207 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Bhryaen wrote...
Damn... I thought maybe the Worldmap mod or something showed all areas.

It does, it just doesn't allow you to visit them.

What a tease then! I think after several real days of exploring BG2 it would be fun to go visit Beregost again or something, especially if I recognize only at that point that there was another quest I'd forgotten from BG1 days.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Bhryaen wrote...
Hard Times is very frustrating on this ground. I really like the mod- enough that I don't want to proceed without it. It almost feels like cheese not to use it.

How about replacing it with a number of mods?

Now you want me to put even more mods in! Nooooo!

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Item Revisions can take care of overpowered items (if you want it to), SCS has a component that removes unrealistically helpful stuff from containers (like all the ammunition), Aurora's Shoes And Boots can make buying stuff a bit more difficult, and Item Randomizer can be left as the only mod to randomize items.

1. The component I least like about Hard Times is the item neuterer which makes a 3-charge Wand of Fire less useful than a 5-pack of bottle bombs, so I'd rather not let IR do that too. Plus IR's main component is another of those bundled mods, including among a number of things removal of the reputation bonus for stores. Why wouldn't a town be happy to reduce a little for their hero? If IR would let those components- including 1PP avatar meddling that I'd have to integrate properly- be separate from the Core and selectable individually, I might consider it. A further "item revision" aspect exclusive to Hard Times is its effects on all normal metal items, making armor, weapons, and (I think) shields prone to breaking. IR doesn't do that.

2. I didn't see the SCS container component on several reinstalls (though it wouldn't surprise me that I overlooked it), but if I were to do something with containers it would be to remove all jewelry, gems, and gold, not the otherwise cheap arrows that are only found in small bundles anyway. Why would no one think to look there but me, particularly town beggars... or anyone think to leave them there in the first place... other than myself who uses outside containers as stash points... I'd probably remove most treasure from containers in the upper floors and first lower floor of Durlag's Tower too given the supposed constant adventurer-looting there. I presume this is a similar reason that all the trapped and locked containers of the Thieves' Guild are empty. Secret holes like the rock in the woods for a simple +1 Prot Ring or the remote rockface wall for the Fire Resist Ring make sense to me, however, even while the Ring of Wizardry is a bit much for where it is though. In sum, I don't see a blanket solution. Of course on my first game I noticed the diamond in the tree and +1 Prot & Fire Resist Ring on my own by accident, and that was a very fun discovery. In Hard Times I "discover" a cheap gem, a scroll of Find Familiar, and something else that looks like an "M&M Enterprises" business card (from the movie in "Catch-22"). I don't think any mod does it like Hard Times.

3. Aurora's doesn't have a storyline basis. Hard Times only makes the Chap 1-4 stores of BG1 tougher- and not just due to costliness of items and hotel visits (except for peasant accomodations which, in a well-kept inn in the middle of a city doesn't make much sense either)- the magic items are removed from the inventory, some apparently for good. (Maybe that's where my +1 Composite Bow went...) With Aurora's I'd end up with economic hardship all the way to my chat with dieties... while enemies always flourish. It might still be good to do it, but I prefer being able to scrape my way up and defeat the villains toward a time of less hard times. In that way anyway Hard Times does allow itself to get out of the way, intended only to make the economy of shortages felt while the shortages remained. The readme actually showed the author Macready had tried to have all stores return to "normal" after the Cloakwood mines were flooded, but he couldn't figure out how to alter stores on a chapter-trigger basis and couldn't simply replace stores on the trigger since it would remove items you'd sold and add items you'd bought. He settled with just hampering all stores outside Baldur's Gate (except maybe Ulgoth's Beard which was still quite full of magic...) On the other hand there is also no trigger that restores weapons and armor back to non- or less-breakable, so enemies continue to lose their swords and armor while my chars, by the end of the game, are immune... Lots of trade-offs...

4. I do want Item Randomizer... but maybe I'll be content on this go-round to just see what Hard Times randomizes.

I sound like my boss now who shoots down all my ideas immediately as if he's at a skeet shoot... Pull!

[Irrbloss]

Bhryaen wrote...
Item Randomizer can make what of that new situation? Which randomization takes place first?

Hard Times does its stuff before Item Randomiser (provided the proper installation order is observed).

I can't think of how I could (generally) script Item Rand so that it would work with the Hard Times world, recognizing neutered items and stores as such, then devising different randomization scheme around it for the rest of the items.

Item Randomiser has the infrastructure to do this already (randomiser/lists/bg1rebalancing.2da, in this case). It would just need to be set up to be aware of Hard Times. I suppose the reason it isn't already is because I have no personal experience with Hard Times and no one who's played it has come forward and said that item x is made less powerful by Hard Times and shouldn't be valued as highly.
Edit: though if you wanted to keep an emaciated store emaciated, that could be a new feature I'd have to implement (i.e. something that is not readily accomplished within the current framework).

Modifié par Irrbloss, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:21 .

[Bhryaen]

Irrbloss wrote...

I can't think of how I could (generally) script Item Rand so that it would work with the Hard Times world, recognizing neutered items and stores as such, then devising different randomization scheme around it for the rest of the items.

Item Randomiser has the infrastructure to do this already (randomiser/lists/bg1rebalancing.2da, in this case). It would just need to be set up to be aware of Hard Times. I suppose the reason it isn't already is because I have no personal experience with Hard Times and no one who's played it has come forward and said that item x is made less powerful by Hard Times and shouldn't be valued as highly.
Edit: though if you wanted to keep an emaciated store emaciated, that could be a new feature I'd have to implement (i.e. something that is not readily accomplished within the current framework).

Yes, see? It's like in order to make Item Randomizer work with Hard Times the former has to make major concessions to the latter, and in effect actually behave just like the latter... and thus not be Item Randomizer any more in that respect. The items involved presumably get plopped into boss inventories, so IRz (distinguishing from IRv) would have to either do a separate HT-specific randomization for those items that HT tries to relocate which shuffles randomly between bosses or else simply remove the HT boss-circuit entirely and just toss those randomized items into a mix of extras placed randomly throughout the world (everywhere except for the places HT took them from in the first place- stores, creatures, and containers). If you can figure some way to make IRz recognize HT and steer clear somehow, that would be ok, I suppose, but even that just seems like a lot of work. Essentially IRz would have to clean up HT's mess.

Does Randomizer examine the actual inventory of various containers & carriers or are the initial item locations something assumed on startup before the swap? You say Randomizer works 2nd so long as it's installed 2nd but does install order actually mean that on the beginning of a game HT will do its randomization first? HT's readme is fairly scant on these matters and breaks almost nothing into separate components. If IRz were to "notice" HT present during install, could it somehow usurp the HT randomization engine and then simply add the otherwise randomized items back into the IRz pool? Again though, IRz would then have to do HT's job for it.

HT causes 3 issues for IRz:
1. HT removes some items from the game altogether (at least according to the readme) but it's not clear which ones. I don't know if that involves specific choices already preordained as overpowered and thus must-go's or if the HT randomizer works like the IRz options that involve some items getting lost. The stuff I never found may be among those items. IRz would either have to respect the HT losses or reintroduce them in the non-HT randomization location pool. (Of course I prefer the latter, but that's irrelevant... though perhaps it could be made into an option.)
2. It's not clear to me exactly which items precisely are, erm, emaciated by HT. The readme lists Algernon's cloak and wands- and those had definitely received the axe- but the readme hints at more. In my game I found the Boots of Speed having been randomized to Mulahey, but they were just boots. (I'm wondering now if they had charges too like Algernon's cloak because they sold for maybe 1200 gp. I was so disappointed I didn't even check, but the item description said nothing about speed on it any longer, just the usual item history description.) I'm not certain that HT deals with the Boots of Speed, mind you, but I suspect it. The Ring of Holiness I did find much later and it only gave bonus spells for level 1 & 4- also emaciated, I believe. Another HT victim? Dunno.
3. It's not certain either (from my playthrough experience) whether the HT randomizer randomizes the emaciated items with the non-emaciated/ strategically-relocated items. I suspected not because Algernon's cloak was on Algernon, the Monster Summon Wand in the crypt (I think), but I have no confirmation on anything else. I believe that the non-emaciated items are the ones that are supposedly randomized and relocated to bosses, but the items mocked in the readme like Ring of Wizardry & ankheg suit never showed up in my game at all in any form, emaciated or no, and of course the randomized Boots of Speed and Ring of Holiness were indeed emaciated. I was assuming that HT intended to randomize them and somehow they got lost anyway due to my mod stability issues, but I don't know. It's possible that Algernon's Cloak was not randomized intentionally while other things were... *shaking head*

So to really integrate the two mods, IRz would first have to account for everything that HT is tampering with... and unlike the comprehensive spoilers list of IRz replete with item locations and tier ratings, HT leaves everything mysterious... and thus problematic. If you can actually do it though, you'd have a very happy fan of IRz!

By the way is it possible for IRz to relocate the Stealth Armor from the Smithy to Feldepost Inn? That's how I found it but I wasn't sure IRz did it. HT mentioned that Feldepost was one of only a few stores left carrying magic items- including High Hedge & the Sorcerous Sundries. I definitely don't know how the IRz randomizer engine works at all.

[EDIT: Another question... does IRz give, say, Greyhawk new weapon proficiencies to compensate for his loss of his +2 sword? He ended up trying to kill me with a +1 halberd, and I wondered if his THAC0 was thus lower on me...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 20 janvier 2011 - 12:49 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...
What a tease then! I think after several real days of exploring BG2 it would be fun to go visit Beregost again or something, especially if I recognize only at that point that there was another quest I'd forgotten from BG1 days.

That'd allow you to store your valuable items (like the Cloak of Balduran) and go to BG2 with a serious advantage (not to forget that the "Raise 15.000 Gold" would be completely trivial, accomplished with one trip to the next store).

1. The component I least like about Hard Times is the item neuterer which makes a 3-charge Wand of Fire less useful than a 5-pack of bottle bombs

Firstly you'd be able to choose for yourself which weapon tweaks to install, and secondly IR's primary goal isn't to nerf stuff. Only the really powerful items, like the staff of infinite invisibility, the robe of instant spellcasting and the sword of mage-slaughtering were really toned down.

1PP avatar meddling that I'd have to integrate properly

Why would it be improper if done by this mod? I'd rather trust the mod that messes with all items to do all the messing than a second mod to help the process without creating problems. If you don't like 1PP, that's a different story of course.

A further "item revision" aspect exclusive to Hard Times is its effects on all normal metal items, making armor, weapons, and (I think) shields prone to breaking. IR doesn't do that.

Since you are planning on installing BGT, I think I should quote the readme of the same:

MAJOR FEATURES

[...]
- Iron shortage causes weapons,
armor, and shields to shatter: BGT-WeiDU adds a new system that puts
the iron shortage in Baldur’s Gate into complete action. All normal weapons,
armor, and shields made of iron have a chance to break when used, making the
difficulty of the game harder, but does not happen too often to immensely annoy
the player.

Since I don't know how this is implemented, I don't know for certain if it's incompatible with Item Revisions though.

2. I didn't see the SCS container component on several reinstalls (though it wouldn't surprise me that I overlooked it),

My mistake, only SCS2 does that. I don't know if the effects would also be visible in the BG1 part of BGT, but I doubt it.

I prefer being able to scrape my way up and defeat the villains toward a time of less hard times.

Maybe your experience is different, but usually when I play games, it's only in the beginning where you need money anyway. Sure, later there are certain uber-weapons to be crafted for you (dragon scale armor for example), but besides that, most of the best stuff will be pure loot.

I sound like my boss now who shoots down all my ideas immediately as if he's at a skeet shoot... Pull!

And I sound, as always, like somebody for whom it's necessary to sell his ideas to other people.
Don't feel bad about it.

Edit: again, some minor issues

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 20 janvier 2011 - 12:45 .

[Bhryaen]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Bhryaen wrote...
... after several real days of exploring BG2 it would be fun to go visit Beregost again or something, especially if I recognize only at that point that there was another quest I'd forgotten from BG1 days.

That'd allow you to store your valuable items (like the Cloak of Balduran) and go to BG2 with a serious advantage (not to forget that the "Raise 15.000 Gold" would be completely trivial, accomplished with one trip to the next store).

Then let me go back in BG2 Chap 5 (I have no idea what Chap 5 means in BG, of course) or something!

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Firstly you'd be able to choose for yourself which weapon tweaks to install, and secondly IR's primary goal isn't to nerf stuff. Only the really powerful items, like the staff of infinite invisibility, the robe of instant spellcasting and the sword of mage-slaughtering were really toned down.

OK, OK, I'll take another look at IRv... Hm, now it doesn't look so bad, not even the reputation-not-affecting-store-prices rule (which kind of makes sense. "Now, now, I'm your hero, but I insist on paying full price!") The masterwork thingy I don't like, but it's optional, and the weapon damage portion I actually wanted... The only thing I'm feeling hesitant on now is something I just recalled suttree introducing a while ago: IRv moves items around. Apparently IRz can handle it, but again it adds more variables. That was why I shied away from IRv's main component before- the excess of variables- that and the fact that it didn't work with Tutu. But maybe it can work. We'll see...

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Bhryaen wrote...
1PP avatar meddling that I'd have to integrate properly

Why would it be improper if done by this mod? I'd rather trust the mod that messes with all items to do all the messing than a second mod to help the process without creating problems.

I was trying to keep to suttree's suggestion of keeping all modding of a particular type to a single mod if possible. Since I really don't know what effect IRv's 1PP meddling is, I'd have a variable to contend with, and I'm content keeping 1PP the way it was made by its own creator and letting it do all the avatar and paperdoll machinations rather than let an item qualities mod implement an incomplete group of 1PP components itself. (Still debating wither IA is better to go with, but still...) According to IRv's readme the IRv 1PP changes can be installed (before 1PP) without issue, and apparently the 1PP modder (whose approach tends to be very sharp... too bad she's just into avatars) gave permission for IRv to meddle, so this particular part of the main component might be fine, but now I have to consider mod order again. *grumble*

Of course I've already been using other (global) IRv components which were rules changes rather than strictly item revision components (spellcasting in armor restrictions, revised shield stats and dual-wield penalties, weapon dmg changes). But consistency is the bugbear of hobgoblins!

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Since you are planning on installing BGT, I think I should quote the readme of the same:

MAJOR FEATURES
[...]
- Iron shortage causes weapons,
armor, and shields to shatter: BGT-WeiDU adds a new system that puts
the iron shortage in Baldur’s Gate into complete action. All normal weapons,
armor, and shields made of iron have a chance to break when used, making the
difficulty of the game harder, but does not happen too often to immensely annoy
the player.

Since I don't know how this is implemented, I don't know for certain if it's incompatible with Item Revisions though.

Wow, I didn't know this about BGT. And I'm not sure there would be an issue at all because despite the Tutu version I've been deferring to, the BGT version (converted by Ascension64) is already BGT specific and may simply utilize the same BGT-WeiDU breakage rule... or it may magnify it... Unfortunately the BGT-version readme is even less revelatory than the Tutu original and has no HT-specific forum despite being up to v2.4. *grumble* It's a conspiracy. To be honest even with HT fully implemented my armor only broke for the whole game twice, weapon once or twice, shield maybe once- and that's from 3 armor users and at least partial melee. (Then again I stole Thunderhammer's bastard sword early on...)

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Bhryaen wrote...
I prefer being able to scrape my way up and defeat the villains toward a time of less hard times.

Maybe your experience is different, but usually when I play games, it's only in the beginning where you need money anyway. Sure, later there are certain uber-weapons to be crafted for you (dragon scale armor for example), but besides that, most of the best stuff will be pure loot.

True enough about most games I've played- or at least I end up with so much gold fast that I can buy whatever I want as soon as it's available in stores. NWN was always like that. But this last game with HT successfully made me struggle to come up with funds for most of the game. At the end I spent on everything I wanted that remained- potions and protection scrolls, wands, high-level spells- and still had 100K, but that was after selling off a lot of things I had been scraping together the whole game. I couldn't get the Greenstone Amulet until I'd completed most areas south of Baldur's Gate, and I didn't get the 22K for my stealth armor until so late I worried that I'd ultimately need to ration which items I would buy and which I'd just have to keep salivating over in the shop windows. I was pretty low-magic for the first half of the game, and many items I'd procure were nice but not useful to anyone in my party. There was a mod-installed item crafter in the FAI who wanted in the 30K's to convert the Piercing Belt and a Potion of Fire Giant Strength into something nice. I'd have been a pauper at the end if the FAI hadn't been hijacked by the Grey Clan (and the crafter NPC's dialogue hadn't been broken early on somehow).

Modifié par Bhryaen, 20 janvier 2011 - 03:29 .

[suttree]

The only thing I'm feeling hesitant on now is something I just recalled suttree introducing a while ago: IRv moves items around.

Not a big issue in BG1.   At the time, just noting that IR presents an alternative to the randomizer.  
Randomizer: Make the game fresh by having old items in new places
IR: Make the game fresh with new items placed intentionally for interest/balance.
Shouldn't prevent you from using the two together, just a conceptual mismatch worth noting. Moreso in BG2 and v3.

Iron shortage causes weapons, armor, and shields to shatter:

Moved to BGT tweaks for versions after 1.05b. Optional.  

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...
There was a mod-installed item crafter in the FAI who wanted in the 30K's to convert the Piercing Belt and a Potion of Fire Giant Strength into something nice. I'd have been a pauper at the end if the FAI hadn't been hijacked by the Grey Clan (and the crafter NPC's dialogue hadn't been broken early on somehow).

I'm not sure if you're aware that the FAI does return to its normal state if you fully defeat the Grey Clan.  My reaction when I first came across the hijacking was similar to yours - how dare they meddle with such an important area!  However, to be fair to the creators I think there is some supporting storyline to this and it becomes obvious that the group is strong enough to be able to take over that area if they wanted to.  Having defeated the Grey Clan the original occupants come back, which means you could use the money you've saved on those item conversions if you want.

Modifié par Grond0, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:17 .

[Irrbloss]

Bhryaen wrote...

Does Randomizer examine the actual inventory of various containers & carriers or are the initial item locations something assumed on startup before the swap?

Item Randomiser checks if the item is where Item Randomiser expects it to be before it randomises the item. That way other mods that move items are automatically taken into account.

You say Randomizer works 2nd so long as it's installed 2nd but does install order actually mean that on the beginning of a game HT will do its randomization first? HT's readme is fairly scant on these matters and breaks almost nothing into separate components. If IRz were to "notice" HT present during install, could it somehow usurp the HT randomization engine and then simply add the otherwise randomized items back into the IRz pool? Again though, IRz would then have to do HT's job for it.

Unless I'm mistaken Hard Times does its randomisation during the installation process and not at the start of a new game.
I could undo Hard Times' randomisation and re-randomise those items according to Item Randomiser, but I don't want to do that. If you install Hard Times, you get Hard Times and Item Randomiser works around that.

1. HT removes some items from the game altogether (at least according to the readme) but it's not clear which ones. I don't know if that involves specific choices already preordained as overpowered and thus must-go's or if the HT randomizer works like the IRz options that involve some items getting lost. The stuff I never found may be among those items. IRz would either have to respect the HT losses or reintroduce them in the non-HT randomization location pool. (Of course I prefer the latter, but that's irrelevant... though perhaps it could be made into an option.)

I'm pretty sure Hard Times has a fixed list of items to remove. Currently Item Randomiser does not undo any of these removals.

2. It's not clear to me exactly which items precisely are, erm, emaciated by HT. The readme lists Algernon's cloak and wands- and those had definitely received the axe- but the readme hints at more. In my game I found the Boots of Speed having been randomized to Mulahey, but they were just boots. (I'm wondering now if they had charges too like Algernon's cloak because they sold for maybe 1200 gp. I was so disappointed I didn't even check, but the item description said nothing about speed on it any longer, just the usual item history description.) I'm not certain that HT deals with the Boots of Speed, mind you, but I suspect it. The Ring of Holiness I did find much later and it only gave bonus spells for level 1 & 4- also emaciated, I believe. Another HT victim? Dunno.

I would have to have a better look at Hard Times before I could say anything definite.
But the Ring of Holiness only ever gave you bonus spells from level 1 through 4, so that's not been altered.

3. It's not certain either (from my playthrough experience) whether the HT randomizer randomizes the emaciated items with the non-emaciated/ strategically-relocated items. I suspected not because Algernon's cloak was on Algernon, the Monster Summon Wand in the crypt (I think), but I have no confirmation on anything else. I believe that the non-emaciated items are the ones that are supposedly randomized and relocated to bosses, but the items mocked in the readme like Ring of Wizardry & ankheg suit never showed up in my game at all in any form, emaciated or no, and of course the randomized Boots of Speed and Ring of Holiness were indeed emaciated. I was assuming that HT intended to randomize them and somehow they got lost anyway due to my mod stability issues, but I don't know. It's possible that Algernon's Cloak was not randomized intentionally while other things were... *shaking head*

I think the Ring of Wizardry and the Ankheg Plate may be completely removed by Hard Times, yes. It is possible Hard Times merely nerfed the Boots of Speed and then it was actually Item Randomiser which randomised both the boots and the ring.

By the way is it possible for IRz to relocate the Stealth Armor from the Smithy to Feldepost Inn? That's how I found it but I wasn't sure IRz did it. HT mentioned that Feldepost was one of only a few stores left carrying magic items- including High Hedge & the Sorcerous Sundries. I definitely don't know how the IRz randomizer engine works at all.

That sounds like Hard Times' doing. The Shadow Armour and Feldepost's Inn are not in the same tiers in Item Randomiser.

[EDIT: Another question... does IRz give, say, Greyhawk new weapon proficiencies to compensate for his loss of his +2 sword? He ended up trying to kill me with a +1 halberd, and I wondered if his THAC0 was thus lower on me...

I'm fairly certain it is Hard Times that takes Varscona from Greywolf and gives him a halberd instead. Item Randomiser gives him a long sword +1.

Modifié par Irrbloss, 20 janvier 2011 - 03:22 .

[DMWW]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Bhryaen wrote...
Have you tested it? Does it imbalance BG1 mages if the SCS mage/ priest AI is suppressed in favor of SCS2? Do BG1 spellslingers now have a strange preference for spell levels 5-7?

The problem would not be what they'd omit (even in BG2, mages can cast Magic Missile), but in what they'd be able to use. I haven't tested it, and I don't know how high their caster levels would be, but even level 5 and level 6 spells can radically change their power.

Actually, the comment is out of date and should be deleted. The original SCS has had an option to use BG2 style spellcasting for some while now.

DMWW wrote...
I can't really be bothered to improve on Ascension Balthazar.

And what about those that don't wish to install Ascension?

That's their lookout. 

Less flippantly: Ascension has a "tougher Balthazar" component. I think it's fairly good, and (so far, at least) haven't been bothered to write a replacement for it. Since there's already a way of making Balthazar smarter and tougher that I think is pretty good, writing my own isn't a priority.

[Bhryaen]

Grond0 wrote...
Having defeated the Grey Clan the original occupants come back, which means you could use the money you've saved on those item conversions if you want.

So everything in entirety just returns to exactly how it was before it was presumably occupied by ravaging, marauding, kidnapping... ok, sounds great! Hey, have you seen anything buggy since putting DH after SCS? I mean is the fix really that easy?

I'm starting to think that it's the quest mods that are posing the most issues. The core mods all work fairly well together, it seems, so long as they're installed in the correct order and according to component compatibility. Ironically I really don't want to do without the new quests though. I never even got to see Stone of Askavar to complain about, and of course I've got a score to settle with the Grey Clan at some point...

I just noticed another 1PP meddling done by Spell Revisions (applying the 1PP Wings component to celestials), but in that case it doesn't mention whether that particular component should be installed after or before 1PP other components. It's optional, but still... Doesn't 1PP already attach wings itself or does it just make them available for other mods to implant? It seems to be assuming 1PP is already in place, so I could put 1PP before it (as it already was) but the solution for IRv is to put it after. I'd left it out previously because, well, I had Tutu.

I'm defnitely leaving out IRz this time because I'd like to see the actual effects of IRv (as suttree suggested), especially given that I'll be playing more for story this time using NPCs, and most importantly since I'm using BGT and have no recollection of BG2 item locations from the outset, it's almost irrelevant. Also I'm interested in where items were originally placed in BG2 since there may be reasons for them. Actually if there were an option to only randomize BG1 items, I'd do that. Of course it won't matter much on my 2nd time through because I'll want to randomize BG2 then.

I wonder how old HT is... hm, last updated Feb, 2009, for Tutu. I'm taking H_T's suggestion on HT and nixing it. I'm starting to resent its intentionally enigmatic readme, and there just seems no ongoing interest from the modding community or original modder to make it work with other mods. Don't people want to struggle and suffer even more in their games? What's wrong with them? Sheesh!

Aurora's is a batch of interesting but potentially wrench-in-the-works tweaks... It has a fix for Kobold Commandoes to work like Black Talon Elites whereby they only get the 2 fire arrows and drop none if you don't kill them before they use 'em, but it also changes items (the arrows themselves). See? Why does it have to go that extra step? At least it works with SCS, as does the Horror rev. The readme mentions so many other mods, it seems geared to be integral, but what do I know? It says to install it before "biffing" routines. What's "biffing?" This seems to be key to the mod-user's lexicon. ("Nerfing" is better than "neutering." hehe)

suttree wrote...

Iron shortage causes weapons, armor, and shields to shatter:

Moved to BGT tweaks for versions after 1.05b. Optional.

The readme mentions two options- both for iron-related items (generally?) to break and also for enemy-equipped items to break as well. I actually need both?

Damn, another day without installing... off to work I go... If only I hadn't been so quick to delete all my old Tutu folder contents. I could've saved my WeiDU log and used a lot of it to build the .bat already.

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...

Grond0 wrote...
Having defeated the Grey Clan the original occupants come back, which means you could use the money you've saved on those item conversions if you want.

So everything in entirety just returns to exactly how it was before it was presumably occupied by ravaging, marauding, kidnapping... ok, sounds great! Hey, have you seen anything buggy since putting DH after SCS? I mean is the fix really that easy?

I'm starting to think that it's the quest mods that are posing the most issues. The core mods all work fairly well together, it seems, so long as they're installed in the correct order and according to component compatibility. Ironically I really don't want to do without the new quests though. I never even got to see Stone of Askavar to complain about, and of course I've got a score to settle with the Grey Clan at some point...

Having played through DH and Grey Clan several times I've now deleted these, but no I didn't notice any bugs associated with them.  I think they're both fun and worth doing (more so than DSOTSC), but found that they tended to unbalance the game rather, in particular due to the availability of overpowered equipment.  I don't know if you've come across the morgoth bow yet, but that is just ridiculous.  I calculated in one earlier game that Montaron shooting it (at I think level 6 fighter without any buffing at all) would average over 100HP per round damage against  an enemy with AC0.  I know it's possible to just not use the equipment, but found that a bit tedious, e.g. trying to keep track of what items I could justify selling and which were mod introduced and should just be dumped.

I had Stone of Askavar installed for a while, but only played through it once - it's designed for a slightly lower level party than the other quest mods and I was way overpowered when I did it.

[Bhryaen]

suttree wrote...
*re: IR spellcasting in armor: There is presently a conflict with SCS that prevents AI clerics from casting in heavy armor. I suggest option 4 (no penalties) and appropriate role-play until this is fixed in SCS.

Is this still an issue for SCS? And does SCS II make it irrelevant? I realllly like that option 4 too much...

[suttree]

Bhryaen wrote...

suttree wrote...
*re: IR spellcasting in armor: There is presently a conflict with SCS that prevents AI clerics from casting in heavy armor. I suggest option 4 (no penalties) and appropriate role-play until this is fixed in SCS.

Is this still an issue for SCS? And does SCS II make it irrelevant? I realllly like that option 4 too much...

Not until the next version of SCS/SCSII - see this

[Bhryaen]

Epiphany shmapiphany. Decided to do a full install of everything I want.

Reasoning being... It will fill out my WeiDU log enough to be able to construct a solid .bat formula and make the (probably inevitably swiftly-following) reinstall that much easier. It also thus gets over with in one go all the prep work for establishing the .bat (unless I discover yet more mods in the meantime, of course). It also gives me a shot at seeing the quest mods which in subsequent reinstalls I simply will never use again.

I remembered something too- something from before the DH debacle, I believe. On one of my earliest reinstalls I'd had issues with IRv because I'd used the component that slows down chars that wear heavy armor. I couldn't stand it, but I'd used WeiDU to reinstall everything. I'm wondering if that was the or an original issue. Of course DH still has its own issues, but still...

Anyway... chugging along on making all the charts and such... back earlier if I get Q's I think I should bother the forum with... but, since I haven't said it lately and truly am grateful, thanks to everyone who's helped me along this modding journey!

[Bhryaen]

DMWW wrote...
On a different note, could someone explain this "SCS unrealistic Help" issue in more detail? It sounds like something that ought to be sorted out.

I just thought of something else. I'm trying to recall the exact circumstances, but there were moments when I would be stealthed or invisible and the attacker(s) would still know exactly where I was. There were similar moments in Vanilla when I would run around a corner and hide in shadows successfully, but the monster would run up to my current position even after I'd moved a little from where I'd stealthed, but then they'd lose track of me. In this case they just kept after me as if unable to get at me on the other side of a force field. When it first happened I thought they were seeing through my concealment and would attack, but instead they came right up to me and stopped. I moved, and they moved with me. I think once there was a mage who cast True Seeing while I had on the Nondetection Cloak but, not being able to target me, still walked right up to me.

Come to think of it, I read also that Grond0 had a similar experience on the No Reload thread when the "peripatetic groups" of mercs came after him. The Amazons chased him from one end of the area to the other despite him using Invisibility Potions, and the Molkar group did the same at Durlag's. Hope I haven't done wrong in linking to your posts, Grond0!

[Bhryaen]

One quick Q about walking speeds. Tutufix dealt with that in Tutu, but does BGT do its own without mods? All the discussion on this is from 2006-7 that I've found, lamenting the Tutufix walking speed component. Or do most BGT-users just acclimate to faster walk speeds? I'd prefer the BG1 speed, but I don't want every other creature and NPC out there to be racing past me at a normal pace.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I guess usually BGT is only played at normal speed, because most of the same creatures appear in BG1 and BG2. What you might try is the BG1 walking speeds component of the G3 Tweakpack, which is still in beta though. Then, when you are done with BG1, simply uninstall it again. I have no idea how balanced or stable this would be, though. I prefer the BG2 walking speeds, as they speed things up considerably.

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...

Come to think of it, I read also that Grond0 had a similar experience on the No Reload thread when the "peripatetic groups" of mercs came after him. The Amazons chased him from one end of the area to the other despite him using Invisibility Potions, and the Molkar group did the same at Durlag's. Hope I haven't done wrong in linking to your posts, Grond0!

Of course not.  I've also noticed this type of behaviour on a number of occasions since. 

Or do most BGT-users just acclimate to faster walk speeds? I'd prefer the BG1 speed, but I don't want every other creature and NPC out there to be racing past me at a normal pace.

Have you tried adjusting the frame rate in the config settings?  I always set this on maximum, but then I use the pause button pretty continuously in a fight.  If you have a different playstyle you could turn down the speed like that.

[Bhryaen]

Grond0 wrote...
Have you tried adjusting the frame rate in the config settings?  I always set this on maximum, but then I use the pause button pretty continuously in a fight.  If you have a different playstyle you could turn down the speed like that.

Does adjusting the frame rate simply slow down everything or does it affect only my PC. I figure it's everything, but would rather just know for sure. If it's that easy I don't see why Tutufix even bothered. If the issue is that BG2 speeds give the PC a kind of automatic kensai speed so that now I have an unfair advantage, then I can see the need for a fix.

I do use Pause though- can't see any way not to. That said I do refrain a lot. When I first went from BG to NWN I was pausing constantly but learned in online NWN (where it's simply not an option) how to work the console without pause, so I'm having to relearn pausing again. The PC simply reacts way too fast to ignore it, and I react way too slow to click multiple chars in time. If you leave attack scripts on your NPCs they'll react as fast as the PC, but they'll do idiot stuff constantly- immediately ganging up on Charmed chars, turning around to run back into enemies after I've told them to flee, etc.- so I just turn it off and micromanage everything even though I miss a round or two often enough. Until PC AI is smart enough, I don't see any better option.

You know, I've been using that long kurzenburg list you showed me so long ago now that the Tutu mod order list seems a bit less apt for the purpose, and I found a few notable things about it. First, it actually places DH extremely early on- literally immediately after installing BGT itself. There is such a huge number of mods that it seems significant that mod #1 is DH. I doubt it would alleviate the issues we've experienced to install it there, but I wonder what prompted that decision. Not to mention that they advocate IRv after 1PP (despite the IRv readme advocating the reverse emphatically) and both before BGT! Actually maybe if they mean the main component of IRv it might even be a good idea (if the two are placed IRv  -> 1PP). But then all the way almost at the end it puts more 1PP stuff... *sigh*

Also it mentions "Ascension-related mods" but it never mentions Ascension itself in the order list. I've seen enough mod lists to know it's supposed to go fairly early though- before the Fixpack even, I believe, at least if I take igneous.sponge's WeiDU list and suttree's mod list as a guide.

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...
Does adjusting the frame rate simply slow down everything or does it affect only my PC.

As you say it affects everything - this is helpful if you want to micromanage characters without pausing, but otherwise will just slow the game down.

In relation to mod order I'm afraid I have no claims as a modder (and have only tried a very small number of the total mods available) so don't think my comments will help your questions.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Bhryaen wrote...
Does adjusting the frame rate simply slow down everything or does it affect only my PC. I figure it's everything, but would rather just know for sure. If it's that easy I don't see why Tutufix even bothered. If the issue is that BG2 speeds give the PC a kind of automatic kensai speed so that now I have an unfair advantage, then I can see the need for a fix.

Keep in mind that reducing the frame rate too much will make the entire game look like a slide show, or like an attempt at giving yourself an epileptic attack.
And it's not an unfair advantage either. Everybody starts walking faster, so the only people with a disadvantage are archers and mages, because those were relying on their enemies taking their time to reach them.

kurzenburg list

Kerze means Candle and Burg means Keep. So Kerzenburg is Candlekeep.

Not to mention that they advocate IRv after 1PP (despite the IRv readme advocating the reverse emphatically) and both before BGT! Actually maybe if they mean the main component of IRv it might even be a good idea (if the two are placed IRv  -> 1PP). But then all the way almost at the end it puts more 1PP stuff... *sigh*

Yeah, these people don't just install mods in one go. They look for the perfect point for every single component in their install order.

Also it mentions "Ascension-related mods" but it never mentions Ascension itself in the order list. I've seen enough mod lists to know it's supposed to go fairly early though- before the Fixpack even, I believe, at least if I take igneous.sponge's WeiDU list and suttree's mod list as a guide.

The reason is, I believe, that they do not install Ascension, but instead Big Picture, which seems to include a modified version of Ascension.

[The Fred]

I have a lot less problems given I have only BG, so no TuTu or BGT for me, and thus only about a dozen or so mods max. There's a lot less that can go wrong with that. ;-)



However, it sounds like you've been running into actual mod bugs. "Cannot convert %category% to an int" or whatever it was sounds like an error in the WeiDU code.

[gnatpowercompared]

Hello.
A question about BGT: if you kill Drizzt in BG1 "part", then you wont encounter him in BG2?

Modifié par gnatpowercompared, 29 janvier 2011 - 10:13 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I've never done this, but from the Drizzt dialogue in BG2 it appears obvious that the developers thought of the possibility of you killing him and said that he would be revived in that case. I don't think that BGT would mess with that. It is possible that the developer tweaked the dialogue so you are not allowed to act like his friend after killing him - but I doubt it.

[Flamedance]

gnatpowercompared wrote...

Hello.
A question about BGT: if you kill Drizzt in BG1 "part", then you wont encounter him in BG2?

You'll meet him again, no matter if you've killed him. You won't meet him if you have the Region of Terror mod installed. But that's the only mod i know of that removes the encounter from the game.