145 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

It takes 250000 bullets to kill one person in iraq. I rather have unlimited ammo instead of quick swapping mags. If you are not firing in bursts, you are doing it wrong. [unless you uber modded your gun in ME1 to be over powered...]

[TexasToast712]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Well, that I know of, no ME weapon uses charged plasma.

Geth Plasma Shotgun in the Firepower pack.

[Googlesaurus]

Meh. It's not really something to complain about at this time.

But on the note of enemy powers, enemies need more powers. Warp, Incinerate, and Combat Drone do not cut it. It's weaksauce to make your enemies into mere obstacles. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:21 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Vaenier wrote...
It takes 250000 bullets to kill one person in iraq. I rather have unlimited ammo instead of quick swapping mags.

It doesn't really work that way. I mean they aren't firing 25,000 bullets at a single guy. Most of that is supression fire from all sorts of different vehicles and weapons.

[lazuli]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Christina herself said it was a welcome change to testers who hated the fact enemies in the first game were glorified bullet sponges who spammed Immunity as the only means to counter Shepard's trigger finger.

That has nothing to do with whether or not the feature is a plot hole.

It's not a plot hole, as it's not relevant to the plot.  It might be a logical inconsistency, but it's not related enough to the plot of the game to actually be a plot hole.

[Inquisitor Recon]

People say the word plot hole way too much. Anything and everything is a plot hole.

I have no problem with and liked the change to the thermal clips. To be honest the weapons don't make much sense to begin with because they all use a mysterious endless metal block as ammunition.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:29 .

[Saren100]

Packa wrote...



Oh, and they did have rifles during the time of the musket. Go watch the Sharpe series

Yea I know they had rifles I just ment that it took a long period of time for most modern European armies to completely switch to rifled barrels.

[Sadorath]

You know ME2 uses the unreal engine if you dont like how your clips dont cool down/regen then just change the game coding.. I changed the ini to give me crouch again Seriously.. I loved the old system.. I played ME2 then ME.. personally I like ME more.. ME2 is.. more... movie like.. less gameplay to.. But if you pay out the nose for all the addons.. then ME2 beats ME in gameplay hours..

[TexasToast712]

Vaenier wrote...

It takes 250000 bullets to kill one person in iraq. I rather have unlimited ammo instead of quick swapping mags. If you are not firing in bursts, you are doing it wrong. [unless you uber modded your gun in ME1 to be over powered...]

No I like having to like reload. It seems more plausible in the future that we are still reloading our guns. Not to mention I love watching the red hot thermal clips eject.

[Darth_Ultima]

Sadorath wrote...

You know ME2 uses the unreal engine if you dont like how your clips dont cool down/regen then just change the game coding.. I changed the ini to give me crouch again Seriously.. I loved the old system.. I played ME2 then ME.. personally I like ME more.. ME2 is.. more... movie like.. less gameplay to.. But if you pay out the nose for all the addons.. then ME2 beats ME in gameplay hours..

That only works if you have the PC version.  And to all the people out there who complain how often this is brought up All I have to say is this.  I fell like it was an unneccesary change that hurt the uniqueness of the game and I will say so every time it is brought up.  Every other game has ammo Mass Effect didn't  I loved it.  In the context of Mass Effects fiction it made sense.  Adding thermal clips was so abrupt and random.  I wanted to play Mass Effect not Gears of War in space.

[rokeeb]

All I have to say is this, if there weren't thermal clips, Zaeed couldn't have ejected his thermal clip to burn that guy alive.

Seriously though, for the Gernsback (spelling?) crew dropping ammo, I think that maybe the crew are using the old weapons, but shepard can remove the heatsinks from their guns and put them into his. That would explain the ammo, and that way, You can say that not ALL the guns in the game use the same heatsink system as Shepard.

Also, why does everyone think that all of the old guns just had to dissappear? Why can't whichever guns use the new system just have been retrofitted old guns?

Modifié par rokeeb, 11 décembre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Praetor Knight]

rokeeb wrote...

All I have to say is this, if there weren't thermal clips, Zaeed couldn't have ejected his thermal clip to burn that guy alive.

Seriously though, for the Gernsback (spelling?) crew dropping ammo, I think that maybe the crew are using the old weapons, but shepard can remove the heatsinks from their guns and put them into his. That would explain the ammo, and that way, You can say that not ALL the guns in the game use the same heatsink system as Shepard.

Also, why does everyone think that all of the old guns just had to dissappear? Why can't whichever guns use the new system just have been retrofitted old guns?

Yes, I like how you put it.

That's how it seems to me also.

[Vaenier]

Sniper rifle: You can carry only 10 shots.

REALLY? How exactly does having to reload after every single shot be an improvement? not just rechamber, but put in an entire new magazine. and you can only carry 10 of them at any one time...

My old sniper would function even faster with its old super unlimited rapid cooloff heatsink...

[Darth_Ultima]

I really don't care about the thermal clips themselves. I just want the guns to cool off by themselves, the game to feel like Mass Effect, and not to have a stupid ammo counter. That damn ammo counter bugs the hell out of me.

[Sajuro]

not this again

[Vaenier]

Sajuro wrote...


not this again

and now i must load up zelda again... really awsome game.

[Cypher0020]

I like the thermal clips.... I've played ME2 about 5 times now...never ran out of ammo ever... in some places there's too much IMO



I couldn't stand when the guns would overheat in ME1....



ME1-...counting slowly...5-10 secs....

ME2- hit X.... 1-2 secs and back in the action

[Spartas Husky]

Cypher0020 wrote...

I like the thermal clips.... I've played ME2 about 5 times now...never ran out of ammo ever... in some places there's too much IMO

I couldn't stand when the guns would overheat in ME1....

ME1-...counting slowly...5-10 secs....
ME2- hit X.... 1-2 secs and back in the action

I just wished they had done both. WHere you can CHOOSE to eject sink, or choose to wait the cool down time.

sinks are that sinks, you can either eject for quick fire or wait until the one still inside coolsdown.... dont know why bioware made em clips.... I do hope they change it in ME3 and combine both.

So that you got 12 sinks with X  amount of charge. so you could use the first sink like ME1, use all the charges then wait until it cools down, for 3-10 secs depending on UPGRADES, hin hint. Or you could burn thorugh all 11 sinks, then the last sink reverts automatically to ME1 style, last sink cannot be ejected period, so you still got unlimited ammo BUT that last sink cannot be ejected, and you wait for cooldown every time you run out of charges.

There best of both worlds

[Cypher0020]

Wow. That is a good idea... I never thought about adding both.... the choice to eject the clip or let it cool down



if they do that... how will they retcon it for ME3? Whoops we made a mistake and we're back to cool downs again?



*headexplodes*

[Googlesaurus]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Wow. That is a good idea... I never thought about adding both.... the choice to eject the clip or let it cool down

if they do that... how will they retcon it for ME3? Whoops we made a mistake and we're back to cool downs again?

*headexplodes*

Keep the history, but mention that guns have been modified to fire without thermal clips.

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 11 décembre 2010 - 04:12 .

[Blacklash93]

Technically, the thermal clips should cool off on their own over time. A conservative shooter shouldn't have to reload a thermal clip.



Still, it's beter than ME1's system, so I'm not complaining.

[Monochrome Wench]

Its not a retcon, as its not revisionist. It doesn't effect the already established canon from the first game. However, there are plot holes in ME2 as a result of making the change. Making the game exclusive using Thermal Clips probably occured significantly after Jacobs loyalty mission was designed. If the original system (for ME2) of using clips AND with cooldown was implemented, then all the thermal clips could be removed from Jacobs mission and there wouldn't have been an issue. It would have, obviously, changed the gameplay for the mission too. You would need to wait for your weapon to cooldown in contrast to the rest of the game where you'd still have the option of using recovered clips.

[didymos1120]

ReconTeam wrote...

To be honest the weapons don't make much sense to begin with because they all use a mysterious endless metal block as ammunition.

What's so mysterious about it?  It's a block.  Of metal.  In the gun.  The gun shoots little bits of it at bad guys when you pull the trigger.

But to elaborate: the weapon does some fancy computation using targeting and other data and then has a special subsystem inside shave off appropriately sized little chunks of that metal and feed them into the mass accelerator.  The ammo mods typically involve doping or coating the rounds with additional materials, like nasty radioactive isotopes and suchlike, or alter the way they're produced so they'll shatter on impact or something.  I.e., it's basically manufacturing its own bullets as needed. In a way, the gun has a highly-specialized version of the same tech used in omni-tools built in. 

Do we really need to know the gory metallurgical details of the alloys used for the ammo block or what sort of linkages are involved in the the feeder mechanism or how tight the tolerances are on the dimensions and mass of each individual round or how many micrograms of polonium are in rounds from a gun with the Polonium VII mod equipped and whatnot?  I mean, it would sound all sciency and stuff, but wouldn't add anything to the basic concept, which is all that's required and which is actually quite simple and straightforward.

And, it's only endless in gameplay terms.  In fact, if you talk to Wrex about his merc/private security days, he has that story about Aleena and their on-again/off-again running firefight that lasted so damn long he actually managed to burn through the whole block.  I imagine that in-world, changing the ammo block is done about as often as one changes the ink cartridges in the printer in real life.

They just simply didn't care to implement all the crap necessary to simulate the whole "depleted ammo block" thing, and it would have been really, really annoying if they had. Everyone would have completely forgotten about it because it would have taken some ridiculously large number of game hours before the thing actually had to be changed, at which point there'd be some overly long delay while Character X had to do some "service the weapon" animation that'd probably still be going after the other two had already killed everybody (or you'd have to manually swap their weapon, which would suck if Character X was completely incompetent with all the other weapons). And that's assuming you even remembered you actually had to bring along spare ammo blocks.  And even then, it would still be happening way more frequently than it should. If it really bugs you, just pretend that every now and again Shep and Co. are actually swapping in new blocks during that "We're flying somewhere in FTL" load screen.  Or right before they magically teleport out of the Mako without opening the hatch.

Modifié par didymos1120, 11 décembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[Ship.wreck_]

I read the first few posts and it seems like everyone hasn't noticed the biggest flaw in the whole "thermal clip" scenario.

The OP points out Shepards knowledge of thermal clips even though he's been in a coma / dead for that advance. Good point.

And how have all the weapons in the universe been upgraded with it.
Another good one.

Next poster note's that Shepard has access to all the best weapons and wouldn't be using something old.
Another good point. But what if the old tech worked better?

Bottom line is that the thermal clip is a huge technological quanum leap BACKWARDS. Bear with me on this one. ME1: UNLIMITED AMMO only problem is overheating you can shoot several seconds non stop 60-80 some odd shots, then you overheat have to wait several seconds for your weapon to cool.

ME2 Thermal Clips
As they are explained: in the booklet, interchangeable heat sink device so we don't have to wait for our weapons to cool anymore just pop in a fresh/cool clip. AWESOME if that's how it worked there would still be unlimited ammo, and we'd still be able to fire dozens of shots before overheating, then instead of waiting 10-15 seconds, just pop in a new clip and ready to fire / cooled down INSTANTLY, and it would be impossible to run out of clips because old overheated ones would just cool down over time and be reusable, just like built in heatsinks in the old guns. Plus even if you didn't have any clips you'd still be able to shoot just like the old game, and you would have to wait for guns to cool down just like the old game!

The problem is that's NOT how thermal clips actually end up working. You just get a clip with a certain amount of "shots" worth of "heat capacity" and when it's done it's done for good, and when you run out of clips you can't shoot anymore at all. It works exactly like a magazine full of bullets and nothing like a "thermal clip". Bottom line it's just a cheap plot device to introduce limited ammunition to a game where it's not supposed to exist. Just clips full of bullets that you run out of, called by a different name. Plot fail / tech fail.

If you want to take unlimited ammo away, just be honest about it, don't try and lie to me and trick me into thinking that limited ammo is a technological ADVANCE  over unlimited ammo. It's not working on this guy.

[Ship.wreck_]

Check this out Spartas Husky:



If they're really just interchangeable heatsinks then the ones you eject will still cooldown like they would in the gun. So you could hold onto ejected clips and re-use them when the cool down, (or even before they cool down completely just won't have as much capacity). So you could just carry enough clips that by time you're burning through the last clip the first is full cooled, then by time you're re burning the first the second has cooled, and endless cycle of re-using clips and never having to wait for your gun or any one specific clip to cool!



Plus the gun should still be able to fire in the old school mode if you don't happen to have any clips handy somehow.



But like I said, although they explained it as "thermal clips" it was really just traditional limited ammo all allong. Any attempt to reconcile the explanation of thermal clips in the codex or game booklet with the actuall gameplay of thermal clips will fail, because the explanation was a lie.



Here's somethig about ammo types. Believe it or not with today's technology it's possible to load more than one type of ammo into a magazine and thus achieve the effects of multiple different ammo type in every load! In fact I was in the Navy and that was standard procedure. We'd load machine guns with a nasty cocktail of ammo types. Most rounds were standard, but every 5th would be a tracer round, and I forget the other numbers but let's say every 8th would be armor peircing and every 3rd would be explosive and every 7th would be incindiary etc.



So you should be able to program your ME future gun to cycle through ammo modes as your fire in the same way, or even get an upgrade that detects an enemy's defenses and automatically swithches ammo types accordingly. Everytime you aim at an enemy with sheilds the gun automatically shoots disrupter ammo, armor you auto shoot ap or incindiary etc etc. That would've been a sick upgrade! Becaues I spent alot of time slowly swithching ammo types in that game. Oh, he has sheilds equip disrupter, oops this guy has armor and he flanking me, swith to ap, uh-oh sheilds guy is kicking my but swith back to disrupter.... and some times I just had to shoot someone with an inefective ammo just because I didn't have time to switch back and forth. And that sucks when you've got limited ammo so you have to make your shots count as much as possible...