1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

The caged animal body language fit Jack extremely well. Miranda's not so much.She wasn't a femme fatale, she didn't flaunt her body and yet the camera acted like she did at the oddest times.

Like the sister conversation. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[upsettingshorts]

BrotherWarth wrote...

The only ME2 characters that I felt had any depth were Jack, Grunt and Mordin. The rest were cardboard

Jacob had depth, he just wasn't "interesting" and I do not blame FemShep players for simply avoiding him entirely.  I would dispute that "comes off as a cool dude with a good head on his shoulders that I'd like to get a beer with and would definitely have my back, but is ambivalent about his role with Cerberus" isn't a deep character.

Samara, Thane, Legion (as representative of his race), Tali - etc - all of the non DLC ones were really well done.  Kasumi and Zaeed, for what they were, weren't bad either.  

BrotherWarth wrote...
IMO.

Ah, right.  Disregard the above heh.  Anyway...

The on-topic question is though what if anything their outfits either contributed to or detracted from their characters.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:49 .

[Xewaka]

After reading twenty pages of topic in a sitting, there we go with quotes ahoy!

Upsettingshorts wrote...
They could very easily lampshade fixed outfits though as the character's "adventuring clothes" that they put on when they go out to get into fights with Qunari and such. The narrative gives enough leeway to make that assumption just as believable as "they eat and go to the bathroom when we're not looking."
Maybe changing into pajamas at home is one of the "exceptional" changes they make. We just don't have the info.

The problem is, what Isabela seems to consider adventure clothes I consider “wild night out” clothes. I
have no problem with her wearing that when we're at the hub relaxing. I have a problem with going essentially naked against pointy sharpy sticks.

thedistortedchild wrote...
My one trepidation is that My Fem-shep was the only female on the Normandy who dressed appropriately. She wore a helmet in space, and she didn't have a belt-bra for armor. I don't want that to be the
same with my fem-Hawke. This worries me because Isabela's outfit looks like the DA2 belt-bra. To me this means that Bella sits in the camp, just like Jack and Miranda did when I played ME2. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png

It's good to see I'm not the only one who believe people who expect combat should equip appropiately to
said task.

Apollo Starflare wrote...
Seriously though, I can't see how DA2 is a regression of the portrayal of women in computer games. They based Aveline off of a male model for starters and it really is only Isabela who is dressed in any way that could be considered 'inappropriate' by the more prudish players, considering her background I consider her outfit very much in keeping with her personality anyway.

My problem with Isabela's outfit isn't that it's inappropiate. My problem with her outfit is that it's not battle worthy. If she wore the outfit we've been when hanging around the city and then slipped to a leather cuirass when going looking for trouble at a dungeon, I'd have no problem with her. The fact that she believes herself inmune to arrows and blades is what bothers me.

BrotherWarth wrote...
My concern with this sort of design is that it tells me the developerst hink I'm stupid. Dialogue and actions can tell you everything you need to know about a character, so the developers saying that we need their outfits to express their personality is like saying we can't understand these characters without visual cues.

I'll have to dig up Gaider's quote where he says than personality and dialogue are the important parts of characterization, and then trips over himself when questioned the need of fixed outfits.

Pseudocognition wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Why doesn't Varric button his shirt?  Is his chesthair and strong jaw meant to compensate for his short stature and make him appear more typically masculine?  Just ad libbing that one, but it seems somewhat consistent with that same premise.  

He's just about as appropriately dressed for battle as Isabela is. I approve.

However, Varric uses a crossbow, fighting at a distance, where cover becomes more important than armor. Isabela at melee range has no such excuse.

Modifié par Xewaka, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:51 .

[The Big Nothing]

yukidama wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Some of this stuff, admittedly, is deliberately sexual, but c'mon, sex sells. We all like it, even if we don't admit it. It's the only reason we KNOW we are alive, 'cause it's the only way to perpetuate life. Enjoy it. Mmm.

Yes and no.

Yes: "I can't admire your body?" *camera pans over Miranda*
No:  "Help me rescue my sister." * Miranda's ass fills a third of the screen*

*imagines you're joking about something but is too tired and slightly drunk to notice anymore*

It killed me that the investigate option was right on her butt too.

Shepard is almost the James Bond of sci-fi; the guy has ****** flying at him left and right. This I understand.

What really bothers me is the notion that violence is preferable to sex. We have games like "Manhunt" and "Grand Theft Auto" where you brutally and ruthlessly murder (sometimes innocent) people, yet we have a brief non-nude inter-species love scene in Mass Effect, and everybody goes insane. It really does bother me.
What kind of society giggles at a decapitation but winces at a nipple?

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:53 .

[The Big Nothing]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

The only ME2 characters that I felt had any depth were Jack, Grunt and Mordin. The rest were cardboard

Jacob had depth, he just wasn't "interesting" and I do not blame FemShep players for simply avoiding him entirely.  I would dispute that "comes off as a cool dude with a good head on his shoulders that I'd like to get a beer with and would definitely have my back, but is ambivalent about his role with Cerberus" isn't a deep character.

Samara, Thane, Legion (as representative of his race), Tali - etc - all of the non DLC ones were really well done.  Kasumi and Zaeed, for what they were, weren't bad either.  

BrotherWarth wrote...
IMO.

Ah, right.  Disregard the above heh.  Anyway...

The on-topic question is though what if anything their outfits either contributed to or detracted from their characters.

I don't get why anyone has a problem with Jacob; I loved his character. And his sidequest with the Gernsback and the Colonel Kurtz-esque father? Oh, man. Good stuff.

[upsettingshorts]

BrotherWarth wrote...

I felt he had no personality

Yeah, I don't get that at all.  But since this isn't the Jacob thread - I'll drop it.  

His outfit was just as bad as Miranda's, but we've covered that double standard.

[Xewaka]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Shepard is almost the James Bond of sci-fi; the guy has ****** flying at him left and right. This I understand.

What really bothers me is the notion that violence is preferable to sex. We have games like "Manhunt" and "Grand Theft Auto" where you brutally and ruthlessly murder (sometimes innocent) people, yet we have a brief non-nude inter-species love scene in Mass Effect, and everybody goes insane. It really does bother me.
What kind of society giggles at a decapitation but winces at a nipple?

We didn't have a problem with nudity here in Europe until them U.S. started exporting their video material to the world. Damn you U.S.A.! *shakes fist*

[Piecake]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Jacob had depth, he just wasn't "interesting" and I do not blame FemShep players for simply avoiding him entirely.  I would dispute that "comes off as a cool dude with a good head on his shoulders that I'd like to get a beer with and would definitely have my back, but is ambivalent about his role with Cerberus" isn't a deep character.

Samara, Thane, Legion (as representative of his race), Tali - etc - all of the non DLC ones were really well done.  Kasumi and Zaeed, for what they were, weren't bad either. 

I'd agree with all of that.  The only companion I found both uniteresting and lacked depth was Garrus.  I found him rather uninspired in ME1 and he remained largely the same in ME2. 

Modifié par Piecake, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:03 .

[upsettingshorts]

Garrus always struck me as Robin to Shepard's Batman. I don't think that's a bad thing per se, but that's just the impression I got.

I mean competent Robin, not comic relief Robin.

...not sure what was going on with his outfit in ME2 though.  Well, at least the paintjob.  *shrug*

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:04 .

[Maria Caliban]

Piecake wrote...

Would you find a picture of a man that accentuates his package/butt in some sort of sexy posture more alluring than the superman/batman style pose though? 

As I already noted, I don't find men attractive at all.

You're asking me if straight women like posing? Some do, yes. Have you seen some of the art on the MEG thread? None of it has him in a superhero pose.

I am actually curious about this since Id think that a picture of an actractive man conveying strength and power(meaning confidence) would be more attractive than an overtly sexual picture to most women.  (If its a misconception, I blame the nudist girlfriend Sienfield episode)

That's sort of beside the point.

Ryzaki wrote...

The caged animal body language fit Jack extremely well. Miranda's not so much.She wasn't a femme fatale, she didn't flaunt her body and yet the camera acted like she did at the oddest times.

Like the sister conversation. <_<

Yeah. Miranda was a love interest. She was also smart, practical, and not given to sexually manipulating other. I suspect some people in the art and cinematic department didn't get the second memo about her actual personality.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:07 .

[upsettingshorts]

BrotherWarth wrote...

It doesn't help that every time I tried to talk to him, even after I did his loyalty mission, his response was basically "I've got a lot of crap to do. Leave me alone."

I'd respond to this post, but I've really got to finish these calibrations. 

BrotherWarth wrote...

I see Garrus more as the Watson to Shepard's Sherlok.

Eh, Watson is curious and interested - but he doesn't want to emulate Sherlock Holmes.  Watson is Holmes' friend and partner, not his protege.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:06 .

[The Big Nothing]

BrotherWarth wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

The only ME2 characters that I felt had any depth were Jack, Grunt and Mordin. The rest were cardboard

Jacob had depth, he just wasn't "interesting" and I do not blame FemShep players for simply avoiding him entirely.  I would dispute that "comes off as a cool dude with a good head on his shoulders that I'd like to get a beer with and would definitely have my back, but is ambivalent about his role with Cerberus" isn't a deep character.

Samara, Thane, Legion (as representative of his race), Tali - etc - all of the non DLC ones were really well done.  Kasumi and Zaeed, for what they were, weren't bad either.  

BrotherWarth wrote...
IMO.

Ah, right.  Disregard the above heh.  Anyway...

The on-topic question is though what if anything their outfits either contributed to or detracted from their characters.

I don't get why anyone has a problem with Jacob; I loved his character. And his sidequest with the Gernsback and the Colonel Kurtz-esque father? Oh, man. Good stuff.

I felt he had no personality and actually thought his loyalty mission was the most boring.

I guess I just think about it more cinematically. If it were a movie, it would kick rump.  Like a good version of Rescue Dawn.

"A space freighter stranded on a foreign world where the only indigenous food causes neural decay. Once friends, the survivors begin fighting desperately over resources. It is decided that some must suffer to allow for enough time for the reparations on the distress beacon to be completed.
Years later, those who had eaten the poison fauna have devolved into primitive tribes that begin raiding the camp of the survivors, where one man, mad with power, has set himself up as King."

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:09 .

[nightcobra]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

It doesn't help that every time I tried to talk to him, even after I did his loyalty mission, his response was basically "I've got a lot of crap to do. Leave me alone."

I'd respond to this post, but I've really got to finish these calibrations. 

BrotherWarth wrote...

I see Garrus more as the Watson to Shepard's Sherlok.

Eh, Watson is curious and interested - but he doesn't want to emulate Sherlock Holmes.  Watson is Holmes' friend and partner, not his protege.

garrus felt to me like a cop buddie to shepard.

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I mean competent Robin, not comic relief Robin.

Richard Grayson, Jason Tod, Tim Drake, or Carrie Kelly?

[upsettingshorts]

As long as the topic doesn't stray too far from the implications of fixed outfits - of which the best recent example is Mass Effect 2 - I think the thread is safe.

If I wasn't going to bed, I'd bring up Samara and wonder if her characterization benefited or suffered from her outfit.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Richard Grayson, Jason Tod, Tim Drake, or Carrie Kelly?

I've only heard of any of them because I once played an online Batman-themed game of Mafia and was "Nightwing." But I know next to nothing about comics, I just wanted to make clear as best I could that I didn't mean Chris O'Donnell or Burt Ward.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:14 .

[The Big Nothing]

Ultimately, clothing is as much an expression of character as one's personality, and we have no more right to alter them than we do someone's personality.
Hawke is the only person over which we have any sway, so take solace in that, people. And love it.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:16 .

[Maria Caliban]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Damian.

Never read a story with him.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Richard Grayson, Jason Tod, Tim Drake, or Carrie Kelly?

I've only heard of any of them because I once played an online Batman-themed game of Mafia and was "Nightwing." But I know next to nothing about comics, I just wanted to make clear as best I could that I didn't mean Chris O'Donnell or Burt Ward.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 décembre 2010 - 10:19 .