1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

[snipawesome]

This post was a lot of win and agree. I still headdesk at breasts-as-shorthand, but I can see how it would make the message of "sexy" more expedient. Fortunately games seem to be heading towards a wonderful future full of subtlety...

As for your last paragraph, double standarrrd! It probably is meant to serve the same purpose but people don't see man-chest in the same light as they do lady-chest. A guy could be topless and get less flak than Isabela, most likely. I'm glad I wasn't here when Jack was revealed >_> As far as Thane goes, his majestic green cleavage sold me the game, so uh. *cough* Sex as a marketing strategy indeed.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[Maria Caliban]

Sharn01 wrote...

If I am remembering her right she has never cared about guys in general. Think she even said the same things back on the NWN forums.

You are remembering correctly.

Pseudocognition wrote...

I understand what you meant, no criticism intended towards you. I leapt from your mention of breasts to the general attitude you mention in your last point, then facepalmed at the general attitude.

Awesome!

How are your finals going?

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

I understand what you meant, no criticism intended towards you. I leapt from your mention of breasts to the general attitude you mention in your last point, then facepalmed at the general attitude.

Awesome!

How are your finals going?

lSKjdf. *gurgledie* We'll see when they're over ;_; Thank you for reminding me asking.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:05 .

[upsettingshorts]

Pseudocognition wrote...

As for your last paragraph, double standarrrd! It probably is meant to serve the same purpose but people don't see man-chest in the same light as they do lady-chest. A guy could be topless and get less flak than Isabela, most likely.

I think I've gussed before as to the reason that double standard exists is because the female standard of beauty - such as it is - is almost entirely sexual, and the masculine standard of beauty is more utilitarian.  In the latter, form and function aren't in as much conflict.  I'm sure that implies something, but I don't want to get too far off topic - plus psychosexual theory's not really my wheelhouse anyway. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[Maria Caliban]

BrotherWarth wrote...


You left out the rest of my post.

Check again.  I type out my stuff in a different window and didn't manage to post it all at once.

I mentioned that the writers had less time to flesh out these new characters. I don't doubt that they are talented writers. I loved the characters and story of Origins. But I'm also realistic. You can't just make a great character over night. Characters start out as ideas and you have think about their character traits and their motivations and their personality over a long period of time to make a great character. And my cynicism isn't unfounded. I thought most of the ME2 characters were rushed and one dimensional. And they had less time to write ME2 than they did ME1.

Well, Isabela appeared in DA:O. She's actually existed in Sheryl's mind for several years now.

As for the others, maybe you're right.

Personally, I see the characters in ME 2 as generally being superior to those of ME 1.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:13 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

As for your last paragraph, double standarrrd! It probably is meant to serve the same purpose but people don't see man-chest in the same light as they do lady-chest. A guy could be topless and get less flak than Isabela, most likely.

I think I've gussed before as to the reason that double standard exists is because the female standard of beauty - such as it is - is almost entirely sexual, and the masculine standard of beauty is both more utilitarian.  In the latter, form and function aren't in as much conflict.  I'm sure that implies something, but I don't want to get too far off topic - plus psychosexual theory's not really my wheelhouse anyway. 

Sounds about right to me, and I remember the last time you posted that. It helped me put words to some ideas, so, thank you.

[Esbatty]

But they've been working on DA2 while DAO wasn't even finished PLUS this is franchise and not a trilogy so the idea that they spent years building up Thedas for not just a handful of games but entire catalogue of spin-offs and offshoots in addition to straight sequels goes to show that they're invested for the long run. Budgets and story/concept revisions as each game and media entry arises is where things can get changed up.



Wait this thread was about boobs right? What the hell am I doin' being serious?

[The Big Nothing]

My theory is that all of this bitterness stems from people not being accepted in real life, and so they try to compensate by living vicariously through fully-customizable fictional characters. They become as shallow as the people who hurt them, fixating on superficialities. So, so sad.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is: if the girls get a breast slider, I want a crotch slider for guys.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:20 .

[TeaCokeProphet]

The Big Nothing wrote...

My theory is that all of this bitterness stems from people not being accepted in real life, and so they try to compensate by living vicariously through fully-customizable fictional characters. So, so sad.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is: if the girls get a breast slider, I want a crotch slider for guys.

[Piecake]

Maria Caliban wrote...



As for the others, maybe you're right.

Personally, I see the characters in ME 2 as generally being superior to those of ME 1.

Agreed, I thought ME 2's characters were one of its strong suits.  I really didn't find any of the ME 1 companions terribly interesting, though the antagonists were quite good. 

[upsettingshorts]

The Big Nothing wrote...

My theory is that all of this bitterness stems from people not being accepted in real life, and so they try to compensate by living vicariously through fully-customizable fictional characters. They become as shallow as the people who hurt them, fixating on superficialities. So, so sad.

My theory is that attempting psychological diagnoses of strangers on the internet has about a 0% success rate.  Doesn't mean I haven't tried in the past; just that I got the impression after a while that it was not only a waste of time, but also totally futile.

...well, that and the fact I'm not a trained psychiatrist or psychologist.  Are you?  Because that would just compound the odds of your being in error.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[TeaCokeProphet]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

My theory is that attempting psychological diagnoses of strangers on the internet has about a 0% success rate.  Doesn't mean I haven't tried in the past; just that I got the impression after a while that it was not only a waste of time, but also totally futile.

...well, that and the fact I'm not a trained psychiatrist or psychologist.  Are you?  Because that would just compound the odds of your being in error.

I think he's expressing a self-examination by pretending to talk about the posters. Although, you could be joking about not catching it (DAMN YOU TEXT). Always need to address the possibility of joking.

Always.

[Esbatty]

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

My theory is that all of this bitterness stems from people not being accepted in real life, and so they try to compensate by living vicariously through fully-customizable fictional characters. So, so sad.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is: if the girls get a breast slider, I want a crotch slider for guys.

Thats no codpiece... its a Siege Tower.

[Maria Caliban]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Sounds about right to me, and I remember the last time you posted that. It helped me put words to some ideas, so, thank you.

I don't know if you read superhero comic books, but one of the frequent complaints from feminist readers is that women characters are almost always designed for the male gaze. You get things like a 14-year-old Batgirl who's a short, skinny girl with giganta-boobs strapped into a skintight, spandex outfit.

Frequently during these discussions, someone will point out that male heroes also have perfectly formed bodies strapped in skin tight outfits.

The difference is that these bodies convey strength and power. The Hulk is obviously not drawn to be attractive to women, but to look like he could rip on of your limbs off and beat you with it. Women who show skin aren't treated the same way.

It's not simply a matter of skin. It's body posture and presentation. It's where the camera sits and what the eye is led to.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:30 .

[Piecake]

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

My theory is that attempting psychological diagnoses of strangers on the internet has about a 0% success rate.  Doesn't mean I haven't tried in the past; just that I got the impression after a while that it was not only a waste of time, but also totally futile.

...well, that and the fact I'm not a trained psychiatrist or psychologist.  Are you?  Because that would just compound the odds of your being in error.

I think he's expressing a self-examination by pretending to talk about the posters. Although, you could be joking about not catching it (DAMN YOU TEXT). Always need to address the possibility of joking.

Always.

Clearly we need tone icons to stave off this mass confusion

[The Big Nothing]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

My theory is that all of this bitterness stems from people not being accepted in real life, and so they try to compensate by living vicariously through fully-customizable fictional characters. They become as shallow as the people who hurt them, fixating on superficialities. So, so sad.

My theory is that attempting psychological diagnoses of strangers on the internet has about a 0% success rate.  Doesn't mean I haven't tried in the past; just that I got the impression after a while that it was not only a waste of time, but also totally futile.

...well, that and the fact I'm not a trained psychiatrist or psychologist.  Are you?  Because that would just compound the odds of your being in error.

No, no. This was meant as a joke. I began by analyzing strangers on the internet, talking about over-compensation, followed by my desire to have a penis slider for my own character.

Deep down, it was self-deprecating.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's not simply a matter of skin. It's body posture and presentation. It's where the camera sits and what the eye is led to.

Where the eye is -- oh, Miranda's butt, how did you get in my line of sight?

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's not simply a matter of skin. It's body posture and presentation. It's where the camera sits and what the eye is led to.

That's a good point.  A huge part of the problem I had with say, Miranda, is that she always often looked... posed.   I mean as a video  game character she certainly was, as was everyone, but I didn't really get that impression so much with FemShep (that's even discounting the infamous sitting animation and others she clearly shares with ManShep) or Jack - who moved around sort of like a caged animal.

[The Big Nothing]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's not simply a matter of skin. It's body posture and presentation. It's where the camera sits and what the eye is led to.

That's a good point.  A huge part of the problem I had with say, Miranda, is that she always often looked... posed.   I mean as a video  game character she certainly was, as was everyone, but I didn't really get that impression so much with FemShep (that's even discounting the infamous sitting animation and others she clearly shares with ManShep) or Jack - who moved around sort of like a caged animal.

Some of this stuff, admittedly, is deliberately sexual, but c'mon, sex sells. It's a universal demographic. Everybody who can do it, does do it. It's the only reason we know we are alive, 'cause it's the only way to perpetuate life. So enjoy it. Mmm.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:41 .

[upsettingshorts]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Some of this stuff, admittedly, is deliberately sexual, but c'mon, sex sells. We all like it, even if we don't admit it. It's the only reason we KNOW we are alive, 'cause it's the only way to perpetuate life. Enjoy it. Mmm.

Yes and no.

Yes: "I can't admire your body?" *camera pans over Miranda*
No:  "Help me rescue my sister." * Miranda's ass fills a third of the screen*

*imagines you're joking about something but is too tired and slightly drunk to notice anymore*

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:42 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Jack - who moved around sort of like a caged animal.

Quick off topic -- Jack was probably the most insanely realistic looking character in that game, IMO. Eyes and lips moved naturally, no hair to look stiff and weird. Even in hindsight she's ridiculously well done. *still impressed*

[Liyros]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Sounds about right to me, and I remember the last time you posted that. It helped me put words to some ideas, so, thank you.

I don't know if you read superhero comic books, but one of the frequent complaints from feminist readers is that women characters are almost always designed for the male gaze. You get things like a 14-year-old Batgirl who's a short, skinny girl with giganta-boobs strapped into a skintight, spandex outfit.

Frequently during these discussions, someone will point out that male heroes also have perfectly formed bodies strapped in skin tight outfits.

The difference is that these bodies convey strength and power. The Hulk is obviously not drawn to be attractive to women, but to look like he could rip on of your limbs off and beat you with it. Women who show skin aren't treated the same way.

It's not simply a matter of skin. It's body posture and presentation. It's where the camera sits and what the eye is led to.

That's an excellent way of articulating my complaints about female design and my er..previous TOR comment that got some attention while I was away. This thread here basically verbalizes what I meant with that offhand remark.

Anywho..

[mellifera]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Some of this stuff, admittedly, is deliberately sexual, but c'mon, sex sells. We all like it, even if we don't admit it. It's the only reason we KNOW we are alive, 'cause it's the only way to perpetuate life. Enjoy it. Mmm.

Yes and no.

Yes: "I can't admire your body?" *camera pans over Miranda*
No:  "Help me rescue my sister." * Miranda's ass fills a third of the screen*

*imagines you're joking about something but is too tired and slightly drunk to notice anymore*

It killed me that the investigate option was right on her butt too.

[Piecake]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Sounds about right to me, and I remember the last time you posted that. It helped me put words to some ideas, so, thank you.

I don't know if you read superhero comic books, but one of the frequent complaints from feminist readers is that women characters are almost always designed for the male gaze. You get things like a 14-year-old Batgirl who's a short, skinny girl with giganta-boobs strapped into a skintight, spandex outfit.

Frequently during these discussions, someone will point out that male heroes also have perfectly formed bodies strapped in skin tight outfits.

The difference is that these bodies convey strength and power. The Hulk is obviously not drawn to be attractive to women, but to look like he could rip on of your limbs off and beat you with it. Women who show skin aren't treated the same way.

It's not simply a matter of skin. It's body posture and presentation. It's where the camera sits and what the eye is led to.

Would you find a picture of a man that accentuates his package/butt in some sort of sexy posture more alluring than the superman/batman style pose though?  I am actually curious about this since Id think that a picture of an actractive man conveying strength and power(meaning confidence) would be more attractive than an overtly sexual picture to most women.  (If its a misconception, I blame the nudist girlfriend Sienfield episode)