating beast of a demon, goddamnit!!)

I like the Item Randomizer mod a lot- it would dramatically change the entire game for me- but it seems to require BG2 as well since it randomizes items there also.

Check the readme. If it says it's okay for Tutu, you may as well trust the maker.

And the G3 BG2Fixpack fixes things like demons and such that aren't in the BG1 world.

The G3 Fixpack is incompatible with Tutu. I think I mentioned that somewhere. (but who is supposed to read every wall of text, right?

Do the mods still work by simply ignoring what it can't do?

Only count on that if the creator was anticipating Tutu (readme?)

[Irrbloss]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

So, if the readme doesn't specifically mention that they work with Tutu or BGT, you better stay clear of them. (this is pure logic speaking, no experience at all with a certain demon battle that was suddenly and surprisingly changed into a nightmare as the creature turned out to be a level draining, rapidly regenerating beast of a demon, goddamnit!!)

Hey, don't blame aTweaks for having to fight a Nabassu at level 8. But aVENGER did consider Aec'Letec when he wrote aTweaks' PnP Fiends.

I like the Item Randomizer mod a lot- it would dramatically change the entire game for me- but it seems to require BG2 as well since it randomizes items there also.

Check the readme. If it says it's okay for Tutu, you may as well trust the maker.

Yeah, Item Randomiser works on Tutu. You can even install it on old, plain BG1 if you want.

Modifié par Irrbloss, 18 décembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Irrbloss wrote...
Hey, don't blame aTweaks for having to fight a Nabassu at level 8. But aVENGER did consider Aec'Letec when he wrote aTweaks' PnP Fiends.

Not blaming anybody but myself. I did ask for the demons to be closer to their PnP counterparts, after all.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 19 décembre 2010 - 12:46 .

[Bhryaen]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
The G3 Fixpack is incompatible with Tutu. I think I mentioned that somewhere. (but who is supposed to read every wall of text, right?

So it was you who said that...  I did remember it, but I was trying to pick a mod to exemplify and was looking at the G3 list again. But wait... ok, ok... If the G3 Fixpack is incompatible with Tutu and it's essential to play SCS, then how does SCS work with Tutu? Or does it?

[igneous.sponge]

Bhryaen wrote...

Do the mods still work by simply ignoring what it can't do?

Most mods do, yes. When installing their modifications, they routinely check when and where to make changes relevant to the game-type to which they're being installed (e.g., Tutu, BGT, SoA, SoA+ToB). If a certain mod is not at all meant for the particular game-type to which it's being installed, it will usually print a message saying so and exit without making changes.

However, it's still best to check the documentation beforehand, as H_T said, because not all mods are coded so securely.

As to this though, I think igneous.sponge was confirming that the mod that would create an Acrobat would apply and show up in Tutu, but that's just character creation which doesn't stray from the Tutu gameworld.

Yes, you would be able to create your Acrobat and play as an Acrobat throughout BG1, using Tutu.

However, as H_T pointed out, it's likely that when you finish BG1, your Acrobat will not correctly import to BG2, even if your BG2 install shares the same mod. In that case, you may have to manually re-create the character.

In terms of order I'm planning to use the readmes and online info as well as common sense, but in terms of the "whether to" I'm still unsure. First I have to compile my list of options... I'll eventually post what I'm going to try so you can say NOOOOOO!

Yes, that would be the easiest way to go about it. Giving theoretical expositions can be difficult, at times, without some solid grounding. If you post a list of what mods you're interested in, we can simply say 'yes' or 'NOOOOO!'

Is the reason that BG2 must be installed a matter of the BG2 engine requiring the ToB (or SoA) game CD to play? Maybe a copyright issue or a BG2 recognition tool? Or is it a matter of reducing download bulk by having a Tutu installer that simply borrows the existing game data of both BG1 and 2 to build the Tutu game?

I assume it's a little of both, really: to reduce download size, and to prevent the creation of Tutu installs for those who don't own BG2.

But wait... ok, ok... If the G3 Fixpack is incompatible with Tutu and it's essential to play SCS, then how does SCS work with Tutu? Or does it?

There are two versions of Sword Coast Stratagems. SCS applies to the BG1 portion of the series, and doesn't require the G3 Fixpack, naturally. It runs on both BGT and Tutu.

SCSII, on the other hand, is designed for BG2, and is recommended with the Fixpack in conjunction. SCSII is compatible with BG2 and BGT.

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 19 décembre 2010 - 05:02 .

[Bhryaen]

So, um... here's my proposed modding... not too ambitious... not exactly 20, no, more like 36...

DAMN this took a long time to work through! Days! Anyway how does this look? It's actually not thrown together carelessly despite the bulk of it. I based every choice of inclusion, manner of inclusion, and sequential inclusion position from research (returning repeatedly) into specific mod readmes. I used a few solid online mod order proposal webpages (though most didn't mention things like Spell or Item Revisions or Item Randomizer.) This was the best for Tutu:
forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php

Most frustratingly the readmes of two mods would directly contradict each other, the worst being Rogue Rebalancing and Song & Silence which each say to install after the other. (I went with RR's suggestion because it was presented as more of a compatibility need than a recommendation.) Then you add the weapons provision component of Ashes of Embers which S&S says to install before it while R&R says to install after. (Again I let RR determine it.) There is no way to do what each mod recommends: S&S, R&R, AoE contradicts S&S twice, R&R, AoE, S&S contradicts R&R once. etc. The Tutu mod order page above put S&S way earlier behind the quest and NPC mods. Mostly I was just impressed by the large order list constructed for RR which I'm counting upon to yield modding wisdom in this regard:
www.shsforums.net/index.php

There are obviously a ton of other mods out there, but I was trying to find the less obscure, so I went with the ones that are part of a sort of regular reappearance group. If they made it to the more modest mod order lists (not yours, Grond0!) I looked them up. I also gleaned from lists mentioned by posters to the "No Reloads Challenge" thread, but I'm not sure if those lists are mentioned in sequential order (other than the ones with pasted material from their mod script files). There's plenty that I left out and plenty of mods from which I only want specific components. I remembered how much I learned to loathe character kits, so my choices reflect that. I bet they're among the buggiest things going. So many mods want to change different types of things in one go- NPCs, items, spells, effects, rules- it's hard to know what order would work right. Some mods say, "install after item [or kit, or NPC] changers," but there's always that one item the mod just can't resist fiddling with. BG2 Tweakpack is a great, great mod for all those options, but it's one of the bigger risks too.

The other issue is avatar changers. I saw Humanoid_Taifun used 1PP, but I'm not sure if it's simply impossible to include Moinesse and Infinity Animations simultaneously. Plus Item Revisions adds enhanced 1PP stuff apparently. I'm hoping someone has had experience with these and other mods enough to warn me off. I do prefer the BG1 graphics though.

I wanted to put Item Randomizer at the end because, well, the readme said to put it near there, but also because I might uninstall and reinstall it, and I don't want issues doing so. Apparently it doesn't randomize each game but only each install, so I figure I'll be doing that a bit...

As to the "unbalancing" that Humanoid_Taifun mentioned, I don't think I'll get a supercharged demon, but I think I have stacked the cards against myself enough that whatever perks may have also been worked into the mix won't exactly make for smooth sailing. I expect that if all I'd installed was SCS, I'd be in for a good deal of struggle. With Dark Horizons, various modded penalties to make the game more to PnP and realistic, and Hard Times also installed, I think I can be forgiven certain selections that make my gameworld experiences better. I didn't choose the cheat stuff anyway as far as I'm concerned. The Max HP per level idea is allowed by the "No Reloads Challenge" by permitting temporarily lowering the difficulty level in order to get it: I simply prevent myself from forgetting to turn it back up after levelling (which I've done so many a time.)

Well, here goes. I made an excel sheet (which appears to have adapted poorly to the forum engine), and it seems the coloring I used to assist me doesn't show up here, but at least the format does. This grid is how I tried to make explicit all the factors involved. There are some choices I'm leaving out (ex., G3 BG2 Fixpack) but still might want on a different install (of BGT), so they're present but get an "X" rather than a number. Otherwise this is what I'm proposing, so I'm hoping it looks feasible and at least not game-breaking.

ALL advice is welcome!

[EDITTED VERSION (cleaned up quite a bit because Excel format fell apart)]

MOD INSTALL AND ORDER LIST:
EasyTutu v4.0
Degreenifier v4
NPC Kits v2
Tutufix v18
Hard Times v2 (%)
Herbs & Potions v1.03
BG Miniquests v6
Sirine’s Call (Tutu v10)
Grey Clan, Part 1 (Tutu v1.11)
Stone of Askavar v1.5
Dark Horizons (Tutu v204)
BG1 NPC Project v18 (@)
BG1 Unfinished Business v12 (@)
Coran Friendship Extension v2
Xan Friendship v6
Ajantis Friendship Extension
Finch (BG1 NPC) v3
Mur'Neth (BG1 NPC) v10
Gavin (BG1 NPC) v8
WizWomJon (BG1 NPC)
Moinesse's Avatars v4
Item Revisions v2 (Part 1) ($)
One Pixel Productions (1PP) v2.7 ($)
Spell Revisions v3
Sword Coast Strategems v16
Song and Silence v5 (*)
Rogue Rebalancing v438 (*) ($)
Ashes of Embers v27 (*)
Item Revisions v2 (Part 2)
BG2 Tweakpack v9
aTweaks v330
Spawn Randomizer v3
Infinity Animations v5
TutuGUI v18
Widescreen v2.60
Item Randomizer v6.2 (%)

KNOWN CONFLICTS KEY:
@ May have issues if order is NPC Project after Unfinished
Business because UB otherwise wouldn't fully install if NPC Project
recognized

$ Conflicts  btw 1PP & Item Rev Potions, Paperdolls, Flaming Swords, Shields, Helmets

*Inherent issue w/ RR, S&S, AoE if install kits. Conflicting install
order between RR & S&S readmes

% May be issues due to Hard Times item relocations. Issue not
addressed in readmes of Item Revisions or Item Randomizer
 

FULL INFO OF MOD INSTALL LIST:
1 EasyTutu v4.0
INSTALL: After BG1, TotSC, TotSC Patch, BG2, ToB, ToB Patch

2 Degreenifier v4
DOES: Fixes green water of Tutu
 
3 NPC Kits v2
DOES: Adds kit selection for NPCs upon recruitment

4 Tutufix v18
INSTALL: Early due to direct changes to Tutu environment, immediately after Degreenifier

X Drizzt Is Not Stupid
DOES: Drizzt encounter rework, Drizzt tactical improvement
INSTALL: No conflict unless Drizzt behavior or dialogue modded

X BG2 Fixpack
DOES: BGT

5 Hard Times v2 (%)
DOES: Until cloakwood mines clear, store prices and inns costlier, freebie found items relocated, fewer magic items in stores, many of removed items installed elsewhere, powerful magic items (Algernon Cloak, wands) reduced, high lvl encounter at Ulcaster
INSTALL: early on, right after Degreenifier

6 Herbs & potions v1.03
DOES: Alchemy functions for making potions; Nashkel store
INSTALL: any time because adds unique content, changes nothing

7 BG Miniquests v6
DOES: small added encounters mostly from Beregost to Nashkel
INSTALL: No issues- added encounter content only

8 Sirine’s Call (Tutu v10)
DOES: Small added encounters in lighthouse area
 
9 Grey Clan, Part 1 (Tutu v1.11)
DOES: Large adventure, starts from Lord Eltan in BG City
 
10 Stone of Askavar v1.5
DOES: Large adventure, starts Chapter 5 north of Nashkel
 
11 Dark Horizons (Tutu v204)
DOES: Large adventure
 
12 BG1 NPC Project v18 (@)
DOES: Adds miniadventures for all NPCs, extra banter content
INSTALL: "SCS & BG1UB adapted" to enable this mod. Adapted for Sirine's Call

13 BG1 Unfinished Business v12 (@)
DOES: Various NPC quest miniadventures, creature & item corrections, area fixes & restorations, audio fixes, dialogue fixes & restorations; elven charm/sleep resistence
INSTALL: Checks for NPCProject & deletes content to avoid conflict

14 Coran Friendship Extension v2
DOES: Adds NPC dialog content to surpass content from NPC Project
 
15 Xan Friendship v6
DOES: Adds NPC dialog content
 
16 Ajantis Friendship Extension
DOES: Adds NPC dialog content to surpass content from NPC Project
 
17 Finch (BG1 NPC) v3
DOES: Adds NPC w/ dialog content & small miniquest. Found in Beregost
 
18 Mur'Neth (BG1 NPC) v10
DOES: Adds NPC w/ dialog content. Found in Nashkel Mines
 
19 Gavin (BG1 NPC) v8
DOES: Adds NPC w/ dialog content. Found at Temple east of Beregost
 
20 WizWomJon (BG1 NPC)
DOES: Adds NPC w/ dialog content & small miniquest.

21 Moinesse's Avatars v4
DOES: Long hair for avatar; half-orc paperdoll change;  robe appearance change; vampire, monk, mage, female rogue new avatars

22 Item Revisions v2 (Part 1) ($)
DOES: Main Component only: improvements on 1PP avatar
INSTALL: before 1PP & use only 1PP tweaks if possible;  main component item desc doesn't work on Tutu & conflicts w mods that rev item desc

23 One Pixel Productions (1PP) v2.7 ($)
DOES: Ports BG1's paperdoll images & reworks, spell effect fix, item graphics reworks, other BG1 restorations in BG2 engine, flame swords, new avatars
 
X Oversight v13
DOES: Reassigns alignment in BG2 gameworld, improves Detect Evil and Know Alignment, adds kits
INSTALL: Alignment spells dealt with in aTweaks; conflicts with multiple stronghold component of Ease of Use & BG@ Tweakpack

24 Spell Revisions v3
DOES: Revs to many arcane & divine spell desc, animation, summons, effects; Mirror Image not prot from area-effect spells, Sleep allows wake if hit; patches joinable NPC spellbooks
INSTALL: Before AI-enhancing mods like SCS, conflicts with Divine Remix, "install before spell changing mods unless you want their spells"

25 Sword Coast Strategems v16
DOES: Race & class revs for monsters; Dispel Magic useful vs higher lvl spells; Mirror Image not immunity to area-effect spells; cleric-fighters use axes; more powerful Breach; creates vulnerability for Improved Inviso + Divination immunity; Breach dispels Iron Skin; Insect Plague spell countered by fire shielding; reduced magic arrow damage; adds Extra-Healing potion to priest stores; BG2 spells for BG1; faster bears; (allows PC char building from Level 0 up of NPCs upon joining;) kicked NPCs go to inns; NPCs accessible sooner;
shapeshifting rev to instant; remove blur from avatar wearing Displacer Cloak; stackable ankheg shells, winterwolf pelts, wyvern heads; Boo brought from quickslot to slot in inventory; Shar-Teel can't die in initial challenge fight; plenty of monster fixes; rogue, priest, mage AI revs; battle encounter enhancements
INSTALL: last or close to last, after any mods for quests, NPCs, or items; "wait at Inns" component incompatible with similar BG1 NPC component, so need to choose

26 Song and Silence v5 (*)
DOES: Opens alignment restriction for rogues; adds rogue merchant in Nashkell Carnival, adds rogue kits & kit revs (!!!)
INSTALL: Readme recommends install after Ashes of Embers "universal weapons"
and after Rogue Rebalancing

27 Rogue Rebalancing v438 (*) ($)
DOES: Revises rogue kits & skills toward PnP stats, allows 3 skill points in dual wield to all rogue, items added to BG2 world, (adds BG2 encounter,) revises reactions to witnessed theft 
INSTALL: After Song&Silence, SCS, Item Rev (Main Component Only), Spell Rev, 1PP, Oversight, UB, Divine Remix. Before Item Rev (everything else), SCS2, aTweaks, Ashes of Embers

28 Ashes of Embers v27 (*)
DOES: Only component that makes all weapons available to any class with restrictions
INSTALL: After any kit changers if using kits

X Divine Remix, v7
DOES: Reworks divine spellcasters for kits, alters and adds divine spells
INSTALL: After divine caster kit changers (Oversight, Spell Collection), Ashes of Embers, Unfinished Business; conflicts with Refinements

29 Item Revisions v2 (Part 2)
DOES: Global Component only: Spell casting in armor (opt 1); mvmt restrictions for armor (opt 1); revised shield stats & dual wield penalties to PnP;  new weapon dmg
INSTALL: After all mods that add or replace items

30 BG2 Tweakpack v9
DOES: Avatar mvmt & appearance rev, auto-pause dialogue, hide magic effect icons from portrait,  opens Cloakwood, breakable armor, reveal cities, XP cap removal,clubs ok for all classes, weapon style availability rev, thief skill in armor rev, open weapon proficiency system & pts, multiple prot items w magic armor, magic weapon bonus consistency, un-nerfec THAC0 & spell progress, spellcaster level bonus for low-level
spells, bags of holding, multiplayer kickout rev,  open summoning limit, max HP per level, max HP for creatures, unlimited gem stacks, NPC trigger rev, N NPCs happy at mid-reputation, rest anywhere, auto levelup on NPC join, BG2 stats for BG1 NPCs, Kagain 19 CON
INSTALL: Later because employs tweaks across whatever is in game at install, may conflict with Oversight's kits

31 aTweaks v330
DOES: Halforc infravision, ranged Spiritual Hammer spell, PnP dispel magic on spellcast magic prot, magic bonus for weapons adds to dmg also, mages get scroll creation, paladin disease immune, ranger animal empathy lvl bonus, dwarf/ gnome combat bonuses from PnP, stoneskin dispel rev, warrior & druid
abilities uninterruptible, level-affected bhaalspawn power, alignment detection spell rev, bardsong invisibility break, thief & bard idle auto behavior script, spell & item appearance rev, storage capacity limit, temple priest spell add
INSTALL: After everything except Infinity Animations & Level1NPCs

X Level1NPCs v1.5
DOES: Same as SCS's start of joined NPCs at Lvl 0 to control how they level up
INSTALL: After any kit adders or changers after Ashes of Embers weapon proficiency rules (to make sure mod incorporates the changes)

32 Spawn Randomizer v3
DOES: Enables selection of respawn settings
INSTALL: Can be installed any time, but last makes tweaking more easily

34 Infinity Animations v5
DOES: Restores BG1 animation & paper dolls to BG2 avatars & chars, improves & adds options for avatar animations &appearance
 
35 TutuGUI v18
INSTALL: Just before Widescreen

36 Widescreen v2.60
INSTALL: Last

37 Item Randomizer v6.2 (%)
DOES: Repositions an assortment of key magic items across BG1&2 to randomly selected stores, holes, NPCs, etc. Mode 1 randomizes every game but isn't working (according to Readme), so use Mode 2
INSTALL: Near last after any mod that removes or relocates items (to avoid duplication)

Modifié par Bhryaen, 22 décembre 2010 - 06:18 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...
DAMN this took a long time to work through! Days! Anyway how does this look? It's actually not thrown together carelessly despite the bulk of it. I based every choice of inclusion, manner of inclusion, and sequential inclusion position from research (returning repeatedly) into specific mod readmes.

It's easy to see you put a lot of work into creating this mod order. More than most people do.
However it does seem that at times you should also have taken a moment to think about whether you really want all these mods...

The Max HP per level idea is allowed by the "No Reloads Challenge" by permitting temporarily lowering the difficulty level in order to get it: I simply prevent myself from forgetting to turn it back up after levelling (which I've done so many a time.)

Just a small warning: If you have a barbarian in your team, his HP will be seriously messed up by this component.

Finch (BG1
NPC) v3


Mur'Neth (BG1
NPC) v10


Gavin (BG1
NPC) v8


WizWomJon (BG1
NPC)

Another small warning. In a party with 4 mod NPCs there will not be much banter between the NPCs. I appreciate that you installed content for more than just 5 NPCs, which means that you did not necessarily plan on going with these 4 at the same time, just thought I'd warn you.

28
Ashes of Embers v27 *
 
Neither
Only
component that makes all weapons available to any class with restrictions

If you had used Level1NPCs instead of NPC Kits, you'd have one mod less on your installation order. Won't be a problem, though.

30
BG2 Tweakpack v9
[...]clubs ok for all classes,

Do you really need this on top of Ashes of Ambers?

[igneous.sponge]

Well, well, Bhryaen, you have been thorough.

Bhryaen wrote...

Most frustratingly the readmes of two mods would directly contradict each other, the worst being Rogue Rebalancing and Song & Silence which each say to install after the other.

What you've got (i.e., RR after S&S) looks good.

Then you add the weapons provision component of Ashes of Embers which S&S says to install before it while R&R says to install after. (Again I let RR determine it.)

Yes, go with RR's recommendation. You'll want Ashes of Embers in this sort of position so it can patch all possible items, vanilla and mod-added.

The other issue is avatar changers. I saw Humanoid_Taifun used 1PP, but I'm not sure if it's simply impossible to include Moinesse and Infinity Animations simultaneously.

Yes, it's possible for them to co-exist, and your install order is correct. See this post for further reference.

Plus Item Revisions adds enhanced 1PP stuff apparently. I'm hoping someone has had experience with these and other mods enough to warn me off.

1PP and Item Revisions should be fine, I think, as long as you follow the guide in IR's readme.

I wanted to put Item Randomizer at the end because, well, the readme said to put it near there, but also because I might uninstall and reinstall it, and I don't want issues doing so. Apparently it doesn't randomize each game but only each install, so I figure I'll be doing that a bit...

Actually, with the Randomiser there are two possible modes of randomisation available. You can elect to randomise at install-time (the more comprehensive, albeit less flexible option) or at the beginning of each game (achieved with in-game scripting).

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 22 décembre 2010 - 02:07 .

[Bhryaen]

Sorry to all who perused my mod order list when it was an overlong jumble of text! Hopefully the more presentable edited version isn't too late. I was so tired afterward- both from days of compiling and researching and also a long day at work- I was like Prism completing my great work... "Soon my work will be done..." *collapse*

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
However it does seem that at times you should also have taken a moment to think about whether you really want all these mods...

This is a good point since I was like a kid in a candy store. Right now they all look interesting- at least for the components I singled out- so I want to try everything I got- and I have thought about each of them one-by-one, but experience will show which are really worth it. Thanks about the warning for barbarians. Is there no fix to get around it? That's one of the few kits I was considering trying.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Another small warning. In a party with 4 mod NPCs there will not be much banter between the NPCs. I appreciate that you installed content for more than just 5 NPCs, which means that you did not necessarily plan on going with these 4 at the same time, just thought I'd warn you..

I mostly wanted those for 1. the miniquests and/ or odd abilities associated with most of them, 2. the potential need for fodder. As for the latter, I suspect with so many game-toughening mods I may lose companions to chunking a lot. (I could disable that with a tweak too, but I'm trying to "keep it real" in a fantasy game...) I just checked the mod Crossmod Banter but the only one in my list of NPCs included is Gavin, and he's the least interesting. Thanks for the tip though! I'll just get one of those at a time...

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
If you had used Level1NPCs instead of NPC Kits, you'd have one mod less on your installation order. Won't be a problem, though.

It's not too late! Actually I was going to add Level1NPCs rather than substitute for NPC Kits, but I found that SCS apparently has the same mod component as Level1NPCs, so I figured I could leave out Level1NPCs. NPC Kits is the veritable same? More of a concern is that in the Level1NPCs readme it says:

"If you want to assign an
NPC a customized
kit, be sure to install Level 1 NPCs after the custom
kit mod. If you want to use Ashes of
Embers or another mod that changes the weapon proficiency rules,
then that should also go earlier so this mod will follow the changed
ruleset."

If I rely on NPCKits at the very start, it may not be able to incorporate the kit or proficiency changes (or may just sit there superfluously in my list). Also if I don't include Level1NPCs (as I was planning), instead relying on SCS's component (which already may not be as involved a mod as Level1NPCs that is devoted to it), and put SCS before AoE (as SCS suggests), then I put AoE after the effect I'm trying to get- contrary to the order that Level1NPCs recommends for the component. So I think I'll just drop NPC Kits as you suggest, leave out the similar SCS component, and install Level1NPCs near the end like it suggests.

There's still time: before I attempt the install, I'm still trying to find otherwise cosmetic content:
1. good alternative voicesets for my PC. Everything I've found out there so far is so 2nd rate... well, I could've made the same or better myself if I knew how. I thought there might be a port of IWD or the plethora of NWN voicesets or something. I found some Planescape: Torment ones, but they don't really apply well. The only good one I found is from the game Thief.
2. a better selection of NPC portraits to substitute for the Bioware ones. There are so few good ones for joinable NPCs and with Coran being one of my favorites, that clown photo has to go. But then I look at the mod site alternatives and can't believe I'd rather just stay with the clown.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
[...]clubs ok for all classes,
Do you really need this on top of Ashes of Ambers?

This is also true, yes. Much of what I left in the mod desc is simply notes to myself. I figured I might have to lose AoE due to mod conflicts, so I wanted to be able to remember where that component was from in order to be able to do a mod re-install that included it.

igneous.sponge wrote...
Actually, with the Randomiser there are two possible modes of
randomisation available. You can elect to randomise at install-time (the
more comprehensive, albeit less flexible option) or at the beginning of
each game (achieved with in-game scripting).

I thought so too and was happy to do Mode 1, but then when I double (quadruple, etc.) checked the mods, I noticed a line in a readme somewhere saying that Mode 1 wasn't functioning properly at this time. I just tried looking for it to quote it, but the IRandom readme seems to assert full functionality to Mode 1, albeit with the 2-3 min initial wait time. Have you used it to see if it works? Maybe I was reading the wrong readme... uh oh

[Irrbloss]

Bhryaen wrote...

% May be issues due to Hard Times item relocations. Issue not
addressed in readmes of Item Revisions or Item Randomizer

As long as you install Hard Times before Item Randomiser I'm not aware of any issues.
There's nothing that refers to Hard Times specfically. Rather, Hard Times is lumped together with all the other mods that (re)move items in the Item Randomiser readme (where it says Item Randomiser should be installed after such mods).

Bhryaen wrote...

I thought so too and was happy to do Mode 1, but then when I double (quadruple, etc.) checked the mods, I noticed a line in a readme somewhere saying that Mode 1 wasn't functioning properly at this time. I just tried looking for it to quote it, but the IRandom readme seems to assert full functionality to Mode 1, albeit with the 2-3 min initial wait time. Have you used it to see if it works? Maybe I was reading the wrong readme... uh oh

Mode 1 should work just fine. Maybe your confusion is due to Item Randomiser's limited functionality on the BG1 engine. Mode 1 does not work on the BG1 engine, but if you use Tutu or BGT it works as well as on BG2.

[suttree]

Thought I'd chip in a brief comment as I enjoy many of the mods listed
(waiting to start my own no-reload when IRv3 is released)
*Be sure to include the latest hotfixes for IR/SR from the forum at G3
*re: IR spellcasting in armor: There is presently a conflict with SCS that prevents AI clerics from casting in heavy armor. I suggest option 4 (no penalties) and appropriate role-play until this is fixed in SCS.
*Try to restrict spell tweaks to SR only (ignore similar components from SCS/aTweaks). Simplicity: in SCS (esp. w/ SR) rather obscure magical trivia can play a major role in some battles (does breach work against rakshasa/liches? which anti-magic spell is best in situation X?). Debuffing mages efficiently can be a chore, and it's easier to problem solve in a difficult battle if you restrict yourself to a single spell framework. The SR forum is a good resource.
*IR is designed to work without the item randomizer - the mod authors build items/lore with specific locations in mind. Many items are moved about for balance/role-play and items will be very different (read much more interesting and balanced) than vanilla. No need for item randomizer if you are new to IR.
*Consider installing revised potions form the IR forum. I very rarely used potions in SCS until I installed this component.
*I recommend Level1NPCS over the similar component in SCS

[edit] I recommend SR over DR for stability

Modifié par suttree, 22 décembre 2010 - 10:37 .

[Irrbloss]

suttree wrote...

*IR is designed to work without the item randomizer - the mod authors build items/lore with specific locations in mind. Many items are moved about for balance/role-play and items will be very different (read much more interesting and balanced) than vanilla. No need for item randomizer if you are new to IR.

Admittedly it's been a while since I looked at Item Revisions, but last I checked Item Randomiser moved a lot more items than Item Revisions, even if you don't consider BG1. Then, of course, there's the bit about Item Randomiser randomising the items, rather than just moving them.

[suttree]

Irrbloss wrote...
 but last I checked Item Randomiser moved a lot more items than Item Revisions, even if you don't consider BG1.

Correct.  Based on my experience, however, a player new to Item Revisions may lose out if he/she installs Item Randomizer on a first playthrough.  I note that the mod authors design items/lore with a particular location in mind.  Items are designed (and intentionally placed) for balance and role-play. 

Item Randomizer appeals because it is boring to find exactly the same item in exactly the same place after multiple playthroughs.  A player is tempted to meta-game. 

  Since a particular item in IR may  be very different from it's equivalent in vanilla, a first playthrough of IR can be entirely novel, even without the randomizer installed.    

  Summary: I wouldn't recommend installing the randomizer on vanilla until after playing the game at least once.  Similarly, I woudn't recommend installing the randomizer on IR, until after playing it at least once.

[Bhryaen]

I found it perplexing that most of the install order lists didn't even mention Item & Spell Revisions or Item Randomizer- three of the most tricky mods out there- although at least the first two were mentioned specifically in a few other mods readmes regarding compatibility. The two item mods don't mention each other either.

Irrbloss wrote...
Maybe your confusion is due to Item Randomiser's limited functionality on the BG1 engine. Mode 1 does not work on the BG1 engine, but if you use Tutu or BGT it works as well as on BG2.

I wish I could find that instance given that I started planning according to it. It's also mentioned that Mode 1 conflicts with Dungeon-Be-Gone and Skip Candlekeep- whereas Mode 2 doesn't- but I wasn't planning on either of those ever. Dunno... What igneous.sponge said about in-game scripting is something I didn't see in the readme either, but maybe that's the way forward for Item Randomizer, so I'll be looking into it.

suttree wrote...
(waiting to start my own no-reload when IRv3 is released)

Why? What's in IRv3 that's worth the wait? And how long is the wait...?

suttree wrote...
*Be sure to include the latest hotfixes for IR/SR from the forum at G3
*Consider installing revised potions form the IR forum. I very rarely used potions in SCS until I installed this component.
*re: IR spellcasting in armor: There is presently a conflict with SCS that prevents AI clerics from casting in heavy armor. I suggest option 4 (no penalties) and appropriate role-play until this is fixed in SCS.

Thanks for these tips! The forums are very helpful! I'm already finding even more mod conflict issues with other mods... So install order doesn't prevent the latter issue? Maybe I should just scrap the cast-in-armor component entirely in the meantime. I don't want the bug, but to have the option of a fighter-mage or fighter-mage-thief who casts in armor with no penalties is a bit too... irresistible.

suttree wrote...
*IR is designed to work without the item randomizer - the mod authors build items/lore with specific locations in mind. Many items are moved about for balance/role-play and items will be very different (read much more interesting and balanced) than vanilla. No need for item randomizer if you are new to IR.

I hate to leave Item Randomizer out, but I will if I need to. That was one of the things I was most looking forward to. To not know where the Boots of Speed are- or Greywolf's sword, or the Boots of Stealth- returns my approach to the game back to when I first started playing and everything was a new discovery. The real issue is that even if IR (Item Rev) does the same thing as Item Rand and even more interestingly, the problem with IR v2's main component (which deals with item desc. and characteristics- and I assume location too) is that it apparently isn't even registered by Tutu, according to the readme. "The main component will not affect Tutu items at this time, but support is planned." (I don't agree with the reputation-doesn't-affect-store-prices part of the main component either.) I'm only trying to use the 1PP revisions of the main component- at least until I go to BGT instead, and actually even that might not work because maybe the main component doesn't come as an individuated package. SCS is so nice the way it makes every modification a separate component, but I'm not sure whether IR or other mods will allow me to pick and choose on each separate tweak. It does seem from the forum that IRv3 will be compatible with Tutu. By then I'll be using BGT! hehe

suttree wrote...
*Try to restrict spell tweaks to SR only (ignore similar components from SCS/aTweaks). Simplicity: in SCS (esp. w/ SR) rather obscure magical trivia can play a major role in some battles (does breach work against rakshasa/liches? which anti-magic spell is best in situation X?). Debuffing mages efficiently can be a chore, and it's easier to problem solve in a difficult battle if you restrict yourself to a single spell framework. The SR forum is a good resource.

This is another tough one. The SCS readme makes it clear that its own spell revisions are incorporated into the spellcaster IA- i.e., they'll behave as if the SCS tweak is in place and try to cast it as such. (Might be fun to watch them flounder about without it though...) Are the SR revs so similar that I can leave out the SCS ones and get the same results? It's a scripting question as well as spell capability one. The SR forum pinned comments compare/ contrast the two entirely- and clearly not all spell revs are the same between them (the ones that are will be left out of my SCS install though, thanks!)- but it doesn't mention anything about what happens to the SCS-affected gameworld when SCS-specific spells are suppressed, nor what happens to the game's general spell use if SCS overwrites SR. At least it's easy if need be to say no to spell revs from SCS and aTweaks as they come one at a time.

[suttree]

Why? What's in IRv3 that's worth the wait? And how long is the wait...?

Discussion on the forum suggests before the new year.  Planned changes here:
http://forums.gibber...showtopic=18059

suttree wrote...
*re: IR spellcasting in armor: There is presently a conflict with SCS that prevents AI clerics from casting in heavy armor. I suggest option 4 (no penalties) and appropriate role-play until this is fixed in SCS.

So install order doesn't prevent the latter issue? Maybe I should just scrap the cast-in-armor component entirely in the meantime. I don't want the bug, but to have the option of a fighter-mage or fighter-mage-thief who casts in armor with no penalties is a bit too... irresistible.

Description of the bug here:
http://forums.gibber...ndpost&p=178764

Agreed - if you can't resist the temptation, don't install the component.  Or stick with option 1 and accept that some AI clerics will be sub-optimal.

suttree wrote...
That was one of the things I was most looking forward to. To not know where the Boots of Speed are- or Greywolf's sword, or the Boots of Stealth- returns my approach to the game back to when I first started playing and everything was a new discovery. 

With this clarification, it sounds like you might want the randomizer after all.  While some items are moved (moreso in v3 it seems), IR leaves many items in their original location - the items just look different from their vanilla equivalent.  EX. Greywolf will still have a magic sword, except it will have a name, lore, a custom .bam, and slightly different properties.  The boots of stealth aren't moved, but they have a backstory and proprties inspired by that story. 

Irbloss' comment is correct - the randomizer moves more items and randomizes.  What makes the game fresh for you?  On my first playthrough, I found the modded items to add sufficient variety to the game; I appreciated the effort of the mod authors in designing/re-allocating items for reasons of balance/role-play.  I couldn't meta-game because I had no idea what a particular item would look like EX. a vanilla long sword might be a bastard sword in IR.  I still had to "treasure hunt" because I could never be sure if a new item had been added or moved. 

It remains, given your comment, that the randomizer might be preferable.  I only wanted to suggest that the IR authors design some items intending them to be found at a particular location. 

Quote from the mod author:
"IR takes into account where and when an item is found, in fact item randomisation mods may not work so well with IR (even less in V3 where we'll handle stores and item allocations)."
http://forums.gibber...ndpost&p=167771

This is another tough one. The SCS readme makes it clear that its own spell revisions are incorporated into the spellcaster IA- i.e., they'll behave as if the SCS tweak is in place and try to cast it as such. (Might be fun to watch them flounder about without it though...) Are the SR revs so similar that I can leave out the SCS ones and get the same results? It's a scripting question as well as spell capability one. The SR forum pinned comments compare/ contrast the two entirely- and clearly not all spell revs are the same between them (the ones that are will be left out of my SCS install though, thanks!)- but it doesn't mention anything about what happens to the SCS-affected gameworld when SCS-specific spells are suppressed, nor what happens to the game's general spell use if SCS overwrites SR. At least it's easy if need be to say no to spell revs from SCS and aTweaks as they come one at a time.

I assume you are referring to the pinned comments here:
http://forums.gibber...showtopic=15059

These mods work very well together: selecting only SR's system will not reduce the effectiveness of SCS mages - in fact, it makes them slightly more dangerous ex. high-level skull trap.  The differences between them will affect how *you* deal with enemy mages in bg2.  ex. breach vs pierce shield or  which anti-magic spell you use.   Don't expect to fight rashasa or liches at low level.  On my first attempt at playing these mods, I wish I had kept things simpler - it's easier to turn to only one reference when you start fighting high level mages in BG2 - it's a pain to consult your WEIDU log, recall exactly which choices you made, and then figure things out.

Not mentioned in the forum post: The SR spell "Protection from Missiles" already works like SCS "Make Protection from Normal Missiles affect magical projectiles" - this component is redundant (and I think makes the duration different than that listed in the SR spell description).

One exception:  I do suggest installing individual versions of spell immunity in SCS2.  Enemy contingencies/sequencers will include SI: Abj, SI:Div  and it feels wrong that you can't do the same.

You have a similar situation with SCS and IR - ex. installing both masterwork weapons and fine weapons just feels weird.  For sake of consistency, on a first install of all three IR/SR/SCS I recommend letting IR do item stuff, SR do spell stuff, and SCS do AI stuff.   On later installs, you can nit-pick about exactly which mod does things better.  This mostly affects the choices you make in SCS since, as an AI mod, it is installed late in the install order and will overwrite or add to IR/SR.   That said, I've found these mods to work very well together and the mod authors seem to cross-post frequently at G3.

hope this helps
[edit: added links]

Modifié par suttree, 23 décembre 2010 - 04:33 .

[Bhryaen]

I'm attempting the install... and stymied by the second thing to do on the Tutu install list: WeiDU. How do I install it? I've downloaded it. It's extractable. There's a WeiDU.exe file. But all it does is work WeiDU, not install it. The WeiDU readme online is about using WeiDU not installing it. I checked online and found what seems like a decent install help page which advises this:

Open up the zip file in your archiving program (WinAce, WinZip, WinRAR, etc), and then just extract it to your Desktop for now. (WeiDU, when extracted, creates it's own folder called WeiDU, so don't worry about creating a folder to unzip it to) So there now should be a folder called "WeiDU" on your Desktop.

forums.pocketplane.net/index.php

There are two issues here. 1. What is the "it" I'm supposed to extract? The .exe file? 2. There's nothing whatsoever that I put on my desktop that auto-creates a WeiDU folder. I even simply took everything at once to my desktop... and got a cluttered desktop.

Should I just put it all in a folder and stick it in my new Tutu game folder? Is that enough or is there something else to do in order to set it up properly?

Modifié par Bhryaen, 23 décembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...

I'm attempting the install... and stymied by the second thing to do on the Tutu install list: WeiDU. How do I install it? I've downloaded it. It's extractable. There's a WeiDU.exe file. But all it does is work WeiDU, not install it. The WeiDU readme online is about using WeiDU not installing it.

I seem to remember having gone through the same process and wondered why the 'readme' for WEIDU said nothing about installation.  I think all you need to do is extract the archive to your game folder - WEIDU will then recognise future changes you make.  You can check that this is being done properly by looking at your game folder after the first install you make - you will find a text file called WEIDU that is a log of all changes made to the game (by the end of the install process this log will get quite long given how many mods you've chosen).

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...
This is another tough one. The SCS readme makes it clear that its own spell revisions are incorporated into the spellcaster IA- i.e., they'll behave as if the SCS tweak is in place and try to cast it as such. (Might be fun to watch them flounder about without it though...) Are the SR revs so similar that I can leave out the SCS ones and get the same results? It's a scripting question as well as spell capability one. The SR forum pinned comments compare/ contrast the two entirely- and clearly not all spell revs are the same between them (the ones that are will be left out of my SCS install though, thanks!)- but it doesn't mention anything about what happens to the SCS-affected gameworld when SCS-specific spells are suppressed, nor what happens to the game's general spell use if SCS overwrites SR. At least it's easy if need be to say no to spell revs from SCS and aTweaks as they come one at a time.

I am not sure SR would overwrite the spells of enemies. In any case, when I had SR installed, SCS2 automatically skipped all Spell Components during installation. (but don't worry too much about Breach and the like. This being a Tutu installation, you can create an entirely new thread and installation once you reach BG2).

Bhryaen wrote...
I'm attempting the install... and stymied
by the second thing to do on the Tutu install list: WeiDU. How do I
install it? [...]

I think you are misunderstanding. WeiDU mods do not require you to install WeiDU. The .exe you downloaded is almost exclusively for modders (creators of mods).
To install a mod, download the same. You should acquire a file that reads something like "Setup-[thisisthemod'sname].exe", a folder named [thisisthemod'sname], and maybe a readme. Put at least the first 2 into the relevant folder (normally your BG2 folder) and execute the .exe.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 23 décembre 2010 - 09:53 .

[igneous.sponge]

Bhryaen wrote...

I'm attempting the install... and stymied by the second thing to do on the Tutu install list: WeiDU. How do I install it?

You don't. WeiDU doesn't need to be installed. (Heh, I guess this is the part where we go 'NOOOO!' )

Um... alright, I'm not sure how to best explain this to a newbie, but I'll take a stab.

WeiDU is the program by which mods achieve their modifications, but it's not GUI-driven and it doesn't need to be installed to a system. It's simply a small, stand-alone command-line tool, and takes the form of the WeiDU executable (WeiDU.exe). This executable is responsible for loading and modifying game resources, but it can't do this by itself. It needs to take instructions on what to modify—and these instructions are written by modders.

Thus, the chain of modification goes:

    Code provided by modder -> WeiDU executable -> Changes applied to game.

Because all mods need WeiDU to install their modifications, they are all packaged with a WeiDU executable (WeiDU.exe). For mods, however, the executable is renamed from 'WeiDU.exe' to 'setup-*modname*.exe'—so that when you click on it, the executable knows to look for instructions to install *modname*.

In short, you don't need to install WeiDU, because WeiDU is the installer. As a player, all you need worry about is downloading and installing the mods, themselves.

To rehash what H_T said, when you download a mod, it will usually come with a few things, but it will always come with the following, at least...

• The WeiDU executable, renamed to 'setup-*modname*.exe'.
• A mod TP2 file. This is a text file full of code, written by the creator of the mod, which passes to WeiDU the mod's install instructions.
• A mod folder. This contains all the other resources the mod needs to install (e.g., spell or item files), and it may also hold the TP2 file. Usually, there will be documentation for the mod, here, too.

All this stuff needs to go in your main game folder. So, for the sake of example, if you wanted to install a mod which turns Sarevok pink to your Tutu game, you'd want to move...

• setup-sarepink.exe
• setup-sarepink.tp2
• sarepink folder

... to your Tutu install folder. To start the setup process, simply double-click on setup-sarepink.exe and follow the instructions from the command prompt which appears on-screen. For uninstalling the mod, you do the same thing.

Did I miss anything?

Should I just put it all in a folder and stick it in my new Tutu game folder? Is that enough or is there something else to do in order to set it up properly?

No, you don't need any of that, actually. They are resources for modders, so feel free to get rid of them. The only thing you may want to hold onto is 'WeiDU.exe'. Since you've just downloaded the most recent version of WeiDU, you may want to stick the executable in your Tutu folder, so that the other .exe's you're going to accumulate can auto-update themselves. But even this isn't strictly necessary.

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 23 décembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[Bhryaen]

Dang, I should've posted my "progress." (Two steps back, three steps forward.) Due mostly to impatience I did manage to figure out that WeiDU didn't need an install- or at least I simply gave up trying, stuck it in the game folder like that tutorial seemed to be indicating (though through a different method), and it left it successfully. Grond0's post clinched it for me, though I'd pushed on. But I do appreciate the info! It clarifies some things I've been reading... Nothing like a well-addressed NOOOO!

I only got up to having installed 1PP before I got curious and decided to stop and check out the game. Decidedly different (better) than Vanilla but I had my first CTD crash already on the east side of Candlekeep when my combat "teachers" started attacking me. Actually it didn't really CTD because the BG window was reduced to a white box in the upper left corner of the desktop and wouldn't close itself without Task Manager. (I did initially see briefly appear a screen calling for the game disk for some reason, but reinserting TotSC didn't help.) So I deleted everything and tried again, this time leaving out Item Revisions' entirely until the "Part 2" comes in (though I don't know if that was the issue at all) and the more obscure NPC mod WizWomJon, as well as Degreenifier since apparently it's already bundled in EasyTutu (and NPCKits is already off the list). I also was less click-happy for component install choices. I didn't test it again but went straight through everything (and will probably do it all over again because I forsee other difficulties with mod order such as AoE's weapon tweak needing to be after the tweak mods.) After 1PP I also left out Song & Silence (*sigh*) & Spawn Rand. (Again impatience ruled given how long these installs take!) I noticed in RR & aTweaks that I was getting failures to install based on .CRE files being "corrupted," so I assume that SCS's creature revs are blocking further revs (two of the files are called CMBEAR01 and 02, and had I installed the "faster bears" component,) but that's not necessarily a problem.

I won't know much until I playtest it again, and I had to come to work before I could start a new game. I did, however, discover on game startup that the BG window is much too small for the screen. It's clearly fullscreen since there is no desktop, but the BG window area is a smallish square (albeit in proper dimensions now, unlike unmodded) is the middle of a black background. I tried reducing the dimensions of the Widescreen mod but it threw everything off, so I reinstalled again & restored the dimensions I'd originally given (both values in the 1000s- exactly what my screen uses) and it reverted to a functional but smallish. I just found at the Pocket Plane download site, however, that TutuGUI doesn't work on anything higher than 1024X768, so... might be the problem...

As to "when I get to BG2," Mr. Humanoid_Taifun, my singular goal right now is to have a bugfree (i.e., bug-minimized & playable) modded BG1. If I can bring down Sarevok relatively techno-hasslefree a few times, then I'll start pestering BGT enthusiasts directly after!

suttree wrote...
On my first attempt at playing these mods, I wish I had kept things simpler

I have this concern myself and have taken your advice on a number of things: went with the spellcasting in armor bit (and will just have to keep remembering if I've switched out of armor before I go casting) so that smarter priests can clobber me more easily (just what I always wanted)- hurrah!- and also look forward to IRv3... before I implement the main component at all, that is. And when I do, I'm hoping IRv3 has a facimile Item Randomizer in it (or a switch to prevent its own). Did you see the to-do list for IRv3 though? It's nowhere near done to the point of release by Dec 31. I forgot to include the potions fix actually, but I like the idea that alchemy isn't the same as magic and thus potion effects shouldn't be dispellable. I'll have to figure out where that goes in the mod order. With the Potions mod, maybe I can make some. hehe I left out all the SCS spells that were duplicates, but I don't think it matters either way given how the mods seem to handle it. SR itself just says, "Install it before all mods that change spells unless you want their versions," which says to me that it's fine either way, just a matter of version preference. SCS2 apparently is well-integrated with SR, but SCS isn't. I did cut out most spell-affecting tweaks from other mods too in deference to SR- and there were more than I'd anticipated- but actually the list of SR-affected spells isn't so extensive. There's a Monster Summoning component I left out of BG2 Tweakpack (I think) which would've been fine since it's not even mentioned by SR. [EDIT] Nevermind- SR does address MS- just found it... Anyway as you see, your input did help!

I've been building for a run on the no-reload thread, but I think I'm going to reload and reload as much as it takes for one go in order to see just how hard SCS (& DH, etc.) is- as well as how well the mods carry through- before I go taking that risk. I don't know if I have Grond0's stamina to go through so many chars... I get attached...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 23 décembre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Bhryaen]

suttree wrote...
What makes the game fresh for you?  On my first playthrough, I found the modded items to add sufficient variety to the game; I appreciated the effort of the mod authors in designing/re-allocating items for reasons of balance/role-play.  I couldn't meta-game because I had no idea what a particular item would look like EX. a vanilla long sword might be a bastard sword in IR.  I still had to "treasure hunt" because I could never be sure if a new item had been added or moved. 

That's a good question though. I did want something qualitatively different from the BG1 Gameworld when I reinstalled it a few weeks ago, but I didn't know anything about the mod options. I'd still have tried plenty without an Item Randomizer (hence my temporary return to DSotSC) but it appeals to me not so much for adding variety or keeping things fresh, but for keeping my approach from being bullheaded.

On every run through BG1 I memorize routes and plan a more efficient run the next time. Candlekeep is done nearly exactly the same every time, and the first part of outside Candlekeep is usually similar: run east to get the ogre's belt, run south to ransack Beregost, south again to get the boots, south again to ransack Nashkell & carnival, south again to get a nice sword and gems. Then west one to get better leather. Then there is a build toward selling to get magic armor from Beregost's smithy and xp in order to win a different pair of boots in Cloakwood. And so on. My route and efforts are based on the items I'm aiming toward. BG should be named Quest for Speed.

Without knowing where to find the key items (but knowing they're out there) there just isn't that safety net of sure-thing finds or pre-ordained item acquisition route. Since it could end up in BG City somewhere, I have to just plan for a different experience. I'll have to improvise more and maybe learn a number of new tricks. I tend to solo, and that might not be possible anymore. There will be a LOT more running around with hostiles at my heels, a lot fewer one-backstab victories, There does happen to be some charm in the way the creative engineers behind BG1 placed things, and altered items and descriptions are nifty, but the modded stuff that affects my gameplay drastically (through clever twists rather than heavy-handed monster madness) is a lot more meaningful as a change. (DSotSC takes the monster madness route.) BG's game environment and story are already the draw for me, so any interference in the storyline or plot revelation will inevitably feel like an unworthy imposition to me.

That said, I never did take issue with an earlier comment on this thread with Son of Imoen concerning an easy road to Nashkell:

As for why Tutu instead of BGT...
2. the difficulty factor: when I tried out BGT, I often encounter 1 or 2 gibberlings accompanied by 1 or 2 xvarts on my way to FA Inn and Beregost, so that the road wasn't fraught with danger. But I like it to be dangerous. The fact that (with Tutu) every step into the wilderniss could mean your death (encountering gibberlings 6 at a time) when you start (and subsequently growing in power) is THE big fun of BG1. BGT spoils that for me: I could go to Nashkel without ever having to fear for my life or reload...

I have the feeling that modded BGT can be just as hard, but I actually prefer that there is some area that just isn't so heavily targetted by the baddies- or at least that there's a good reason that it isn't. Another mod has the option for adding Flaming Fist soldiers to the Beregost area the way Nashkell & the FAInn get their own soldiers, and I opted for that because with all the monsters surrounding Beregost, why not just plunder Beregost? It isn't just Tazok's bandits raiding travelers. It's nearly everything in the game. And where are these xvarts and half-ogres and gibberlings coming from?? The xvarts are a long way from home!

Besides, if my little 2nd lvl char could wipe out nearly everyone in the town single-handedly including Silke (with some luck), then why wouldn't a pack of ogres or gnolls or hobgoblings or vampire wolves even xvarts do it? Why bother with blackmail and an iron shortage? Just pool your bandit camp and invade! No contest! The town should already be overrun rather than having multiple successful inns and shops- not to mention the economic crunch from bad iron. I'm making more of a story-based argument than technical, of course, and in the unreal world of BG, it hardly matters (like complaining that the androids in I-Robot should be a little less powerful), and I don't mind gibberlings offering me their XP, cheap gems, and free spells, but it just seemed somehow correct to have an easier time from Candlekeep to FAInn or to Beregost to Nashkell. (With SCS bears are more dangerous than wolves!)

Anyway I thought I'd pipe that in while I'm waiting for the workday to get over so I can reinstall mods a 3rd time... Back to mod research...

[igneous.sponge]

Bhryaen wrote...

I noticed in RR & aTweaks that I was getting failures to install based on .CRE files being "corrupted," so I assume that SCS's creature revs are blocking further revs (two of the files are called CMBEAR01 and 02, and had I installed the "faster bears" component,) but that's not necessarily a problem.

Yes, Rogue Rebalancing and aTweaks have built-in creature validity checks, so if they're reporting those .cre files as corrupted it probably means another mod has hosed them somewhere down the line. If you're ever feeling more investigative, you can track changes to files—and, thus, narrow down the offending mod—by performing something called a change-log. There is more information available here, but if you need something more legible I can give you full instructions.

I did, however, discover on game startup that the BG window is much too small for the screen. It's clearly fullscreen since there is no desktop, but the BG window area is a smallish square (albeit in proper dimensions now, unlike unmodded) is the middle of a black background. I tried reducing the dimensions of the Widescreen mod but it threw everything off, so I reinstalled again & restored the dimensions I'd originally given (both values in the 1000s- exactly what my screen uses) and it reverted to a functional but smallish.

Yeah, you're going to have to make sacrifices in this regard. Are you using an LCD screen? Unfortunately, most modern LCD screens are pretty crappy—they're only able to produce a sharp picture at their native resolution—so you'll have to compromise between looks and functionality when playing. Some possible approaches...

• Set the game's resolution to that of your monitor, as you've already done. I've found this horribly unwieldy on my display, though. Many portions of the interface don't scale well, functionally, with increased resolution, in my opinion.
• Set the game's resolution lower than that of your monitor, but disable scaling. The end result is a game window in native resolution... but if you're playing full-screen you'll get black bars, and if you're playing in windowed mode you'll see the rest of the desktop. This is what I do, most of the time, switching between full-screen and windowed as whim dost take me.
• Set the game's resolution lower than that of your monitor, but with the same aspect ratio and scaled to full-screen... but then you get a blurry picture.

As you can see, there is no optimal solution.

[...] I'm hoping IRv3 has a facimile Item Randomizer in it (or a switch to prevent its own).

There probably isn't much hope for that, I'm afraid.

To be honest, however, I don't think you need to worry about conflicts between the Item Randomiser and Item Revisions. For example, even if Greywolf were to get his specifically lore-tailored whatever given to someone else, it would be a minor conceptual incompatibility, at worst.

I forgot to include the potions fix actually, but I like the idea that alchemy isn't the same as magic and thus potion effects shouldn't be dispellable. I'll have to figure out where that goes in the mod order.

I like the look of Revised Potions, too, although some of the changes are a tad on the overpowered side, I think. That said, I haven't yet had the opportunity to test it out.

As for install order, since the mod replaces (overwrites) all vanilla potions, much like IR's main component, I'd hazard to guess it would be best to stick it in a similar position.

SCS2 apparently is well-integrated with SR, but SCS isn't.

From what I've read, I think it's the other way around. SCS's A.I. upgrades actually take into account the various changes introduced by Spell Revisions, SCSII less so.

I've been building for a run on the no-reload thread, but I think I'm going to reload and reload as much as it takes for one go in order to see just how hard SCS (& DH, etc.) is- as well as how well the mods carry through- before I go taking that risk. I don't know if I have Grond0's stamina to go through so many chars... I get attached...

Well, with Hard Times, SCS, SR, IR, and the Randomiser it should certainly be quite... 'different,' to say the least.

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:01 .

[Bhryaen]

Once again I failed to post in time... I did already "resolve" the widescreen issue along similar lines to what you suggested, igneous.sponge. I tried the game at 1024X768 only to find that it too was too small on the screen, so I found an option to reduce my monitor's widescreen to 1360X768 and then changed the Widescreen mod to the same, and it maxxed the BG window (at least to the highest possible Y value). I much prefer my regular desktop being 1920X1080, but this suffices for playing BG, I suppose. Actually, even with TutuGUI to "restore" BG1's format, this BG2-based format seems to insist on placing a large boundary around all screens other than the area screen (i.e., char creation, inventory, etc) so that it shrinks the usable portion of the window for no reason- not even aesthetic. BG1 Vanilla expanded every screen to the max, so I didn't need to squint when I made char creation rolls... Another screen issue is the way opening containers makes the entire window "jump" as if the bar for container inventory slots is inserted at the wrong screen location. *sigh* Maybe I should start posting on specific mod forums all my gripes... but I just want to play!

It seems the three mods where the .CRE corruption is noted are RR, aTweaks, & IA (of those I installed). I'd test by simply creating a folder to reinstall everything but without SCS, but, well... I just want to play! *grumble, grumble* Maybe later when, as you say, I'm "feeling more investigative..." <_<

Speaking of Item Randomizer, I just tried it again and it failed repeatedly to install. It's so close to the end of the install list that I started to faint, especially since the changes I made differently than previous installs were so specific-component-related that I didnt' know where to begin to figure it out, though the error message mentioned a "dabron.CRE," so... After all my wrangling about items, I'd be going without the randomizer after all... but then I reinstalled it and (inexplicably) it worked without error. I probably should've saved a copy of the randomizer logger so I could send it to the modder, but I was more interested in deleting than archiving...

The other thing I didn't mention about the Randomizer that I like is the option to give every single targetted item a % chance of not being swapped out. I put it at 15% (apparently to torture myself with the improbable possibility (vain hope) that Greywolf's fabled sword MIGHT be there...)

I like the look of Revised Potions, too, although some of the changes
are a tad on the overpowered side, I think. That said, I haven't yet had
the opportunity to test it out.

I was actually right at installing IR when I found your post, and, having forgotten about the potions mod again, I went to investigate. They do seem overpowered, almost as if trying to swing the advantage pendulum back specifically to players in SCS, so that concerned me. I thought it was just a mod to make all potion effects non-dispellable, but its like a comprehensive Potions Revision (Upgrade) and, with it still in Beta, I decided to just skip it. Besides, I'd have to research more... and I just want to play!

From what I've read, I think it's the other way around. SCS's A.I.
upgrades actually take into account the various changes introduced by
Spell Revisions, SCSII less so.

SCS does? Hm, I thought I read that SCS2 did. That forum page that suttree mentioned shows SCS's modder post a reply note that simply said it's all resolved in SCS2, leaving us SCS folks to simply make our own decisions about how to accomodate spell disparities. Maybe I missed something... I do that...

Well, with Hard Times, SCS, SR, IR, and the Randomiser it should certainly be quite... 'different,' to say the least.

I'm starting to feel almost guilty not playing it no-reload now. I used to feel ok because I attributed to my char the ability of the hero in the movie "Next" who could fumble about in the immediate future until he found the right way to go... Now, well, let's just say I did do one test with the previous mod build and died to an unexpected adversary in Candlekeep already *sigh* then stumbled into two (one just isn't enough) dread wolves at Level 1 in the first area. Surely there's SOMEthing I can kill out there other than Carbos?!! Anyway here I go again...

[suttree]

Bhryaen wrote...

From what I've read, I think it's the other way around. SCS's A.I.
upgrades actually take into account the various changes introduced by
Spell Revisions, SCSII less so.

SCS does? Hm, I thought I read that SCS2 did.

Igneous is correct - SCS AI accounts for SR spells lvls 1-5.  
I'm curious to know what prebuffing option you used and if you allowed BG2 style casting  - beware Silke