163 réponses à ce sujet

[Tiax Rules All]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Seems to me the the real 'hardcore fans' are story-driven fans rather than 20-ft high finishing leaps fans.

If only it were possible to be both.

sadly it is not. If Bioware developed its fan base off of 20ft high jumps and teleport attacks maybe.. but thier roots lie in D&D

It's true. My warlock can teleport attack, but only jumps 12 feet high and 40 feet across.

oh Maria, snarky as ever,

there were no "warlocks" "teleprt attacks" OR jumping of any kind in Baldurs gate. Sure there were high level spells for invisibility and "gate" or "dimention door" but could not be done by a simple theif. only powerful mages.

[Iberius]

Well, a lot of people don't like the speed in the very short spurts of footage we have seen. Granted no one has had a chance to play it or seen any "official" gameplay footage, so we'll just have to wait and see. Might be better, might be worse.

[Brockololly]

ziggehunderslash wrote..
But yes, it's the one element that I feel really jarrs with the previous experience. But I can see why they would push it overboard, in terms of perceptions, and I find I judge such things upon how comfortable with them after long periods. Maybe it'll grow on me in a way sutblety wouldn't. A concern for me, but not a biggy.

See, I wouldn't mind if the exaggerated bits had the hilariously over the top animations and combat, with a toned down version for the real things. But the "real" combat looks pretty much the same.

Apollo Starflare wrote...

The much vaunted 'teleport' attack is just flicker, but that little detail seems conveniently forgotten most of the time.

The dash attack isn't a teleport.

And I thought flicker and those sorts of effects looked ridiculous in Awakening. I'm fine with magic looking crazy and over the top, but it would be preferable if other non magic abilities could be done with a unique animation that simply makes sense given what the ability is supposed to be- like shield bash: see enemy, you bash them with shield. Except if some of those bootlegs are to go by, they even added goofy speed lines to shield bash now with the enemy flying a good 10 feet backwards like they were on a wire.

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Reactionary force UNITE!

Awesome:wizard:

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...

See, I wouldn't mind if the exaggerated bits had the hilariously over the top animations and combat, with a toned down version for the real things. But the "real" combat looks pretty much the same.

It is the same.  The exaggerated bits remove cooldowns on abilities - in addition to other changes - so you can string together "special" animations far more often than in normal gameplay.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 01:51 .

[Adhin]

I agree pretty much with everything Upsettingshorts has said... mostly everywhere. Its a little disturbing. But I have many memory of my tanks 'shuffling' slowly into place, a few times they would actually shuffle-ping-pong back and forth in between 2 allies because they couldn't grasp how to just slide in between them to start attacking. Which meant I had to manually control them just to get them to do what I wanted them to.

Back with BG1-2 you didn't really have that issue but it was a lot simpler. Warriors and rogues didn't exactly have a lot of special moves going on.And I was used to playing that in a manner where I rarely directly controlled anyone but the mage, and that was only when **** was getting really bad.

One thing I am very happy to see changed, besides the speed of combat, (2H was sloooow) is you can tell a companion where to go via a command wheel pointer now (for consoles, my computers to old and I like controllers) like how PC can just use the mouse to direct and swap back to another character. That was seriously lacking in DAO for consoles. Having to manually direct any movement that wasn't attacking of making something blow up.

Now the only thing I'm hoping is if they still do Backstab bonus the same way (I know there's that TP+Attack for backstabbing quickly skill) they have a varied animation. I literally wont play a rogue manually because he just repeats that same, horrible over-the shoulder stab animation every second at super-stabbing speeds. Looks horrid. Plus hes not using his other dagger! I mean wtf!. And 2 handers, wont use them, you swing them so slow in DAO it goes out of the realm of a more realistic swing which I think they where trying to go for with a lot of the combat animations. And if its going to be unrealistic, I prefer it being FAST not slow.

[Tiax Rules All]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

See, I wouldn't mind if the exaggerated bits had the hilariously over the top animations and combat, with a toned down version for the real things. But the "real" combat looks pretty much the same.

It is the same.  The exaggerated bits remove cooldowns on abilities - in addition to other changes - so you can string together "special" animations far more often than in normal gameplay.

this, the "exageratted part" excuse is way misunderstood

[Apollo Starflare]

Brockololly wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

The much vaunted 'teleport' attack is just flicker, but that little detail seems conveniently forgotten most of the time.

The dash attack isn't a teleport.

And I thought flicker and those sorts of effects looked ridiculous in Awakening. I'm fine with magic looking crazy and over the top, but it would be preferable if other non magic abilities could be done with a unique animation that simply makes sense given what the ability is supposed to be- like shield bash: see enemy, you bash them with shield. Except if some of those bootlegs are to go by, they even added goofy speed lines to shield bash now with the enemy flying a good 10 feet backwards like they were on a wire.

I don't disagree, but Origins had a number of talents that were like that. Scattershot for example. It isn't unique to DA2, and it isn't really a teleport move (it just looks like one, and it always has in the franchise).

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, the fact that an arrow can split up and/or ricochet and stun everyone in a wide area was always hilarious to me. Just as hilarious as I imagine people find the teleporting or fast-charging and what have you. Suspension of disbelief is a pretty subjective thing, as for example the slow two-hander strikes in DA:O killed it for me, as does a silent protagonist in an otherwise fully voiced game. Totally subjective in both cases, same goes for the aesthetics of the changes in DA:2.

[Apollo Starflare]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yeah, the fact that an arrow can split up and/or ricochet and stun everyone in a wide area was always hilarious to me. Just as hilarious as I imagine people find the teleporting or fast-charging and what have you. Suspension of disbelief is a pretty subjective thing, as for example the slow two-hander strikes in DA:O killed it for me, as does a silent protagonist in an otherwise fully voiced game. Totally subjective in both cases, same goes for the aesthetics of the changes in DA:2.

Indeed. I always thought the way the Bard skills worked was kinda hard to believe as well. Didn't stop me using them though! Fear my captivating song, Sten get over hear and bash this ones head in while he listens to me sing!

[Dr. Explosion]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Conall Cameron wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Seems to me the the real 'hardcore fans' are story-driven fans rather than 20-ft high finishing leaps fans.

If only it were possible to be both.

sadly it is not. If Bioware developed its fan base off of 20ft high jumps and teleport attacks maybe.. but thier roots lie in D&D

Doesn't D&D have a jump skill that can be used in combat? and don't it have several spells and magical abilities letting PCs and enemies teleport ?

just sayin'

nice try but clearly you dont understand

No I don't.

And I won't if you don't explain your reasons

While I looooved Origins combat system, combat usually isn't my favorite aspect of any game and if it's unrelenting (like the Star Forge in KoTOR, of the Final Battle in DA:O) , I eventually get sick of it, especially in "old school" style RPGs like KoTOR, BG 2 and DA:O. But if the combat FEELS quicker, like I'm actually controlling my character and actually hacking / blasting the enemies away (like in ME, Oblivion, FO3, FONV, Diablo and clones), I find it more tolerable, even if it's idenitical to "old school" games in every other way.

I know that that prolly doesn't make any sense, so I guess what I'm saying is I like combat more when I feel like I'm in direct control of my dude, so I don't really care how "stylized" they make the combat* as long as the it's everything they say it is and what I'm hoping it's like.


*not true; if it starts looking like an episode of DBZ or Bleach, then I"ll be most displeased

[Tiax Rules All]

Conall Cameron



Im not going to explain, play a D&D game and your mistakes and confusion will be evident

[Adhin]

Agreed Mr. Shorts, though the silent PC I can at least handle now and days, the 2H thing means I literally refuse to play that type of character. Though my companions would still use it since it was there style, and I hate deviating from what a character is perceived as being. It is another odd thing I have going through. I like being able to dress up and modify my companions equipment/skills. But at the same time I realize how STUPID that is. If I was following some dude around on adventures, I would NOT let him dress me up nor would I let him dictate what kind of person I am.

Sure he can tell me to go up on the hill for an advantage point or hold a choke point but its just so bizarre we get that level of controll over what are supposed to be unique, strong willed people. Which is why I kinda like the idea of having less control over party 'outfits'. I think I have that a lot though, enough conflicting likes that I tend to be pretty happy with most things.

-edit-
About DnD - Conall Cameron your right they do have a jump skill. A Rogue at lvl 10 could 100% of the time make a 15 foot jump (though could make a 30 foot jump) with a running start. Or jum[ up 3 feat, with 8 feat of 'reach' for a whoppin' 11 feet min. Max at same jump skill would be 16 feet (8 feet from ground to your feet, 8 feet from ground to your hands for grabbing stuff). That's all with a basic 14 jump skill. There's no rogue only 'feats' that do much of any of that stuff you see in DAO though, plenty of PrC's that do though. They're all usually explained via Psionics or Magic.

Modifié par Adhin, 11 décembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[Ryzaki]

See I love Persona games so the silent protag will never be a problem for me. (And heck if anything is a framed narrative it's the Persona games). You can't change character outfits, can't really change the ending (unless you want the sucky ending) and most things a pretty restrictive. But I don't care because the story is great and the main character doesn't talk. (Also combat is pretty damn fun even though it's turn based). I never found overly actiony combat to be fun (with the exceptions of KH and SO3) it's just tiresome and irritating. I didn't even like DAO's combat to be honest and the fact that it's leaning more towards the action side of the spectrum is worrying.

[inclemency]

Lol, fashion rules, Adhin! I like having my party dressed as they should be (imo) for each part of the game, I'll miss that.



I just have this recurring nightmare of Hawke having Dante moves of the old Devil May Cry.

[Ymladdych]

As someone who's hardly met a pixel she didn't like, and who's also a fan of both Dragon Age: Origins and more action-based franchises like "Ninja Gaiden," "God of War," "Demon's Souls," "Killzone," etc...I have no conceptual problem with the direction they're heading, but I can understand why others would feel concerned about the combat changes if they've never enjoyed those types of games in the past. 

That being said, even I have some criticisms about their execution of the combat changes, based on what I've seen from watching the demo leaks.  The big one for me, as a lot of other people have mentioned, is the lack of transition frames between attack movements; it makes the animation look cheap and jerky.  (And for PC people who might assert that the consoles are to blame, I'd like to point out games like "God of War III" and "Demon's Souls."   DAO never came close to showing what the consoles can do.  Maybe DA2 will come closer, but that remains to be seen.)

Now, contrary to the stereotype of your average "ADD console (pre-menopausal) kiddy," I love the DA franchise for the story, and as long as that's all in place, the rest is just window dressing for me.  Point and click, shuffle-shuffle, swipe?  Fine.  Button-mashing, charge, flip off a boulder, backstab with 20% of the frames missing?  No problem.  It's all the same; just give me awesome characters and an intriguing story.

[Altima Darkspells]

What I dislike about where combat seems to be heading is that it seems to be shifting from your character's skill in combat to your personal skill with combat (aka, button-mashing).  As I am horribly uncoordinated and prefer to make my battle monkeys do all the hard work, it gets rather annoying.  I mean, if I wanted that type of game, I could buy one of the dozens of hack 'n slash, action RPGs, or shooters that come out every year.

However, I will admit that I haven't played DA2 and that the only combat I have seen are from the leaked videos.  Still, that's all I have to go on until BioWare releases some official videos.  Of course, it'll be months until we get a PC video...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

there were no "warlocks" "teleprt attacks" OR jumping of any kind in Baldurs gate. Sure there were high level spells for invisibility and "gate" or "dimention door" but could not be done by a simple theif. only powerful mages.

How about traps that could stop time?

[Kreid]

I like the concept.
I don't like the strange attack effects, like it lacks frames betweeen animations.
I have faith in Bioware though!

Modifié par Creid-X, 11 décembre 2010 - 02:17 .

[Xewaka]

Ymladdych wrote...

*snip*  The big one for me, as a lot of other people have mentioned, is the lack of transition frames between attack movements; it makes the animation look cheap and jerky. *Snip*

This is my main problem as well. They didn't speed up the swings, they just removed the swinging part from the animation frame. It doesn't flow naturally, it feels disjointed.

[Adhin]

@inclemency
Yeah its the 'imo' part where I get my own self-conflicted. They arn't us, we shouldn't be incontrol of them. course if I'm given that control I get all gitty and play dress up, erm, in a manly way of course. Plus dev's have said we can buy (I'm guessing 1 per companion) a special outfit/armor for them which probably supersedes whatever outfit they get each 'time jump' in narrative they may end up having. But at least you know there outfits will fit there characters now, and if they like fighting in armor they'll have armor.

Course if you don't agree with there sense of style... well hopefully bioware gives us some convo-options to make fun of them for it

-edit-
Also keep in mind folks it only bottun mashing on consoles, and even as a consoler goer you can tell your character to auto-attack. PC players won't be spaz-clicking anything at all. Dev's have stated this time and time again. And then again after all that just cause people seem to MISS IT EVERYTIME.

It's still stat driven (same ability score as last game) still has a ton of talents and all that. The only major difference is in the removing of shuffling and animations. Some movies I've seen seem to look worse then others. 'Epic in the Making' thing on youtube I saw the animationed seemed more fluid for some reason. Not sure I trust half the movies out there to show the animations properly. Often times that can make things seem more disjointed then it actually is.

Modifié par Adhin, 11 décembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[thegreateski]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

I literally just winced.

[Dr. Explosion]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Conall Cameron

Im not going to explain, play a D&D game and your mistakes and confusion will be evident

Pen and paper D&D or a CRPG like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights?

I've never played P&P D&D, but I have played every game BioWare has made since BG2.

No, BioWare D&D games don't have jumping, (with the exception of Jade Empire, no BioWare game has and it's been a pet peeve of mine for a long time), and there was no player teleporting in BG 2 or NWN (certain enemies could though). However, D&D DOES include mechanics for them (check here www.d20srd.org/), and the Player Resource Consortium for NWN does such an amazing job of integrating them into the game, along with a butt load of other stuff, that I consider it to be mandatory for playing NWN.


So, what exctly am I mistaken and confused aboot? Are you just anti jumping and teleporting?

[Maria Caliban]

Adhin wrote...

Also keep in mind folks it only bottun mashing on consoles, and even as a consoler goer you can tell your character to auto-attack. PC players won't be spaz-clicking anything at all.

Which is unfortunate. Of course, given that you call it 'spaz-clicking,' that lack of option is probably not a loss for you.

[rabbitchannel]

I watched the previews and was pretty impressed but I have to ask: does anyone know if the jumping are rolling around are part of the talents or is it a command? The way the character moved really makes it seem like a command. If it is, I'll be a little worried, but still okay. d:

[MerinTB]

What is this wrote...
Dragon age origins was not responsive at all, just because combat is better dosen't mean they're dumbing anything down.

I'm tempted to pull out some sophistry and pretend to argue about "responsive" and how you can no more define that than you can what a "hardcore gamer" is or what an "RPG" is...

but as I despise the tactic, and hypocrites, I won't.

Suffice to say, as many have mentioned, it mostly boils down to personal taste and preference.

The way combat looks, how people imagine it will play, is to the liking of some and not so to others.

Some who have gotten to actually demo the game have both liked and disliked it.

There is no "wrong" taste in gaming, as far as something like this goes.

I, personaly, prefer to think out my moves, take time, and have stats and plans decide combat.  I dislike fast action combat, hitting buttons rapidly, needing reaction timing on my part... I don't want the combat to be based on my own manual dexterity and finger pressing speed.

I think it should be perfectly acceptable for me to not like that, and to voice my dislike of it.

Just like it should be perfectly acceptable to LIKE that, and to voice continued support of that.

[inclemency]

Just as long and the story kicks butt, we'll be fine......well, we would be if we could give the female party members pants! lol