155 réponses à ce sujet

[klossen4]

Mesina2 wrote...

klossen4 wrote...

it may be a subplot in me1 but still i saw it a mile away just as i think dark energy will get a big role in me3.

There was a subplot about dark energy in ME1?
Don't you mean ME2?

i mean me2 forgot say that

[Ship.wreck_]

GodWood wrote...
Dude, relax. It was a seperate paragraph thus I assumed it was a general statement about the series.
Besides you're wrong anyway, humans have always been the focus of the ME series.

Noted.

Secondly no I'm not. Now you need to go back and replay ME1 too. Humanitie's place in the galaxy is subplot in it, it is alluded to as a secondary motivator for Shepard. But the main motiviation and plot is to stop the Reapers from destroying EVERYONE in the galaxy. Nobody ever says we have to stop the reapers from destroying... just the humans oh no!

Bottom line if the series has always been just as human centric as it is now, you wouldn't see these threads debating the subject because there would be no question. Alot of players got a distinct sense that things were getting more and more human oriented and some players are defending that, but defending it doesn't negate the reality that it is getting more human centric. In any case, humans number in the tens of billions (or somehting) everyone combined numbers in the tens of trillions (or something) so making the game less about one group and more about everyone makes the game bigger, more epic and better. If you want to play a game that's all about humans, play a game that doesn't have aliens.

[Vaenier]

Just a note: ME1 was about just saving the Humans from the Geth. game starts out human colony attacked by geth. saren says he will destroy all humans, council tells humans to deal with it. hate all around.

It evolved into the bigger plot of the entire galaxy. I am not sure how that applies now; just saying.

[unclee]

"Your species has drawn the ire of those infinitely your greater." - Harbinger at the end of ME2



OF COURSE, they're going to target the humans first, they're pissed at the human species for screwing things up.



Also, everyone needs to chill out until we find out more information. Everyone is acting like that little blurb has given them complete insight into the entire game. Why don't we wait until we start getting some solid information before condemning ME3?

[TMA LIVE]

Yeah, because of Shepard's actions, humanity has become a first target.

[MajesticJazz]

Ship.wreck wrote...

I only read the first few posts but I was pretty much thinking the same thing since I first picked up ME2 and already have a two cents to put in. It is as follows:

The first Mass Effect was an awesome game, it realy gave you a sense of an EPIC battle! Because you weren't just some human in the Alliance (which by its self was cool), but you were also a Specter! So high ranking you reported exclusively to a galactic council, and it wasn't just humanity at stake if you failed it was all sapient species in the entire galaxy! It was huge!

Then I read the back of ME2 before I bought it and it said something about saving some human colonies from Collectors. I was like, "What the hell? How did they go from defending the galaxy from total anihalation at the hands of an unspeakably ancient race of super AI's to defending a handful of outlying colonies from abduction by your run of the mill evil alien, and expect to impress me?" I was really worried that the franchise completely forgot the whole reaper premis that was the whole point of the first game. Turns out when I played it they didn't forget but still they seemed to be taking a huge step backwards in the plot. It bacame so human-centric it didn't even give a shadow of the sense of epic-ness that the first game did. There was one point in the collector ship when Garrus had some line about all the human terminus colonies not being able to fill it and "They're going to target Earth!" Why would he care so much about the humans when he's got his own species to worry about, not to mention the rest of the galaxy, which is just as much threatened by the Reapers? Collectors and the humans just seems like a freakin' footnote!

Plus I really didn't buy that whole HumanReaper thing at the end. Really? We've seen lots of Reapers and they're all the same giant space squid reaper! If they were in the habit of modeling themselves after species they supposedly consider inferior, why isn't there a prothean reaper? and a diferent kind of reaper for every 50,000yrs or whatever that they invade? Also they're supposed to believe that we're so inferior we deserve to be wiped out, how can they believe that and still want to mimic us? That doesn't make any sense. Not to mention that humans aren't exactly the dominant species in the Galaxy, despite Shepard, the Krogans obviously are superior physically with their redundant systems, every other species has been around galactically for alot longer colonizining way more planets  and must have way higher numbers, plus with the whole Turian mandatory military service our volunteer military with a smaller populace couldn't even be half the size of theirs. It'd be like the entire US Fleet vs the fleet of Iraq, they've got like half a mile of coastline, they're not gonna have a very big Navy. Plus bottom line all that logical thinking stuff aside, I just couldn't picture that giant human skeleton flying through space and not looking dumb. I mean could any of us? Bad call BioWare, no offense, but bad call.

I don't know anything about the whole ME3 being just about earth rumors but it wouldn't suprise me, it's the direction the trend is taking and it's a bad one. I will be very dissapointed come saturday if it's the case. Just look at the chronic deterioration of epic:

ME1 - If Saren/Sovereign makes it to the citadel the entire Reaper fleet will pour into the galaxy and wipe out all sentient life, you are saving the entire galaxy directly by stoping that from happening.

ME2 - You're only directly protecting a handful of unimporant outlying human colonies by stoping some collector aliens that may be indirectly suporting the reapers. So at best you're only indirectly fighting the reapers by disrupting their little side missions that don't really make any sense given the premises anyway.

ME3 - You're protecting only Earth from some sort of Reaper threat huh? This just keeps getting less and less important with each instalation. Their only way into the galaxy is through the citadel anyway, how are they even supposed to get to earth without destroying everyone else anyway? And really, if the Reapers were so big and bad and dangerous as they're supposed to be, one little planet would not rate their attention when they're operating on a galactic scale anyway, no matter what species was on it.

I really thought Mass Effect 2 would about some massive galactic effort to improve technology, build forces, reverse the Citadel mass relay and take the fight to the Reapers in intergalactic space! That would have been EPIC and would top the first game, instead they didn't even live up to the first. And now it looks like they won't be doing so well in 3 either. Hope it's not the case, but by all accounts...

Although to be fair Mass Effect 2 did improve on some things. I've seen a couple posts where people complained that there's less guns in ME2 and while that technically true, just take a second and actually THINK about it. There was more NAMES of guns in ME1, and more COLORS of guns, more LEVELS of guns, but only two actuall shapes of guns, and bottom line when you pulled out your assault riffle no matter what name shape color level etc. it was it acted exactly like any othe assault riffle in the game, just with different stats. So there wasn't really any variety at all, it was all the same thing by a different name. In ME2 there's WAY more variety, sure there's less NAMES of guns, but bottom line when you pull out whatever weapon fits into your assualt riffle slot, it's going to act in a unique way that is different from any other weapon the game of the same type. Each specific weapon has a completely different function from any other and causes you to use it a distinctly different type of play than any other weapon so REALLY there's way more guns in ME2. Just one example, alot of other ways in which ME2  really let us down. I think I'm going to write a review that deals with each different element of the gameplay and how it improved or deteriorated from ME1 to ME2.

Nice reply! I will give a more full reply later on cause right now I'm eating pancakes. I will just add that the series does seemed to have changed from the original Oraganic vs Senthetic life that was talked about before ME1 came out to this whole new Humanity vs the Reapers that ME2 set up and ME3 will finish off.

[Ship.wreck_]

Meh, I always thought a Reaper mass invasion of the galaxy would be so devastating that it couldn't be stopped once it started, and that's why it was so critical to stop it from hapening in game one.

The idea of a reaper invasion being a slow planet hop small enough in scale to focus on one species with relatively few colonies compared to all the others makes the whole idea less scary. and therefore reduces suspense etc.

Plus I always thought it would be cooler to take the fight to the reapers, mass relay some sort of super nuke up their butts, followed by a darkspace invasion force, suck on that!

BTW aren't the mass relays just giant mass accellerator guns? We should just hijack those things and start blindfiring small planetoids into darkspace mwahahahahaha!

[MajesticJazz]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Mass Effect was always about saving humans. Shepard is human. You didn't complete the game by dying repeatedly.

Jzadek72 wrote...

The game has always been about humanity's place in the universe. The game will be the Reaper versus the galaxy, but it'll be humanity that is right at the centre, because that's what Mass Effect is about.

WRONG!

"Two of the game's key themes are organic life vs. artificial life and nature vs. technology." - In Describing Mass Effect way back in 2005, Source: IGN

Mass Effect at least originally was more about a much more larger theme/issue, not a personal humanity thing that it has become since ME2.

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 11 décembre 2010 - 04:07 .

[ArcanistLibram]

MajesticJazz wrote...

"Two of the game's key themes are organic life vs. artificial life and nature vs. technology." - In Describing Mass Effect way back in 2005, Source: IGN

Mass Effect at least originally was more about a much more larger theme/issue, not a personal humanity thing that it has become since ME2.

So Shepard becoming a Spectre (i.e., the event that initially launches the plot), alien concerns about humanity's expansion, humanity getting a seat on the Council, humanity destroying Harbinger, humanity taking over C-Sec, humanity stepping in to patrol Citadel space, human colonies coming under attack and human dominance in the galaxy through the Collector base (or protecting humanity's soul by destroying) are all peripheral? 

And really, nature vs technology? How the hell did IGN get that? At no point in either Mass Effect 1 or 2 is there any conflict between technology and nature. Unless you count all those natural environmental hazards.

Organic life vs artificial life was debunked in Mass Effect 2. It's not about organic vs artificial. It's about self-determination vs pre-determination. Reapers want organic species to evolve along pre-determined paths, so Shepard rebelled against them while Saren decided to go along with their plans. The Quarians wanted the Geth to live pre-determined lives as slave labour, so the Geth rebel. Same with every other rogue AI. Souvereign wanted to elevate with the Geth with Reaper technology and some accepted while other Geth decided to elevate themselves through their own technology no matter how long it took. Everyone's cool with EDI doing what she wants, so there's no need for her to go rogue and kill everyone on the Normandy.

[BrotherArdis]

As for the OP's post. I think the description in the link states it pretty clear. You're uniting the races of the galaxy against the Reapers. If that's not Galaxy vs Reapers I seriously don't know what is. Earth (or Earth's orbit more likely) is going to be the final battleground, but I don't see how that makes it Humanity vs Reapers.

And the ME series has always been very much human-centric. In the first game it's a HUMAN spectre on a HUMAN warship pursuing a rogue Citadel agent because a HUMAN world had been attacked. Yeah, the reason for the attack was a Prothean device, but were it not located on a human world, the entire plot of ME1 wouldn't have happened. Then the plot continues with Shepard being the main protagonist because he and a few other HUMANS are the only ones who believe the threat is real. The aliens who tag along are only sidekicks, the driving force behind this pursuit is a human. The great quest can only be finished thanks to a HUMAN being able to carry and then understand an ancient warning, while at the climax of the great battle, when all seems to be lost, a HUMAN fleet arrives to save the day. I don't even need to go into ME2 as it's been recognized as totally human-centric already.

So seriously, it shouldn't come as a great surprise that ME3 has something 'human' as its focus.

[Googlesaurus]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

So Shepard becoming a Spectre (i.e., the event that initially launches the plot)

Which was actually Saren's assault on Eden Prime, which had everything to do with the Prothean beacon and little to do with the presence of the colony itself. It was likely that Shepard would have become a Spectre just from securing the beacon, except it wouldn't have been a sign of appeasement. 

ArcanistLibram wrote...

alien concerns about humanity's expansion

A neat little lampshading on Bioware's part concerning the "humans are special" bit. Humanity only got to that point because they inadvertently discovered Prothean tech on Mars; humanity was spared a long attrition war against the Turians by the Council. 

ArcanistLibram wrote...

humanity getting a seat on the Council

Because of the actions of one exceptional human and annoying diplomatic pressure. 

ArcanistLibram wrote...

humanity destroying Harbinger

Never happened. Harbinger isn't even dead. And if you meant Sovereign, Shepard put in 90% of the work. 

ArcanistLibram wrote...

humanity taking over C-Sec

Replacements for dead aliens.

ArcanistLibram wrote...

humanity stepping in to patrol Citadel space

Replacements for dead aliens. 

ArcanistLibram wrote...

human colonies coming under attack

Handwaved through nonsensical genetic babble.

ArcanistLibram wrote...

human dominance in the galaxy through the Collector base (or protecting humanity's soul by destroying)

Overblown rhetoric from TIM.

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 11 décembre 2010 - 05:08 .

[Vaenier]

NewMessageN00b wrote...

Well, we know the drill... Earth is lost and Shepard saves the day, end of story.

Okay, next game...?

Sadly, that is how i feel right now...

[Ship.wreck_]

Human-centric = less epic
Galaxy-centric = more epic

Period.

You can argue but your point is already moot. In an epic I always prefer more epic to less. BTW human-centric is a litttle racist: like all the other races in the galaxy that have been way more advanced for way longer than us and vastly outnumber us somehow aren't as important. All because what? One human happens to be cool? Doubtful. Not to metion if it weren't for the Turians and the first contact war we already would've mass accelerated ourselves into a black hole or some ridiculous thing, or unleashed some much more dangerous species and wiped ourselved out already.

[Mr. Man]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Human-centric = less epic
Galaxy-centric = more epic

Period.

You can argue but your point is already moot. In an epic I always prefer more epic to less. BTW human-centric is a litttle racist: like all the other races in the galaxy that have been way more advanced for way longer than us and vastly outnumber us somehow aren't as important. All because what? One human happens to be cool? Doubtful. Not to metion if it weren't for the Turians and the first contact war we already would've mass accelerated ourselves into a black hole or some ridiculous thing, or unleashed some much more dangerous species and wiped ourselved out already.

Mass Effect has always been human-centric. Sheperd is HUMAN, Soveriegn was stopped by HUMANS, the game is played and developed by and for HUMANS. Everyone on the forums overwhelmingly wanted us to visit Earth in ME3. Now we can, the game may be human centric, but it has always been. Besides, it's not like after the Reapers take Earth their gonna be like "Ok, we be beat the squishy humans, let's go home" ALL the Galaxy is in danger.

God, I feel like I'm talking to the Turian councillor

[aeetos21]

it will never, never, NEVER, cease to amaze me what i see on these forums. every change bw made and revealed about me2 before its launch had at least a dozen hardcore fans freaking the hell out. the end result was when me2 was finally released the same fans played the game anyway and loved it despite their freakouts (hell i had quite a few when i first figured out shepard would be wearing a cerberus uniform - subject zero trailer, and then learning that some of my favorite me1 squadmates wouldn't be available as a squaddy for me2. add on the adjustments to the classes and the new thermal clip system and yes I had my fair share of freakouts). this time around i am putting my faith and BW and trusting them that they will do right by us the fans. these freakouts and jumping to conclusions when we know less than one percent of the whole story dont do anyone any good - especially this late in the stage of development.

so do yourself a favor, take a deep breath, and remember how very little you know at this point. as for the counterargument for the reapers only out to get humanity? that's already been clearly stated in this thread

Modifié par aeetos21, 11 décembre 2010 - 05:50 .

[glacier1701]

 I tend to be on Ship.wreck's side here in that the shift in the plot towards a more human centric one reduces the the epic feel that ME1 had. Besides we do know that the ONLY reason that Shepard has been able to do what has been done to the Reapers plans is because of the Protheans. If the Protheans had not improved the Mass relays (Conduit) and discovered how to alter the behaviour of the Keepers then humans would not be classed as "special" as they would have been taken out over two thousand years ago. Quite frankly I am worried that we will have an even worse plotline to deal with in ME3 than what we got in ME2 and that is real cause for concern.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

aeetos21 wrote...

it will never, never, NEVER, cease to amaze me what i see on these forums. every change bw made and revealed about me2 before its launch had at least a dozen hardcore fans freaking the hell out. the end result was when me2 was finally released the same fans played the game anyway and loved it despite their freakouts (hell i had quite a few when i first figured out shepard would be wearing a cerberus uniform - subject zero trailer, and then learning that some of my favorite me1 squadmates wouldn't be available as a squaddy for me2. add on the adjustments to the classes and the new thermal clip system and yes I had my fair share of freakouts). this time around i am putting my faith and BW and trusting them that they will do right by us the fans. these freakouts and jumping to conclusions when we know less than one percent of the whole story dont do anyone any good - especially this late in the stage of development.

so do yourself a favor, take a deep breath, and remember how very little you know at this point. as for the counterargument for the reapers only out to get humanity? that's already been clearly stated in this thread

QFT the way some people are freaking out over a tiny scrap of information is astounding.

Now for a sporting analogy of the situation

Reapers vs Galaxy
Reapers currently losing their battle thanks to some playmaker on the Galaxy side, I'll use an 'American Football' analogy here and say it's the Quarterback.

What's best tactic to do in such a match... I believe the phrase is "Kill the quarterback" right?
Take starplayer out the game, the Reapers can go on to kick Galaxy butt.

It's not Reapers Vs Humans, we're just the current 'starplayer' on Team Galaxy. Anyone that doesn't understand that, clearly hasn't been kicking butt as Shepard.

[Ship.wreck_]

Mr. Man wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Human-centric = less epic
Galaxy-centric = more epic

Period.

You can argue but your point is already moot. In an epic I always prefer more epic to less. BTW human-centric is a litttle racist: like all the other races in the galaxy that have been way more advanced for way longer than us and vastly outnumber us somehow aren't as important. All because what? One human happens to be cool? Doubtful. Not to metion if it weren't for the Turians and the first contact war we already would've mass accelerated ourselves into a black hole or some ridiculous thing, or unleashed some much more dangerous species and wiped ourselved out already.

Mass Effect has always been human-centric. Sheperd is HUMAN, Soveriegn was stopped by HUMANS, the game is played and developed by and for HUMANS. Everyone on the forums overwhelmingly wanted us to visit Earth in ME3. Now we can, the game may be human centric, but it has always been. Besides, it's not like after the Reapers take Earth their gonna be like "Ok, we be beat the squishy humans, let's go home" ALL the Galaxy is in danger.

God, I feel like I'm talking to the Turian councillor

Nope ME1 Saved the citadel from sovereign everybody from invasion. ME2 Saved some minor outlying human colonies from the collectors, thats WAY more human-centric than before any way you slice it, and way less epic. Besides at this point you guys are just referencing anything that has the words humans in it. I could reference anything that has the word any other species in it and have just as long a list, add them together and have a way longer one.

You know what, truth be told, I always wanted to see earth too in the other two games, I was and am very currious about what our homeworld looks like in the ME future. I want to SEE it, on the ground with maybe one or two missions, That doesn't mean the whole Reaper invasion should inexplicably focus on it. They supposedly swept through the entire galaxy in one fell swoop before, why in the world focus on one planet now when they have the rescources to one fell swoop us?

I feel like I'm talking to a Salarian about anything besides a boner contract! My God you've drug me down to your level of nerdiness!

At chick talking about freakouts: this is way less about my faith in BW and way more about randomly speculating on the direction the series may or may not take and wether or not I like it in an abstract and admitedly douchey way... that's on all counts not just mine.

At dude who's on my side: Damn straight!

[Saren100]

[/quote]
You know what, truth be told, I always wanted to see earth too in the other two games, I was and am very currious about what our homeworld looks like in the ME future. I want to SEE it, on the ground with maybe one or two missions, That doesn't mean the whole Reaper invasion should inexplicably focus on it. They supposedly swept through the entire galaxy in one fell swoop before, why in the world focus on one planet now when they have the rescources to one fell swoop us?

[/quote]

The reapers didnt fell swoop anything 

They always snuck in destroying the main core of the fleets of other previous empires who would be assembled around the citadel.

Even after that it took centuries to eradicate civilizations

There was no fell swooping.

[MajesticJazz]

Mr. Man wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Human-centric = less epic
Galaxy-centric = more epic

Period.

You can argue but your point is already moot. In an epic I always prefer more epic to less. BTW human-centric is a litttle racist: like all the other races in the galaxy that have been way more advanced for way longer than us and vastly outnumber us somehow aren't as important. All because what? One human happens to be cool? Doubtful. Not to metion if it weren't for the Turians and the first contact war we already would've mass accelerated ourselves into a black hole or some ridiculous thing, or unleashed some much more dangerous species and wiped ourselved out already.

Mass Effect has always been human-centric. Sheperd is HUMAN, Soveriegn was stopped by HUMANS, the game is played and developed by and for HUMANS. Everyone on the forums overwhelmingly wanted us to visit Earth in ME3. Now we can, the game may be human centric, but it has always been. Besides, it's not like after the Reapers take Earth their gonna be like "Ok, we be beat the squishy humans, let's go home" ALL the Galaxy is in danger.

God, I feel like I'm talking to the Turian councillor

Mass Effect initially was never human centric but rather galactic-centric (if that is even a word) that just happend to have you playing as a Human. The series seemed to shift towards this human-centric attitude with Mass Effect 2.

I agree with Ship.wreck when he says human-centric = less epic. To me, ME2's story suffered because it was too focused on humans, especially coming off of a game (ME1) in which the galaxy was in danger, not humanity.

Just imagine how much more epic and emotional ME2 would have been if Human colonies, Asari Colonies, Turian Colonies, Salarian Colonies etc.... were going missing instead of just humans?

I mean seriously, this whole Space Marine coming in to save Earth from Galactic Invaders is just getting too old. If Earth is the stage for the final battle, then I would be upset. Now if this "Earth Battle" takes place early in the game with the final battle taking place at the Citadel then that would be more epic. I was already a Space Marine saving Earth, that was called Halo 3.....I thought Bioware was more creative....

[Skilled Seeker]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Yes, the generic description says that Earth is burning, so the entire game has to revolve around Earth exclusively. Just like Mass Effect 2 revolved exclusively around human colonies getting attacked by the Collectors, even though you only ever visit two colonies.

Also, Mass Effect has always been about humanity's place in the galaxy.

This.

[Tazzmission]

you know.... what if at the end of me3 humanity takes over the citadel and the council? if this game is gona be class a all out war how do we know alot of species wont go exitinct? shepards story has centered around gaining humanitys trust so what if?

[Ship.wreck_]

MajesticJazz wrote...
I was already a Space Marine saving Earth, that was called Halo 3.....I thought Bioware was more creative....

G*d Damnit! Master Chief was a sailor! Master Chief is a Navy rank! Why will the Navy never get any credit in SciFi even when it's specifically referenced!!!!!????

[Vaenier]

Ship.wreck wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...
I was already a Space Marine saving Earth, that was called Halo 3.....I thought Bioware was more creative....

G*d Damnit! Master Chief was a sailor! Master Chief is a Navy rank! Why will the Navy never get any credit in SciFi even when it's specifically referenced!!!!!????

The Navy evolved to function in space. It was the main military body in Halo, I dont understand what the problem is.