163 réponses à ce sujet

[Iberius]

Awww come on guys.........have some faith in the devs. Lol go for optimism . I haven't been let down by bioware yet and there is no way I'm not gonna let 5 second clips of gameplay make my decision for me as to whether the new fighting style is good or bad.

[Monica83]

Why? Simple its look horrible...

Where is the battle sense? Where is the immersion when you have character that makes ridicolus moves that look like some crap anime ariund and when you have silly teleport effect ala naruto? It looks ridicolus and scream fake in evrymove.. It reminded much some teleport moves of the monk in diablo3 gameplay videdo... I prefear more slower fight with more realistical moves then no sense move with animation that are so fast and skip frames... This gameplay don't sounds responsive for me but only broken..but this is a minor thing if you see they are cutted down also roleplay elements... since this is not dragon age its a lot more a Dragon effect with naruto moves...

[Vylan Antagonist]

Monica83 wrote...

Why? Simple its look horrible...
... This gameplay don't sounds responsive for me but only broken...

Monica, from what I understand, you are one of the few of us who needn't rely on how it looks or sounds; You've already played it, correct?

[biomag]

Am I the only one who things it looks just like the original combat system from DA:O? It just took out the lag between clicking and performing the action. I don't see anything special about it. I really doubt the players would have noticed anything besides the new animations if Bioware wouldn't have made such a big stir about it.

[nightcobra]

biomag wrote...

Am I the only one who things it looks just like the original combat system from DA:O? It just took out the lag between clicking and performing the action. I don't see anything special about it. I really doubt the players would have noticed anything besides the new animations if Bioware wouldn't have made such a big stir about it.

no, you're not the only one;). 

[Monica83]

I played the demo at lucca comix and games...

[nightcobra]

Monica83 wrote...

I played the demo at lucca comix and games...

federico and apollostarfire also played the game...and liked it, were they wrong then? no, they weren't and neither are you. there is no such thing as a universally liked game.

[Vylan Antagonist]

Monica83 wrote...

I played the demo at lucca comix and games...

So how did it feel? Did it play like an Action RPG? Were you able to move away from enemy attacks, then come back in with your own? Did it seem like your skill at moving and attacking with good timing mattered more than your character's stats?

[Ziggeh]

Brockololly wrote...

Its a moot point now, but its odd given how most other games coming out early next year have already had a good deal of material released and still, DA2 has next to nothing of substance out there.

Not that this is a huge point, because I essentially agree, it does seem a little odd right now, but marketing is a wooly business. Making judgements based on other campaigns is never going to work well. I suspect what they're doing is holding back the budget to hit do a huge blitz, while keeping a slow boil on people who are actively looking by drip feeding info.

[Vylan Antagonist]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

federico and apollostarfire also played the game...and liked it, were they wrong then? no, they weren't and neither are you. there is no such thing as a universally liked game.

To be fair, Federico disliked the combat gameplay in DA:O and greatly preferred the more action-oriented feel of DA2. That's heartening for people who wanted a more twitch-based style of play, but it doesn't really address how the game plays as a pause-based tactical game.

[Monica83]

Vylan the combat feels much more responsive indeed the real problem was ennemy act normal and have better animation than your character and party members the first thing i noticed when i see the first darkspawn is how they move and hit and when hawke start sto gives blow (i selected the rougue) you have the sensation that the anims are complete out of tones and related to others ennemy anims they look like from a different game... If you add things like teleport effect in the rush of the rougue or in the charge of the warrior that seems much more an hack and slash and in my case this heeeeem "features" brokes totally my immersion on the game..The combat in fact looks responsive but horribile with anime moves and silly teleport effect the only nice thing i seen in the new anims are the difference to female/male walking or running... But the combat still looks horrible the anims are too much fast and you have the impressions they skip frames... Also this stupid comic effects like the lines when you charge or other silly things remind me street fighter moves effect.. But its ok to see them in street fighter street fighter is cartoonish but see them in dragon age game make you feel them complete out of tone...

[Wulfram]

Aesthetically, it seems to be too showy, trying too hard to be "awesome". Flipping around looks silly to me, and even minor details like how people are holding their weapons seems off to me.

I don't have any major concerns about the gameplay itself, though I worry that all the emphasis on allowing people to get into close combat quickly will devalue ranged weapons.  edit: I didn't think DA:O combat on the whole needed speeding up, but I've got a pause button so it shouldn't be a problem.

Modifié par Wulfram, 11 décembre 2010 - 03:10 .

[Monica83]

And i have nothing aganist animations speed if they are well done but those looks much more broken stylish anims..

About the teleport effect someone thinks are awesome because they ar an abstraction of a move.. Since i don't like abstraction in a combat situation make me laugh only... Just immagine that...

Darkspawns are coming
Rougue Hawke: Slash slash slash* *teleport* *from benhind:slash slash slash*

For me its something demential to see and reminds me the naruto teleport evading effect with the difference that the wooden log don't appear...

This things are ugly to see...

Someone thinks also that jumps in the sky and touch the sun to fallen down and cut your ennemy in two part is COOOOOOOOOOOOOWL!

Nah not for me.. its only a mindless stupid move

At the end i want see if mage can't teleport...
If they can't i make the most epic laugh ever

Modifié par Monica83, 11 décembre 2010 - 03:22 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

I played the demo at lucca comix and games...

So how did it feel? Did it play like an Action RPG? Were you able to move away from enemy attacks, then come back in with your own? Did it seem like your skill at moving and attacking with good timing mattered more than your character's stats?

I'll add my 50p too if you don't mind.

This is one thing that I keep trying to get across when the hack n slash threads pop up: The combat does not involve dodging, blocking or twitch style gameplay, you still engage the enemy and rely on your stats, abilities and items to defeat them. Tactics too, although in the demo we were obviously limited in options, I still found it important to set my tank into her stance and have my mage using the correct spells in order to more efficiently defeat the area's boss for instance.

The big difference is the responsivness, which can seem to make the combat handle differently until you get to grips with it and realise it really is just like Origins at it's core. Beyond the new animations, abilities, and responsive actions it plays (to me) very much like it's predecessor.

One last detail: Just to make it clear, you can move away from enemy attacks and have them miss now, but it isn't designed around that style of play. The only move available designed to some extent to play off this is the rogue's backflip which is handy for getting out of a tight spot, or in some cases surprising an enemy. If anything it'll be most noticable to those who like to kite enemies (which was possible in Origins too).

[JamieCOTC]

I haven't played it, so I may yet like it, but the exaggerated battle scenes from the demo look too much like Fable 3. Fable combat in Fable = cool. Fable combat in DA2 = pathetic attempt to rip off another game's style. I don't know if that is what they are doing, but it certainly looks that way.

[fchopin]

After watching the dev diary from gamespot i am still in shock over the combat.

[TMZuk]

What is this wrote...

Conall Cameron wrote...

Have you played the FINAL version of the game yet? Do you know for a fact it's better?

no but i've read the previews and they've all said the same thing.
More responsive and actually feels like you're playing the game rather than commanding you PC to attack.

Ohh... you mean that DA:O worked as an RPG where it is your character's skills that count, while you suspect DA2 will be like a shooter, utilizing you own skills?

While I suspect you are right, without knowing it, that is the -very- reason I don't like the new combat, combined with the fact that what I have seen so far looks utterly horrible. Fighters hitting multiple opponents with one swing, or having shimmering forcefields in front of their shields. Rogues doing ridiculous flips and rolls in the middle of combat. It looks like a ripoff off some decades old arcade game, such as Golden Axe, except it is 3D instead of 2D.

Modifié par TMZuk, 11 décembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Futancy]

For me, the combat reflects a large portion of the "feel" of the world.

DA:O felt like a real fantasy world, in that a world where there was magic, fantasy races, but still a strong core root of reality: racism, bloodshed, armies clashing, political intrigue. The combat, in ways, reflected that: all of the warriors moves were things I could conceivably see a warrior doing, in a realistic fantasy world. The rogue followed suit, and the mage gets to break reality by their nature.

In the previews for DA2, we see things such as a fighter jumping 20 feet and stabbing into an enemy. To me, that ridiculously over-the-top sort of combat is what I expect from testosterone fueled gorefests like God of War, but not of a realistic fantasy world. The reason the change in combat is -really- turning me off is how over-the-top and unnecessary it appears to be in the previews. They seem to be going for bad-ass superhero more than real, exceptional persons in a fantasy world.

That is not to say that the new combat is inherently bad, but it looks like it will ruin immersion for people like myself, and so I personally have no interest in DA2 because of that. 

So, again, comes down to tastes and all that. 

Modifié par Futancy, 11 décembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[Graunt]

Conall Cameron wrote...

Have you played the FINAL version of the game yet? Do you know for a fact it's better than DA:O?

It wouldn't take much for it to be a vast improvement over the first game at all; which played like every single other top down/isometric RPG -- but worse, with some of the worst AI imaginable.  I don't care about "immersion" if the actual gameplay sucks, and the gameplay of the first game often sucked.  You either had to play it through pausefest or pull your hair out as your companions constantly did some of the dumbest things ever, even with a perfectly setup tactics list.

Modifié par Graunt, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:05 .

[tishyw]

filetemo wrote...

the thing I dislike about the new combat is the apparent low framerate of animations shown in the footage. It looks clunky for the sake of looking cooler and faster. I also dislike the "flashing beams" that come out of your weapon when you strike with a special talent, it looks like those old shinobi games where a sword slash unleashed a fire wave with a crappy midi sound attached to it.

This, a world of this, plus unrealistic jumps and back-flips. 

In a game that's supposed to be a realistic fantasy, stop motion animation combat takes me out of the game world.  The devs have said that they're going after the Gods of War and Fable 3 fans, and this combat is the result.

Which is fine if you like that style of combat, sadly for me, I'm not a big fan of it.

[AlanC9]

Graunt wrote...
You either had to play it through pausefest or pull your hair out as your companions constantly did some of the dumbest things ever, even with a perfectly setup tactics list.

What makes you so sure that your tactics setup was perfect? They weren't working well, after all.

Also, you do know that some folks want the game to be a pausefest, right? 

[CaptainSpandex]

I've watched quietly until I actually was able to play a bit and I've finally arrived at my conclusion:
It seems to me that BioWare is making the same mistake Ubisoft is making with Splinter Cell:
Removing too many things, rather than adding new, good things.

People liked those things! That's why the game sold well! Origins was like the perfect repudiation of what has been happening to the RPG genre! It was almost defiantly tactical and cerebral, in a market where modern RPGs have been embracing third-person (and first-person) shooting and dispensing with tactics and thinking.

Add things.

Don't remove them.

[biomag]

I also see the biggest difference being the combat animation. Neither the tactics nor the gameplay were changed. I ain't a fan of those combat animations, mainly because I did martial arts too and there is an incredible beauty in perfect realistic combat motions. A mix of balance, simple effectiveness and fluency that none of these anime-type action animations were ever able to capture. I far more enjoyed Assassin's Creed's 1 and 2 fighting animations than those teleporting parts or big jumps we could see in the diary.



...but that's a question about style, design and art and not the combat system itself. If you liked the way it worked at DA:O you will like it at DA2 too. It just doesn't mean that you will enjoy the presentation. I don't like what I have seen so far as I also wasn't impressed by the graphic style that looks to me too much like a comic, but well, that's the way it goes with different tastes.

[Rogue Unit]

I, personally, am glad to be rid of the gorilla shuffling combat of DA:O. When I attack an enemy I want to do it right away and not shuffle around like a confused 72 year-old in a nursing home before attacking.



If that is the definition of "dumbing down" so be it.

[Ziggeh]

Futancy wrote...


DA:O felt like a real fantasy world, in that a world where there was magic, fantasy races, but still a strong core root of reality: racism, bloodshed, armies clashing, political intrigue. The combat, in ways, reflected that: all of the warriors moves were things I could conceivably see a warrior doing, in a realistic fantasy world. The rogue followed suit, and the mage gets to break reality by their nature.

Realistic abilities such as "scattershot", "aura of pain", "captivating song" and "flicker".

Don't get me wrong, I think the animations seem fairly jarring with the previous experience, but lets not pretend we weren't suspending our disbelief to begin with.